SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Koolkeith]

26 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

I agree and can't understand why DU et al didn't vote for it as court was always going to be the case if recon failed and they have put themselves in a position where a coin toss will decide if they get promoted or not instead of a guaranteed promotion. 

Every penny is a prisoner as they say. Clubs are struggling and didn’t want to lose any extra money or increase their chances of relegation. Plus some wanted to screw us over at the same time. I guess they didn’t expect us to go through with our legal threat.

[Five to One]

3 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Am I dumb or does this not seem like a very provocative stunt?  Why not walk to Kirkcaldy?

 

There are enough idiots in our support that could cause a problem on their arrival/near arrival and the PR for that would be dire.  

 

Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

 

Completely agree and the Courier are pitching it as a good news story like they’re raising money for a hospice or charity. I find the choice of Tynecastle wholly inappropriate and very sinister. 

[Mikey1874]

49 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Which is the opposite of what they argued in court last week.

 

All these statements will be evidence. 

[heartmussel]

3 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Am I dumb or does this not seem like a very provocative stunt?  Why not walk to Kirkcaldy?

 

There are enough idiots in our support that could cause a problem on their arrival/near arrival and the PR for that would be dire.  

 

Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

 

The media would love it certainly👍Maybe Anne Budge could welcome them,sit them down,we bit hospitality,and tell them the real story not what they are being fed by the media.

[gjcc]

6 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Am I dumb or does this not seem like a very provocative stunt?  Why not walk to Kirkcaldy?

 

There are enough idiots in our support that could cause a problem on their arrival/near arrival and the PR for that would be dire.  

 

Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

 

Probably. We should do the opposite. Have someone representing kickback to meet them with a 1p donation*.

 

 

*As long as they meet the highly ambitious target of 18 hours, of course. 

[DETTY29]

Could Raith say our vote was only prejudiced against Falkirk and as such should only be the limit of our liability.....

 

And Falkirk haven't brought a case forward.

Edited July 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, heartmussel said:

The media would love it certainly👍Maybe Anne Budge could welcome them,sit them down,we bit hospitality,and tell them the real story not what they are being fed by the media.

That would actually be tremendous. 
 

These guys will go running to social media if they get any hassle so best just to point and laugh imo 

[gnasher75]

Are they calling it the Robbie Neilson Way?

[Byyy The Light]

52 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I said as much weeks ago. The people who run football in Scotland are trumped up egotists who have no ability to see a bigger picture, particularly one being projected by "a bloody woman".

Spot on Geoff. It’s madness 

[Ethan Hunt]

Questions - Who is paying the SPFL’s legal costs? Doncaster repeatedly states that all the income generated - after the costs of running the league are deducted - is paid to the clubs. If the legal costs are seen as part of the costs of running the league, is that acceptable to the clubs? There would never normally be legal costs of this nature involved therefore surely the clubs themselves would want some input? I would hate to think that the SPFL has roped DU/RR/CR into responding to this petition to spread the liability of legal costs. The SPFL should be putting DU/RR/CR argument over as part of their overall argument. It would appear that they are being roped into the arbitration to basically tell the panel the same as they told Lord Clarke i.e. we’ve spent money trying to get promoted. That argument can surely be presented by the SPFL in documentary form, the same as most other evidence will be presented?

[Cruickie's Moustache]

Has the Raith Chairman just admitted that he effectively made a decision on the resolution based on a 50/50 scenario as to whether or not what was being proposed was legal in relation to company law?

 

So either he was fully aware of the situation or, if this is suddenly news to him, those promoting the resolution didn't give him and his board sufficient information to understand the full consequences of what they were doing?

 

Get him on the stand!!!

Edited July 8, 2020 by Cruickie's Moustache

[colinmaroon]

4 minutes ago, heartmussel said:

The media would love it certainly👍Maybe Anne Budge could welcome them,sit them down,we bit hospitality,and tell them the real story not what they are being fed by the media.

 

 

Now that would be good PR - UNTIL - 

 

until Jackson, Gordon and their fellow slimers twist it.

 

 

[Dagger Is Back]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Seem some of the fundraising. Good effort. These guys have made £10,000 so far.

 

 

 

They're only doing what we would have done in a similar situation and have done since those dark pre/post admin days. Can't find any anger in my soul for them quite honestly. The best result for us would be NO welcoming party. Let them do their thing and be gone

Edited July 8, 2020 by Dagger Is Back

[DETTY29]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Questions - Who is paying the SPFL’s legal costs? Doncaster repeatedly states that all the income generated - after the costs of running the league are deducted - is paid to the clubs. If the legal costs are seen as part of the costs of running the league, is that acceptable to the clubs? There would never normally be legal costs of this nature involved therefore surely the clubs themselves would want some input? I would hate to think that the SPFL has roped DU/RR/CR into responding to this petition to spread the liability of legal costs. The SPFL should be putting DU/RR/CR argument over as part of their overall argument. It would appear that they are being roped into the arbitration to basically tell the panel the same as they told Lord Clarke i.e. we’ve spent money trying to get promoted. That argument can surely be presented by the SPFL in documentary form, the same as most other evidence will be presented?

Could be a fixed price annual retainer?

Edited July 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[colinmaroon]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Questions - Who is paying the SPFL’s legal costs? Doncaster repeatedly states that all the income generated - after the costs of running the league are deducted - is paid to the clubs. If the legal costs are seen as part of the costs of running the league, is that acceptable to the clubs? There would never normally be legal costs of this nature involved therefore surely the clubs themselves would want some input? I would hate to think that the SPFL has roped DU/RR/CR into responding to this petition to spread the liability of legal costs. The SPFL should be putting DU/RR/CR argument over as part of their overall argument. It would appear that they are being roped into the arbitration to basically tell the panel the same as they told Lord Clarke i.e. we’ve spent money trying to get promoted. That argument can surely be presented by the SPFL in documentary form, the same as most other evidence will be presented?

 

 

As I've said before, the whole crowd-funding thing is to save Celtic money.

 

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

One thing it looks like its next wek that the case kicks off in full anger?  This week will be about getting it set up.

 

Mind you its going to cost somebody the debt of a third world country if they let Borland speak, He will hog the full bhuna

[Hagar the Horrible]

I hope that is a typo

 

Between the money we’ve put in and the money we hope to get from other clubs and that should make us secure in terms of the money poison.”

[Jambo-Fox]

2 hours ago, ericb said:

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

And DUFC in X2 Divisions, Prem & Champ!

And no promotion or relegation from Champ, 1st or 2nd!!

[Rods]

45 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Foolish pride

 

Sky Sports

 

we would have to work around the old firm fixtures.

 

There is no way now that the SFA/We will put at risk the whole contract.

[Shanks]

40 minutes ago, jackal said:

What I dont understand is DUs vote against reconstruction. If it went ahead they get extra games and at least one visit from Hearts fans so more income. They would get less in the way of prize money because more teams to split but I think the main reason is taking a team out that you know will finish above you so more chance of relegation or play off in year one.

If it was Hamilton, St Liedown or County I think they would have voted yes.

Agreed, also the argument about less prize money makes me laugh now.  The amount they would lose from that probably works out less than all the lawyers fees

 

The raith vote against reconstruction still just baffles me.  They voted against a 10 team league in favour of..... a 10 team league. 

[manaliveits105]

25 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Am I dumb or does this not seem like a very provocative stunt?  Why not walk to Kirkcaldy?

 

There are enough idiots in our support that could cause a problem on their arrival/near arrival and the PR for that would be dire.  

 

Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

 

Does the route go by Luckies and the Westfield?

[Gmcjambo]

5 minutes ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

Has the Raith Chairman just admitted that he effectively made a decision on the resolution based on a 50/50 scenario as to whether or not what was being proposed was legal in relation to company law?

 

So either he was fully aware of the situation or, if this is suddenly news to him, those promoting the resolution didn't give him and his board sufficient information to understand the full consequences of what they were doing?

 

Get him on the stand!!!

If you mean the original resolution I'm sure there was a lot of gaps and misinformation.   The SPFL QC had advised the SPFL of the risk of legal action.  I'm pretty sure this wasn't passed on to member clubs.  The real issue I have with member clubs is the chances they've had to right the obvious wrong and avoid the situation we are now in.    I think most Chairmen are only waking up to the real threat here now and assumed we wouldn't have the guts to take in the establishment and member clubs.    

[DETTY29]

2 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Agreed, also the argument about less prize money makes me laugh now.  The amount they would lose from that probably works out less than all the lawyers fees

 

The raith vote against reconstruction still just baffles me.  They voted against a 10 team league in favour of..... a 10 team league. 

Raith don't want Falkirk and Partick in same league as them.

 

But will take our fans cash.

Edited July 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[PhoenixHearts]

8 hours ago, Mister Dee said:

I had a look at that Gofundme page.  
Someone (presumably a Celtic fan) has made a donation with the comment ‘**** the diet huns’. 
I cannot imagine being so obsessed with Rangers that to get back at them you pay money to a Dundee Utd campaign, to punish Hearts. Celtic fans are strange. 

 

Just a thought as I don't know how GoFundMe works or what's allowed but wouldn't it be incredibly morally questionable for Dundee Utd to accept money which has been given with a clear prejudicial statement attached to it? It obviously hasn't been donated with the 3 clubs financial plight in mind, rather that it's only to do potential damage to Hearts.

[rory78]

41 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Seem some of the fundraising. Good effort. These guys have made £10,000 so far.

 

 

The boy on the right could certainly do with a big walk 

[Shanks]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

Raith don't want Falkirk and Partick in dame league as them.

 

But will take our cash.

Think they are in for a shock if they are expecting a huge travelling Hearts crowd.  Normally a game I would love to go to but there is zero percent chance I will ever step foot in their shithole stadium again. 

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, rory78 said:

The boy on the right could certainly do with a big walk 

who ate all the pays ?

[mintmyster]

5 minutes ago, rory78 said:

The boy on the right could certainly do with a big walk 

But not walking to Maryhill, just Tynecastle as it’s just Hearts that are the bad guys.  I can see the headlines already.....😡

[number-16]

44 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Seem some of the fundraising. Good effort. These guys have made £10,000 so far.

 

 

 

I kind of fancy the challenge of outdoing that.

 

Balmoral Stadium, via Tannadice and Stark's Park, to Tynecastle. About 120 miles.

[AndrewB]

1 minute ago, mintmyster said:

But not walking to Maryhill, just Tynecastle as it’s just Hearts that are the bad guys.  I can see the headlines already.....😡

Fans of other clubs lining the streets with tears pouring down their cheeks like it was the fricking Rickshaw Challenge.

Chris McLaughlin interviewing them as they pass through Corstorphine.

 

That sort of thing, probably.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, niblick1874 said:

 

So you know they are going to figure out how much money by going back 10 years. Where did you see or hear that? Hearts can't get into the Champions league if they are not in the top league. That is a fact. They will be going on facts.  

We'll not be compensated for fanciful things like losing out on the Champions league group stages. We'll be looking for compensation for loss of prize money, loss of TV money. Loss of sponsorship money. Loss of gate revenue (excluding loos solely to to no crowds Covid) Loss of actual home fixtures ( from 18 guaranteed to 13 guaranteed) Loss of hospitality revenue. Loss of players and coaching staff through relegation clauses. A whole raft of other real, reasonable and legitimate things without inventing that we've lost out on Champions League cash. That would be rightly laughed off. We'll get what we can reasonably account for as lost. Nothing more and probably quite a bit less.

[Anything2]

29 minutes ago, Koolkeith said:

Every penny is a prisoner as they say. Clubs are struggling and didn’t want to lose any extra money or increase their chances of relegation. Plus some wanted to screw us over at the same time. I guess they didn’t expect us to go through with our legal threat.

But they have along with other teams, put themselves in a position where they are just as likely to take a massive financial hit as they are to get promoted. I would have thought the sensible business move would have been for them to get on the reconstruction bandwagon and tried to ensure they got promoted accepting the loss of one OF revenue or whatever advantage they think there is to getting us demoted. They could have backed themselves to be in the top six and get 4 OF home games. The odds of that aren't much worse than winning in arbitration and don't have the massive disadvantage of  bankruptcy if you lose. 

[SectionDJambo]

Hearts should track the progress of these Dundee United fans who are walking. It won't be 18 hours unless they are using skateboards.

Anyway, it could turn things round a fair bit, if Hearts actually gave these guys a good welcome, take them inside, and put our case to them. This would include emphasising that we have no desire to stop their promotion, only our demotion. That the problem lies with too many clubs, including their own, not giving a hoot about the financial damage such an arbitrary decision of demoting 3 clubs, who just happened to be bottom of their divisions at the wrong time, with a fifth of the season still to play. 

Maybe a goodwill gesture and narrative from our side of the dispute, would help show them, and others, that we and Partick are not the bad guys here. That we are actually the wronged party in this sorry affair.

[Mikey1874]

57 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Read the comments of Prof Carl Friston - second wave would be minor, most likely Jan next year - 7000 deaths.

 

The worry relating to football is there are still developments in understanding of Covid 19. 

 

Some scientists now saying there is evidence the virus lingers in the air.

 

Making mass events vulnerable. 

[Gulf Jambo]

31 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

That would actually be tremendous. 
 

These guys will go running to social media if they get any hassle so best just to point and laugh imo 

 

The Eighteen 74 Bar or Tynecastle Arms should be open when they arrive.

Welcome them with a free pint and tell them we'll just add the cost to Utd's share of the Compo 😂

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Hearts should track the progress of these Dundee United fans who are walking. It won't be 18 hours unless they are using skateboards.

Anyway, it could turn things round a fair bit, if Hearts actually gave these guys a good welcome, take them inside, and put our case to them. This would include emphasising that we have no desire to stop their promotion, only our demotion. That the problem lies with too many clubs, including their own, not giving a hoot about the financial damage such an arbitrary decision of demoting 3 clubs, who just happened to be bottom of their divisions at the wrong time, with a fifth of the season still to play. 

Maybe a goodwill gesture and narrative from our side of the dispute, would help show them, and others, that we and Partick are not the bad guys here. That we are actually the wronged party in this sorry affair.

All well and good but we actually ARE trying to stop their promotion.It says so in the petition. Personally I think we could have gone for simply stopping our own demotion without stopping promotion. Must be a legal reason why we didn't. We stop our own demotion and it leaves the SPFL to fix everything else. Its not our problem and not our business to make room for Dundee Utd. If the SPFL want to do that, then go ahead and do it, force it though or put it to the vote, but we need to be in that top league, no matter what happens or doesn't happen for any other club.

Edited July 8, 2020 by JimmyCant

[sac]

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It will be funny if we get £8m because I can’t even begin to imagine how the clubs would scrape that together. £200k per club. Sair yin

That would be harsh on ICT plus any other club who didn’t want to do any harm by voting against the resolution.

[TyphoonJambo]

Just now, sac said:

That would be harsh on ICT plus any other club who didn’t want to do any harm by voting against the resolution.

Thats the bit im uncomfortable with. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Surprised but Brian Rice was plainly sensible when he was questioned. 

 

If it was our club I'd hope we would do the same thing 

[Jim Panzee]

29 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

They're only doing what we would have done in a similar situation and have done since those dark pre/post admin days. Can't find any anger in my soul for them quite honestly. The best result for us would be NO welcoming party. Let them do their thing and be gone

 totally agree with this. If they make it to Tynie then fair play - but let them act like ******s for a whole 6-7 minutes until they realise no one but a confused OAP dragging a shopping trolley on their way to the shops is watching them..... and then they have to work out how to get back home.... 

[tcjambo]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The worry relating to football is there are still developments in understanding of Covid 19. 

 

Some scientists now saying there is evidence the virus lingers in the air.

 

Making mass events vulnerable. 

Biggest problem is media reporting and the government's obsession with the Precautionary Principle

[Jambo Mac]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Hearts should track the progress of these Dundee United fans who are walking. It won't be 18 hours unless they are using skateboards.

By the time they arrive at Tynecastle the Arbitration case will be finished even with their QC talking

No rush to get back though. their first game won't be until 17 th October

 

FTH

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

All well and good but we actually ARE trying to stop their promotion.It says so in the petition. Personally I think we could have gone for simply stopping our own demotion with stopping promotion. Must be a legal reason why we didn't. We stop our own demotion and it leaves the SPFL to fix everything else. Its not our problem and not our business to make room for Dundee Utd. If the SPFL want to do that, then go ahead and do it, force it though or put it to the vote, but we need to be in that top league, no matter what happens or doesn't happen for any other club.

Is it not the case that we had to inform them that a consequence of us preventing our demotion, would be them not being able to be promoted under the current league arrangements?  As in there wouldn’t be any room for them. 
That’s a subtle difference from saying we want to stop their promotion, just in my opinion.

[Biko]

3 minutes ago, sac said:

That would be harsh on ICT plus any other club who didn’t want to do any harm by voting against the resolution.

Could always not cash the cheque we get from certain clubs. 

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, sac said:

That would be harsh on ICT plus any other club who didn’t want to do any harm by voting against the resolution.

Stranraer would also need to pay a share. I am sure we'll think of something to make sure they get their share back. Perhaps a beneficiary will appear and play good samaritan for them. Theres a few other clubs in that category who shouldn't have to lose out because of the actions of others.

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

All well and good but we actually ARE trying to stop their promotion.It says so in the petition. Personally I think we could have gone for simply stopping our own demotion without stopping promotion. Must be a legal reason why we didn't. We stop our own demotion and it leaves the SPFL to fix everything else. Its not our problem and not our business to make room for Dundee Utd. If the SPFL want to do that, then go ahead and do it, force it though or put it to the vote, but we need to be in that top league, no matter what happens or doesn't happen for any other club.

 

A good question.

 

Curious. 

 

But left with no alternative we've stated stopping relegation in the current league set means no promotion. 

 

Think we might be wanting to force SPFL to reconstruct even 13 team for one season.

[sac]

Just now, TypoonJambo said:

Thats the bit im uncomfortable with. 

That’s the absurdity of this whole cluster**** caused by Doncaster. Simple solution, no relegation, no compensation, promotions/ Tainted titles* preserved, Brora, Kelty promoted. Everyone’s a winner, long term fallout will be somewhat reduced via this damage limitation outcome.

Still got time.

[Andrew Gilbert Wauchope]

14 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Hearts should track the progress of these Dundee United fans who are walking. It won't be 18 hours unless they are using skateboards.

Anyway, it could turn things round a fair bit, if Hearts actually gave these guys a good welcome, take them inside, and put our case to them. This would include emphasising that we have no desire to stop their promotion, only our demotion. That the problem lies with too many clubs, including their own, not giving a hoot about the financial damage such an arbitrary decision of demoting 3 clubs, who just happened to be bottom of their divisions at the wrong time, with a fifth of the season still to play. 

Maybe a goodwill gesture and narrative from our side of the dispute, would help show them, and others, that we and Partick are not the bad guys here. That we are actually the wronged party in this sorry affair.

 

We should line Gorgie Road to cheer them along.   Although a turnout to match the 98 cup win is probably out of the question.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Andrew Gilbert Wauchope

[AndrewB]

4 minutes ago, Jambo Mac said:

By the time they arrive at Tynecastle the Arbitration case will be finished even with their QC talking

No rush to get back though. their first game won't be until 17 th October

 

FTH

🤩

[number-16]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Stranraer would also need to pay a share. I am sure we'll think of something to make sure they get their share back. Perhaps a beneficiary will appear and play good samaritan for them. Theres a few other clubs in that category who shouldn't have to lose out because of the actions of others.

In Stranraer's case, they'd probably be able to negotiate similar/relative compensation on the basis that a precedent has been set that they could then take to arbitration if the SPFL weren't forthcoming.