SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, communist said:

 

How can you possibly prove that when the virus has been around less than a year. 

You can project a probability of living to a certain age based on your current age and underlying conditions. Actuaries are clever people.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, communist said:

 

 

That's all good and well, why not enlighten us with how many of these deaths were actually caused by covid? 

 

You probably get your news from the BBC whilst wearing a mask from behind your couch. 

 

I just think it's all way over the top with little justification or end game. 

 

Do your own conspiracy theory research. If you don't get why mask wearing and staying at home more, for example as you brought it up, is important, there's no hope for you. Here's a hint, wearing a mask and staying home isn't actually about you.

Edited October 19, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Rods]

34 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Let someone else stick their head above the parapet this time and take all the shite that we had to put up with 

 

My concern is people like St Johnstone and Hamilton chairmen coming up with ideas on promotion and relagation. It would be in their own best interest to stop promotion. They are looking for ways to harm us I have no doubt.

 

The precedent has been set lets just stick with that one.

[Mikey1874]

Won't be any fans at grounds any time soon. 

 

Just have to get on with it. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 hours ago, Dia Liom said:

The fact that they didn't sort out the rules for games affected by covid as soon as the league was stopped due to covid, didn't sort it out during the summer (wasn't there a group set up to deal with this?), didn't sort it out after the aberdeen and celtic debacle, and now, months into the season, still haven't sorted it, would be incredible if it wasn't the spfl.

The SPFL is powerless. It is a ridiculous vote League by League. 

 

They don't have the mandate, it has to come from the clubs. 

 

English game just had its first pass at the power grab shot down. 

 

We really want Doncaster to succeed this time,  if we all know its PPG at least that is fair if we all know that now. 

 

It's when you make these decisions after the event it becomes unfair. 

 

Really what has changed for these clubs who voted for PPG in April. They didn't need a crystal ball,  they do now.

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

The SPFL is powerless. It is a ridiculous vote League by League. 

 

They don't have the mandate, it has to come from the clubs. 

 

English game just had its first pass at the power grab shot down. 

 

We really want Doncaster to succeed this time,  if we all know its PPG at least that is fair if we all know that now. 

 

It's when you make these decisions after the event it becomes unfair. 

 

Really what has changed for these clubs who voted for PPG in April. They didn't need a crystal ball,  they do now.

Self interest only rises the longer they take. Yet, it was obviously a major issue last season. They've allowed it to start without putting any plan to clubs, never mind getting them to agree. It is ******* risible. 

[JKBMod 3]

If you want to discuss the wider aspects of pandemics then the Shed is the place for you. The Terrace is for football discussions and the specific impacts on it. 

[Rods]

I believe also 75% of the league games have to be played before you can submit your teams for European competition. I may be wrong on this one so no matter what games will be played. There beloved Celtic will be desperate for Champions league money by that point. 

[Boozyuzi]

The SPFL should be announcing that the Premiership is cut to 33 games (at most) ASAP.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

I've been pretty pessimistic about our league finishing. I almost think it's guaranteed that somehow relegation and promotion will be stopped this time around. 

 

However, trying to be optimistic, if there's going to be a full lockdown, including football stopping, it'll almost certainly happen quite soon - over winter. There would be time in summer to complete leagues so I think a pause rather than abandoning it would be more likely this time around.

 

The big unknown is playing on without crowds. It's clear at least some Premiership clubs seem to have budgeted for crowds back this autumn. Oh well...

 

 

[CF11JamTart]

4 hours ago, milky_26 said:

My first gig.

[David McCaig]

31 minutes ago, Boozyuzi said:

The SPFL should be announcing that the Premiership is cut to 33 games (at most) ASAP.

That would be interesting given the first round of fixtures sent Rangers to Pittodrie, Easter Road and Parkhead, whilst conversely giving Celtic home games v Aberdeen, Hibs and Rangers!!!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

34 minutes ago, Boozyuzi said:

The SPFL should be announcing that the Premiership is cut to 33 games (at most) ASAP.

No danger that will happen as they would lose a gruesome derby 

[davemclaren]

All we can do is stay top

of the league and see what happens. The top league is nearly a third of the way through already. 

[Riccarton3]

15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

I've been pretty pessimistic about our league finishing. I almost think it's guaranteed that somehow relegation and promotion will be stopped this time around. 

 

However, trying to be optimistic, if there's going to be a full lockdown, including football stopping, it'll almost certainly happen quite soon - over winter. There would be time in summer to complete leagues so I think a pause rather than abandoning it would be more likely this time around.

 

The big unknown is playing on without crowds. It's clear at least some Premiership clubs seem to have budgeted for crowds back this autumn. Oh well...

 

 

I was thinking the same, that promotion and relegation will be scrapped. They will differentiate this season from last as justification; reduced fixtures, more postponements, general chaos, supposed weakness of the Board to lead.  They've got season ticket money in now, too, so that is not an issue. And it won't be 'the right time' for league reconstruction. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Riccarton3

[1971fozzy]

15 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

No danger that will happen as they would lose a gruesome derby 

sadly this is bang on the money.  Protecting that vile game is all they care about and to hell with anything that will stand in the way.

 

[Lone Striker]

8 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Doncaster says they went to clubs for increased powers should similar problems occur this year. With the chaos currently unfolding, is his hand not strengthened to go to the clubs again?? What is he doing? What would his proposals be if the executive was given more power or did he just seek more powers without offering a plan?

Good post.     It looks to me that Doncaster, the SPFL board members and most of  the clubs share 1 guiding mantra  in common  - don't commit to proposing or approving any Covid-related  rule  until  we first see who it  affects.   Everyone hamstrung by fear - a consequence of Scottish football being operated purely for the benefit of the Bigot Brothers.      Then when a Covid crisis occurs, a majority will emerge for just about any proposal regardless of the harm it causes to a minority.      Basically a repeat of April all over again.    

 

Even if the clubs had voted to give the SPFL board the power to operate as they see fit in a Covid crisis, would any of us trust them to act wisely or fairly in such circumstances ?     

 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Self interest only rises the longer they take. Yet, it was obviously a major issue last season. They've allowed it to start without putting any plan to clubs, never mind getting them to agree. It is ******* risible. 

They can't do anything. They require the mandate from the clubs and have been pursuing that since the last season was closed. 

 

The SPFL is the clubs and many clubs are not interested in helping the administration 

[colinmaroon]

4 hours ago, communist said:

 

Nice, thought provoking post. 

 

Please post more. 

 

 

Sometimes colourful language is a good vehicle for portraying a self-evident truth.

 

In passing, is it a coincidence that Celtic lose the bigot derby and this suddenly hits the headlines?

 

 

[jimbojambo]

If the Season is stopped for any length of time and the Sky money stops then clubs will go out of business and pay off their players. In this scenario it may well be the clubs that survive will form the Premier League. 

[colinmaroon]

19 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Doncaster says they went to clubs for increased powers should similar problems occur this year. With the chaos currently unfolding, is his hand not strengthened to go to the clubs again?? What is he doing? What would his proposals be if the executive was given more power or did he just seek more powers without offering a plan?

 

The problem Doncaster has is the clubs, notwithstanding how they voted last time,  do not trust him and for good reason.   He has proven his incompetence and that he is willing to shaft clubs to keep one club,  possibly two now, happy.

 

 

 

 

[Deevers]

35 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

The problem Doncaster has is the clubs, notwithstanding how they voted last time,  do not trust him and for good reason.   He has proven his incompetence and that he is willing to shaft clubs to keep one club,  possibly two now, happy.

 

 

 

 

If only the dolts that run the clubs out with the Old Firm realised this and ensured that everyone’s best interests were always at the heart of decision making, and not just being nodding donkeys and ensuring that Celtic get everything their own way.

[Harry Potter]

36 minutes ago, Deevers said:

If only the dolts that run the clubs out with the Old Firm realised this and ensured that everyone’s best interests were always at the heart of decision making, and not just being nodding donkeys and ensuring that Celtic get everything their own way.

The donkeys will never change, no vision or ambition.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, colinmaroon said:

 

The problem Doncaster has is the clubs, notwithstanding how they voted last time,  do not trust him and for good reason.   He has proven his incompetence and that he is willing to shaft clubs to keep one club,  possibly two now, happy.

 

 

 

 

 

I think they are wary of giving the executive those kinds of powers but the actions of the clubs over the summer make it clear that they do actually trust Doncaster to protect the status quo, and that is all that matters.

 

As far as i am concerned the clubs had a number of opportunities in that time to question his leadership but not one, except Hearts and rangers, put their heads above the parapet. And our complaints were just seen as self-interest, ironically.

 

Like a Tory government, they voted for it so they have to live with the consequences and shut up.

[graygo]

13 hours ago, JKBMod 3 said:

If you want to discuss the wider aspects of pandemics then the Shed is the place for you. The Terrace is for football discussions and the specific impacts on it. 

 

Sorry, read this after my last post.

[DETTY29]

28 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I think they are wary of giving the executive those kinds of powers but the actions of the clubs over the summer make it clear that they do actually trust Doncaster to protect the status quo, and that is all that matters.

 

As far as i am concerned the clubs had a number of opportunities in that time to question his leadership but not one, except Hearts and rangers, put their heads above the parapet. And our complaints were just seen as self-interest, ironically.

 

Like a Tory government, they voted for it so they have to live with the consequences and shut up.

A glorified administrator with a legal background happy to accept a salary on some woolly KPIs for some reason is a far better proposition to our clubs than a proper strategical CEO willing to put his neck on the line if he can't persuade his stakeholders to buy into his visions for the future.

 

 

[upgotheheads]

I hope AB is taking legal advice (again) on what happens if the league stops. 

 

Another resolution like last time could see us starting again in the second  tier some time (if ever) late next year, all to protect Sky and the Arse Cheeks  sacred right to four scummy derby's a year. In fact I could see the SPFL taking the view that we would be likely to survive anyway, so they could leave us in the Championship to support the rest of the clubs in that league while half the clubs in the Premier League would go under without the crumbs from the Arse-Cheek table.

 

Giving Doncaster and Co the right to act as they see fit also saves them the trouble of fiddling a vote.

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I hope AB is taking legal advice (again) on what happens if the league stops. 

 

Another resolution like last time could see us starting again in the second  tier some time (if ever) late next year, all to protect Sky and the Arse Cheeks  sacred right to four scummy derby's a year. In fact I could see the SPFL taking the view that we would be likely to survive anyway, so they could leave us in the Championship to support the rest of the clubs in that league while half the clubs in the Premier League would go under without the crumbs from the Arse-Cheek table.

 

Giving Doncaster and Co the right to act as they see fit also saves them the trouble of fiddling a vote.

If at any time a vote is taken to call the league, every club except for the league leaders in each lower division division and whoever is second out of Celtic or rangers, will call the league finished and there is not a thing we can do about it. 

[Taffin]

Surely if they call the league we'll be promoted and Hamilton will be relegated based on what happened last time.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I'd be utterly shocked if they did their job and published a clear set of decision making criteria for deciding to finish a season and award matches based on teams not being able to fulfil the fixture. Much better from Lawwell's and Doncaster's perspective that the 'Board' be given the power to do what they wish at the time depending on whatever. Expect them to keep pushing in this direction and making ridiculously inconsistent decisions like 5 subs in all leagues except the Championship.

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

14 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

I was thinking the same, that promotion and relegation will be scrapped. They will differentiate this season from last as justification; reduced fixtures, more postponements, general chaos, supposed weakness of the Board to lead.  They've got season ticket money in now, too, so that is not an issue. And it won't be 'the right time' for league reconstruction. 

 

Thats my concern as well.

[DH1986]

33 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Surely if they call the league we'll be promoted and Hamilton will be relegated based on what happened last time.

When the vote is in the hands of 20 something tin pot, part-time clubs anything is possible.

 

 

[Tommy Brown]

24 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

When the vote is in the hands of 20 something tin pot, part-time clubs anything is possible.

 

 

 

"On reflection, Hearts were mistreated in their relegation. We have learned from past errors and this time round, we agree that there should be no promotion or relegation."

 

We know it's going to happen.....

[Rods]

It is a dangerous time for Hearts.

 

If the board gets the powers we are in real trouble.

 

As someone mentioned earlier teams would vote to a) keep us down b) keep us in the league for the cash. Thats why a boycott is needed and clubs folding is needed. We cannot trust the SPFL to do the right thing and we have to act accordingly.

[NANOJAMBO]

47 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

"On reflection, Hearts were mistreated in their relegation. We have learned from past errors and this time round, we agree that there should be no promotion or relegation."

 

We know it's going to happen.....

I'm saving this.

[Riccarton3]

16 minutes ago, Rods said:

It is a dangerous time for Hearts.

 

If the board gets the powers we are in real trouble.

 

As someone mentioned earlier teams would vote to a) keep us down b) keep us in the league for the cash. Thats why a boycott is needed and clubs folding is needed. We cannot trust the SPFL to do the right thing and we have to act accordingly.

Board not seeking powers. Gave up on that. Happy to use the current voting structure. Only thing to decide is how they present the options after guaging levels of self interest

Edited October 20, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Nookie Bear]

14 minutes ago, Rods said:

It is a dangerous time for Hearts.

 

If the board gets the powers we are in real trouble.

 

As someone mentioned earlier teams would vote to a) keep us down b) keep us in the league for the cash. Thats why a boycott is needed and clubs folding is needed. We cannot trust the SPFL to do the right thing and we have to act accordingly.

If it looks like we are going down that road I would want all Hearts supporters federations to release a statement saying we will not be attending any ground where a club voted to keep us down. 
 

[Blackford Hearts]

Teams hit by a Covid outbreak losing points would be "exceptionally harsh", according to Ross County boss Stuart Kettlewell.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54612694

 

I am pretty sure there was a case at the end of last season where some clubs were adversely affected because of Covid? 
 

 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

 

3 minutes ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Teams hit by a Covid outbreak losing points would be "exceptionally harsh", according to Ross County boss Stuart Kettlewell.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54612694

 

I am pretty sure there was a case at the end of last season where some clubs were adversely affected because of Covid? 
 

 

Club gets covid and can’t get a squad together -> forfeit the fixture. 

 

End of story imo. Yes it is harsh. So is getting expelled from the league due to a dodgy vote with key fixtures unfulfilled. 

 

 

[HMFC01]

I think the recent avenue the spfl are using is certainly one that wants a concensus to a vote.   They will gather that from their questionnaire, modify their previous solution to as close to what they and most want.  It will be no surprise that there will be resistance from clubs in unfavourable positions.   I think most of the lower league clubs just want fans in, so that's already a problem.  They might suggest some kind of financial package if there is another halt to the league.   The obvious other struggle could be the OF title debate ☺  still ppg or whoever top wins. 

 

Options could be largely various on all accounts regarding solution. 

[Blackford Hearts]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Club gets covid and can’t get a squad together -> forfeit the fixture. 

 

End of story imo. Yes it is harsh. So is getting expelled from the league due to a dodgy vote with key fixtures unfulfilled. 

 

 

Totally. I would rather lose 3 points than get expelled. These guys have no humility at all! 

[3fingersreid]

38 minutes ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Teams hit by a Covid outbreak losing points would be "exceptionally harsh", according to Ross County boss Stuart Kettlewell.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54612694

 

I am pretty sure there was a case at the end of last season where some clubs were adversely affected because of Covid? 
 

 

When I read comments like this it just builds the anger and frustration I have towards ***** like him and the shit wee club he’s at . 
Can affect jobs , too right it did ,my daughter lost hers at Hearts , only a small amount of hours but she loved it , when we were expelled from the league , did they think about Hearts and their staff when they voted ? Did they **** . I hope they disappear from football altogether . 
 

Can’t field a team , a team that boasts about its academy play the laddies, lose 3 points and take your medicine , simple . 
 

[kila]

1 hour ago, Rods said:

It is a dangerous time for Hearts.

 

If the board gets the powers we are in real trouble.

 

As someone mentioned earlier teams would vote to a) keep us down b) keep us in the league for the cash. Thats why a boycott is needed and clubs folding is needed. We cannot trust the SPFL to do the right thing and we have to act accordingly.

 

I think they'll vote for promotion and relegation - they sort of have to otherwise there is no point in the Championship even taking place and sponsors will see it being devalued.

 

And if the league did get called early would every top flight team survive?

 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

If at any time a vote is taken to call the league, every club except for the league leaders in each lower division division and whoever is second out of Celtic or rangers, will call the league finished and there is not a thing we can do about it. 

Think they need to avoid that vote happening because I suspect you are probably correct. Several things against a vote atm.  Europa League is big bucks for Celtic and Rangers and UEFA need to keep it going for tv money so we need that tournament to survive until early next year at the least and it will also help our case if both clubs make it to ko stages as SFA won’t stop our leagues when they are  still alive in Europe. Second thing is that the Sky money will largely disappear if the top league is called very early or cancelled. That will affect all clubs and will almost certainly be the final straw for many. 
interesting that at yesterday’s  meeting their proposal was for 3-0 results in the event of clubs being unable to fulfil fixtures rather than postponements. That suggest to me they are desperate to get through the full programme and fulfil their obligations to Sky to ensure the tv money comes in. Think we should be ok as long as the COVID situation doesn’t get really bad. 

[hunts]

I can see there being promotion but no relegation this season, basically what Hearts proposed this summer!

 

Dont really care to be honest as long as we are back in premier next season.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Throughout this mess the obvious solution has always been there: Expand the league to include all etc clubs that can play in a temporary COVID-19 Division. Let the lower league clubs vote to play or mothball. Make it a smaller number of games to cope with call offs, eg 16 or 18 teams playing each other twice. Done. Sort out the leagues later when things are back to normal. The problem is the clubs have wanted everything - all their cake, eating it all the time, when there is a shortage of cake. Seasons to run and end as normal, crowds back, cups to run, with the same number of games and prize money they always have - during a ****ing global emergency! Total idiots the lot of them. Only Budge and a couple of others could see the big picture that what was needed was a temporary solution to a temporary crisis.

[Heart of Darkness]

5 minutes ago, hunts said:

I can see there being promotion but no relegation this season, basically what Hearts proposed this summer!

 

Dont really care to be honest as long as we are back in premier next season.

That's what I'm thinking Hunts.

They may not like us but they can't afford us not to be in the top flight - we are the 3rd biggest supported club in Scotland & that also means audience for Television. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

3 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Teams hit by a Covid outbreak losing points would be "exceptionally harsh", according to Ross County boss Stuart Kettlewell.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54612694

 

I am pretty sure there was a case at the end of last season where some clubs were adversely affected because of Covid? 
 

 

 

The contraryness, selective memory application and hypocrisy is stunning. What a bunch.

 

 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

Throughout this mess the obvious solution has always been there: Expand the league to include all etc clubs that can play in a temporary COVID-19 Division. Let the lower league clubs vote to play or mothball. Make it a smaller number of games to cope with call offs, eg 16 or 18 teams playing each other twice. Done. Sort out the leagues later when things are back to normal. The problem is the clubs have wanted everything - all their cake, eating it all the time, when there is a shortage of cake. Seasons to run and end as normal, crowds back, cups to run, with the same number of games and prize money they always have - during a ****ing global emergency! Total idiots the lot of them. Only Budge and a couple of others could see the big picture that what was needed was a temporary solution to a temporary crisis.

Some folk prefer to make things worse not just for others, but themselves too rather than admit someone else may be correct.

 

It's a bizarre human trait.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by DETTY29

[D4lien]

Brian Rice and Ketterwell the last two days... A pair of cunning stunts. 

 

The realisation is sinking in amongst them all. 

 

I fully expect us to be stuck for another year in the championship. They'll run out some excuse and everyone in the spfl will vote in favour. It's how it will be. 

 

We will go to court, or whatever, and get screwed again.