SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[JL47]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:23, Werner Herzog said:

Weirdly, I'd prefer getting relegated this way than playing out the season & it happening on the pitch.

 

If that happens, so be it. It would be grotesquely unfair, but also a huge motivational tool for the coming years. 

 

100% agree, we know how to fight when we are in a corner, funding for legal fight

[David McCaig]

7 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Exactly, if I was a club who was doubtful and wanting reconstruction, I would be looking for concrete assurances, possibly legal ones for a vote in favour.

If reconstruction is deliverable they can agree it over a couple of days, if they can't then you know the proposal was only ever pie in the sky.

[David McCaig]

Just now, Jamboelite said:

Why do we have to have an agreement on ending the league before having one for possible reconstruction?

 

Cant we just do both and agree to call the season and restructure?

 

I wouldnt trust any of the ****ers to agree to the  league is as it stands and relegation applies and then sit down about reconstruction sensibly.

 

Once the league is done and they get their cash they wont give a monkeys.

 

And the playoffs just disappear ?

 

Surely the fact they are apply some rules and not others would work in our favour if taking to CAS.

I just hope that we have the legal case prepared to apply for an immediate injunction to stop any payments being made and that other clubs are made fully aware of this.

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

The only reason that this proposal will go through is financial ie SPFL will release cash to clubs right away. Might be the difference between some clubs surviving or not, who knows. 
From a purely football or sporting integrity perspective Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Livi and Hearts should oppose in top league. Each of them potentially lose out on either titles, uefa places, relegation and definitely prize money as a result of this proposal. 
In the Championship ICT, Dundee, Ayr, Dunfermline Arbroath all miss out on promotion opportunity whilst Thistle are relegated with 9 games left 
In League 1 Falkirk potentially miss out on title and promotion, and Airdrie, Montrose and East Fife miss out on promotion opportunity with Stranraer relegated with 9 games left

In league 2 Edinburgh City, Elgin, Cowdenbeath and Queens Park miss out on promotion opportunity

Lowland and Highland leagues have both Brora and Kelty missing out on promotion opportunity without even having a vote on it. 
 

Seems to me it’s all about money or integrity - which way will it go?  Not holding my breath. 

They will go cash imo.

 

There is a near double (I think) Sky package for next 5 year.  Clubs are more concerned about getting cash in the here and now and with no banking finance available that leaves it to directors to put in funds when their own  businesses may be stretched.

 

Losing out a place here or there can be offset and financial stability balanced from next season.

Edited April 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Footballfirst]

Extract from the statement (the meaningful bit)

 

The SPFL has therefore today circulated a written resolution to its 42 Member Clubs recommending that SPFL clubs approve:

• the immediate termination of Season 2019/20 for the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2, without the remaining fixtures in the League being played;
• all play-off competitions being cancelled; and
• final season placings to be determined by the number of points per game earned by each club in the matches they have played. This would result in the following final divisional tables for Season 2019/20 in the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2:

If approved, this would result in the promotion of Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, and the relegation of Partick Thistle and Stranraer.

 

If the resolution is approved, the SPFL has also committed to consulting with Clubs over the possibility of League restructuring ahead of Season 2020/21.

 

What the SPFL has proposed is a single vote on a number of proposals, together with a carrot of reconstruction if the vote goes through.

There really should be separate votes on:

*   Calling the league now.

*   The method of calculating final positions

*   The determination that there will be promotions and relegations 

*   The cancellation of all play-off games

 

The key one as far as Hearts is concerned is actually the cancellation of the play-off games.  That makes both Hamilton and St Mirren safe, should the Premiership go down the same route, while multiple clubs in lower leagues will be similarly "saved". The clubs losing out on potential play-off opportunities will also be impacted, including those in the Highland and Lowland Leagues.

 

The possibility of talks on reconstruction is a means of getting clubs who will be disadvantaged by the above proposals to actually vote for them.

 

The SPFL Board should be providing more information on their current thinking on reconstruction, so that an informed decision can be made.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Hectormasson]

17 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If they force relegation on us we should quit the SPFL for the English Northern League and work our way up from there.

I said that ages ago ,, wish we would m8,a lot better than this shitty set up for sure   ,,and a lot fairer too!!!   Love to see hearts do something like this,,,,    

[TexasAndy]

I have decided I am not going to get angry about this if the worst does happen.  Our game is run (or ruined) by a bunch of clowns with no vision, drive or direction.  I will be at Tynecastle next season whatever league we are in.  Scottish Football in general can go and do one I only care about Hearts.  

[Jamboelite]

18 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Which court?  People keep saying we will take them to court.  Yet there are no examples of teams doing it.  AB will be looking at all options but my view (which is only a guess) is that she will be agreeing a league one off payment to accept going down.  One up one down - no play offs. All teams compensated.

You seem desperate to say there is no court this can be taken to and i see no reason why you think that.

 

AB seemed to suggest that was the likely outcome and i assume she has better advice.

 

if they were giving comp what would that be ? Enough to cover the cost of being in the Championship for a season ? Thats not sweeties.

[Tokyo Drifter]

Can someone explain this to me: if the plans are approved, why is there any need to consult with clubs about re-configuring the leagues for next season? If it's one in/one out, what is there to re-configure?

[julienbrellier]

21 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If they force relegation on us we should quit the SPFL for the English Northern League and work our way up from there.

 

if this is a possibility, 100% this. Don´t see how it is viable to support this league structure anymore if a decision is made to stitch us up

[julienbrellier]

26 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Which court?  People keep saying we will take them to court.  Yet there are no examples of teams doing it.  AB will be looking at all options but my view (which is only a guess) is that she will be agreeing a league one off payment to accept going down.  One up one down - no play offs. All teams compensated.

 

I guess that is what you´re hoping for. Very similar to when we went into administration. Pathetic sad individual you are coming on here pretending to be a Hearts fan, I pity you.

[slashishere]

I'm sure many of them don't think this way but if I was a Celtic fan I wouldn't be wanting to be crowned champions without it being official.

Imagine if it had been us, what an absolutly shit way to win a league, no celebration, always being questioned as to its validataty.

Same goes for us, if and I say if, we go down, it's not because it was a factual conclusion, it was taken outwith our hands and forced on us.

Frankly I still can't see mass gathering events happening this calendar year so unless games are behind closed doors so sort of reconstruction may well be required next year to deliver any sort of league fixtures.

 

[DETTY29]

Restructure is the carrot go stop Hearts from taking early legal action as the clubs will have agreed phase 1.  And phase 2 (restructuring) is moot.

[kingantti1874]

15 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

The only reason that this proposal will go through is financial ie SPFL will release cash to clubs right away. Might be the difference between some clubs surviving or not, who knows. 
From a purely football or sporting integrity perspective Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Livi and Hearts should oppose in top league. Each of them potentially lose out on either titles, uefa places, relegation and definitely prize money as a result of this proposal. 
In the Championship ICT, Dundee, Ayr, Dunfermline Arbroath all miss out on promotion opportunity whilst Thistle are relegated with 9 games left 
In League 1 Falkirk potentially miss out on title and promotion, and Airdrie, Montrose and East Fife miss out on promotion opportunity with Stranraer relegated with 9 games left

In league 2 Edinburgh City, Elgin, Cowdenbeath and Queens Park miss out on promotion opportunity

Lowland and Highland leagues have both Brora and Kelty missing out on promotion opportunity without even having a vote on it. 
 

Seems to me it’s all about money or integrity - which way will it go?  Not holding my breath. 

no offence but I don’t care if some of these clubs survive, i expect administration rules to be adhered to

[kingantti1874]

18 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Dont go to away games, including in the Championship.

 

Our away crowds v. Hamilton, St. Mirren, Ross County etc.  No brainer for them how to vote.

 

When back in top league same.  For TV games open up all the Tynecastle suites and make second floor a bar.

 

5 and 3 quid entrance fee.

 

Les Gray and Stewart Gilmour notably  get it tight at Tynecastle.

this is the correct thinking.. fans can donate away ticket money to charity or to FOH should they wish to.

 

hopefully some sort of organised response.. I have to say I’m amazed and disappoint led at the number of our fans who seem will to be ****ed over.

[Hans von Luck]

I wont be back at Scottish Football in any sort if this is the case, 100% corrupt run by amateurs.

 

Been a season ticket holder since for 39 years at the Castle, not Hearts fault but finally had enough of the Glasgow SFA Mafia.

[Leveins Battalion]

Would any of us genuinely care about this if Hearts were 4th,5th or 6th in the league?

 

Absolutely not.

 

As much as it seems unfair to be relegated with games still to play would Hearts win the required games anyway?

 

Probably not.

 

I am not going to loose my shit if Hearts go down,we will survive.

 

Hopefully any injustice can get this club its mojo back and fight again.

 

Hearts have everything going for them except a decent team on the pitch,many clubs will not survive this.👍

 

 

[Jamboelite]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

no offence but I don’t care if some of these clubs survive, i expect administration rules to be adhered to

They dont for a force majeur its in the rules.

[Clerry Jambo]

1 minute ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Would any of us genuinely care about this if Hearts were 4th,5th or 6th in the league?

 

Absolutely not.

 

As much as it seems unfair to be relegated with games still to play would Hearts win the required games anyway?

 

Probably not.

 

I am not going to loose my shit if Hearts go down,we will survive.

 

Hopefully any injustice can get this club its mojo back and fight again.

 

Hearts have everything going for them except a decent team on the pitch,many clubs will not survive this.👍

 

 

I’m with you LB, feck the cheating weegies, bite the bullet but make sure we come back stronger and get ourselves sorted out. 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, Hans von Luck said:

I wont be back at Scottish Football in any sort if this is the case, 100% corrupt run by amateurs.

 

Been a season ticket holder since for 39 years at the Castle, not Hearts fault but finally had enough of the Glasgow SFA Mafia.

 

If it transpires that we get relegated then this is where I am, at least I'll have £500 to keep me entertained.

[Nicholas Brody]

34 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If they force relegation on us we should quit the SPFL for the English Northern League and work our way up from there.

 

Great idea m8.

 

 

[Jamboelite]

6 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Would any of us genuinely care about this if Hearts were 4th,5th or 6th in the league?

 

Absolutely not.

 

As much as it seems unfair to be relegated with games still to play would Hearts win the required games anyway?

 

Probably not.

 

I am not going to loose my shit if Hearts go down,we will survive.

 

Hopefully any injustice can get this club its mojo back and fight again.

 

Hearts have everything going for them except a decent team on the pitch,many clubs will not survive this.👍

 

 

But it is us and i do give a shit and with the greatest will in the world your opinion or mine on what might happen in the 8 games is irrelevant. At this point the simple truth is that there are still 8 games to go.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Jamboelite

[RonnieG]

13 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

You seem desperate to say there is no court this can be taken to and i see no reason why you think that.

 

AB seemed to suggest that was the likely outcome and i assume she has better advice.

 

if they were giving comp what would that be ? Enough to cover the cost of being in the Championship for a season ? Thats not sweeties.

I'm far from desperate I just dont think Court is a possibility.  Another poster said Civil court?  Well thats not going to stop the outcome but we would be pushing for a financial penalty against the SPFL.  The decision is up to the member clubs of the SPFL - court just doesnt come into it as far as making that decision is concerned.  There is even people saying Oh yes lets just jump into an english league.... well thats just poppycock.   AB will agree an outcome with the other SPFL clubs. 

[Dagger Is Back]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

🤬 I’ll be utterly apoplectic with rage.. I will not ever set foot in another Scottish football stadium. 

Apart from Tynecastle. If we are relegated it will unify us like nothing else. 

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

x2

X3

[julienbrellier]

Totally against "giving up" on everything whatever happens. Certainly won´t be depriving Hearts of any cash. We should however not attend any away games and hit every other club however we can. we should be mounting a legal challenge to delay, frustrate and perhaps win the battle. I would also be in favour of quitting the spfl if another viavle option is there and I suspect I am not alone.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, RonnieG said:

I'm far from desperate I just dont think Court is a possibility.  Another poster said Civil court?  Well thats not going to stop the outcome but we would be pushing for a financial penalty against the SPFL.  The decision is up to the member clubs of the SPFL - court just doesnt come into it as far as making that decision is concerned.  There is even people saying Oh yes lets just jump into an english league.... well thats just poppycock.   AB will agree an outcome with the other SPFL clubs. 

What do you see that outcome as being?

 

What do you consider fair recompense?

[OTT]

This 'commitment' to 'consulting' on league reconstruction is so watery its actually embarrassing. No. Any carrot needs to be clear as day. The clubs need to understand what league reconstruction they are voting for and that needs to be made clear from the getgo.

 

Self interest rules in Scottish football, so any decision which might come from sport integrity isn't going to happen. I hope Ann is consulting lawyers now in preparation. If she's not prepared to fight it, then step down and allow someone else to. 

[Beast Boy]

Folk saying a couple of clubs should take the hit to protect the majority... aye, okay. They can get ****ed with that idea I’m afraid. HMFC owe these ****ers absolutely nothing. 
 

If we fight the decision with every ounce of energy we have and lose, then I’ll get on with it, but shoulder a massive ****ing grudge.

 

If we just take the hit for a couple of million quid or whatever, and don’t fight it. I’ll be giving serious consideration to the £51 p/m I stick in to FoH.

 

We owe this league nothing and I am not happy with us taking a shafting via relegation through an incomplete fixture list to protect other clubs. If they refuse to reconstruct the leagues to protect their four OF matches. That’s a ****ing suicidal business model from them anyway.

 

Fight this please Budge or start to lose some supporters who have backed you to the hilt until now.

 

 

[Last Laff]

11 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Restructure is the carrot go stop Hearts from taking early legal action as the clubs will have agreed phase 1.  And phase 2 (restructuring) is moot.

would it be shooting ourself in the foot by actually voting in the first place then taking legal action if a vote doesn’t go our way? Seems like a total and utter carve up. 

[Ehllhayapeh]

2 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Shan as fk on Partick while Brechin stranded still the bottom fluke a stay of execution. 

 

Yep. It is.

 

At least reconstruction is on the table.

 

That HAS to be the fairest way out of this. I assume that this vote is to see who will "accept" an "as is" finish with the assumption being if that does not pass, it leads to reconstruction.

 

This is where the age old self interest of teams needs to be set aside for what is fair and reasonable in this situation. 

[Jamboelite]

1 minute ago, RonnieG said:

I'm far from desperate I just dont think Court is a possibility.  Another poster said Civil court?  Well thats not going to stop the outcome but we would be pushing for a financial penalty against the SPFL.  The decision is up to the member clubs of the SPFL - court just doesnt come into it as far as making that decision is concerned.  There is even people saying Oh yes lets just jump into an english league.... well thats just poppycock.   AB will agree an outcome with the other SPFL clubs. 

A civil action is not something the SPFL will want to get involved in based on the cost and possible outcome.

 

Now that threat might MIGHT drive the SPFL to push for reconstruction but if we are saying that the majority of the 42 clubs have to agree but in the interim we have to accept relegation then **** that.

 

its a carrot to appease and then the SPFL can say “sorry we tried but the vote is final”

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

would it be shooting ourself in the foot by actually voting in the first place then taking legal action if a vote doesn’t go our way? Seems like a total and utter carve up. 

I would hope that Ann is speaking to our lawyers as we speak and we are making clear to any clubs desperate for fast cash, that our response will be to press for an injunction tying up these funds with immediate effect.

[RonnieG]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

What do you see that outcome as being?

 

What do you consider fair recompense?

I think the outcome will be us going down.  We will get a bigger than normal ballon payment for that.  I think a restructuring proposal will be put forward for the season after next with a potential move to 14.  That will be to appease the teams that have missed out on play offs etc.   Im not saying its the right thing to do but its what i think all the other teams (SPFL) will agree to.

[Footballfirst]

We can take it as read that Hamilton, Ross County and St Mirren will vote for the proposal, as it almost guarantees their safety if the season isn't resumed.

 

When reconstruction is considered, then there is little likelihood of them voting for reconstruction, as it would mean that the distribution per premiership club will be reduced. No reconstruction also guarantee's them at least a third game against the OF before the split.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Last Laff]

Just now, Ehllhayapeh said:

 

Yep. It is.

 

At least reconstruction is on the table.

 

That HAS to be the fairest way out of this. I assume that this vote is to see who will "accept" an "as is" finish with the assumption being if that does not pass, it leads to reconstruction.

 

This is where the age old self interest of teams needs to be set aside for what is fair and reasonable in this situation. 

Im not sure reconstruction would be fair on the teams in the lower leagues who would lose their biggest clubs and not have a big club come down in all honesty.  I suppose clubs are going to get shafted all over the place. 

[Jambo in Yorkshire]

If Hearts (and possibly Rangers) take the SPFL to court it would surely cost all clubs a loss of income in the future as legal costs will be significant.

 

We have fans any maybe benefactors to help the club, something the SPFL doesn’t have.

 

Maybe some of the other clubs might consider this before voting to relegate us.

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Would any of us genuinely care about this if Hearts were 4th,5th or 6th in the league?

 

Absolutely not.

 

As much as it seems unfair to be relegated with games still to play would Hearts win the required games anyway?

 

Probably not.

 

I am not going to loose my shit if Hearts go down,we will survive.

 

Hopefully any injustice can get this club its mojo back and fight again.

 

Hearts have everything going for them except a decent team on the pitch,many clubs will not survive this.👍

 

 

 

If we get relegated without playing 38 games I'll be absolutely ****ing raging. There's no way we should take that lying down, I don't care what people think was likely to happen.

[Jamboelite]

What is the pass vote requirement for the 42 teams ?

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

 

Yep. It is.

 

At least reconstruction is on the table.

 

That HAS to be the fairest way out of this. I assume that this vote is to see who will "accept" an "as is" finish with the assumption being if that does not pass, it leads to reconstruction.

 

This is where the age old self interest of teams needs to be set aside for what is fair and reasonable in this situation. 

What does reconstruction even mean?  

 

a 12 team SPL and twenty team Championship so that we can add the likes of Albion Rovers or what have you to the shit we have to play next season!!!

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

I would hope that Ann is speaking to our lawyers as we speak and we are making clear to any clubs desperate for fast cash, that our response will be to press for an injunction tying up these funds with immediate effect.

Definitely.  I’ve a horrible feeling they will push through a vote on this before reconstruction then if that fails and we challenge court action they will turn around and say the club voted so therefore agreed this would be the way forward. 

[Rannoch]

Relegation will mean a minimum £ 4 million loss. There is also no guarantee of a quick return so could be catastrophic. So think about that all you soft fans saying we deserve it and relishing drunken sing a longs in dingy wee pubs in Arbroath and Ayr next season.  This has to be a fight to the end. There is not an ounce of sporting integrity in awarding Celtic a league title and relegating Hearts with all to play for and 8 games to go. One option guaranteed to work; would be the supporters associations of Rangers and Hearts threatening a mass boycott. Doncaster would blink first. We need to cause maximum disruption by timing a legal challenge to secure an injunction. Pay for the best legal QC in the country and I for one will donate because I sure as hell will not pay to watch another game in the SPFL if we go down without a fight. Those Hearts fans who merely want to rollover and have our tummy tickled GTF. Attack Attack Attack

[Mikey1874]

25 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Extract from the statement (the meaningful bit)

 

The SPFL has therefore today circulated a written resolution to its 42 Member Clubs recommending that SPFL clubs approve:

• the immediate termination of Season 2019/20 for the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2, without the remaining fixtures in the League being played;
• all play-off competitions being cancelled; and
• final season placings to be determined by the number of points per game earned by each club in the matches they have played. This would result in the following final divisional tables for Season 2019/20 in the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2:

If approved, this would result in the promotion of Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, and the relegation of Partick Thistle and Stranraer.

 

If the resolution is approved, the SPFL has also committed to consulting with Clubs over the possibility of League restructuring ahead of Season 2020/21.

 

What the SPFL has proposed is a single vote on a number of proposals, together with a carrot of reconstruction if the vote goes through.

There really should be separate votes on:

*   Calling the league now.

*   The method of calculating final positions

*   The determination that there will be promotions and relegations 

*   The cancellation of all play-off games

 

The key one as far as Hearts is concerned is actually the cancellation of the play-off games.  That makes both Hamilton and St Mirren safe, should the Premiership go down the same route, while multiple clubs in lower leagues will be similarly "saved". The clubs losing out on potential play-off opportunities will also be impacted, including those in the Highland and Lowland Leagues.

 

The possibility of talks on reconstruction is a means of getting clubs who will be disadvantaged by the above proposals to actually vote for them.

 

The SPFL Board should be providing more information on their current thinking on reconstruction, so that an informed decision can be made.

 

 

Unless Reconstruction has been discussed already.

 

Going by the SPFL statement without being at all the meetings is partial.

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

If we get relegated without playing 38 games I'll be absolutely ****ing raging. There's no way we should take that lying down, I don't care what people think was likely to happen.

Definitely.  

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, RonnieG said:

I think the outcome will be us going down.  We will get a bigger than normal ballon payment for that.  I think a restructuring proposal will be put forward for the season after next with a potential move to 14.  That will be to appease the teams that have missed out on play offs etc.   Im not saying its the right thing to do but its what i think all the other teams (SPFL) will agree to.

And once the season is called, why would SPL have any interest in expansion?

 

Fair recompense would start at £5m for loss of earnings, the SPFL doesnt have that cash!!

[RonnieG]

1 minute ago, Jambo in Yorkshire said:

If Hearts (and possibly Rangers) take the SPFL to court it would surely cost all clubs a loss of income in the future as legal costs will be significant.

 

We have fans any maybe benefactors to help the club, something the SPFL doesn’t have.

 

Maybe some of the other clubs might consider this before voting to relegate us.

Only if Hearts and Rangers were to win any court case....otherwise both teams would have to pay for court proceedings.  Another reason why i cant see us taking the SPFL to court. 

[Last Laff]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Unless Reconstruction has been discussed already.

 

Going by the SPFL statement without being at all the meetings is partial.

It’s probably been discussed as a carrot to get this vote through.  

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Unless Reconstruction has been discussed already.

 

Going by the SPFL statement without being at all the meetings is partial.

If League reconstruction was realistic it would be getting voted for as a package with these proposals.

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

And once the season is called, why would SPL have any interest in expansion?

 

Fair recompense would start at £5m for loss of earnings, the SPFL doesnt have that cash!!

Who decides what is fair though?  Can you really see anyone giving the club millions? 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, RonnieG said:

Only if Hearts and Rangers were to win any court case....otherwise both teams would have to pay for court proceedings.  Another reason why i cant see us taking the SPFL to court. 

Any court action, would see my FoH rise significantly with immediate effect.

[Jambo in Yorkshire]

The risk of losing a court case applies to both sides, can the SPFL afford the risk?