Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[TerribleTrio2017]

The boxes that don't involve 70% possession and 4  or less shots on goal and more attacking minded beyond the halfway line

[TerribleTrio2017]

For me he would be an improvement over Neilson 

[smiler]

2 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Well there’s the failing at PNE box, and the not doing that well at Norwich when you look into it box. 

Did he really fail at PNE? Purely from memory I don’t remember him being a disaster, I may well be wrong though, that is possible.

[TerribleTrio2017]

13 minutes ago, WageThief said:

Souttar

 

In open play? 

[hearts 4 the cup]

Unsure why today’s performance/result has resulted in resurrecting the neilson out thread.

 

his team selection, generally is what most of us would’ve picked, with the exception of Mackay in for GMS. The lack of fight is down to the players, not him. Think we need to see how the next few games play out before we start panicking 

Edited October 30, 2021 by hearts 4 the cup

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, smiler said:

Did he really fail at PNE? Purely from memory I don’t remember him being a disaster, I may well be wrong though, that is possible.

More that it was just all a bit average. Roughly the same number of wins and losses but a pretty dreadful run of games that led to his dismissal. 

[Hearts1975]

30 minutes ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

The thing that really gets me is when we go behind, there is no sense of urgency to get back in the game.

 

When Dundee scored last week, where was the demand to go for the winner. It was almost as if the team had been told to keep doing what they were doing and it will all work out.

 

Today was the same. When we went behind, it was was the same slow motion stuff. It was almost as if we were watching Levein's team.

 

Neilson has track record away from home and his priority is not losing.

 

So far this season we have been good and Neilson has rightly had many plaudits. The bottom line however, we are not winning any more and this must change.

 

 

 

The way I see it is that we need to get back to how we started the season where we were just that little bit quicker, cuter and sharper in what we were trying to do.

The last few games I thought that we looked a bit berefit of ideas, and this was particularly evident in the first half against st Johnstone, and we just weren’t at the races today at all.

 

For those who have criticised Boyce, you really need to think hard as it is no co incidence that replacing him since his injury has resulted in much less attacking threat from our team.
 

I said before, I was on the fence with Gnando, but he was absolutely terrible today. He offered absolutely nothing up front, and his link up play was dire to say the least. Boyce at least gets into the right positions and allows more penetration from the other 2 forwards. Playing 1 up front means it is such an important position for whoever plays it, as they form the focal point of the attack.
 

If they don’t Throw their weight about, or cause any real threat with their play, then all over the pitch it results in plenty of possession, sideways and backwards and not much else. The amount of time he ran the channels and didn’t stay central was ridiculous. He was Powderpuff at times and showed no real desire or will to win 

 

All that said, the likes of woodburn, McKay and GMS/Ginnelly need to focus on getting in behind the full backs, and get balls into the danger area. But for them to get behind, they need to play off the front man, and if he doesn’t know how to hold the ball up properly ……………

Cammy and Beni are great players but they won’t get box to box, as it isn’t their game 

 

Hence the line striker role being so important to how we play. If we can’t stick the ball up front through the main striker, then we will have all the possession in the world but a lack of real chances or goal threat 
 

We need to get that spark back and that has to start next week. 3 points is required and to get us out of this current string of results.

 

We are still up there, it’s not like anyone is running away with anything at the moment. Everyone is entitled to get a poor performance and we are no different. Hopefully that’s all that it was. 
 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

54 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

I’m sorry but we are Hearts we are not scumdee or hibs we deserve better re my last post maybe people think they don’t deserve better but we do

Have you seen our trophy count in the past 70 years? Hearts fans from the 50’s and very early 60’s may have had good reason to be upset as we started going downhill mid 60’s results wise. “We deserve better” in Scotland is so OF. I’m not even sure I know what it means. 
A cup win every two years?

League winners every 5 years?

A European trophy every 60 years?

We’re Hearts fans. We know what we have. We live with it and it makes us stronger.

HHGH

[WageThief]

28 minutes ago, TerribleTrio2017 said:

In open play? 

was that part of your initial shite question I responded to?

[Bungalow Bill]

45 minutes ago, hearts 4 the cup said:

Unsure why today’s performance/result has resulted in resurrecting the neilson out thread.

 

his team selection, generally is what most of us would’ve picked, with the exception of Mackay in for GMS. The lack of fight is down to the players, not him. Think we need to see how the next few games play out before we start panicking 

Agree. The players have to be more accountable. 

[Hmfc1965]

41 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Have you seen our trophy count in the past 70 years? Hearts fans from the 50’s and very early 60’s may have had good reason to be upset as we started going downhill mid 60’s results wise. “We deserve better” in Scotland is so OF. I’m not even sure I know what it means. 
A cup win every two years?

League winners every 5 years?

A European trophy every 60 years?

We’re Hearts fans. We know what we have. We live with it and it makes us stronger.

HHGH

Maybe just competing at the top end if Scottish football. 

Is that too much to ask?

I've seen a few comments about how we've just been promoted. 

It's our own fault we were down in the first place. 

[Stone1992]

5 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

Maybe just competing at the top end if Scottish football. 

Is that too much to ask?

I've seen a few comments about how we've just been promoted. 

It's our own fault we were down in the first place. 

Are we not at present competing at the top end of Scottish football? 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

4 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

Maybe just competing at the top end if Scottish football. 

Is that too much to ask?

I've seen a few comments about how we've just been promoted. 

It's our own fault we were down in the first place. 

Demoted with 8 games left? 
Not exactly our fault. Each fan to their own I guess.

[buzzbomb1958]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

You mean your voice. 🤔

Someone has to speak for a fan run club but nothing is said seems to me same old same old,are the fans in charge yet?

[Hmfc1965]

15 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Demoted with 8 games left? 
Not exactly our fault. Each fan to their own I guess.

It was at least partly our fault for being at the bottom of the league. 

 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

11 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

It was at least partly our fault for being at the bottom of the league. 

 

That we were. Doesn’t make demotion right though.

[Jim Panzee]

23 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

That we were. Doesn’t make demotion right though.

As well as the examples of other clubs at the bottom end of their leagues being allowed to complete their seasons and staying up.

[1971fozzy]

2 hours ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

The thing that really gets me is when we go behind, there is no sense of urgency to get back in the game.

 

When Dundee scored last week, where was the demand to go for the winner. It was almost as if the team had been told to keep doing what they were doing and it will all work out.

 

Today was the same. When we went behind, it was was the same slow motion stuff. It was almost as if we were watching Levein's team.

 

Neilson has track record away from home and his priority is not losing.

 

So far this season we have been good and Neilson has rightly had many plaudits. The bottom line however, we are not winning any more and this must change.

 

 

 

Ibrox ? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

17 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

As well as the examples of other clubs at the bottom end of their leagues being allowed to complete their seasons and staying up.

Including the bottom three in an English division that when the season restarted not one of the three were relegated.

No nothing to see here in Scotland.

[davemclaren]

7 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Someone has to speak for a fan run club but nothing is said seems to me same old same old,are the fans in charge yet?

So how are you gauging opinion when you speak for this fan run club? 
 

FoH now own the majority of the shares. Would be interesting to see someone stand for election with their main policy being to sack Robbie. . 

 

 

[Sherbet]

7 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Demoted with 8 games left? 
Not exactly our fault. Each fan to their own I guess.

Was our fault we were where we were when the league was called

[blairdin]

DrA quick look at my post history and you'll see I'm not a Robbie fan - he should've been replaced after last season.

 

I remain unconvinced by him, I don't think he will be good enough, BUT he deserves the chance to build on what has been a very very decent start to this season by him and the team.

My biggest problem is, to date, we only really set up to play one way, with this 3-4-3 (which can in effect become a 5-4-1). Despite the number of attacking players, it's a defensive set up that can leave the lone striker isolated or having to drop deep closer to the midfield if the opposition are clever.

 

Although our wide play and players are very good, too often there's no striker in the box in space for them to hit. We don't create enough good chances for all our possession. We've relied on too many worldlie strikes from the likes of Smith, Soutar, Kinsgley ect to win games.

Boycie is very, very good at playing the striker role in this set up. Gnando is not - it just isn't his game, this striker role doesn't play to his strengths. He isn't anything like as good a player as Boycie, but we can't clone Boycie or expect to keep another player with his ability happy in reserve to call on once in a while.

 

We're at risk of becoming a one trick pony. Robbie has to accept that sometimes, we need to set up differently according to the players we have available and also to make ourselves harder for opponents to predict and set up against. I can forgive losing the occasional game away to Aberdeen - nothing new there - but we have to turn some of those draws into wins to have a very good season. If we slip down the league despite losing very few matches, pressure will come.

 

 

[jambogaza]

This thread popping up is clearly ridiculous but it just shows how little good will Robbie has stored up in the bank. 

[Getintaethem]

17 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Bump.

Have you been waiting since June for the chance to resurrect this thread?

[chrystaf]

9 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Absolutely. Need to pick ourselves up and move on to the next match. 

Okay, but it was the manner of this defeat that is surely cause for concern, and the fact that a strong subs bench is not being used to good effect.

And we're not winning any week at the moment.

[blairdin]

16 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

This thread popping up is clearly ridiculous but it just shows how little good will Robbie has stored up in the bank. 

This. 

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it is why a promising start to the season could be derailed far quicker than it should be. 

[chrystaf]

24 minutes ago, blairdin said:

DrA quick look at my post history and you'll see I'm not a Robbie fan - he should've been replaced after last season.

 

I remain unconvinced by him, I don't think he will be good enough, BUT he deserves the chance to build on what has been a very very decent start to this season by him and the team.

My biggest problem is, to date, we only really set up to play one way, with this 3-4-3 (which can in effect become a 5-4-1). Despite the number of attacking players, it's a defensive set up that can leave the lone striker isolated or having to drop deep closer to the midfield if the opposition are clever.

 

Although our wide play and players are very good, too often there's no striker in the box in space for them to hit. We don't create enough good chances for all our possession. We've relied on too many worldlie strikes from the likes of Smith, Soutar, Kinsgley ect to win games.

 

Boycie is very, very good at playing the striker role in this set up. Gnando is not - it just isn't his game, this striker role doesn't play to his strengths. He isn't anything like as good a player as Boycie, but we can't clone Boycie or expect to keep another player with his ability happy in reserve to call on once in a while.

 

We're at risk of becoming a one trick pony. Robbie has to accept that sometimes, we need to set up differently according to the players we have available and also to make ourselves harder for opponents to predict and set up against. I can forgive losing the occasional game away to Aberdeen - nothing new there - but we have to turn some of those draws into wins to have a very good season. If we slip down the league despite losing very few matches, pressure will come.

 

 

Says it in one.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Okay, but it was the manner of this defeat that is surely cause for concern, and the fact that a strong subs bench is not being used to good effect.

And we're not winning any week at the moment.

We’re not playing at the moment. Things change quickly in football. Just look at Aberdeen. 

[davemclaren]

28 minutes ago, blairdin said:

DrA quick look at my post history and you'll see I'm not a Robbie fan - he should've been replaced after last season.

 

I remain unconvinced by him, I don't think he will be good enough, BUT he deserves the chance to build on what has been a very very decent start to this season by him and the team.

My biggest problem is, to date, we only really set up to play one way, with this 3-4-3 (which can in effect become a 5-4-1). Despite the number of attacking players, it's a defensive set up that can leave the lone striker isolated or having to drop deep closer to the midfield if the opposition are clever.

 

Although our wide play and players are very good, too often there's no striker in the box in space for them to hit. We don't create enough good chances for all our possession. We've relied on too many worldlie strikes from the likes of Smith, Soutar, Kinsgley ect to win games.

 

Boycie is very, very good at playing the striker role in this set up. Gnando is not - it just isn't his game, this striker role doesn't play to his strengths. He isn't anything like as good a player as Boycie, but we can't clone Boycie or expect to keep another player with his ability happy in reserve to call on once in a while.

 

We're at risk of becoming a one trick pony. Robbie has to accept that sometimes, we need to set up differently according to the players we have available and also to make ourselves harder for opponents to predict and set up against. I can forgive losing the occasional game away to Aberdeen - nothing new there - but we have to turn some of those draws into wins to have a very good season. If we slip down the league despite losing very few matches, pressure will come.

 

 

Teams always need options in how they play and we don’t seem to change it much at all when struggling. Ironic really as Robbie used to get called a tinkerer for changing things too much.  
 

Maybe Savage isn’t letting him.  🤔🤣

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, blairdin said:

DrA quick look at my post history and you'll see I'm not a Robbie fan - he should've been replaced after last season.

 

I remain unconvinced by him, I don't think he will be good enough, BUT he deserves the chance to build on what has been a very very decent start to this season by him and the team.

My biggest problem is, to date, we only really set up to play one way, with this 3-4-3 (which can in effect become a 5-4-1). Despite the number of attacking players, it's a defensive set up that can leave the lone striker isolated or having to drop deep closer to the midfield if the opposition are clever.

 

Although our wide play and players are very good, too often there's no striker in the box in space for them to hit. We don't create enough good chances for all our possession. We've relied on too many worldlie strikes from the likes of Smith, Soutar, Kinsgley ect to win games.

 

Boycie is very, very good at playing the striker role in this set up. Gnando is not - it just isn't his game, this striker role doesn't play to his strengths. He isn't anything like as good a player as Boycie, but we can't clone Boycie or expect to keep another player with his ability happy in reserve to call on once in a while.

 

We're at risk of becoming a one trick pony. Robbie has to accept that sometimes, we need to set up differently according to the players we have available and also to make ourselves harder for opponents to predict and set up against. I can forgive losing the occasional game away to Aberdeen - nothing new there - but we have to turn some of those draws into wins to have a very good season. If we slip down the league despite losing very few matches, pressure will come.

 

 

Very good post and explains where probably many fans are. We all want Neilson to be successful because that will mean that Hearts are successful - but there are very obvious flaws, like the time it took to realise that we had to change when Broonie moved into midfield.

[Hearts1975]

Next week against DU we have a chance to open up a nice wee gap between them, and us, and also the other teams. Let’s just get focussed on this game, as it could be a very important 3 points if we can get them and get back on track 
 

Hopefully we can get Boyce back in the side, as he is a really important player for us.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Next week against DU we have a chance to open up a nice wee gap between them, and us, and also the other teams. Let’s just get focussed on this game, as it could be a very important 3 points if we can get them and get back on track 
 

Hopefully we can get Boyce back in the side, as he is a really important player for us.

An important match for both clubs. 

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

An important match for both clubs. 

It’s a big 3 points Dave but a match that we should be looking to win

[blairdin]

5 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It’s a big 3 points Dave but a match that we should be looking to win

As far as I'm concerned, we should be looking and expecting to win every home game. I don't think that's unreasonable, even when the old firm come calling.

 

It's a good fixture for us next week to bounce back and re-establish ourselves in the best of the rest position.

 

[Hearts1975]

5 minutes ago, blairdin said:

As far as I'm concerned, we should be looking and expecting to win every home game. I don't think that's unreasonable, even when the old firm come calling.

 

It's a good fixture for us next week to bounce back and re-establish ourselves in the best of the rest position.

 

no question, we should be looking to win every home game. Agree with what you are saying. 

[jr ewing]

Score draw. 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Score draw. 

Happy Halloween. 😄

 

Not an unlikely result to be fair. 

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Happy Halloween. 😄

 

Not an unlikely result to be fair. 

Cheers 🍻 could see yesterday's defeat coming a mile away 😀 

[Forever Hearts]

19 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

It’s a big 3 points Dave but a match that we should be looking to win

Of course we should be looking to win it, Dundee United are half our size and don't have anywhere near our budget. Hearts should be beating Dundee United at Tynecastle every day of the week. No excuses. 

[Hearts1975]

4 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Of course we should be looking to win it, Dundee United are half our size and don't have anywhere near our budget. Hearts should be beating Dundee United at Tynecastle every day of the week. No excuses. 

Absolutely. Was just replying to a post from DM who was saying that it is a big match for both sides.

 

there isnt much point in us even talking about 3rd, or even 4th place finishes, if we can’t beat the likes of Utd at home. 

 

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Absolutely. Was just replying to a post from DM who was saying that it is a big match for both sides.

 

there isnt much point in us even talking about 3rd, or even 4th place finishes, if we can’t beat the likes of Utd at home. 

 

 

 

 

You get your final league place due to your performance across all the matches of the season, not just one. It’s like saying there isn’t much point in Rangers talking about winning the league if they can’t beat Hearts at home. 

[Lfhearts]

2 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Of course we should be looking to win it, Dundee United are half our size and don't have anywhere near our budget. Hearts should be beating Dundee United at Tynecastle every day of the week. No excuses. 

D Utd are playing well at moment and creating a lot of chances, we are average and creating hardly anything because of managers inability to be flexible.

 

[Debut 4]

3 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

D Utd are playing well at moment and creating a lot of chances, we are average and creating hardly anything because of managers inability to be flexible.

 

I think managers in the past would look at our last few performances and think about springing a wee surprise. 
 

See the signs and look at a freshen up, whether it’s a tweak in formation or personnel. As the away side, Utd will set up based on our current style.  

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

D Utd are playing well at moment and creating a lot of chances, we are average and creating hardly anything because of managers inability to be flexible.

 

 

Lazy criticism, but again typical of the slavering nonsense all through this thread.

 

Given our squad, what exactly does he have to pick from on the bench to improve things if Boyce is out?

[Lfhearts]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Lazy criticism, but again typical of the slavering nonsense all through this thread.

 

Given our squad, what exactly does he have to pick from on the bench to improve things if Boyce is out?

Best squad in years, two of the players likely to get a goal are stuck on bench if they are lucky.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Lfhearts

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I think managers in the past would look at our last few performances and think about springing a wee surprise. 
 

See the signs and look at a freshen up, whether it’s a tweak in formation or personnel. As the away side, Utd will set up based on our current style.  

Getting Boyce back would be a nice surprise. 

[Debut 4]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Getting Boyce back would be a nice surprise. 

It would. We need him. 
 

I’d like RN to look at how he deploys our natural wide players. I think other posters have pointed out that the likes of GMS isn’t really suited to this more central role.  Too often outmuscled or crowded out. 
 

He likes the security of the touchline. He can see the game in front of him when he receives it. I just think he looks tentative having to be aware of who’s behind him when those balls go into a crowded midfield.  

[frankblack]

19 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Best squad in years, two of the players likely to get a goal are stuck on bench if they are lucky.

 

Best squad since Robbie left but not quite good enough yet with no depth and short of at least one decent striker.

[Hearts1975]

43 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You get your final league place due to your performance across all the matches of the season, not just one. It’s like saying there isn’t much point in Rangers talking about winning the league if they can’t beat Hearts at home. 

I understand your point that the final league placings are based on all of the games, but there are pivotal games that every team has in a season, and I think that if we are going to get 3rd, this could be a pivotal game for us.

 

 If we don’t win, then Utd go clear in 3rd, we go 3 pts behind them and the vermin and sheep could both go 3 pts behind us if they win their games.  
 

if we win we are 3 clear from 3rd and potentially be between 6 and 9 points from 4th 
 

Every win is important but this particular 3 points could really set down a marker for us. That was what I meant. 

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I understand your point that the final league placings are based on all of the games, but there are pivotal games that every team has in a season, and I think that if we are going to get 3rd, this could be a pivotal game for us.

 

 If we don’t win, then Utd go clear in 3rd, we go 3 pts behind them and the vermin and sheep could both go 3 pts behind us if they win their games.  
 

if we win we are 3 clear from 3rd and potentially be between 6 and 9 points from 4th 
 

Every win is important but this particular 3 points could really set down a marker for us. That was what I meant. 

👍