Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

In the space of 6 months, hearts lost or drew with.

 

Dunfermline * 2

Alloa

Queen of the south * 2

Morton

Alloa

Arbroath

Dundee

Brora Rangers 

Inverness

Raith Rovers 

 

we dropped points to these diddy teams in then capped it off with a loss to Brora Rangers in the Scottish cup.

 

an absolute embarrassment. Neilson should be ashamed of that record 

 

 

That's fine, You can be embarrassed all you want. Not sure why folk get so annoyed when some people are just willing to give managers more time. We're all allowed our own opinions. FFS I'm in the minority on here - what's so wrong with having a different view?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

In the space of 6 months, hearts lost or drew with.

 

Dunfermline * 2

Alloa

Queen of the south * 2

Morton

Alloa

Arbroath

Dundee

Brora Rangers 

Inverness

Raith Rovers 

 

we dropped points to these diddy teams in then capped it off with a loss to Brora Rangers in the Scottish cup.

 

an absolute embarrassment. Neilson should be ashamed of that record 

 

Funny how people always point out the worst without measuring against good. 

 

Not a dig at you,   one of the more balanced, however I find everyone seems to have gone a bit tonto. 

 

Can we do better, absolutely, can we do worse, well what has transpired since he left in 2016 suggest it could be better the devil you know. 

 

I put a lot of it still on the players as much as coaching staff. 

 

It's all opinion, only time itself will tell, but if these players empty another manager, I think that too could be a mistake. 

 

Wish I had crystal balls 

[Bad Religion]

44 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

From the POV of a potential new manager, yes. And again, Neilson is not responsible for the previous managers. Who is our last manager who delivered in terms of league placings every season he's been in charge?

Potential managers will probably see the bigger picture unlike your good self. 

[Mighty jam]

14 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Some people obviously still think Robbie is the answer. A few players seem to have got worse over the course of the season but can we have a list of the players he has helped improve this season?

Its not just down to Robbie though.  I think Robbie was entitled to believe he would get a higher standard of play from some of the more seasoned professionals. GMS in particular really failed to shine, I think everyone thought that he would be outstanding in the championship did not transpire that way don't think Robbie can be blamed for that level of performance. makes me wonder about the actual standard of the MLS.

 

Think Andy Irvine got worse as season progressed too. not remotely bothered if he stays now.

 

 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Mighty jam said:

Its not just down to Robbie though.  I think Robbie was entitled to believe he would get a higher standard of play from some of the more seasoned professionals. GMS in particular really failed to shine, I think everyone thought that he would be outstanding in the championship did not transpire that way don't think Robbie can be blamed for that level of performance. makes me wonder about the actual standard of the MLS.

 

Think Andy Irvine got worse as season progressed too. not remotely bothered if he stays now.

 

 

I think a lot more players got worse than better but Kingsley, Smith and Irving have got noticeably worse. There have been a couple of improvements, Halkett hasn’t been as bad, still not good enough, Boyce, I think has got better but would’ve had a better season of not so isolated a lot of the time. I have to say, I expected a lot more players to thrive at this level. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by GinRummy

[Mighty jam]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I think a lot more players got worse than better but Kingsley, Smith and Irving have got noticeably worse. There have been a couple of improvements, Halkett hasn’t been as bad, still not good enough, Boyce, I think has got better but would’ve had a better season of not so isolated a lot of the time. 

going to give pass marks to Haliday, Hendo & and walker too, 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Mighty jam said:

going to give pass marks to Haliday, Hendo & and walker too, 

I think, other than Friday, Henderson put in better performance under Stendel last season. Halliday is not a central midfielder, he’d make an ok utility man on the left hand side. Walker has definitely done better this season than last. 

[sandylejambo]

Neilson cant tell a good player so why is he even being considered, Frear! Jusus wept, and he cant make players better, only worse. anyone who cant admit that he cant motivate players is no fan of football. Quite a few players this season didn't even have to shower after the game, because they never once broke into a sweat. It's a managers job to get players up for a game and one in nine is not doing the job, 

just get the man away from Tynecastle. 

[Bazzas right boot]

32 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Some people obviously still think Robbie is the answer. A few players seem to have got worse over the course of the season but can we have a list of the players he has helped improve this season?

 

 

 

I'm neither happy or in a rage if he stays. 

 

I can see merit in both sides of debate. 

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

 

I'm neither happy or in a rage if he stays. 

 

I can see merit in both sides of debate. 

 

 

Not like you to sit on the fence. 

[The Treasurer]

40 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Alloa, put out from a club in the same division-not for me. 

 

The European result is one of many by Scottish teams, I'd be happy with getting in Europe again Tbh, like we did under Rab first tone after promotion. 

 

Brora is utter jobbies tho. 

 

Seriously. 

You think losing to a part time club that has never beaten us before is "acceptable" because they are in the same division??? 

And losing to a part time team from a diddy country is ok because other Scottish teams are shite in Europe???? 

[leginten]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

Seriously. 

You think losing to a part time club that has never beaten us before is "acceptable" because they are in the same division??? 

And losing to a part time team from a diddy country is ok because other Scottish teams are shite in Europe???? 

It’s a perfect illustration of the mentality - from the boardroom right down to a section of our support - which has seen us plumb the depths in the last few years. The unacceptable is deemed acceptable. 

[pointon]

So still the manager perfect manager for the world we live in restricted,mundane and never ending what time to be alive 😂

[Alan_R]

6 minutes ago, leginten said:

It’s a perfect illustration of the mentality - from the boardroom right down to a section of our support - which has seen us plumb the depths in the last few years. The unacceptable is deemed acceptable. 

100%. Nail on head

 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Funny how people always point out the worst without measuring against good. 

 

Not a dig at you,   one of the more balanced, however I find everyone seems to have gone a bit tonto. 

 

Can we do better, absolutely, can we do worse, well what has transpired since he left in 2016 suggest it could be better the devil you know. 

 

I put a lot of it still on the players as much as coaching staff. 

 

It's all opinion, only time itself will tell, but if these players empty another manager, I think that too could be a mistake. 

 

Wish I had crystal balls 

I haven’t seen much good this season mate. 3 games at most.  I get your point on players but we have signed 13 players under neilson, one who had left again and seems to be impressing.  Surely those 13 are his responsibility 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Funny how people always point out the worst without measuring against good. 

 

Not a dig at you,   one of the more balanced, however I find everyone seems to have gone a bit tonto. 

 

Can we do better, absolutely, can we do worse, well what has transpired since he left in 2016 suggest it could be better the devil you know. 

 

I put a lot of it still on the players as much as coaching staff. 

 

It's all opinion, only time itself will tell, but if these players empty another manager, I think that too could be a mistake. 

 

Wish I had crystal balls 

i have gone tonto so it’s a fair assessment on me. I think I’ve a fairly decent track record of defending managers for longer than most. But once I’m over the edge that’s it - I can’t really go back

[The Shed Floodlight]

2 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

As was Alloa, as was Birkikara

And Queen of the South,  Raith and Arbroath,  Neilson broke records for all the wrong reasons

[BackOfTheNet]

So what happened to the rumours that someone else was already lined up to replace? Was that nonsense created more out of hope than reality? (Completely understandable mind you)

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

It’s a perfect illustration of the mentality - from the boardroom right down to a section of our support - which has seen us plumb the depths in the last few years. The unacceptable is deemed acceptable. 

This. 

[gregzy2k7]

7 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Nonesense. 

Lots of fans will. 

Lots of fans already have. 

 

A select few won't forget about past results, most will move forward whoever the manager is. 

 

You have honestly forgotten being emptied out of both cups by tinpot teams this season?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

Potential managers will probably see the bigger picture unlike your good self. 

 

And what happens if we finish 3rd next year but get pumped out the cups by Diddy teams? Sack the next guy? Managers need more than 6 months and they shouldn't get sacked for one bad result, whether it's the worst in your history or not. Personally I remember being more upset getting beat 6-2 by Hibs under JJ. Stendel gets defended to then hilt on here by most of the people on here who want Neilson out and he was responsible for the single most damaging result in our recent history. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

You have honestly forgotten being emptied out of both cups by tinpot teams this season?

 

Hibs and Celtic aside this season Neilson's been a very poor cup manager and that needs to change. If that Brora result doesn't give him the kick up the arse he needs to take the cups more seriously, nothing will. Neilson is, however, strong in the league with us. And the league is usually what Hearts managers get judged on at the end of the day.

 

On the flip side in between Neilson's stints, Levein and Stendel got pretty good cup results but were shit in the league. Cathro was shit in the cup and the league. It's going to be extremely tough to find a manager who has us doing well in the cups and league (even Burley got pumped out the LC by Livingston), especially one who sees their predecessor getting punted after delivering the title he was hired to deliver because of fan protests. I can't be the only person concerned fan power is being taken too far here.

 

The recent Scotsman article about the media having a go at fans protesting was so far off the mark it's unreal - comparing our situation to two long serving managers was ridiculous. McInnes and Lennon both had numerous embarrassing results before the protests started. McInnes getting owned by Gary Locke's teenagers in several games in 13/14 has to be as embarrassing as it gets, for example.

Edited April 12, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Not like you to sit on the fence. 

 

 

No point in being in a rage Tbh it means you can't enjoy anything. 

 

Top flight next season 👍

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

Seriously. 

You think losing to a part time club that has never beaten us before is "acceptable" because they are in the same division??? 

And losing to a part time team from a diddy country is ok because other Scottish teams are shite in Europe???? 

 

Nah, but it never shocked me. 

 

Brora did. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

You have honestly forgotten being emptied out of both cups by tinpot teams this season?

I've not forgotten. 

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

42 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And what happens if we finish 3rd next year but get pumped out the cups by Diddy teams? Sack the next guy? Managers need more than 6 months and they shouldn't get sacked for one bad result, whether it's the worst in your history or not. Personally I remember being more upset getting beat 6-2 by Hibs under JJ. Stendel gets defended to then hilt on here by most of the people on here who want Neilson out and he was responsible for the single most damaging result in our recent history. 

Let’s be honest - he’s had 3 very decent performances, 2 absolute horror shows in the cups, 18 average, below average  or very poor performances. 
 

Question mate - do you think there is a pathway for Neilson to re-establish the trust of the support? Do you genuinely think he can do enough to make it through next season without protests outside. Do you genuinely believe he can play in a way that will change the views of sowewhere between 78% and 90% of the support? Is it really the best thing for hearts to go into another season just waiting for the failure. 
 

or should we just cut to the chase. Fast forward and skip the inevitable. The club is going to end up tearing itself apart again becuase we just can’t make normal football decisions based on normal football logic. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Kirky Jambo]

I’m genuinely astounded anyone feels positive about the future with Neilson in charge. I can give the pundits like Michael Stewart and Chris Sutton a pass because they dont actually watch us week to week, but genuine and passionate hearts fans must surely have sussed him out by now.

 

Just look at his career, everywhere he has gone his record has been ok on the face of it, but I reckon you would struggle to find a fan anywhere who has ever been gutted when he left them, mainly because he was clearly not improving things, in fact he had been found out by other managers and results and performances were tailing off.

 

People mention Hibs and Celtic this season. We shaved past Hibs (who aren’t great let’s be honest) and Celtic were in crisis mode and still beat us. Since when did that equal roaring success. The truth is the cup was there for the taking and we failed, and it’s a very Neilsonesque mentality to point to it as a positive. 
 

All about opinions but personally I desperately hope the club has been listening and has someone else lined up. Sadly I suspect it’s not the case.

[suds66]

6 hours ago, David Black said:

Me too, this has gone beyond just RN.

Agree, has to be significant change from top to bottom.

[JimmyCant]

10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Nonesense. 

Lots of fans will. 

Lots of fans already have. 

 

A select few won't forget about past results, most will move forward whoever the manager is. 

 

I’d put you right up there in the unreserved loyalty spectrum which is fine, each to their own and you backed every single one of the Budge managers to the last breath. Again fair enough. But you can’t seriously be suggested that some people (at your end of the spectrum) have forgotten Brora. The worst result in the entire history of the club and it’s not even a debate its so far ahead in its worseness and people have forgotten it ? I’m just not having that mate.
 

Call it what you like, a blip, a bad day at the office, whatever else he feeds the media for people like you to lap up. For me it’s symptomatic and just one of several pieces of compelling evidence which dictates he has to go.

 

No problem for you and the like I imagine seeing as how you forget things so easily and the next guy who can do no wrong will be along to feed you shortly. You never know, he might actually be good and we can all get aboard, it’d be about time. Have we had a manager lately with a consistent rating much above 50% ?

[Kiwidoug]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

In the space of 6 months, hearts lost or drew with.

 

Dunfermline * 2

Alloa

Queen of the south * 2

Morton

Alloa

Arbroath

Dundee

Brora Rangers 

Inverness

Raith Rovers 

 

we dropped points to these diddy teams in then capped it off with a loss to Brora Rangers in the Scottish cup.

 

an absolute embarrassment. Neilson should be ashamed of that record 

 

Thanks for your research.  That is truly awful.  I suppose we're supposed to put it all behind us now because we won the league by scoring 6 against Alloa.

 

I think our Annie is going to find selling season tickets a tough ask as long as her and neilson are still around.

[Allowayjambo1874]

8 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hibs and Celtic aside this season Neilson's been a very poor cup manager and that needs to change. If that Brora result doesn't give him the kick up the arse he needs to take the cups more seriously, nothing will. Neilson is, however, strong in the league with us. And the league is usually what Hearts managers get judged on at the end of the day.

 

On the flip side in between Neilson's stints, Levein and Stendel got pretty good cup results but were shit in the league. Cathro was shit in the cup and the league. It's going to be extremely tough to find a manager who has us doing well in the cups and league (even Burley got pumped out the LC by Livingston), especially one who sees their predecessor getting punted after delivering the title he was hired to deliver because of fan protests. I can't be the only person concerned fan power is being taken too far here.

 

The recent Scotsman article about the media having a go at fans protesting was so far off the mark it's unreal - comparing our situation to two long serving managers was ridiculous. McInnes and Lennon both had numerous embarrassing results before the protests started. McInnes getting owned by Gary Locke's teenagers in several games in 13/14 has to be as embarrassing as it gets, for example.

Although I disagree with your stance it’s refreshing to engage with someone who has an opposite view from the majority. 
 

Out of interest can you understand why people want RN out? You quote Levein and Cathro, two managers who were given too much time in the job before the inevitable and basically we threw away seasons due to an inability to make the hard decision to get rid. There is a fear for most that we are sleepwalking into the same situation.

 

Also do you think RN has actually attained the basic requirements of a head coach? Has he improved any players, introduced youth or has a good tactical nouse? Given the resources at his disposal and the opposition we have faced where would you rate his performance? 
 

Be interested on your take. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

P 24 | W 15 | D 5 | L 4 | GD +32 

 

I mean ok, it’s not an unbeaten season but it’s not that bad. It’s not “worst manager of all time” levels. 
 

Nobody is saying the cup loss has been made amends for. Nor the demotion. Medicine needs handed out and the fans are seething we’ve blundered the chance to do it in the cups this year. Cup performance was shocking. But People keep saying the league title was the minimum. So... he has actually achieved the minimum then? Unlike the last 3 managers. So just take the win and move on. Seasons over.
 

If this season was a game, it was a narrow 1-0  win. But a wins a win. 

[The Treasurer]

9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And what happens if we finish 3rd next year but get pumped out the cups by Diddy teams? Sack the next guy? Managers need more than 6 months and they shouldn't get sacked for one bad result, whether it's the worst in your history or not. Personally I remember being more upset getting beat 6-2 by Hibs under JJ. Stendel gets defended to then hilt on here by most of the people on here who want Neilson out and he was responsible for the single most damaging result in our recent history. 

Like the media, you wrongly seem to think the fans are angry about one result.

It goes much much further than that. Brora was merely the final straw

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Like the media, you wrongly seem to think the fans are angry about one result.

It goes much much further than that. Brora was merely the final straw

That 6-2 v hibs...we had Flogel at right back, Fulton st left back, James in centre defence and Petric in midfield. They had guys like Latapy and Sauzee at their best that time as well. 

It was bad but there were at least mitigating circumstances. 

Even if we did just base it on one result, the Brora game was sackable. Non league, hadn’t played for 80 days and they deserved to beat us - it’s not as if their keeper played a blinder. The fact this is being glossed over is ridiculous. 
 

But almost worse has been the clubs reaction to it on and off the pitch. Weakly burying heads in the sand. 

 

[Hashimoto]

22 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

P 24 | W 15 | D 5 | L 4 | GD +32 

 

I mean ok, it’s not an unbeaten season but it’s not that bad. It’s not “worst manager of all time” levels. 
 

Nobody is saying the cup loss has been made amends for. Nor the demotion. Medicine needs handed out and the fans are seething we’ve blundered the chance to do it in the cups this year. Cup performance was shocking. But People keep saying the league title was the minimum. So... he has actually achieved the minimum then? Unlike the last 3 managers. So just take the win and move on. Seasons over.
 

If this season was a game, it was a narrow 1-0  win. But a wins a win. 

Fair enough!....However, it does look like you're trying to put a positive spin and what has been another meh season of football.
This is yet another case of using statistics to disguise the real issues and malaise at HMFC.

The league title this year should have been and was a cakewalk as predicted. Well done Robbie!
However, the manner in which we won the league raised more question than answers. The players and team as a whole clearly regressed as the season went on. The opportunity was there to play with authority and set the stamp on what the future could look like with Neilson calling the shots!
However, he failed, and failed badly to convince a very large portion of the support that he had the football nuance to build a team of strength, or a team for the future.

His summer signings on the whole have been a disaster. Good players because very ordinary. Good players with a bit pedigree (GMS) suddenly looked like they had never played the game! Roberts goes out on loan to Motherwell and looks like a totally different player.

Protests on the plaza!

And I haven't even touched on the worst defeat in the history of the club, let alone the Alloa debacle!  

Yes, statistics will show that the league was won.....But let's admit that they disguise a whole myriad of issues at the club just now.

For me the final score for the season is a limp 1-1 draw with both teams happy to get off the pitch!

Neilson Out
 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I’d put you right up there in the unreserved loyalty spectrum which is fine, each to their own and you backed every single one of the Budge managers to the last breath. Again fair enough. But you can’t seriously be suggested that some people (at your end of the spectrum) have forgotten Brora. The worst result in the entire history of the club and it’s not even a debate its so far ahead in its worseness and people have forgotten it ? I’m just not having that mate.
 

Call it what you like, a blip, a bad day at the office, whatever else he feeds the media for people like you to lap up. For me it’s symptomatic and just one of several pieces of compelling evidence which dictates he has to go.

 

No problem for you and the like I imagine seeing as how you forget things so easily and the next guy who can do no wrong will be along to feed you shortly. You never know, he might actually be good and we can all get aboard, it’d be about time. Have we had a manager lately with a consistent rating much above 50% ?

 

 

By forget, I mean I'll move on. 

 

Brora has no impact on how we'll perform next season, just like beating hibs and drawing with celtic over 120 will have no impact either 

 

Brora was terrible. 

If he's sacked, then so be it. 

If he's not, then no point on going on about it, we have promotion secured and we move forward. 

 

I'll generally back every Hearts manager while they are managing Hearts.

 

[leginten]

29 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Fair enough!....However, it does look like you're trying to put a positive spin and what has been another meh season of football.
This is yet another case of using statistics to disguise the real issues and malaise at HMFC.

The league title this year should have been and was a cakewalk as predicted. Well done Robbie!
However, the manner in which we won the league raised more question than answers. The players and team as a whole clearly regressed as the season went on. The opportunity was there to play with authority and set the stamp on what the future could look like with Neilson calling the shots!
However, he failed, and failed badly to convince a very large portion of the support that he had the football nuance to build a team of strength, or a team for the future.

His summer signings on the whole have been a disaster. Good players because very ordinary. Good players with a bit pedigree (GMS) suddenly looked like they had never played the game! Roberts goes out on loan to Motherwell and looks like a totally different player.

Protests on the plaza!

And I haven't even touched on the worst defeat in the history of the club, let alone the Alloa debacle!  

Yes, statistics will show that the league was won.....But let's admit that they disguise a whole myriad of issues at the club just now.

For me the final score for the season is a limp 1-1 draw with both teams happy to get off the pitch!

Neilson Out
 

Not the worst result in the club’s history, according to some of the more dubious characters on here. I suppose if you change the definition of ‘worst’ so that it means something completely different, they could be on to something.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

28 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Fair enough!....However, it does look like you're trying to put a positive spin and what has been another meh season of football.
This is yet another case of using statistics to disguise the real issues and malaise at HMFC.

The league title this year should have been and was a cakewalk as predicted. Well done Robbie!
However, the manner in which we won the league raised more question than answers. The players and team as a whole clearly regressed as the season went on. The opportunity was there to play with authority and set the stamp on what the future could look like with Neilson calling the shots!
However, he failed, and failed badly to convince a very large portion of the support that he had the football nuance to build a team of strength, or a team for the future.

His summer signings on the whole have been a disaster. Good players because very ordinary. Good players with a bit pedigree (GMS) suddenly looked like they had never played the game! Roberts goes out on loan to Motherwell and looks like a totally different player.

Protests on the plaza!

And I haven't even touched on the worst defeat in the history of the club, let alone the Alloa debacle!  

Yes, statistics will show that the league was won.....But let's admit that they disguise a whole myriad of issues at the club just now.

For me the final score for the season is a limp 1-1 draw with both teams happy to get off the pitch!

Neilson Out
 

 I’m talking about the outcome of the season which was literally a win. We have won a game we were expected to win, but it’s 1-0 and wasn’t a great performance. It’s not a draw. It’s not going to extra time. It’s over, we’ve won. We’ve cobbled together a title win from the ashes of a team that had an eye watering 10% win percentage from the prior 18 months starting around Novermber 2018, Levein-Stendel death spiral so all talk of a “cakewalk” was absolute pish, there was a job to do with that squad that insipidly came down and got 2 managers sacked, and that jobs been done. Now there’s a job to do on the squad that’s gone up. Neilson will get his chance to do it. So no it’s not a “positive spin” I’m not especially overjoyed with it, it’s just the results. So will move on now to a summer of beer gardens, Euros and Hearts back in the premier. The pressure from the fans will be intense so let’s hope that produces some sparks. 

[S Form]

11 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 I’m talking about the outcome of the season which was literally a win. We have won a game we were expected to win, but it’s 1-0 and wasn’t a great performance. It’s not a draw. It’s not going to extra time. It’s over, we’ve won. We’ve cobbled together a title win from the ashes of a team that had an eye watering 10% win percentage from the prior 18 months starting around Novermber 2018, Levein-Stendel death spiral so all talk of a “cakewalk” was absolute pish, there was a job to do with that squad that insipidly came down and got 2 managers sacked, and that jobs been done. Now there’s a job to do on the squad that’s gone up. Neilson will get his chance to do it. So no it’s not a “positive spin” I’m not especially overjoyed with it, it’s just the results. So will move on now to a summer of beer gardens, Euros and Hearts back in the premier. The pressure from the fans will be intense so let’s hope that produces some sparks. 

A very reasonable viewpoint.

[Hashimoto]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 I’m talking about the outcome of the season which was literally a win. We have won a game we were expected to win, but it’s 1-0 and wasn’t a great performance. It’s not a draw. It’s not going to extra time. It’s over, we’ve won. We’ve cobbled together a title win from the ashes of a team that had an eye watering 10% win percentage from the prior 18 months starting around Novermber 2018, Levein-Stendel death spiral so all talk of a “cakewalk” was absolute pish, there was a job to do with that squad that insipidly came down and got 2 managers sacked, and that jobs been done. Now there’s a job to do on the squad that’s gone up. Neilson will get his chance to do it. So no it’s not a “positive spin” I’m not especially overjoyed with it, it’s just the results. So will move on now to a summer of beer gardens, Euros and Hearts back in the premier. The pressure from the fans will be intense so let’s hope that produces some sparks. 

I'm glad you think the job got done! and honestly I'm not having a dig. I understand the logic to your argument. I just feel that this past season has raised more questions than answers!

The bottom line in the only poll available to us, and the only measurable that we have is that c75% want Neilson gone from the club. Hardly a ring endorsement for someone who has fulfilled and met the targets set for him!
(And for the record not all of those 75% are foamers or just simply anti Neilson, just simply Hearts fans who, like me have giant reservations about Neilson's credentials) 

Fair to also say that last season most definitely wasn't an even playing field!.....We were in the championship, playing against by the very nature of that league, inferior opposition, size of budget, part timers....etc!. So to talk about a 10% win average, albeit correct is again just using a stat to benefit an argument.

And IMO the job's not been done, the job is just beginning! However, it's a big job and I like many others just doesn't think that Neilson is the man take undertake this large task.   

But, like you I also look forward to beer gardens, Euros's and Hearts being back in their rightful place.
If Neilson hasn't been relieved of his duties I think we can expect a prolonged period of discontent amongst the support. It's certainly not the way to plan for a fresh assault on the Premiership.

[HighTimes]

27 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

I'm glad you think the job got done! and honestly I'm not having a dig. I understand the logic to your argument. I just feel that this past season has raised more questions than answers!

The bottom line in the only poll available to us, and the only measurable that we have is that c75% want Neilson gone from the club. Hardly a ring endorsement for someone who has fulfilled and met the targets set for him!
(And for the record not all of those 75% are foamers or just simply anti Neilson, just simply Hearts fans who, like me have giant reservations about Neilson's credentials) 

Fair to also say that last season most definitely wasn't an even playing field!.....We were in the championship, playing against by the very nature of that league, inferior opposition, size of budget, part timers....etc!. So to talk about a 10% win average, albeit correct is again just using a stat to benefit an argument.

And IMO the job's not been done, the job is just beginning! However, it's a big job and I like many others just doesn't think that Neilson is the man take undertake this large task.   

But, like you I also look forward to beer gardens, Euros's and Hearts being back in their rightful place.
If Neilson hasn't been relieved of his duties I think we can expect a prolonged period of discontent amongst the support. It's certainly not the way to plan for a fresh assault on the Premiership.

 

Decent reply to a decent post - good to see some actual sensible conversation on here, rather than just accusations of hoboism being thrown around.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

By forget, I mean I'll move on. 

 

Brora has no impact on how we'll perform next season, just like beating hibs and drawing with celtic over 120 will have no impact either 

 

Brora was terrible. 

If he's sacked, then so be it. 

If he's not, then no point on going on about it, we have promotion secured and we move forward. 

 

I'll generally back every Hearts manager while they are managing Hearts.

 

It’s not just Brora as I said. That was just the highlight. From 20 odd games this season I think I’ve seen 4 maybe 5 that might indicate we’ll be okay next season and by okay I mean surviving. 
 

This season had 2 targets. One was going back up so tick that box and 2 was to start get the club into recovery and get it in better nick for next season. I’ve not see any evidence of that and Neilson can no longer be trusted during a transfer window, especially one as vital as this coming one 

 

i don’t think anything we’ve done this season will have an impact on next season and that’s a missed opportunity IMO. For starters there was a chance to get some youngsters into the team and give them plenty game time. Not one up coming academy player has played for Hearts for a single minute this season. No attempt made whatsoever to develop youth in a perfect league for it. We are no better now than we were when we hit bottom of the league last year

Edited April 13, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Gav M]

someone asked what players people thought that Neilson helped improve?

only one I can think of is Roberts, and that's only because he let him go else where!

can't think of any player who has shown continued improvement under Neilson, and with the squad we have (13 of which he brought in) that is a shocking realisation.

this season should have been about building a spine for next, although he seems to have tried that, he has failed miserably.

it can be pointed out that he was working under the shadow of a pandemic and that attracting the quality of players required wasn't possible. yet, he did manage to attract, on paper, a good core of players who should be capable of doing well in the premiership next season. added to those we already had then we should have been far more comfortable across the season, even if not playing well our results should have been more indicative of the squad we have. 1 or 2 sub par performances and results is expected and understandable, but for that to be our standard for the entire season I unforgivable.

yes the players may have let him down, it's his job to sort this. he stuck with those very same players week in week out (barring a couple), refused to take out senior players who were awful at times in favour of youngsters who would at least provide energy (see Henderson on friday).

his constant tweaking of formation and playing players out of position made things worse. he brought in 13 players, he should have had an idea of what formation he was playing and what personnel he had in the positions required. if he didn't, was he just bringing in numbers in the hope that something might work? that's just criminal.

I wanted him to succeed, part of me still does, there is nothing there to suggest that he will though.

there was someone saying that the way we played and our results this season will have no bearing on next?

yes it does, this season is a bench mark for what will follow, it indicates how he will recruit, how he will try and set up (or just draw names out of a hat), how he will try and get the team to play. it also shows that despite bringing in his own players, he doesn't know what to do with the tactically, he will play them out of position, he will give senior players presidence over youngsters despite how badly they are playing, he will make bizarre subs at weird times, it shows he doesn't know how to change a game if things aren't going right. tactics, formations, personnel out of position, substitutions. getting some of these wrong some of the time is excusable, most of them wrong most of the time is unacceptable at any level, never mind at ours!

how can any of this bode well for next season? the tone has been set, the intro chapter written, and the foundation it has set for the rest of the story (if it continues) is shocking and haphazard at best.

 

apologies for the rant, I'll Leave it there

 

G

[Cruickie's Moustache]

Said it elsewhere, the Hearts Manager/Coach should have three performance indicators year in year out.

 

1) Third or better in the Premiership

2) At least Semi Final of Scottish Cup

3) At least Semi Final of League Cup

 

Can't do anything about 1) this season but totally failed on 2) & 3) and worryingly against opposition we should have pumped. 

 

Each step you are away from any of the above means you are in danger of the sack.

 

It really should be that simple.

 

The secondary indicator should be the ability to bring on young players through our academy.

 

Clearly you have to make allowances if you get a top premiership side in the earlier rounds of the cups and trying to get a balance between winning and developing youngsters.

 

However getting dumped out the cups by lesser opposition and not improving the performance of the team (youngsters and experienced pros alike), while apparently unable to find a winning formation and playing players out of position is not a good look.

 

RN still has a lot to do to turn things around in terms of convincing folks he is up to the job when in the Premiership.

[Cade]

Those three conditions are very optimistic.

Two cup semis and a Europe spot in the league every year or the manage is oot?

That's better than most of our "best ever" seasons.

 

With our wage bill, we should be aiming high but ffs calm doon a bit.

[Berra than you]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Those three conditions are very optimistic.

Two cup semis and a Europe spot in the league every year or the manage is oot?

That's better than most of our "best ever" seasons.

 

With our wage bill, we should be aiming high but ffs calm doon a bit.

I would say top 4 and at least quarters in both cups. Obviously there is wiggle room, i.e knocked out league cup before quarters, but reach Scottish cup final, or fifth in the league hit win a trophy. It's not black and white but I would say 4th is realistic. Finish outside that by a distance with nothing doing in the cup comps, then that's when the manager is on trouble.

[brux]

3 hours ago, Hashimoto said:

Fair enough!....However, it does look like you're trying to put a positive spin and what has been another meh season of football.
This is yet another case of using statistics to disguise the real issues and malaise at HMFC.

The league title this year should have been and was a cakewalk as predicted. Well done Robbie!
However, the manner in which we won the league raised more question than answers. The players and team as a whole clearly regressed as the season went on. The opportunity was there to play with authority and set the stamp on what the future could look like with Neilson calling the shots!
However, he failed, and failed badly to convince a very large portion of the support that he had the football nuance to build a team of strength, or a team for the future.

His summer signings on the whole have been a disaster. Good players because very ordinary. Good players with a bit pedigree (GMS) suddenly looked like they had never played the game! Roberts goes out on loan to Motherwell and looks like a totally different player.

Protests on the plaza!

And I haven't even touched on the worst defeat in the history of the club, let alone the Alloa debacle!  

Yes, statistics will show that the league was won.....But let's admit that they disguise a whole myriad of issues at the club just now.

For me the final score for the season is a limp 1-1 draw with both teams happy to get off the pitch!

Neilson Out
 

Well said

[Nookie Bear]

Never convinced about targets that are so specific in football where you can be knocked out the cups to dodgy refereeing decisions or even end up being drawn away at the old firm early doors. 
 

Even the league is difficult. 3rd place should be our aim but if someone else has an equally decent season...?

 

I just feel the Board should ‘know’ when a club is moving in the right direction. They should see the team being developed, youth being introduced properly, players sold being replaced with better etc etc

 

Its not an exact science. 

[Berra than you]

8 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never convinced about targets that are so specific in football where you can be knocked out the cups to dodgy refereeing decisions or even end up being drawn away at the old firm early doors. 
 

Even the league is difficult. 3rd place should be our aim but if someone else has an equally decent season...?

 

I just feel the Board should ‘know’ when a club is moving in the right direction. They should see the team being developed, youth being introduced properly, players sold being replaced with better etc etc

 

Its not an exact science. 

This is a what I was trying to get at in my post, much better put by you.

[jr ewing]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

Those three conditions are very optimistic.

Two cup semis and a Europe spot in the league every year or the manage is oot?

That's better than most of our "best ever" seasons.

 

With our wage bill, we should be aiming high but ffs calm doon a bit.

Two out of three ain't bad.