Jump to content

Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )


best in the land

Recommended Posts

kingantti1874
Just now, frankblack said:

 

Sure, some of the 13 players signed should have been better, but that is what happens when you are trying to cover so many positions and don't have a chance to see them play as all leagues were shut down.


We had Elliott Frear on trial for several weeks 😂 you are reaching. It’s becuase he is clueless - no need to look much further 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 11.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Bazzas right boot

    652

  • Pasquale for King

    414

  • Bongo 1874

    393

  • GinRummy

    261

frankblack
1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I think you're just full of excuses mate, a bit like Neilson. 

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
Just now, frankblack said:

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.


did a good job with Jordan Robert’s though.  He did improve him - when he let him go and allowed him to be coached properly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
Just now, kingantti1874 said:


We had Elliott Frear on trial for several weeks 😂 you are reaching. It’s becuase he is clueless - no need to look much further 

 

There isn't much point trying to argue with someone that will only see the negatives.

 

If you recruit as many players as we did then there will be some that don't work out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the solution is to just throw more money at the playing squad.  
 

The incompetent folk running the club can’t compete with a club like livi when we spend about 5 times their budget, so the best option is to just throw even more money at the squad and hope that it makes up for how poor our management team is.

 

Maybe if we spend 5 times as much as hibs and aberdeen we might be able to compete with them again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

There isn't much point trying to argue with someone that will only see the negatives.

 

If you recruit as many players as we did then there will be some that don't work out.


i defended him for far longer than I should have. He’s not a bad guy but he’s a bad manager and a poor coach.  Signings aside I can genuinely say not one player has improved under his coaching, and for 80% of the season we looked apathetic at best.  At don’t get me started on the excuses.

After hearts it’s Falkirk, Ayr or Morton for Robbie if he’s lucky becuase that’s his level. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor
2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.

Which brings us in a roundabout way to the central argument.

The club has made appalling signing decisions for years. The fundamentals of the football department have been wrong for years. The academy is non existent in terms of developing talent. 

Change has been required for years but its a cosy world in Tynecastle towers with aunty Ann taking the easy or comfortable option time and again, such a rehashing Bob and his negative shite fest. 

In years to come we'll look back and think what a waste of resource.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last Laff
5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.

StJohnstone was exactly the same, they had Wright walk out and on the decline.  They brought in what looks like a top head coach now with Stevie Maclean as his assistant ffs 🤣.  Nowhere near a settled squad he’s just not been a shit bag, played young players and coached them well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:


did a good job with Jordan Robert’s though.  He did improve him - when he let him go and allowed him to be coached properly. 

 

Did a good job with Ginelly, Kingsley, and possibly GMS and Gnando from memory.  Halliday gets pass marks.  Kastaneer was a last minute desperation signing and clearly a dud, and Popescu, Frear, and Roberts didn't work out.

 

Would you say Roberts was better than Ginelly or GMS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Which brings us in a roundabout way to the central argument.

The club has made appalling signing decisions for years. The fundamentals of the football department have been wrong for years. The academy is non existent in terms of developing talent. 

Change has been required for years but its a cosy world in Tynecastle towers with aunty Ann taking the easy or comfortable option time and again, such a rehashing Bob and his negative shite fest. 

In years to come we'll look back and think what a waste of resource.  

 

I'm with you on this - that has been our problem.  Every season we have had to rebuild for the past 4 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

siegementality
36 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

What makes you think that even with another manager in place and a limited budget we would achieve much more than top six?  Our squad is nowhere near as good as you think it is.

All the more reason to bring in someone who can get the most out of our “nowhere near as good as you think it is” squad. Much better to have that than a manager who has significantly contributed to making that squad “nowhere near as good as you think it is” by signing a fair few of them, and poorly managing the rest. 

 

It would also make sense to employ a manager whose ambition matches a club of our stature, rather than his own very limited ability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Did a good job with Ginelly, Kingsley, and possibly GMS and Gnando from memory.  Halliday gets pass marks.  Kastaneer was a last minute desperation signing and clearly a dud, and Popescu, Frear, and Roberts didn't work out.

 

Would you say Roberts was better than Ginelly or GMS?


😂 actually Ginelly was good from the start and played how many games , Kingsleys regression was clear. Halliday was pish for most of the season.. GMS was terrible for 15 games out of 17 games. 
 

Robert’s clearly improved when he left 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Which brings us in a roundabout way to the central argument.

The club has made appalling signing decisions for years. The fundamentals of the football department have been wrong for years. The academy is non existent in terms of developing talent. 

Change has been required for years but its a cosy world in Tynecastle towers with aunty Ann taking the easy or comfortable option time and again, such a rehashing Bob and his negative shite fest. 

In years to come we'll look back and think what a waste of resource.  


Agree. - we have made appealing decisions for years . Yet despite the clear evidence to the contrary Robbie is a good decision ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm with you on this - that has been our problem.  Every season we have had to rebuild for the past 4 years.

Longer than that. 

We don't get the value for our pound notes that other clubs with less resource do. 

Our 'scouting' network seems to specialise in unearthing duds from far and wide and then the management hand them 3 and 4 year deals. 

Is Savage any better? 

Is finding 'talent' to fit Bob's turgid football an impossible task? 

Who knows. 

I suspect next year like this year and last year, we'll be made to look very ordinary by teams stuffed full of players that we all think are not Hearts quality.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

qferryjam
8 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

Certainly not what I am suggesting just the opposite. However balance out against League positions with him, I don't see it all as negative. 

 

Yet another confrontational response though which is a theme unless you choose to be completely negative on this thread 

Wasn’t a dig at you just an off the cuff description of Neilson and his inability to Get results in the cups , it may be his way of coping with defeat but it just doesn’t seem to bother him all that much , going as far back as the debacle in Malta in the airport after and on the plane no real disappointment from the players and again this season the excuse being League position , winning the league against these players and teams was a bear minimum for most fans , they really should have let us know cups didn’t matter at the start of season, Berra’s comment of they saw it coming his about a money spinner against Hibs just adds to the frustration 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
27 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


😂 actually Ginelly was good from the start and played how many games , Kingsleys regression was clear. Halliday was pish for most of the season.. GMS was terrible for 15 games out of 17 games. 
 

Robert’s clearly improved when he left 

 

Ginelly got injured but was our best attacking player by some distance.  Buying that type of quality is normally outside our budget.

 

Answer honestly - do you think Roberts is better than a fit Ginelly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Ginelly got injured but was our best attacking player by some distance.  Buying that type of quality is normally outside our budget.

 

Answer honestly - do you think Roberts is better than a fit Ginelly?

I'm pinning 99% of my hopes on Ginnelly.

 

No pressure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Longer than that. 

We don't get the value for our pound notes that other clubs with less resource do. 

Our 'scouting' network seems to specialise in unearthing duds from far and wide and then the management hand them 3 and 4 year deals. 

Is Savage any better? 

Is finding 'talent' to fit Bob's turgid football an impossible task? 

Who knows. 

I suspect next year like this year and last year, we'll be made to look very ordinary by teams stuffed full of players that we all think are not Hearts quality.  

 

Our scouting network was binned by Romanov and we haven't managed to replace it post Administration.

Edited by frankblack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

I'm pinning 99% of my hopes on Ginnelly.

 

No pressure.

 

How is that relevant to my comments?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ginelly got injured but was our best attacking player by some distance.  Buying that type of quality is normally outside our budget.

 

Answer honestly - do you think Roberts is better than a fit Ginelly?


no of course not. I think Robbie Neilson is a poor coach. And Jason Robert’s improvement whenever he left is yet more evidence of that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

qferryjam
53 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think he inherited a decent team that were well coached to begin with, but didn't give McCulloch the time.  Clark got the benefits, but you will find many examples of the same circumstances where it doesn't.

No he didn’t he inherited a squad at the bottom of the league and used what he had with a couple of additions in January 

never heard him saying we need this or that just managed , got the best out of them improving results and players along the way ,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

What makes you think that even with another manager in place and a limited budget we would achieve much more than top six?  Our squad is nowhere near as good as you think it is.

 

This is spot on. 

 

There are a number of players in our squad who are nowhere near as good as a large number of our fans think they are. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

siegementality
6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This is spot on. 

 

There are a number of players in our squad who are nowhere near as good as a large number of our fans think they are. 

Go on, name them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Go on, name them.

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope - just being realistic.  We we absolutely stinking when he took over, and had been on a decline for years.

 

That kind of rot takes some turning around, and we did get the promotion but had terrible cup results.

 

From the start of 2020 Stendel's final 13 games in charge:

5 wins 

5 draws 

3 losses.

 

Neilson's last 13 games in charge:

6 wins 

5 draws 

2 losses.  

 

Stendel was in the  Premiership, and beat Glasgow Rangers in the cup. 

 

Neilson was in the Championship, and lost to Brora Rangers in the cup.

 

So if we were 'absolutely stinking' at the end of last season...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 


i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
19 minutes ago, qferryjam said:

No he didn’t he inherited a squad at the bottom of the league and used what he had with a couple of additions in January 

never heard him saying we need this or that just managed , got the best out of them improving results and players along the way ,

 

Its an academic argument as to whether the previous manager would have turned them around if he had been given the time.

 

Either way sometimes you get lucky and other times you get what we did with Stendel and continue into freefall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

siegementality
4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

So, if they are nowhere good enough then the rest are definitely not good enough then, yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

Then while you are at it look at the backup for injuries and suspensions.  Take out say our top 3 players for a few months and will we cope?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greedy Jambo
1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:


i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

I hope to **** Smith's no finished, we've just got rid of Logan! 😂

I still have faith in Halkett, new manager, better training regime etc. 

He'll no doubt go to Kilmarnock or something and be outstanding. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So, if they are nowhere good enough then the rest are definitely not good enough then, yes?

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


i don’t think anyone thinks Halkett is good 😂 he’s absolute dugmeat. Naisy and Smith are finished. 
 

A fit Haring it the best player in Scotland outside of Glasgow. No idea whether he will ever return to those levels 

 

Haring is not that good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

There isn't much point trying to argue with someone that will only see the negatives.

 

If you recruit as many players as we did then there will be some that don't work out.

frear was,nt good enough for him to sign at dundee united.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JimmyCant
8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Smith, Haring, Naismith, Halkett. 

 

And let's see how Boyce does next season against better defenders. 

I’d probably add Kingsley to that. Defensively a bomb scare who has cost us goals since he came.

 

Irving. 2-3 games where he has had major influence. When he is off beat though he’s an empty jersey and he stops working. Too much of a mood player to be a first choice central midfield pick.

 

Walker and just about every other player on the fringe of starting 11. Not good enough often enough. 
 

Gnanduillet. Nowhere near physical enough to hold his own in the top league. I’m not even sure he’s that good a player.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

siegementality
2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

So getting back to the original point, another manager couldn’t get a better tune out of our squad than Neilson can, because they are basically shite. This is despite the fact that Neilson signed several of those shite players and you only think one is any good (Kingsley) and to use a Neilson phrase, that good one is no Pele either. 

 

Given what I’ve seen and heard from Neilson I am more than happy to take my chances with another manager.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
23 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So getting back to the original point, another manager couldn’t get a better tune out of our squad than Neilson can, because they are basically shite. This is despite the fact that Neilson signed several of those shite players and you only think one is any good (Kingsley) and to use a Neilson phrase, that good one is no Pele either. 

 

Given what I’ve seen and heard from Neilson I am more than happy to take my chances with another manager.

 

 

 

I think Neilson signed Craig Gordon too but I know a lot of supporters don't want to credit him with that despite the fact Gordon himself stated that his relationship with Robbie was a factor. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of matters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
33 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

Souttar still has a lot to learn and nobody has ever put a bid in for him. We are taking a chance relying on his fitness to hold up as he’s never played a full season in his career. 
Looking good beside shite playing even worse shite does not a star make. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I think Neilson signed Craig Gordon too but I know a lot of supporters don't want to credit him with that despite the fact Gordon himself stated that his relationship with Robbie was a factor. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of matters. 

It’s been confirmed that he was coming back before RN was hired. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
29 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’d probably add Kingsley to that. Defensively a bomb scare who has cost us goals since he came.

 

Irving. 2-3 games where he has had major influence. When he is off beat though he’s an empty jersey and he stops working. Too much of a mood player to be a first choice central midfield pick.

 

Walker and just about every other player on the fringe of starting 11. Not good enough often enough. 
 

Gnanduillet. Nowhere near physical enough to hold his own in the top league. I’m not even sure he’s that good a player.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s been confirmed that he was coming back before RN was hired. 

 

See. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Then while you are at it look at the backup for injuries and suspensions.  Take out say our top 3 players for a few months and will we cope?


If we had a good manager maybe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874
39 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Haring is not that good. 


A fully fit Peter Haring absolutely is.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

See. 

Fair enough 😆 but it wasn’t his signing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
15 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

We have to hope Savage can do exactly that, so the next manager can have a better chance than Stendel did. 
I agree though we don’t have as good a squad as some think. 

Edited by Pasquale for King
Link to comment
Share on other sites

JimmyCant
48 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I disagree about Kingsley but that's OK. 

 

Irving is nowhere near as good a player as a lot of fans, and Irving himself, seem to think. 

 

Walker just kind of epitomises Hearts in the past 4 years to me. There is a player there, when he can be arsed, but those occasions are few and far between. 

 

Hopefully Savage will do a job over the summer and identify players who can raise the standard of player. 

It’s all related as well, to who is coaching and managing and developing players. Even first team players need to be well coached, motivated and have their weaknesses improved. I don’t see much of that going on really. What players have improved this season ? Henderson I’d say. Boyce has had a very good season and looks more like the player we thought we were getting. Halliday improved a little over the course of the season.

 

I think a decent manager would look at our squad and maybe have to sign 4 players to make a really good first 11 with a half decent bench. The current manager will sign double that purely because he hasn’t got the best out of what he has. Players like Walker and Irving and a couple of others. Perfectly good players but playing at 65% for the most part.

 

So, not only are we a bit short of real quality in all departments, we’re really short on getting the best out of what we have.

Edited by JimmyCant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weakened Offender
1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s all related as well, to who is coaching and managing and developing players. Even first team players need to be well coached, motivated and have their weaknesses improved. I don’t see much of that going on really. What players have improved this season ? Henderson I’d say. Boyce has had a very good season and looks more like the player we thought we were getting. Halliday improved a little over the course of the season.

 

I think a decent manager would look at our squad and maybe have to sign 4 players to make a really good first 11 with a half decent bench. The current manager will sign double that purely because he hasn’t got the best out of what he has. Players like Walker and Irving and a couple of others. Perfectly good players but playing at 65% for the most part.

 

Do you think another manager can get more out of Jamie Walker? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

IF Souttar plays games then we definitely have a player that most clubs would like to have. Big IF though. 

 

We have a great goalie.

 

I like Kingsley.

 

The midfield is still weak for the SPL and we need at least one new top signing up front. 

 

 

 

Yet another winger?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

frankblack
44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


If we had a good manager maybe

 

Nonsense.  Any new manager will see the same as us that there is no strength and depth to our squad.

 

At the first opportunity, they are going to order another rebuild if they have unrealistic targets to hit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JimmyCant
6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Do you think another manager can get more out of Jamie Walker? 

I’ve never been sure if Jamie needs his arse kicked or given an arm round his shoulder. Maybe he has issues that mean no coach could get a consistent tune out of him. His knee problems don’t help of course. And he’s had Naismith ahead of him in the picking order in his best position. But Jamie Walker on fire is one of the top 5 football players at the club.

Edited by JimmyCant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...