New manager incoming ( merged )

[JamboAl]

13 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Why did they rebel? 

Why they rebelled is old hat and has little to do now with a new manager (supposedly) coming in.

Just as an aside however there must have been about 70 players on our books at the time which suggests the other 67 did not consider there were sufficient grounds to publicly rebel.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

It’s definitely an excuse. 
 

The starting line up was Stewart, Haring, Berra, Halkett, White, McEneff, Irving, Kastaneer, Mackay-Steven, Gnanduillet and Walker. 
 

Bench: Bobby, Souttar, Boyce, Frear, Popescu, Henderson and McGill. 
 

 

 

I have highlighted all of those reserve/acadamy players that started the game. So many!

[Des Lynam]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Why they rebelled is old hat and has little to do now with a new manager (supposedly) coming in.

Just as an aside however there must have been about 70 players on our books at the time which suggests the other 67 did not consider there were sufficient grounds to publicly rebel.

What about Craig Gordon for manager? 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, jbee647 said:

Robbie Neilson would win the SPFL with an old firm team, 

Not a hope. If he managed Rangers then Celtic would stroll it, if he managed Celtic then Rangers win it easily.

 

 

[JamboAl]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

What about Craig Gordon for manager? 

We can worry about that if/when it happens.

[siegementality]

13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Which academy/reserve players started that game?

Good question.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

It’s definitely an excuse. 
 

The starting line up was Stewart, Haring, Berra, Halkett, White, McEneff, Irving, Kastaneer, Mackay-Steven, Gnanduillet and Walker. 
 

Bench: Bobby, Souttar, Boyce, Frear, Popescu, Henderson and McGill. 
 

 

 

More than half that starting line up is second string.  Haring was far from match fit at that point.

 

That isn't the side we were playing in recent matches, and that team didn't seem to know how to play together.  Haring I excuse as being well short of match fitness.  McEneff, Gnando and GMS were new to the team too, all adding up to a shambles with the Berra-Halkett centre-half pairing that gives me the fear.

 

That result is done, and only Robbie knows what went so wrong, but its clear our squad is nowhere near good enough with a few injuries, suspensions, or players out through international call ups.  Kastaneer is one of the worst outfield players I've seen play for us, and I saw Mo Berthe at Dens.

[siegementality]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

We will find out next season. 👍

 

 

There were some definite major improvements - Gordon, Kingsley, Ginelly.  Kastaneer was a desparate signing to cover Ginelly.  Gnando might be a good signing - time will tell.

 

Frear, Popescu not good enough.   Roberts seems to have succeeded at Motherwell.

 

Halliday - not better/not worse.

 

 

You said we have played only about 5 decent games, which I'm assuming you mean the 6-2s etc.

 

 

Not remotely comparable situation - the board are going to see that Neilson got us promoted so he stays at least until next season regardless.

 

 

Your choice.  Should he get emptied by say Christmas you might not be able to get into a game.

If Neilson gets until Christmas there will be plenty of empty seats.

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I have highlighted all of those reserve/acadamy players that started the game. So many!

 

Now you need to go back and re-read what I posted.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, siegementality said:

If Neilson gets until Christmas there will be plenty of empty seats.

 

Depends on the capacity the SG will allow in.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

If Neilson gets until Christmas there will be plenty of empty seats.

Maybe it's a ploy to guarantee social distancing.😀

[siegementality]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

More than half that starting line up is second string.  Haring was far from match fit at that point.

 

That isn't the side we were playing in recent matches, and that team didn't seem to know how to play together.  Haring I excuse as being well short of match fitness.  McEneff, Gnando and GMS were new to the team too, all adding up to a shambles with the Berra-Halkett centre-half pairing that gives me the fear.

 

That result is done, and only Robbie knows what went so wrong, but its clear our squad is nowhere near good enough with a few injuries, suspensions, or players out through international call ups.  Kastaneer is one of the worst outfield players I've seen play for us, and I saw Mo Berthe at Dens.

Why even attempt to defend the indefensible? That Hearts team were playing Highland League Brora Rangers, in the Scottish Cup!!

 

 

[HMFC 86]

10 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Not a hope. If he managed Rangers then Celtic would stroll it, if he managed Celtic then Rangers win it easily.

 

 

Agree. Cant believe anyone can be so deluded about Neilson’s abilities as a manager

[siegementality]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Maybe it's a ploy to guarantee social distancing.😀

Well it works for me as I’ll be 8 miles from anyone sitting in Tynecastle.

[siegementality]

Just now, HMFC 86 said:

Agree. Cant believe anyone can be so deluded about Neilson’s abilities as a manager

As I pointed out yesterday, Neilson has spent all but 18 months of his managerial career in the lower leagues in Scotland and England, but some think he could win the Scottish Premiership. The same guy that can’t beat Brora Rangers 😂😂😂😂😂

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, siegementality said:

Why even attempt to defend the indefensible? That Hearts team were playing Highland League Brora Rangers, in the Scottish Cup!!

 

 

 

I'm not defending it - I'm saying that our squad is simply not good enough.  A few injuries/suspensions/international call-ups and the quality plummets.

 

Losing Ginelly was a massive loss for example, and having to put Halliday in left back was a major downgrade when Kingsley got injured.

[sadj]

17 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Why they rebelled is old hat and has little to do now with a new manager (supposedly) coming in.

Just as an aside however there must have been about 70 players on our books at the time which suggests the other 67 did not consider there were sufficient grounds to publicly rebel.

Thats bollox i can tell you that for certain. Just they as senior players it was decided would speak out on behalf of all concerned players and staff

[siegementality]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Depends on the capacity the SG will allow in.

Mate, I really don’t want to fall out but I couldn’t give a monkeys about going to Tynecastle to watch a Neilson team. I’ve reached my tipping point.

[siegementality]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm not defending it - I'm saying that our squad is simply not good enough.  A few injuries/suspensions/international call-ups and the quality plummets.

 

Losing Ginelly was a massive loss for example, and having to put Halliday in left back was a major downgrade when Kingsley got injured.

There was enough in that Hearts team to put away a Brora Rangers team who hadn’t played for months. Stranraer beat them 3-1 in the next round FFS!

[maidstonejambo]

15 minutes ago, siegementality said:

If Neilson gets until Christmas there will be plenty of empty seats.

 

Do you believe that'll be the case if he's got us winning and playing well? You think people will stay away?

[Des Lynam]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm not defending it - I'm saying that our squad is simply not good enough.  A few injuries/suspensions/international call-ups and the quality plummets.

 

Losing Ginelly was a massive loss for example, and having to put Halliday in left back was a major downgrade when Kingsley got injured.

I’m not excusing it but we had a second string side out. 
 

I’m not defending it but our players are not good enough. 
 

It’s an awful spin on things. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Can't we just have manager on a weekly rolling contract. That way, if we lose, we can just get whoever the flavour of the week manager is in to replace them, and we can then start process again at next match. 

Would save those that are never happy from moaning. 

 

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Can't we just have manager on a weekly rolling contract. That way, if we lose, we can just get whoever the flavour of the week manager is in to replace them, and we can then start process again at next match. 

Would save those that are never happy from moaning. 

 

great idea!

 

and a poll a couple of days after the sacking to agree the next man in

 

🤣

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

great idea!

 

and a poll a couple of days after the sacking to agree the next man in

 

🤣

I don't see why we should have to wait two days for a poll.

[3fingersreid]

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

[siegementality]

41 minutes ago, maidstonejambo said:

 

Do you believe that'll be the case if he's got us winning and playing well? You think people will stay away?

I think from my posts - and the one you quoted in particular - that it’s fairly obvious I do not think he will have us winning and playing well.

 

If you look at the facts, barring his first season the first time around he hasn’t had us playing particularly well, despite winning. That is the reason people wanted shot of him the first time around. He then jumps ship to MK Dons. Signs the likes of Peter Pawlett and Robbie Muirhead and has them in the bottom five of the league when he left. MK Dons fans were delighted to see the back of him.

 

Fast forward to Dundee United and he has them playing the same shite football as is his MO. He gets them promoted, and signs Lawrence Shankland. Despite that the DU fans are glad to see the back of him.

 

He gives up the chance to go to the Premiership with DU, in favour of returning to Hearts. He’s comfortable in the lower leagues, there is more margin for error.

 

He continues is history of being shite in cups (he was handed a semi final place, and in fairness we played well in a lot of the game against Celtic) by being seen off by Brora Rangers and Alloa.

 

He has continued to make poor signings, even to the point of making a poor signing to replace another poor signing.

 

The chances of Neilson having Hearts “playing well” consistently are - in my opinion - not very good.  Neilson is what he is, a lower league manager. He’ll shit the bed against teams, over think games, apply poor tactics and make excuses to explain away his own failings.

 

We’ve seen it all before.

Edited April 29, 2021 by siegementality

[siegementality]

3 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

We have a winner!! I really wish I had said that.

[siegementality]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Are you suggesting supporters aren’t fickle ? 
 

His history suggests he’s done well in the top league so it looks like he’s getting a chance whether we like it or not. I’d suggest that chance won’t be for very long if we don’t start strong. 
 

We’ve have plenty shite football but we’ve also had shite the results when the football hasn’t been. Overall I’d say the football has been more boring than shite but that’s pretty incidental now. 
 

Things need to improve all over the club no doubt but we go into the season better equipped off the park than we did this season. We’ll find out soon enough how that all comes together. 
 

I think some people are very dramatic, jumping over every article dissecting every word getting all offended over trivial quotes or statements that every other manager will make from time to time. 
 

it’s okay to disagree. 👍

This supporter isn’t fickle.

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

[Colonel Kurtz]

An option when you have a management team and a playing squad not working and all involved on contracts which would be expensive to buy out, is to reorganise within the existing budget.

This could involve a management role for senior player/players who have the skillsets which the current manager is lacking whilst still harnessing the positives he has .

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

14 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

Agreed but he was appointed because Budge has no clue what she's doing and was panicked into getting a replacement quickly after Stendel.  She paid compensation to get a guy who was spending 130% of turnover on player wages at the Arabs - some success.  The lack of ambition/vision at the club after 7 years is staggering and the thought of two more years of the mumbling bumbling idiot that is Neilson is utterly depressing. 

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

He did. They started to turn when he hadn’t won anything for 4 years. 

[suds66]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Callum Davidson for me. He's clearly going places. 

 

Alex Neil, meh no thanks. His reputation is an actual myth with nothing to back it up. Clearly failed at his last two jobs. 

Agree, Davidson would be my choice.

Heard nothing but positive feedback about his management and coaching methods.

[NANOJAMBO]

18 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

🤣

 

In your rush to be contrary you didn't think that through. 

 

 

[3fingersreid]

18 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

Prior to his spell at Man Utd SAF had proven himself to be a winner both in Scotland and in Europe . 
I get it you back RN and I admire your stance in the face of an overwhelming opposite view , but to put those two in the same sentence , I’m not so sure it’s a comparable example .

 

Can I ask what makes you believe that RN can and indeed will succeed in taking Hearts forward ? 

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Prior to his spell at Man Utd SAF had proven himself to be a winner both in Scotland and in Europe . 
I get it you back RN and I admire your stance in the face of an overwhelming opposite view , but to put those two in the same sentence , I’m not so sure it’s a comparable example .

 

Can I ask what makes you believe that RN can and indeed will succeed in taking Hearts forward ? 

Where did you get the impression I back RN?  I merely pointed out to you that SAF did not have the fans' backing to succeed - he started to succeed and then got the backing.  In fact the support would have gladly got rid of him early doors and later events show that would have been one of the biggest mistakes in football history.

My view on the subject is that RN as manager is where were at and I do not see the point in changing unless we can be reasonably sure we have someone better to take his place.   We can of course never be 100% sure of that.

[Mars plastic]

43 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

Unfortunately, we’ve got the Ferguslie Park Fergie. 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

I’m not excusing it but we had a second string side out. 
 

I’m not defending it but our players are not good enough. 
 

It’s an awful spin on things. 

 

That is done and there is nothing we can do about it, and Neilson isn't going either because he got promotion so its going to be a long hard summer for some on here maintaining their campaign to sack him.

 

 

[3fingersreid]

28 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Where did you get the impression I back RN?  I merely pointed out to you that SAF did not have the fans' backing to succeed - he started to succeed and then got the backing.  In fact the support would have gladly got rid of him early doors and later events show that would have been one of the biggest mistakes in football history.

My view on the subject is that RN as manager is where were at and I do not see the point in changing unless we can be reasonably sure we have someone better to take his place.   We can of course never be 100% sure of that.

I just skip through various threads and the impression I get is you do back RN , apologies if that’s not the case . 
 

I’ll need to sit on the fence regarding SAF as another poster has contradicted your thoughts on his support . 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

I just skip through various threads and the impression I get is you do back RN , apologies if that’s not the case . 
 

I’ll need to sit on the fence regarding SAF as another poster has contradicted your thoughts on his support . 

What specifically gave you that impression?

[Des Lynam]

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

He was not a popular appointment to begin with. Reflects the ambition of the club. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

For a manager to succeed at a club he needs the majority of the fans backing him . I’d guess when RN was appointed he had that majority?

 

Unfortunately the team’s performances , his signings ( not them all but a good proportion of them) were very poor but the backing of the majority of the support was lost ,maybe not after the Alloa cup defeat but certainly after the Brora cup defeat .

 

When he left MK Dons the fans weren’t bothered, when he left dundee hibs they weren’t bothered , in fact they were relieved, that tells me something about his style of management and/or team performances.

 

Like players if you can sign one that improves your team you sign him  , surely if you can get a better manager/coach you do that too? 
There’s surely better to be had out there to take us forward ?

 

 

Superb post!

[martoon]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What specifically gave you that impression?

 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

Prior to his spell at Man Utd SAF had proven himself to be a winner both in Scotland and in Europe . 
I get it you back RN and I admire your stance in the face of an overwhelming opposite view , but to put those two in the same sentence , I’m not so sure it’s a comparable example .

 

Can I ask what makes you believe that RN can and indeed will succeed in taking Hearts forward ? 

 

I know it wasn't me you asked so apologies if I'm treading on any toes here but RN has been head coach at Hearts in 3 different seasons, he's won the league we were in twice and left part way through the 3rd with us in 2nd spot.

Now I'm maybe the most optimistic person on the planet but surely there's something in that that can give us hope that he might succeed. 🤔

[BackOfTheNet]

2 hours ago, siegementality said:

As I pointed out yesterday, Neilson has spent all but 18 months of his managerial career in the lower leagues in Scotland and England, but some think he could win the Scottish Premiership. The same guy that can’t beat Brora Rangers 😂😂😂😂😂

Thing is you have to give full context when it comes to results like Brora. For example, Brendan Rodgers’ Celtic lost 1-0 to Lincoln Red Imps in Europe. An outrageously bad result for them. But Rodgers’ Celtic also went on to win multiple titles and cups and have an invincible season. His record at Swansea, Liverpool and now Leicester has been very good too.

 

So judging Neilson on just one game against Brora is not right, as would be judging Rodgers for LRI. But we can judge Neilson on all of his time in management, like I mentioned with Rodgers above. And Neilson’s time - except for a small purple patch with different factors at play - has been at best average. Not a manager to take this team where it needs to go.

Edited April 29, 2021 by BackOfTheNet

[Nookie Bear]

6 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

I know it wasn't me you asked so apologies if I'm treading on any toes here but RN has been head coach at Hearts in 3 different seasons, he's won the league we were in twice and left part way through the 3rd with us in 2nd spot.

Now I'm maybe the most optimistic person on the planet but surely there's something in that that can give us hope that he might succeed. 🤔

 

You may as well answer on his behalf because he is slippier than a Tory MP.

[Boris]

21 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Thing is you have to give full context when it comes to results like Brora. For example, Brendan Rodgers’ Celtic lost 1-0 to Lincoln Red Imps in Europe. An outrageously bad result for them. But Rodgers’ Celtic also went on to win multiple titles and cups and have an invincible season. His record at Swansea, Liverpool and now Leicester has been very good too.

 

So judging Neilson on just one game against Brora is not right, as would be judging Rodgers for LRI. But we can judge Neilson on all of his time in management, like I mentioned with Rodgers above. And Neilson’s time - except for a small purple patch with different factors at play - has been at best average. Not a manager to take this team where it needs to go.

Tbf, there was a return leg v Red Imps.

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

Tbf, there was a return leg v Red Imps.

As there was against Birkirkara.

 

My point being we can’t use one result in one game to say conclusively anything positive or negative about a manager, we have to review their career as a whole. Rodgers passes the test, Neilson certainly doesn’t.

[Jeffros Furios]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Fergie didn't have the backing when he first went to Man U.

In fact it was only when he started to succeed that he got the backing of the support.

What a mistake that could have been!

Aye I can see Bob at Man Utd in 2 yrs .