New manager incoming ( merged )

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

As there was against Birkirkara.

 

My point being we can’t use one result in one game to say conclusively anything positive or negative about a manager, we have to review their career as a whole. Rodgers passes the test, Neilson certainly doesn’t.

 

So we sack Neilson and get in Brendan Rodgers? Glad you have cleared that up.

[BackOfTheNet]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So we sack Neilson and get in Brendan Rodgers? Glad you have cleared that up.

Genuinely not sure if you’re being serious. I like to think you’ve had somewhat of an education so I hope not.

 

Let me explain this in simple terms: Having a go at Neilson solely for the Brora game alone is not the right thing to do. Defending Neilson saying it was only one game is also not the right thing to do.

 

My point is other managers have had shock results that are down in history as one of their club’s worst, but that didn’t define their management. Their overall performances as Manager did that. I used Rodgers as an example to illustrate this. And my conclusion is Neilson’s overall management performances since 2014 until now points to the fact that he’s a limited manager and not good enough to help Hearts progress.

 

If you genuinely thought I was saying we should get Rodgers in then I feel sorry for you.

[The Shed Floodlight]

52 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Thing is you have to give full context when it comes to results like Brora. For example, Brendan Rodgers’ Celtic lost 1-0 to Lincoln Red Imps in Europe. An outrageously bad result for them. But Rodgers’ Celtic also went on to win multiple titles and cups and have an invincible season. His record at Swansea, Liverpool and now Leicester has been very good too.

 

So judging Neilson on just one game against Brora is not right, as would be judging Rodgers for LRI. But we can judge Neilson on all of his time in management, like I mentioned with Rodgers above. And Neilson’s time - except for a small purple patch with different factors at play - has been at best average. Not a manager to take this team where it needs to go.

He is not being judged on just that game, it is the other horrendous results we have suffered under him...short memory if you have forgotten Alloa, for example.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Genuinely not sure if you’re being serious. I like to think you’ve had somewhat of an education so I hope not.

 

Let me explain this in simple terms: Having a go at Neilson solely for the Brora game alone is not the right thing to do. Defending Neilson saying it was only one game is also not the right thing to do.

 

My point is other managers have had shock results that are down in history as one of their club’s worst, but that didn’t define their management. Their overall performances as Manager did that. I used Rodgers as an example to illustrate this. And my conclusion is Neilson’s overall management performances since 2014 until now points to the fact that he’s a limited manager and not good enough to help Hearts progress.

 

If you genuinely thought I was saying we should get Rodgers in then I feel sorry for you.

 

I'm pointing out how ridiculous this thread is.

 

The comparisons with Brendan Rodgers are nonsense to start with.

 

If you replace Neilson you are faced with taking a punt on someone who is either a promising manager at a level below us or a talented manager on his way down after a few sackings from somewhere such as the English Championship/League 1.  Either way, its a punt that could go either way.

[BackOfTheNet]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm pointing out how ridiculous this thread is.

 

The comparisons with Brendan Rodgers are nonsense to start with.

 

If you replace Neilson you are faced with taking a punt on someone who is either a promising manager at a level below us or a talented manager on his way down after a few sackings from somewhere such as the English Championship/League 1.  Either way, its a punt that could go either way.

But we have full knowledge of Neilson’s limitations. Anyone can see he can’t take us where we need to be. He barely took us to a Championship title this time around. So what’s the point in continuing with him? There’s countless managers who have proven records in Scotland and elsewhere who I imagine would like a crack at the job. This isn’t a case of “let’s see how he does” if he doesn’t do well then we knew it all along and done nothing about it. Which is illogical. If he does well I’ll be the first to eat my words.

[BackOfTheNet]

8 minutes ago, The Shed Floodlight said:

He is not being judged on just that game, it is the other horrendous results we have suffered under him...short memory if you have forgotten Alloa, for example.

That’s literally the entire point of my post

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

But we have full knowledge of Neilson’s limitations. Anyone can see he can’t take us where we need to be. He barely took us to a Championship title this time around. So what’s the point in continuing with him? There’s countless managers who have proven records in Scotland and elsewhere who I imagine would like a crack at the job. This isn’t a case of “let’s see how he does” if he doesn’t do well then we knew it all along and done nothing about it. Which is illogical. If he does well I’ll be the first to eat my words.

 

That really isn't true is it?

 

Who is going to come here with a better record in Scotland or England and fight for 3rd/4th place at best and a run in the cups with a club that likely has a smaller budget than they were used to?

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That really isn't true is it?

 

Who is going to come here with a better record in Scotland or England and fight for 3rd/4th place at best and a run in the cups with a club that likely has a smaller budget than they were used to?

Well without saying I’d want him, Derek McInnes could do all the above and he’d have a bigger budget than he was used to. That’s just off the top of my head after reading your post, so there will be others.

[David Black]

RN is going nowhere and that is down to the total lack of ambition by Budge, hence his appointment in the first place, he was the cheap option. Until we are rid of Budge this is where we will continue to be. Sad, but true. Seven years after she said she didn't know how to run a football club, she still doesn't, the problem now is that she thinks she does.

[Des Lynam]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That really isn't true is it?

 

Who is going to come here with a better record in Scotland or England and fight for 3rd/4th place at best and a run in the cups with a club that likely has a smaller budget than they were used to?

That is so depressing to read. We are a great club Frank. 
 

Every club will have a smaller budget than they were used to. 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

🤣

 

In your rush to be contrary you didn't think that through. 

 

 

Are you saying he did have the fans' backing?

[Sertse]

Just now, David Black said:

RN is going nowhere and that is down to the total lack of ambition by Budge, hence his appointment in the first place, he was the cheap option. Until we are rid of Budge this is where we will continue to be. Sad, but true. Seven years after she said she didn't know how to run a football club, she still doesn't, the problem now is that she thinks she does.

I wouldn't say he was the cheap option but he was definitely the easy option. It genuinely sounded like he might be away at the end of the season before and now it sounds as if he's guaranteed to be staying.

 

[Walter Payton]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

 

Great post.

 

I wasn't excited by the board's choice of manager when Neilson replaced Stendel, but I was certainly prepared to back him and give him time. 

 

I'm approaching 40 now, and it seems the managerial roundabout over my lifetime has got faster and faster. In line with players salaries, managers salaries have grown astronomically in that period and therefore the compensation payouts when a manager is sacked after a short stay have grown as well. I shudder to think how much in total we must have spent on paying up our collective managers' salaries since the beginning of the Romanov era. 

 

I'm actually keen for Hearts to be seen by managers as a club that they'll be given proper time to put their stamp on the place, and know that they'll be given time to adjust strategy when results go on a downward swing. If a manager's deciding between two clubs of similar size, similar budgets and similar ambitions, I think knowing he'll be given more time at Hearts would help make his choice to join us easier. As a result, Hearts developing this sort of reputation would hopefully mean us being to attract better managers than we would otherwise. I do not think Neilson matches up with this "better manager" category, I think we can aim higher. 

 

Fans are more fickle these days; this strategy does mean the support will need to be more patient during some down swings and to some extent the board will need to block out the noise from the more impatient supporters. 

 

If we are going to follow this more patient strategy of giving managers at least 4 transfer windows (which is only 2-3 years) even if results aren't on track though, there HAS to be clearly identified contractual break points where we're prepared to say enough is enough. Our target for the league, given our budget, should be top 4 in the top flight and decent cup runs. If a manager comes in during the summer, I don't want him sacked for finish 5th-7th in his 1st season (disappointing though it would be) because there may be legacies from the old manager that he's got to overcome first. Even if that's the case 2 seasons on the trot, there (IMO) may be a case for listening to his defence and giving him time if there's credible evidence and reason to believe underlying issues have been resolved and we're in a strong position ahead of the 3rd season. 

 

The pre-identified break points though should absolutely include seasons finishing lower than 9th, or seasons where we're knocked out both cups by lower division teams. That happening once should count as a strike against the manager; happening multiple times times indicates that lessons aren't being learned and we're settling for that underperformance being acceptable.

 

I'd be glad to see another manager come in now, with time to assess the squad and make changes ahead of the new season. If that doesn't happen, Robbie has to understand he's got 1 season to get it right. 

 

 

[JamboAl]

45 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Aye I can see Bob at Man Utd in 2 yrs .

I don't think I even remotely suggested that - or indeed anywhere else!

[Agentjambo]

3 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

Limited ability as a footballer.

Limited ability as a manager.

[sadj]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

He was not a popular appointment to begin with. Reflects the ambition of the club. 

Thats not accurate. Is RN is the man to take us to where the club want/expect to be is a more fair question. The ambition of the club is the same as ours for us. (From the main horses mouth and a few more horses moutheseseses mouths too) 

 

He def wasnt popular amongst an element if the support , a would suggest a large percentage were of the opinion “oh RN again , got my doubts but we know he knows the Championship , lets see what happens” 
 

My opinion was “oh RN hopefully we get better football but its taken away any worry that we wont do as required and go back up as its a safe pair of hands”

[Sherbet]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

You may as well answer on his behalf because he is slippier than a Tory MP.

Dont you mean one of queen Nicola's brigade

[Jamhammer]

1 hour ago, Walter Payton said:

 

Great post.

 

I wasn't excited by the board's choice of manager when Neilson replaced Stendel, but I was certainly prepared to back him and give him time. 

 

I'm approaching 40 now, and it seems the managerial roundabout over my lifetime has got faster and faster. In line with players salaries, managers salaries have grown astronomically in that period and therefore the compensation payouts when a manager is sacked after a short stay have grown as well. I shudder to think how much in total we must have spent on paying up our collective managers' salaries since the beginning of the Romanov era. 

 

I'm actually keen for Hearts to be seen by managers as a club that they'll be given proper time to put their stamp on the place, and know that they'll be given time to adjust strategy when results go on a downward swing. If a manager's deciding between two clubs of similar size, similar budgets and similar ambitions, I think knowing he'll be given more time at Hearts would help make his choice to join us easier. As a result, Hearts developing this sort of reputation would hopefully mean us being to attract better managers than we would otherwise. I do not think Neilson matches up with this "better manager" category, I think we can aim higher. 

 

Fans are more fickle these days; this strategy does mean the support will need to be more patient during some down swings and to some extent the board will need to block out the noise from the more impatient supporters. 

 

If we are going to follow this more patient strategy of giving managers at least 4 transfer windows (which is only 2-3 years) even if results aren't on track though, there HAS to be clearly identified contractual break points where we're prepared to say enough is enough. Our target for the league, given our budget, should be top 4 in the top flight and decent cup runs. If a manager comes in during the summer, I don't want him sacked for finish 5th-7th in his 1st season (disappointing though it would be) because there may be legacies from the old manager that he's got to overcome first. Even if that's the case 2 seasons on the trot, there (IMO) may be a case for listening to his defence and giving him time if there's credible evidence and reason to believe underlying issues have been resolved and we're in a strong position ahead of the 3rd season. 

 

The pre-identified break points though should absolutely include seasons finishing lower than 9th, or seasons where we're knocked out both cups by lower division teams. That happening once should count as a strike against the manager; happening multiple times times indicates that lessons aren't being learned and we're settling for that underperformance being acceptable.

 

I'd be glad to see another manager come in now, with time to assess the squad and make changes ahead of the new season. If that doesn't happen, Robbie has to understand he's got 1 season to get it right. 

 

 

Personally I would just like to see some evidence that we are moving in the right direction.

Results aren’t the be all and end all for me Id like to see some sort of progress.

Players improving. Fitter. More committed. The odd youngster getting game time and coming from games and saying, “He’s really starting to come on”.

Also, rather than simply saying, “It’s really hard playing against teams who sit in/get in our faces” I’d like the manager to come up with some tactics to combat it. That’s his job.

[martoon]

"But, who do you replace him with?"

 

"But, what if a new guy fails, too?"

 

Two of the laziest, most feeble retorts there are on here to removing Neilson. The usual suspects fell back on them defending Levein to the bitter end and they're doing it again now.

 

Levein and Neilson's firefighters also like to back them by criticising, often aggressively, those who don't and heavily imply within these posts that they do, indeed, back them.

 

However, as they don't explicitly use the words "I back Levein/Neilson/ budge" always deny that they ever have.

 

"Show me specifically where I said that" is the usual response.

 

Trolling, attention seeking, wilfully contrary...I really don't know why they do it but it's funny that they never get it right.

Edited April 29, 2021 by martoon

[Broxburn Jambo]

Only one person will make the decision if Robbie Neilson goes!

 

That is 

 

ROBBIE NEILSON

 

And anyone who thinks that there is another Manager with a decent track record is sitting in the wings thinking

'' I hope Robbie decides to leave or be sacked'' is naive in the extreme.

[3fingersreid]

4 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

I know it wasn't me you asked so apologies if I'm treading on any toes here but RN has been head coach at Hearts in 3 different seasons, he's won the league we were in twice and left part way through the 3rd with us in 2nd spot.

Now I'm maybe the most optimistic person on the planet but surely there's something in that that can give us hope that he might succeed. 🤔

No need to apologise , his first time here , if there wasn’t a Hearts fan enjoying the way we played I’d be wondering why ? 
My problem with him just now is he doesn’t seem able to motivate the players . His first spell here he was in a fortunate position of having young hungry players who had grown up the year before . Yes he got rid off a few of the experienced players, one or two we might’ve wanted to keep , but he brought in players at least as good if not better. 
Since he left his signings at the other two clubs he coached/managed haven’t been inspiring .

So for me his lack of motivation , his questionable signings along with his poor cup record , our most likely source of success , means I’d prefer change at the top of the coaching management.

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Only one person will make the decision if Robbie Neilson goes!

 

That is 

 

ROBBIE NEILSON

 

And anyone who thinks that there is another Manager with a decent track record is sitting in the wings thinking

'' I hope Robbie decides to leave or be sacked'' is naive in the extreme.

What do you mean by the last paragraph. Do you mean nobody worth having would want the Hearts job? 

Edited April 29, 2021 by GinRummy

[DH1986]

10 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Only one person will make the decision if Robbie Neilson goes!

 

That is 

 

ROBBIE NEILSON

 

And anyone who thinks that there is another Manager with a decent track record is sitting in the wings thinking

'' I hope Robbie decides to leave or be sacked'' is naive in the extreme.

😂

 

Slaver.

[Broxburn Jambo]

4 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

😂

 

Slaver.

Well chosen rebutt to my points.......

[DH1986]

7 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Well chosen rebutt to my points.......

I know.

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Well chosen rebutt to my points.......

Did your points really merit rebuttal? What were they exactly? That nobody at the club can get rid of Neilson except RN himself? That we couldn’t hope for a better manager with a decent track record? 

[sadj]

33 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Only one person will make the decision if Robbie Neilson goes!

 

That is 

 

ROBBIE NEILSON

 

And anyone who thinks that there is another Manager with a decent track record is sitting in the wings thinking

'' I hope Robbie decides to leave or be sacked'' is naive in the extreme.

Kin’Ell 🤣🤣 

 

You honestly think if he left nobody would want the job and as for your first bit 🤪

[Agentjambo]

Only two sleeps to go.....cannot wait😬

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Only two sleeps to go.....cannot wait😬

Until you what? Combust? 🙃

[Agentjambo]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

Until you what? Combust? 🙃

Robbie gets sacked and new managers name is the title of this thread....that’s what!😬

[graygo]

45 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

No need to apologise , his first time here , if there wasn’t a Hearts fan enjoying the way we played I’d be wondering why ? 
My problem with him just now is he doesn’t seem able to motivate the players . His first spell here he was in a fortunate position of having young hungry players who had grown up the year before . Yes he got rid off a few of the experienced players, one or two we might’ve wanted to keep , but he brought in players at least as good if not better. 
Since he left his signings at the other two clubs he coached/managed haven’t been inspiring .

So for me his lack of motivation , his questionable signings along with his poor cup record , our most likely source of success , means I’d prefer change at the top of the coaching management.

 

Nice to get a reply that wasn't abusive simply for trying to be positive, thanks for that.

I've said it a few times now that I really don't care if he stays or goes but I reckon he's staying and I don't fancy a season watching Hearts and not getting fully behind everyone at the club, I'd rather pack it in than go into the first game of the season desperate for a reason to call for his head, he's got a chance but something needs to change and quickly or I'll be looking out my pitchfork and joining in.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Robbie gets sacked and new managers name is the title of this thread....that’s what!😬

A bit early there as the OP said next week. 😄

[OTT]

8 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Robbie gets sacked and new managers name is the title of this thread....that’s what!😬

 

The way he's been talking in the press, he sounds like someone better tell him...  

[The Natural Order]

Wait.... What? Folk think Neilson's getting the sack?

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, The Natural Order said:

Wait.... What? Folk think Neilson's getting the sack?

 

Budges last act will be to give him a 5 year deal  

[GinRummy]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Budges last act will be to give him a 5 year deal  

Could mean another 5 year plan 😏

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

The way he's been talking in the press, he sounds like someone better tell him...  

Just thinking about what he’s doing with his big payoff…maybe. 😜

[Des Lynam]

25 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Only two sleeps to go.....cannot wait😬

Another poll? 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Could mean another 5 year plan 😏

Can you do me a favour and post me a link to the previous (on the field) 5 year plan.

I cannot seem to locate it.

[jr ewing]

4 hours ago, sadj said:

Thats not accurate. Is RN is the man to take us to where the club want/expect to be is a more fair question. The ambition of the club is the same as ours for us. (From the main horses mouth and a few more horses moutheseseses mouths too) 

 

He def wasnt popular amongst an element if the support , a would suggest a large percentage were of the opinion “oh RN again , got my doubts but we know he knows the Championship , lets see what happens” 
 

My opinion was “oh RN hopefully we get better football but its taken away any worry that we wont do as required and go back up as its a safe pair of hands”

Best left there. 

[Des Lynam]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Can you do me a favour and post me a link to the previous (on the field) 5 year plan.

I cannot seem to locate it.

Have you tried google? 

[JamboAl]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

Have you tried google? 

I didn't ask you but google didn't help which is why I asked a favour.

 

Perhaps you can help.

 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Best left there. 

No have your say. All i said is on point in terms of clubs ambition and my opinion and thats a fair rep of most fans opinions when he came back

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

No have your say. All i said is on point in terms of clubs ambition and my opinion and thats a fair rep of most fans opinions when he came back

Most fans were of the opinion meh signing. 

[Agentjambo]

10 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Another poll? 

Maybe....thanks for the great idea 💡 

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Can you do me a favour and post me a link to the previous (on the field) 5 year plan.

I cannot seem to locate it.

Why not just post what you mean. Rather than asking daft questions to beat about the bush. 

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Why not just post what you mean. Rather than asking daft questions to beat about the bush. 

Ah, so you can't post a link to the 5 year (ON FIELD) plan.  Does it exist.?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Ah, so you can't post a link to the 5 year (ON FIELD) plan.  Does it exist.?

I don’t know if it exists. My post was fairly obviously in humour. But your right, I can’t post a link to it, either because it didn’t exist or because I didn’t look for a link and probably never will.  

Edited April 29, 2021 by GinRummy

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t know if it exists. My post was fairly obviously in humour. But your right, I can’t post a link to it, either because it didn’t exist or because I didn’t look for a link and probably never will.  

My apologies.  I failed to realise it was in fun.

Edited April 29, 2021 by JamboAl

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

My apologies.  I failed to realise it was in fun.

All goo mate. 👍