GinRummy Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Captain Canada said: Time for both parties to move on I think. There's no real difference to the side whether he's in it or not. The increased pace and physicality of the top flight won't help him next season either. He's definitely talented but still got a lot to work on. I think playing abroad would suit him better. Might suit him better but wouldn’t suit us better. Get him beside a proper defensive mid next season to get him a wee, tiny bit more time on the ball and he will flourish. I think he does need to deal with the physical side a bit better but compared to last season, I believe he already is. At his age there is every reason to think he’ll continue to improve on that front. Edited March 12, 2021 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatlock Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I think Scott Wilson should play the should I stay or should I go and please please me on a loop before every match until he decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stendelnator Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I’m not ITK by any means but I was told by someone familiar with the situation that he’d made his mind up to go abroad back in January. I think if he really wanted to stay he’d have signed by now. We don’t tend to do public negotiations like this. Smith and Kingsley both extended with hardly a peep in the paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Stendelnator said: I’m not ITK by any means but I was told by someone familiar with the situation that he’d made his mind up to go abroad back in January. I think if he really wanted to stay he’d have signed by now. We don’t tend to do public negotiations like this. Smith and Kingsley both extended with hardly a peep in the paper. If he has then good luck to him, and I think if I was in his situation I would do the same. No doubt he is in contact with Hickey and there are others out in Italy doing well. Travel, life experince, learning new languages, sunshine, lifestyle, why would any young guy with his head screwed on not do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Neilson also offered an update on contract talks with Hearts midfielder Andy Irving. “We've offered Andy a contract and we're still waiting to hear back from the agent and the player. “We think it's a good offer and hopefully he will accept. Andy is still performing on a Saturday so, from my perspective, that's the most important thing for him. He's shown a maturity to concentrate on training and games. Hopefully we will come to an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattie exploited Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Newton51 said: Neilson also offered an update on contract talks with Hearts midfielder Andy Irving. “We've offered Andy a contract and we're still waiting to hear back from the agent and the player. “We think it's a good offer and hopefully he will accept. Andy is still performing on a Saturday so, from my perspective, that's the most important thing for him. He's shown a maturity to concentrate on training and games. Hopefully we will come to an agreement. should give Harry Cochrane and Connar Smith a chance if Irvine isnt going to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperstarSteve Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, wattie exploited said: should give Harry Cochrane and Connar Smith a chance if Irvine isnt going to stay Cochrane is out of contract in less than 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattie exploited Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 7 hours ago, SuperstarSteve said: Cochrane is out of contract in less than 2 months. am sure i read somewhere hearts were going to perhaps extend his contract 6 months because of covid but I might be wrong in that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 15 hours ago, Newton51 said: Neilson also offered an update on contract talks with Hearts midfielder Andy Irving. “We've offered Andy a contract and we're still waiting to hear back from the agent and the player. “We think it's a good offer and hopefully he will accept. Andy is still performing on a Saturday so, from my perspective, that's the most important thing for him. He's shown a maturity to concentrate on training and games. Hopefully we will come to an agreement. This can't be right. We were assured, by another poster, that we had not offered Irving another contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skacelsid Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 His first touch and control is excellent, can pick a pass, great balls skills, a bit of a Jim Baxter, (even Lee Makel) type. However the modern player needs more to his game. IMO. A higher level in a different country might suit, as I do not think the Scottish prem. would. The safe passing coaching at our club has not helped his development. If he does not accept our deal we move on. Watched Regan Hendry at Raith last night, similar attributes but drives forward with pace and carries the ball from defence to attack. 23 years old would not break the bank, seen him a few times, Edinburgh boy and a better player IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMJ_1874 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 He’s been offered exactly 50% of what his agent is looking for plus there’s conditions to the contract asked for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 32 minutes ago, SMJ_1874 said: He’s been offered exactly 50% of what his agent is looking for plus there’s conditions to the contract asked for How much is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Barack said: Less than Naismith, more than me. Good. Starting to narrow it down 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Dale Cooper Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I remember reading an article last season, saying we were going to return to a "lower basic, higher bonus" pay structure, incentivising stronger performance. Perhaps Irving's negotiations are the first sign of attempting to implement that? Very difficult to bed in that change, as the first few players/agents will feel like they are being undervalued in comparison to their peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGorgie Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 He’s not going to sign if he’s been given a poor offer if those ITK are correct. Time to move on and accept that it isn’t going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMJ_1874 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 23 minutes ago, GinRummy said: How much is that? It’s not just the money he’s after, it’s the conditions attached to the ‘requirements’ his agent has asked for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, OldGorgie said: He’s not going to sign if he’s been given a poor offer if those ITK are correct. Time to move on and accept that it isn’t going to happen. There are a lot of itk saying different things. Some slightly different, some vastly different. The information or misinformation out there (not just on KB) make it fairly hard to work out what’s going on. Strange with all the itk stuff, presumably from different sources, that nobody has come up with numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, SMJ_1874 said: It’s not just the money he’s after, it’s the conditions attached to the ‘requirements’ his agent has asked for What are the conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, SMJ_1874 said: It’s not just the money he’s after, it’s the conditions attached to the ‘requirements’ his agent has asked for Are these sensible and possible or of the 'helicopter stuffed with white tiger cubs' variety? Much as he is a talent and purported to be 'one of our own' I have to say this all feels a bit prima donna to me and more than a little tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxfee Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, GinRummy said: There are a lot of itk saying different things. Some slightly different, some vastly different. The information or misinformation out there (not just on KB) make it fairly hard to work out what’s going on. Strange with all the itk stuff, presumably from different sources, that nobody has come up with numbers. Absolutely no one on here is in the know. Just 34 pages of opinion and made up nonsense. Lockdown has a lot to answer for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo-in-furness Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Baxfee said: Absolutely no one on here is in the know. Just 34 pages of opinion and made up nonsense. Lockdown has a lot to answer for! Aye, before lockdown we were as one. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbet Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 At the end of the day, irrespective of what his agent says, irving will decide what he wants to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Sherbet said: At the end of the day, irrespective of what his agent says, irving will decide what he wants to do Arrivederci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveinthedream Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 heard hes signing for aberdeen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Leveinthedream said: heard hes signing for aberdeen... Honestly no manager but they sign him unbelievable, organically incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Reynolds Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Most assists in the championship now I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Leveinthedream said: heard hes signing for aberdeen... 38 posts, earliest ikt expert yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Good delivery for the opener today but once again didn't really stand out. There's bits of a good player in there but he is a long way from the finished article. The harsh truth is he will not develop further as a player under the coaching staff at the club and for his own sake he should leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, LMc said: Most assists in the championship now I believe Pub league!!! Am I doing that right? 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jodami said: Good delivery for the opener today but once again didn't really stand out. There's bits of a good player in there but he is a long way from the finished article. The harsh truth is he will not develop further as a player under the coaching staff at the club and for his own sake he should leave. The coaching staff who have been here how long? Tell us all about the mistakes they are making with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, GinRummy said: The coaching staff who have been here how long? Tell us all about the mistakes they are making with him. All the positive aspects to his game are inherent - passing, set piece delivery, clean way he strikes a shot. The elements that need developed, notably fitness, moving the ball quicker and game awareness, particularly defensively, are unchanged. You would have thought that playing at a lower level would have been the ideal time to work on those but there is no evidence of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Jodami said: All the positive aspects to his game are inherent - passing, set piece delivery, clean way he strikes a shot. The elements that need developed, notably fitness, moving the ball quicker and game awareness, particularly defensively, are unchanged. You would have thought that playing at a lower level would have been the ideal time to work on those but there is no evidence of that. Game awareness is fair comment but he looks fit to me. Certainly fitter than he did last season. The defensive side of his game is weak but it has improved and not just slightly either. Whether it’s improved enough is another matter. Surely Lee McCulloch can pass on good tips on defensive midfield play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Game awareness is fair comment but he looks fit to me. Certainly fitter than he did last season. The defensive side of his game is weak but it has improved and not just slightly either. Whether it’s improved enough is another matter. Surely Lee McCulloch can pass on good tips on defensive midfield play. I still think he is prone to getting caught in possession in dangerous situations when pressured. I am not sure whether it is general fitness or just the fact he is slow but players run off him and by him. There have been several times when he has taken bookings by pulling a player down rather than match the run. That is generally the kind of card you see 30 somethings take late in their career. So much of football now is about being dynamic and moving the ball quicker and he needs more of that. The deliberate pedestrian way we play doesn't suggest a coaching team who are going to improve him along those lines. I wish there was more evidence we had people in place who could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jodami said: I still think he is prone to getting caught in possession in dangerous situations when pressured. I am not sure whether it is general fitness or just the fact he is slow but players run off him and by him. There have been several times when he has taken bookings by pulling a player down rather than match the run. That is generally the kind of card you see 30 somethings take late in their career. So much of football now is about being dynamic and moving the ball quicker and he needs more of that. The deliberate pedestrian way we play doesn't suggest a coaching team who are going to improve him along those lines. I wish there was more evidence we had people in place who could. I can’t disagree entirely because I get annoyed at how slow and ‘patient’ we seem to be. Particularly while going from defence to attack. I do think that suits Irving though. He’s neither fast or particularly quick to act at times. I honestly think he’s just a player who needs more time on the ball to be at his best. No amount of coaching is going to give him that in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctc Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 He was our best player today.if anyone disagrees tell me who was better.He takes responsibility on the ball he doesn't take the easy way out it wasn't till walker came on that there was a bit of life and desire about the team which makes it a bit easier for Irvine to find pockets that some of our players couldn't dream about maybe he would be better doing what Halliday does and just takes the easy way out and knock it backwards and sideways.At last we have a player who can control and pass a ball and have we clowns on hear looking for faults.We have a proper player here.Anyone who can't see that is maybe watching the wrong sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Lovely touches today and a couple of good passes, played well. His first touch a few times in the middle was exquisite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, GinRummy said: I can’t disagree entirely because I get annoyed at how slow and ‘patient’ we seem to be. Particularly while going from defence to attack. I do think that suits Irving though. He’s neither fast or particularly quick to act at times. I honestly think he’s just a player who needs more time on the ball to be at his best. No amount of coaching is going to give him that in this country. It's something we should really be trying to work on because he clearly has talent. Unless he develops he will never be effective at a higher level. It's part of a general frustration in recent years, very often we have talented younger players who have been quite intensively coached through the age groups but when they get to the first team that stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, ctc said: He was our best player today.if anyone disagrees tell me who was better.He takes responsibility on the ball he doesn't take the easy way out it wasn't till walker came on that there was a bit of life and desire about the team which makes it a bit easier for Irvine to find pockets that some of our players couldn't dream about maybe he would be better doing what Halliday does and just takes the easy way out and knock it backwards and sideways.At last we have a player who can control and pass a ball and have we clowns on hear looking for faults.We have a proper player here.Anyone who can't see that is maybe watching the wrong sport. 👍 He gets caught because players aren't moving for him. You can see that before he gets the ball he looks to see who is available. Unfortunately a lot of the time there isn't anyone. Always thought that if we are now paying a low basic Irvine would probably move on. Hope not he is definitely one we should keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Jodami said: It's something we should really be trying to work on because he clearly has talent. Unless he develops he will never be effective at a higher level. It's part of a general frustration in recent years, very often we have talented younger players who have been quite intensively coached through the age groups but when they get to the first team that stops. Agreed. It’s been very frustrating watching young guys make a few appearances then disappear. I just don’t think any amount of coaching is going to get Irving to do what we want him to, ie gain a yard of pace and act quicker when he’s under pressure. As I said earlier, the defensive part of his game has improved bit still needs to be improved more, that’s something that can be worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Agreed. It’s been very frustrating watching young guys make a few appearances then disappear. I just don’t think any amount of coaching is going to get Irving to do what we want him to, ie gain a yard of pace and act quicker when he’s under pressure. As I said earlier, the defensive part of his game has improved bit still needs to be improved more, that’s something that can be worked on. You could be right. It's an interesting one though. If you consider that Irving has the same natural attributes as Adam for instance some managers have built teams around that type of player's strengths. It needs the right formation and supporting midfielders but it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Form Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, ctc said: He was our best player today.if anyone disagrees tell me who was better.He takes responsibility on the ball he doesn't take the easy way out it wasn't till walker came on that there was a bit of life and desire about the team which makes it a bit easier for Irvine to find pockets that some of our players couldn't dream about maybe he would be better doing what Halliday does and just takes the easy way out and knock it backwards and sideways.At last we have a player who can control and pass a ball and have we clowns on hear looking for faults.We have a proper player here.Anyone who can't see that is maybe watching the wrong sport. You’re bang on. People looking for faults are unbelievable. Irving not only crossed for the opener but played a great little pass to Walker to create the opening for the second. Folk criticise him for being ‘slow’ should watch him when he receives the ball - he invariably looks up immediately to see what’s available. Usually there’s very little but, instead of lumping the ball anyway, he keeps hold of it and makes sure we keep possession, which any footballer with half a brain should do. If we let him go it will be a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattie exploited Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 he is definitely our best midfield player by a country mile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Jodami said: You could be right. It's an interesting one though. If you consider that Irving has the same natural attributes as Adam for instance some managers have built teams around that type of player's strengths. It needs the right formation and supporting midfielders but it can be done. That I do agree with. You either play to his strengths or you don’t. With his passing ability you could easily build a team around him and his confidence would soar and he’d get more goals as well. Bang in the middle of the park with a grunt to do his donkey work would bring the best out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, ctc said: He was our best player today.if anyone disagrees tell me who was better.He takes responsibility on the ball he doesn't take the easy way out it wasn't till walker came on that there was a bit of life and desire about the team which makes it a bit easier for Irvine to find pockets that some of our players couldn't dream about maybe he would be better doing what Halliday does and just takes the easy way out and knock it backwards and sideways.At last we have a player who can control and pass a ball and have we clowns on hear looking for faults.We have a proper player here.Anyone who can't see that is maybe watching the wrong sport. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Not nearly enough movement as a team to help get the most of what he’s best at. Too much chopping and changing for the players to build proper understanding. Too many static players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Reynolds Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, davemclaren said: Pub league!!! Am I doing that right? 😄 I expected better.... Found his level obviously 🙄 😉 He's a great young player who I think we should be keeping hold of for a while. Edited March 13, 2021 by LMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthomas Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Jodami said: It's something we should really be trying to work on because he clearly has talent. Unless he develops he will never be effective at a higher level. It's part of a general frustration in recent years, very often we have talented younger players who have been quite intensively coached through the age groups but when they get to the first team that stops. Another of those knowledgeable , authoritative statements made on here . Never seem to get told how people know these things . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, LMc said: I expected better.... Found his level obviously 🙄 😉 He's a great young player who I think we should be keeping hold of for a while. I think you needed to switch on your irony meter. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky jamboa Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I'd like to keep Irving but it depends how much he's asking for. He "could" turn out good but doesn't control the game enough or contribute with enough goals or assists to be paying big bucks for. It's interesting dario zanatta was on the bench for Ayr today. Another player who looked promising it times but being on their bench says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.