SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Dagger Is Back]

36 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Dont go to away games, including in the Championship.

 

Our away crowds v. Hamilton, St. Mirren, Ross County etc.  No brainer for them how to vote.

 

When back in top league same.  For TV games open up all the Tynecastle suites and make second floor a bar.

 

5 and 3 quid entrance fee.

 

Les Gray and Stewart Gilmour notably  get it tight at Tynecastle.

Called it matey. I’m not going to boycott our club but if they vote in favour, it tells us all we need to know.

 

I’m inclined to believe the league  will be called as is. Then there will be reconstruction. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if reconstruction hadn’t already been agreed

[Jee]

Whatever they have to do to give Celtic the title and get them into Europe is what will happen.

 

Can't have them losing out on one penny, can we.

 

 

 

[GavK1012]

13 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Would any of us genuinely care about this if Hearts were 4th,5th or 6th in the league?

 

Absolutely not.

 

As much as it seems unfair to be relegated with games still to play would Hearts win the required games anyway?

 

Probably not.

 

I am not going to loose my shit if Hearts go down,we will survive.

 

Hopefully any injustice can get this club its mojo back and fight again.

 

Hearts have everything going for them except a decent team on the pitch,many clubs will not survive this.👍

 

 

 

Best post I have read so far. Quite embarrassing alleged grown ups on here losing their head about this, demanding boycotts etc etc 🤣😂

 

As long as we come back 1st time of asking (nae Hobos or Sevco so we will) it may be a blessing in disguise...

 

Im positive AB did confirm players do have relegation clauses recently, so a chance to pay the boys what they deserve or possibly let them go.

 

I hope Stendel does stay, his contract a side, as he does get us, and a chance to have a clean slate and build a squad in his making, may be enough of a sweetner for a season in the 2nd tier..

 

Get the young boys in with legs and talent, augment with some quality, and lets go again....🤗😊

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If League reconstruction was realistic it would be getting voted for as a package with these proposals.

 

Calling the season allows funds to be released to clubs. Maybe help save some.

 

No immediate rush for Reconstruction though it does affect clubs like Hearts meantime.

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Jambo in Yorkshire said:

The risk of losing a court case applies to both sides, can the SPFL afford the risk?

This isn’t a league board decision it’s a club vote.  It would be interesting to see what grounds there would be at taking the member clubs to court should a vote by the other clubs go against ours’ best interests. 

[jr ewing]

8 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

What is the pass vote requirement for the 42 teams ?

Simple majority. 

[soonbe110]

34 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Extract from the statement (the meaningful bit)

 

The SPFL has therefore today circulated a written resolution to its 42 Member Clubs recommending that SPFL clubs approve:

• the immediate termination of Season 2019/20 for the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2, without the remaining fixtures in the League being played;
• all play-off competitions being cancelled; and
• final season placings to be determined by the number of points per game earned by each club in the matches they have played. This would result in the following final divisional tables for Season 2019/20 in the Ladbrokes Championship, League 1 and League 2:

If approved, this would result in the promotion of Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, and the relegation of Partick Thistle and Stranraer.

 

If the resolution is approved, the SPFL has also committed to consulting with Clubs over the possibility of League restructuring ahead of Season 2020/21.

 

What the SPFL has proposed is a single vote on a number of proposals, together with a carrot of reconstruction if the vote goes through.

There really should be separate votes on:

*   Calling the league now.

*   The method of calculating final positions

*   The determination that there will be promotions and relegations 

*   The cancellation of all play-off games

 

The key one as far as Hearts is concerned is actually the cancellation of the play-off games.  That makes both Hamilton and St Mirren safe, should the Premiership go down the same route, while multiple clubs in lower leagues will be similarly "saved". The clubs losing out on potential play-off opportunities will also be impacted, including those in the Highland and Lowland Leagues.

 

The possibility of talks on reconstruction is a means of getting clubs who will be disadvantaged by the above proposals to actually vote for them.

 

The SPFL Board should be providing more information on their current thinking on reconstruction, so that an informed decision can be made.

 

The compromise being proposed in favour of Hamilton, Ross County and St.Mirren re play-offs is certainly giving our lawyers even more ammo if it comes to a legal matter. 

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

What is the pass vote requirement for the 42 teams ?

 

75%

 

But unclear who's voting here. By league or just the 30 teams.

[hughesie27]

The greatest injustice isn't Hearts situation. It is Patrick's who are 2 points behind with a game in hand. And they are going to relegate them.

 

That would be an absolute farce.

[Jamboelite]

9 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Only if Hearts and Rangers were to win any court case....otherwise both teams would have to pay for court proceedings.  Another reason why i cant see us taking the SPFL to court. 

You are at it....

[Rannoch]

4 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Best post I have read so far. Quite embarrassing alleged grown ups on here losing their head about this, demanding boycotts etc etc 🤣😂

 

As long as we come back 1st time of asking (nae Hobos or Sevco so we will) it may be a blessing in disguise...

 

Im positive AB did confirm players do have relegation clauses recently, so a chance to pay the boys what they deserve or possibly let them go.

 

I hope Stendel does stay, his contract a side, as he does get us, and a chance to have a clean slate and build a squad in his making, may be enough of a sweetner for a season in the 2nd tier..

 

Get the young boys in with legs and talent, augment with some quality, and lets go again....🤗😊

Drop your trousers and get shafted not the way I work

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Looks like a stitch up.

 

There you go vote on it

 

If you want it to finish it on average points, no play offs

 

We might consider reconstruction

 

But that's another vote you need 75% for

 

So onus handed neatly over to the clubs, better have good lawyers for this, otherwise its down to the clubs to recognize that this is a change in the rules, with self preservation top of the agenda, looks like Championship football next season.

 

I think I am done with football to be honest

 

Fraser Wishart will know a few good lawyers.

[Jamboelite]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Simple majority. 

Others are saying 75% 

 

So 32 teams have to agree

 

And i can see at least 6 of the clubs in the SPFL saying no from the off as it dilutes money.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Jamboelite

[DETTY29]

7 minutes ago, Jee said:

Whatever they have to do to give Celtic the title and get them into Europe is what will happen.

 

Can't have them losing out on one penny, can we.

 

 

 

Dont give shiney one about Celtic.

 

They might not say so, but they have always been in cahoots with Rangers, who would have been totally fecked by now without behind the scenes Celtic support.

Edited April 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Ehllhayapeh]

7 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Im not sure reconstruction would be fair on the teams in the lower leagues who would lose their biggest clubs and not have a big club come down in all honesty.  I suppose clubs are going to get shafted all over the place. 

 

Thats fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

If we say Hearts wouldve gone down anyway, I take your point. I doubt if Hamilton or St Mirren went down it would improve the coffers much for other championship clubs and I cant see a Jambo arguing Hearts wouldve gone down over the whole season anyway as that negates the argument that its unfair to relegate them now.

 

Partick going down would boost League 1 income as they tend to travel quite well but who is to say they wouldve gone down with a game in hand on those above and a point in it. Alloa going down to league 1 wouldnt change much.

 

In league 1, one of falkirk or raith if not both may have gone up anyway. Im not sure theres any big clubs at the foot of league 1 that would boost league 2.

 

Brora and Kelty coming up though I think will be a bit better supported. Particularly Kelty. But even then the bottom lines dont make much difference. Brechin going into the Lowland...not sure. The lowland and highland may admit another team next year if both champions go up.

 

Reconstruction is the least worst omnishambles available

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

75%

 

But unclear who's voting here. By league or just the 30 teams.

 

I think its 75% of SPL

75% of Champ

and 75% of combined L1 and L2.

[GavK1012]

Just now, Stendelsarmy said:

You are a joke

 🤣😂 I live in the real world matey, not neverneverland you and plenty others obviously do...I put my hand in my pocket re season tix, FoH, club shop, JKB, and will continue to do so...you dont even put your hand in your pocket on here! Will take lectures from fans that invest time and money first off and who do function normally day to day, thank you very much...the lockdown obviously giving folks too much time on their hands to talk shyte on here!!!!! 

 

Life goes on...

[julienbrellier]

10 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Any court action, would see my FoH rise significantly with immediate effect.

 

Likewise. While unlikely, if there is any element of us agreeing/lying down, I won´t be back and FOH subscription cancelled

[busby1985]

I’d like Hearts to question why it’s taken or even expose why it’s taken nearly 4 weeks to come to the decision that everyone knew was going to be the outcome from the start. I think it’s taken this long due to Celtic wanting reassurances that they’d still get a euro slot. From Thursday 12th of March and probably a few days before then it was known that the league was to be called as it stood if a shut down happened. Like I’ve said loads and loads over this thread, I was with an agent at the euro game on the 12th and he knew the league was to be called as it stood. It’s been in the press since then as well that the league was to be called as it stood. Hearts have been very vocal and very active from the get go around this virus and I believe it’s because they knew this outcome was coming. We better fight this all the way, which I believe we will. 

[Mikey1874]

While it's down to the clubs, having representatives of Hamilton, Alloa and Brechin on the SPFL Board doesn't look great. 

[GavK1012]

3 minutes ago, Rannoch said:

Drop your trousers and get shafted not the way I work

 

🙄 yeah thats a great analogy right enough 🤪....playground words matey...

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

While it's down to the clubs, having representatives of Hamilton, Alloa and Brechin on the SPFL Board doesn't look great. 

A solution in which Hamilton, Alloa and dead in the water Brechin all stay up!!!

[Cruyff]

If the SPFL clubs are having a vote on concluding the season as it stands, I don't think they have enough to send us down. 

 

I can't see Rangers, Hearts, St Johnstone and a Motherwell, Livi or Killie voting for it. 

 

 

[soonbe110]

33 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

no offence but I don’t care if some of these clubs survive, i expect administration rules to be adhered to

Not sure I was disagreeing with you? I was only pointing out that it’s a financial v sporting integrity decision. 

[Paint the town maroon]

Our legal position has been weakened significantly. I do hope Ann has her finger out and is speaking to the club lawyer right now but the minute the SPFL moved to create a vote amongst the clubs and restricted the options as part of that vote AND included a willingness to discuss league reconstruction, I can’t see what our grounds for legal action is now?

 

day one in court. So Mrs Budge, the other 42 clubs voted for this decision and a majority vote was achieved. Tell me again why you think the club have been unfairly treated legally?

[julienbrellier]

9 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Best post I have read so far. Quite embarrassing alleged grown ups on here losing their head about this, demanding boycotts etc etc 🤣😂

 

As long as we come back 1st time of asking (nae Hobos or Sevco so we will) it may be a blessing in disguise...

 

Im positive AB did confirm players do have relegation clauses recently, so a chance to pay the boys what they deserve or possibly let them go.

 

I hope Stendel does stay, his contract a side, as he does get us, and a chance to have a clean slate and build a squad in his making, may be enough of a sweetner for a season in the 2nd tier..

 

Get the young boys in with legs and talent, augment with some quality, and lets go again....🤗😊

 

 

Would be great having you in the trenches wouldn´t it.

 

"There´s too many of them attacking us boys, let´s just give up and take it without giving it back"

 

Completely ridiculous statement.

 

[Jamboelite]

2 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

I’d like Hearts to question why it’s taken or even expose why it’s taken nearly 4 weeks to come to the decision that everyone knew was going to be the outcome from the start. I think it’s taken this long due to Celtic wanting reassurances that they’d still get a euro slot. From Thursday 12th of March and probably a few days before then it was known that the league was to be called as it stood if a shut down happened. Like I’ve said loads and loads over this thread, I was with an agent at the euro game on the 12th and he knew the league was to be called as it stood. It’s been in the press since then as well that the league was to be called as it stood. Hearts have been very vocal and very active from the get go around this virus and I believe it’s because they knew this outcome was coming. We better fight this all the way, which I believe we will. 

No one knew for certain absolutely no one.

 

While people may have indicated their opinion it was just that.

 

And i would imagine Hearts are doing alot of work with lawyers behind the scenes.

[Jamboelite]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

While it's down to the clubs, having representatives of Hamilton, Alloa and Brechin on the SPFL Board doesn't look great. 

Its all clubs not just those that vote.

[Rannoch]

What I’m saying is if we meekly accept this we are gutless. Of course Doncaster has had discussions on reconstruction and it’s a non starter for his bosses- TV companies and Celtic. We go down without a fight and I’m taking up golf instead. 

[bajthejambo]

8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The greatest injustice isn't Hearts situation. It is Patrick's who are 2 points behind with a game in hand. And they are going to relegate them.

 

That would be an absolute farce.

 

Agreed. That simply can not happen.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

If the SPFL clubs are having a vote on concluding the season as it stands, I don't think they have enough to send us down. 

 

I can't see Rangers, Hearts, St Johnstone and a Motherwell, Livi or Killie voting for it. 

 

 

 

They might want to do the Reconstruction proposal together with the vote. 

[DETTY29]

27 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

We can take it as read that Hamilton, Ross County and St Mirren will vote for the proposal, as it almost guarantees their safety if the season isn't resumed.

 

When reconstruction is considered, then there is little likelihood of them voting for reconstruction, as it would mean that the distribution per premiership club will be reduced. No reconstruction also guarantee's them at least a third game against the OF before the split.

FF 

 

What is the voting structure on the initial proposal to pass.

 

I vote per club

75% for motion to pass

 

 

So 32 (edit 33) yesses and the leagues cease as proposed with notably Hearts relegated and Hamilton not to go to a play off, subhect to restructure.

 

And then how does the restructure vote work?

 

Same 1 vote per club, 75% to pass?

 

Is there any division specific voting?

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Ehllhayapeh]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

While it's down to the clubs, having representatives of Hamilton, Alloa and Brechin on the SPFL Board doesn't look great. 

Brechin have no interest in relegation based on as it stands finish.If anything they are an ally in this. Hamilton and Alloa I agree do but what I hope will happen before this vote is clubs will lobby each other to try to determine if there is appetite for reconstruction. If clubs can agree to that they can vote down "as is" and force the reconstruction debate.

 

However, clubs in Scotland do have a history of putting self interest first so its hard to tell what will happen there.

 

[Kidd’s Boots]

I feel the SPFL are unsure of their own position on the issue of calling the season by excluding the Premiership from the initial vote. By asking the lower leagues to agree on a precedent first, they wash their hands of the decision, but at the same time give the chance to complete the top flight right up to the point where it is impossible to do so then claim precedence. I have a feeling that this may be a UEFA directive regarding UCL & EL. What if the 30 lower division chairmen look at the bigger picture and say no deal, the problem deserve a better solution than the ones in front of us, come back with another resolution? 

[Homme]

I'm more angry we have found ourselves bottom of the league in the first place. It's unforgivable. 

 

But yes, we need to fight if we don't get the outcome we want. Any team in our position would. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

And once the season is called, why would SPL have any interest in expansion?

 

Fair recompense would start at £5m for loss of earnings, the SPFL doesnt have that cash!!

That was my thinking too. Once the vote to call the season has been made and approved so everyone knows if they’re safe or promoted will there be any appetite or incentive for reconstruction other than the obvious ones like Hearts and Partick?

 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the reconstruction vote first so every team then knows exactly what they’re voting on later regarding calling the league?

[Cruyff]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

They might want to do the Reconstruction proposal together with the vote. 

Reconstruction is the only sensible option to avoid legal challenges from Rangers and Hearts. 

[GavK1012]

Just now, julienbrellier said:

 

 

Would be great having you in the trenches wouldn´t it.

 

"There´s too many of them attacking us boys, let´s just give up and take it without giving it back"

 

Completely ridiculous statement.

 

🤯

Not really the same thing is it man, again, folk need to get perspective and choose their words with a tad more consideration....

 

Im going round in circles with folk who IMHO either dont live in the real world and want to rant and shout at anything that seemingly doesnt go our way or simply have too much time on their hands just now, which is always a bad thing 👍👌

 

 

[Jamboelite]

3 minutes ago, Paint the town maroon said:

Our legal position has been weakened significantly. I do hope Ann has her finger out and is speaking to the club lawyer right now but the minute the SPFL moved to create a vote amongst the clubs and restricted the options as part of that vote AND included a willingness to discuss league reconstruction, I can’t see what our grounds for legal action is now?

 

day one in court. So Mrs Budge, the other 42 clubs voted for this decision and a majority vote was achieved. Tell me again why you think the club have been unfairly treated legally?

Because they are amending the original contract of the league and its requirements.

 

That doesnt change because clubs voted for amendments.

 

The action is that in Hearts eyes the league cannot be called until all games are played so it doesnt matter what further votes are cast and action taken its the fundamental challenge to calling it and saying they cant.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That was my thinking too. Once the vote to call the season has been made and approved so everyone knows if they’re safe or promoted will there be any appetite or incentive for reconstruction other than the obvious ones like Hearts and Partick?

 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the reconstruction vote first so every team then knows exactly what they’re voting on later regarding calling the league?

Only if Reconstruction is real rather than a diversionary bone.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Homme said:

I'm more angry we have found ourselves bottom of the league in the first place. It's unforgivable. 

 

But yes, we need to fight if we don't get the outcome we want. Any team in our position would. 

That’s where I’m at too. 

[maroonlegions]

This is a total carve up. Those  corrupt blazers want us down. The 3 biggest club in Scotland that contributes financially way more than Hamilton  and St Lie Down  too.  Some might say we deserve it  but there is still only one person to blame and that person should have emptied our last joker of a manager after that lost in the cup final.  Still raging at that, fecking pure and utter lunacy  not getting him out of the dug out.

Edited April 8, 2020 by maroonlegions

[Stendelsarmy]

11 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 🤣😂 I live in the real world matey, not neverneverland you and plenty others obviously do...I put my hand in my pocket re season tix, FoH, club shop, JKB, and will continue to do so...you dont even put your hand in your pocket on here! Will take lectures from fans that invest time and money first off and who do function normally day to day, thank you very much...the lockdown obviously giving folks too much time on their hands to talk shyte on here!!!!! 

 

Life goes on...

 

Weak, placid, pushover

[Ehllhayapeh]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That was my thinking too. Once the vote to call the season has been made and approved so everyone knows if they’re safe or promoted will there be any appetite or incentive for reconstruction other than the obvious ones like Hearts and Partick?

 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the reconstruction vote first so every team then knows exactly what they’re voting on later regarding calling the league?

 

If there isnt a vote on it formally, clubs should at least be sounded out. If there is a will to reconstruct, finish "as is" needs to be voted down. If clubs cannot agree to reconstruct and a format in principal, then that leaves whats on the table.

 

Finish the lower leagues as is (however stupid and unfair on Partick that is) 

Give the premier every possible chance to finish then follow suit if not.

 

Someone somewhere is going to face unfairness in all of this, of that there is no doubt.

 

Begbie had a phrase for it, which applies well to Scottish football.

[tian447]

The only thing we have going for us in terms of numbers, is that the teams in 2nd, 3rd and 4th (and possibly 5th, 6th and even as far as 7th) in the Championship, League One and League Two would be missing out on a chance to jump up a league if the playoffs don't happen.  There are a handful of teams outside the immediate playoff places that are a win away from being in them.

 

That is potentially 15 ish teams that might vote against this proposal, as well as Hearts.  That's a big swing.

[RonnieG]

15 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

You are at it....

I'm at nothing.  Just being logical.  For some reason people continue to take offence at that.  We wont be taking anyone to court.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Reconstruction is the only sensible option to avoid legal challenges from Rangers and Hearts. 

You’re forgetting the club that would have the biggest / more justified reason to make a legal challenge - Partick.  To relegate them based on average points per game would be disgraceful and I’d imagine  Villa will be looking on nervously with interest on that one since I think they’re in exactly the same boat.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

We don’t deserve to stay up

 

whats the worst that would happen if we go down?!

 

we might get rid of some of the wasters 

[David McCaig]

Just now, tian447 said:

The only thing we have going for us in terms of numbers, is that the teams in 2nd, 3rd and 4th (and possibly 5th, 6th and even as far as 7th) in the Championship, League One and League Two would be missing out on a chance to jump up a league if the playoffs don't happen.  There are a handful of teams outside the immediate playoff places that are a win away from being in them.

 

That is potentially 15 ish teams that might vote against this proposal, as well as Hearts.  That's a big swing.

I think the Championship is the only division that may potentially vote against but that assumes that Inverness aren't completely skint.

 

The other issue they would need to consider is that Hearts going down effectively removes the automatic promotion spot for the other clubs in the Division next season.

[soonbe110]

20 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Simple majority. 

75%