Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[Kiwidoug]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Ginelly got injured but was our best attacking player by some distance.  Buying that type of quality is normally outside our budget.

 

Answer honestly - do you think Roberts is better than a fit Ginelly?

I'm pinning 99% of my hopes on Ginnelly.

 

No pressure.

[frankblack]

28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Longer than that. 

We don't get the value for our pound notes that other clubs with less resource do. 

Our 'scouting' network seems to specialise in unearthing duds from far and wide and then the management hand them 3 and 4 year deals. 

Is Savage any better? 

Is finding 'talent' to fit Bob's turgid football an impossible task? 

Who knows. 

I suspect next year like this year and last year, we'll be made to look very ordinary by teams stuffed full of players that we all think are not Hearts quality.  

 

Our scouting network was binned by Romanov and we haven't managed to replace it post Administration.

Edited May 9, 2021 by frankblack

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

I'm pinning 99% of my hopes on Ginnelly.

 

No pressure.

 

How is that relevant to my comments?

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ginelly got injured but was our best attacking player by some distance.  Buying that type of quality is normally outside our budget.

 

Answer honestly - do you think Roberts is better than a fit Ginelly?

no of course not. I think Robbie Neilson is a poor coach. And Jason Robert’s improvement whenever he left is yet more evidence of that. 

[qferryjam]

53 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think he inherited a decent team that were well coached to begin with, but didn't give McCulloch the time.  Clark got the benefits, but you will find many examples of the same circumstances where it doesn't.

No he didn’t he inherited a squad at the bottom of the league and used what he had with a couple of additions in January 

never heard him saying we need this or that just managed , got the best out of them improving results and players along the way ,

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

What makes you think that even with another manager in place and a limited budget we would achieve much more than top six?  Our squad is nowhere near as good as you think it is.

 

This is spot on. 

 

There are a number of players in our squad who are nowhere near as good as a large number of our fans think they are. 

[siegementality]

6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This is spot on. 

 

There are a number of players in our squad who are nowhere near as good as a large number of our fans think they are. 

Go on, name them.

[Weakened Offender]

4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Go on, name them.

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

[Beni]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.

 

From the start of 2020 Stendel's final 13 games in charge:

5 wins 

5 draws 

3 losses.

 

Neilson's last 13 games in charge:

6 wins 

5 draws 

2 losses.  

 

Stendel was in the  Premiership, and beat Glasgow Rangers in the cup. 

 

Neilson was in the Championship, and lost to Brora Rangers in the cup.

 

So if we were 'absolutely stinking' at the end of last season...

 

 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

[frankblack]

19 minutes ago, qferryjam said:

No he didn’t he inherited a squad at the bottom of the league and used what he had with a couple of additions in January 

never heard him saying we need this or that just managed , got the best out of them improving results and players along the way ,

 

Its an academic argument as to whether the previous manager would have turned them around if he had been given the time.

 

Either way sometimes you get lucky and other times you get what we did with Stendel and continue into freefall.

[siegementality]

4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

So, if they are nowhere good enough then the rest are definitely not good enough then, yes?

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

Then while you are at it look at the backup for injuries and suspensions.  Take out say our top 3 players for a few months and will we cope?

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

I hope to **** Smith's no finished, we've just got rid of Logan! 😂

I still have faith in Halkett, new manager, better training regime etc. 

He'll no doubt go to Kilmarnock or something and be outstanding. 

[Weakened Offender]

1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So, if they are nowhere good enough then the rest are definitely not good enough then, yes?

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

[Weakened Offender]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

Haring is not that good. 

[hans]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

There isn't much point trying to argue with someone that will only see the negatives.

 

If you recruit as many players as we did then there will be some that don't work out.

frear was,nt good enough for him to sign at dundee united.

 

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

I’d probably add Kingsley to that. Defensively a bomb scare who has cost us goals since he came.

 

Irving. 2-3 games where he has had major influence. When he is off beat though he’s an empty jersey and he stops working. Too much of a mood player to be a first choice central midfield pick.

 

Walker and just about every other player on the fringe of starting 11. Not good enough often enough. 
 

Gnanduillet. Nowhere near physical enough to hold his own in the top league. I’m not even sure he’s that good a player.

 

 

 

 

[siegementality]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

So getting back to the original point, another manager couldn’t get a better tune out of our squad than Neilson can, because they are basically shite. This is despite the fact that Neilson signed several of those shite players and you only think one is any good (Kingsley) and to use a Neilson phrase, that good one is no Pele either. 

 

Given what I’ve seen and heard from Neilson I am more than happy to take my chances with another manager.

 

 

[Weakened Offender]

23 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So getting back to the original point, another manager couldn’t get a better tune out of our squad than Neilson can, because they are basically shite. This is despite the fact that Neilson signed several of those shite players and you only think one is any good (Kingsley) and to use a Neilson phrase, that good one is no Pele either. 

 

Given what I’ve seen and heard from Neilson I am more than happy to take my chances with another manager.

 

 

 

I think Neilson signed Craig Gordon too but I know a lot of supporters don't want to credit him with that despite the fact Gordon himself stated that his relationship with Robbie was a factor. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of matters. 

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

Souttar still has a lot to learn and nobody has ever put a bid in for him. We are taking a chance relying on his fitness to hold up as he’s never played a full season in his career. 
Looking good beside shite playing even worse shite does not a star make. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I think Neilson signed Craig Gordon too but I know a lot of supporters don't want to credit him with that despite the fact Gordon himself stated that his relationship with Robbie was a factor. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of matters. 

It’s been confirmed that he was coming back before RN was hired. 

[Weakened Offender]

29 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’d probably add Kingsley to that. Defensively a bomb scare who has cost us goals since he came.

 

Irving. 2-3 games where he has had major influence. When he is off beat though he’s an empty jersey and he stops working. Too much of a mood player to be a first choice central midfield pick.

 

Walker and just about every other player on the fringe of starting 11. Not good enough often enough. 
 

Gnanduillet. Nowhere near physical enough to hold his own in the top league. I’m not even sure he’s that good a player.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

[Weakened Offender]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s been confirmed that he was coming back before RN was hired. 

 

See. 

[kingantti1874]

43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Then while you are at it look at the backup for injuries and suspensions.  Take out say our top 3 players for a few months and will we cope?

If we had a good manager maybe

[kingantti1874]

39 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Haring is not that good. 

A fully fit Peter Haring absolutely is.  

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

See. 

Fair enough 😆 but it wasn’t his signing. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

We have to hope Savage can do exactly that, so the next manager can have a better chance than Stendel did. 
I agree though we don’t have as good a squad as some think. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[JimmyCant]

48 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

It’s all related as well, to who is coaching and managing and developing players. Even first team players need to be well coached, motivated and have their weaknesses improved. I don’t see much of that going on really. What players have improved this season ? Henderson I’d say. Boyce has had a very good season and looks more like the player we thought we were getting. Halliday improved a little over the course of the season.

 

I think a decent manager would look at our squad and maybe have to sign 4 players to make a really good first 11 with a half decent bench. The current manager will sign double that purely because he hasn’t got the best out of what he has. Players like Walker and Irving and a couple of others. Perfectly good players but playing at 65% for the most part.

 

So, not only are we a bit short of real quality in all departments, we’re really short on getting the best out of what we have.

Edited May 9, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Weakened Offender]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s all related as well, to who is coaching and managing and developing players. Even first team players need to be well coached, motivated and have their weaknesses improved. I don’t see much of that going on really. What players have improved this season ? Henderson I’d say. Boyce has had a very good season and looks more like the player we thought we were getting. Halliday improved a little over the course of the season.

 

I think a decent manager would look at our squad and maybe have to sign 4 players to make a really good first 11 with a half decent bench. The current manager will sign double that purely because he hasn’t got the best out of what he has. Players like Walker and Irving and a couple of others. Perfectly good players but playing at 65% for the most part.

 

Do you think another manager can get more out of Jamie Walker? 

[Jambo61]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

Yet another winger?

[frankblack]

44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

If we had a good manager maybe

 

Nonsense.  Any new manager will see the same as us that there is no strength and depth to our squad.

 

At the first opportunity, they are going to order another rebuild if they have unrealistic targets to hit.

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Do you think another manager can get more out of Jamie Walker? 

I’ve never been sure if Jamie needs his arse kicked or given an arm round his shoulder. Maybe he has issues that mean no coach could get a consistent tune out of him. His knee problems don’t help of course. And he’s had Naismith ahead of him in the picking order in his best position. But Jamie Walker on fire is one of the top 5 football players at the club.

Edited May 9, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Jambo61]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I’ve never been sure if Jamie needs his arse kicked or given an arm round his shoulder. Maybe he has issues that mean no coach could get a consistent tune out of him. His knee problems don’t help of course. But Jamie Walker on fire is one of the top 5 football players at the club.

We are that bad............feck!

[Pasquale for King]

Can’t see bob doing this. 

[Silvery_Moon]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

What makes you think that even with another manager in place and a limited budget we would achieve much more than top six?  Our squad is nowhere near as good as you think it is.

Our squad is crap. But Neilson is not the man to revamp it in my opinion. 

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

We are that bad............feck!

There’s been a few games this last season where Walker came on late and secured points. To the extent that folk were mystified as to why he wasn’t starting. Then of course when he DID eventually start he was largely anonymous. Overall I’d say he’s a good player performing mostly poorly if that makes sense.

Edited May 9, 2021 by JimmyCant

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, Silvery_Moon said:

Our squad is crap. But Neilson is not the man to revamp it in my opinion. 

 

He isn't going any time soon.

 

Time to focus positive energy on next season as there is no point bashing on here about it over the close season.

Edited May 9, 2021 by frankblack

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

He isn't going any time soon.

 

Time to focus positive energy on next season as there is no point bashing on here about it over the close season.

It's a bit difficult when it feels like last season with our fixtures completed and games going on elsewhere.

[Weakened Offender]

25 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’ve never been sure if Jamie needs his arse kicked or given an arm round his shoulder. Maybe he has issues that mean no coach could get a consistent tune out of him. His knee problems don’t help of course. And he’s had Naismith ahead of him in the picking order in his best position. But Jamie Walker on fire is one of the top 5 football players at the club.

 

Jamie Walker has played under half a dozen managers at Hearts and the manager who got the most out of him was Neilson, 6 years ago. 

 

The reason why Walker is a 65% player has nothing to do with his knee and everything to do with Jamie Walker. 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

He isn't going any time soon.

 

Time to focus positive energy on next season as there is no point bashing on here about it over the close season.

It’s really hard to be positive when we can anticipate what’s coming due to the evidence we’ve already seen. Unless we pull some unexpected box office out the bag in the summer and loads of other things just start clicking we’ve got a manager who won’t see Hallowe’en.

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Jamie Walker has played under half a dozen managers at Hearts and the manager who got the most out of him was Neilson, 6 years ago. 

 

The reason why Walker is a 65% player has nothing to do with his knee and everything to do with Jamie Walker. 

 

 

Not sure what Walkers issue is but of course you might be right. His body language has never been great that’s for sure. I agree Neilson got the best out of him. Which makes you think have we actually already had the best out of Neilson ?

[JimmyCant]

When Neilson was first in charge he had a decent team full of decent young players getting a regular game. Within 2 years and at the end of the Cathro reign, they were all gone. SOMEONE, be that Neilson, Levein or Cathro or a combination of all 3 made a decision that young boys couldn’t be played at a high level of football. What an utter disaster of a decision, one which Neilson clearly still believes in too

[sandylejambo]

Are we sure Neilson is not going soon? We are due to transfer shares to be fan owned, and the FOH can and must act in our interests, they have the power to get Neilson out even if the have to do an EGM and get it through on a share vote, but it is their job to represent us or they can GTF and we'll elect someone who will represents us.

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

When Neilson was first in charge he had a decent team full of decent young players getting a regular game. Within 2 years and at the end of the Cathro reign, they were all gone. SOMEONE, be that Neilson, Levein or Cathro or a combination of all 3 made a decision that young boys couldn’t be played at a high level of football. What an utter disaster of a decision, one which Neilson clearly still believes in too

Spot on.
Young players do crazy things like running out of position and not doing what they’re supposed to in the attempt to score goals and entertain. 

[1971fozzy]

I think it’s time to accept he is getting to manage the next season. I’m not a fan but am prepared to put my energy into backing him and see what happens. The Brora result was (for me) as much on the players as it was on RN. It’s happened so we need to move on as much as it was an embarrassment of epic proportions. 
He needs to sort out away form but in reality no manager in recent times has had good form in away games which is brutal for a club our size.  
he will get the first round of SPL fixtures IMHO and if he is top 6 after that then he will continue. There was no way he was getting punted after winning the league. It is what it is.

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

Are we sure Neilson is not going soon? We are due to transfer shares to be fan owned, and the FOH can and must act in our interests, they have the power to get Neilson out even if the have to do an EGM and get it through on a share vote, but it is their job to represent us or they can GTF and we'll elect someone who will represents us.

I think would need to grow a pair, they do what they’re told by the person who handpicked them and has loaned us £3.1m to make up for the disastrous mistakes she’s made. 

[1971fozzy]

17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

When Neilson was first in charge he had a decent team full of decent young players getting a regular game. Within 2 years and at the end of the Cathro reign, they were all gone. SOMEONE, be that Neilson, Levein or Cathro or a combination of all 3 made a decision that young boys couldn’t be played at a high level of football. What an utter disaster of a decision, one which Neilson clearly still believes in too

he should of used younger players I agree but his decision is vindicated as we are up. Rightly or wrongly there’s no argument as he got promotion. 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I still have faith in Halkett, new manager, better training regime etc. 

He'll no doubt go to Kilmarnock or something and be outstanding. 

Halkett has been the consistent element of our defence.

He was shite under Levein, shite under Stendel and now shite under Bob. 

Wherever he goes outstanding will not be used to describe him. 

[JamboGee92]

5 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I think it’s time to accept he is getting to manage the next season. I’m not a fan but am prepared to put my energy into backing him and see what happens. The Brora result was (for me) as much on the players as it was on RN. It’s happened so we need to move on as much as it was an embarrassment of epic proportions. 
He needs to sort out away form but in reality no manager in recent times has had good form in away games which is brutal for a club our size.  
he will get the first round of SPL fixtures IMHO and if he is top 6 after that then he will continue. There was no way he was getting punted after winning the league. It is what it is.

 

Yeah this is where I'm at.