SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Sarah O]

Good for the Belgians. 

 

Not sure how this effects us however.

[Cruyff]

11 minutes ago, robbo1874 said:

The 4th Official

 

@Official_T4O

 

Huge breaking news out of Belgium. Title, relegation places voided by BAS right now. Currently, there are no champions in Belgium, no relegated teams. My exclusive reporting with 2 correspondents from Belgium.

That's exactly what should happen. Different laws in different countries though. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Sarah O said:

Good for the Belgians. 

 

Not sure how this effects us however.

 

Precedent I assume. At the very least it puts the Scottish league even more on its own.

Edited July 8, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Jambo66]

1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

What happens to 'winners ' of  from the league below? Are they walking to Wasland -Beveren?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Precedent I assume. At the very least it puts the Scottish league even more on its own.

Makes then look like the rats they are.

[kila]

4 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Remember the 15th May vote in Belgium? The absolute humongous mess. If not, remember this article by our Belgian correspondent. Saying it was a clusterf*ck would not be far from the truth. Just recently the Belgian Competition Authority ruled at the start of this month that stopping the relegation of Waasland-Beveren would be unjustified as it is too big of an advantage for a temporary measure until they give a final verdict (which takes months or years depending on the case).

It seems there has been a dramatic u-turn though just now. After that ruling from the Competition Authority, the BAS was expected to follow that and make everything formal. That is not what happened, though. Having spoken with 2 Belgian correspondents (one of them is a Waasland-Beveren fan), it seems BAS stood with Waasland-Beveren and declared the Pro League's decision of 15th of May void.

According to one of our Belgian correspondent, ''If I assume correctly, all decisions taken on the 15th are now void, and every decision has to be re-voted for. This includes the title (is or isn't there a champion crowed for this season) and the competition formula for next season (16/18 

teams, will there be play-offs and if so, in what way).''

Also, our other Belgian correspondent added, ''Well this could be the case, as the media has said that the decision is a document of 150 pages and the lawyers of all the parties are researching what exactly this decision means and what exactly is void. But it seems like (part of) the decisions on the 15th of May will have to be made again/voted on again.''

He continued: ''The funny thing is, yesterday there was a general assembly where they had the chance to vote for 18 teams, resolving everything. But because the Competition Authority said that putting Beveren in the 1st division would be a big advantage given by them, so they thought the BAS would say the same and just follow them and rule that the decisions on 15th of May are correct. But in the decision of the Competition Authority, it also stated that giving money to teams wasn't correct for example; it wasn't a complete "loss" for Beveren, just the advice to put us in the first division wasn't expressed.''

As things stand, the league winners, relegated places are all void, and we will need a new vote. Complete and utter chaos and nobody knows what is going to happen.

 

 

 

 

That sounds familiar!

[One five]

28 minutes ago, kila said:

 

 

Don't think Les was doing anything other than saying what he knew or what he got told. Shame some posters can't help themselves but don't think it's a reason for him to stop relaying his thoughts. There'll always be a percent of folk moaning about something.

 

This 

[Jamboelite]

6 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Good for the Belgians. 

 

Not sure how this effects us however.

My thoughts exactly....

[Al The Jambo]

I haven't been on here for ages, and haven't posted much. But Python would struggle to come up with something as comical as the crap the SPFL, SFA or whatever they want to call themselves have done through this difficult time for us all. At the end of the day how the fek has Neil Doncaster still got a job!

 

[Anything2]

6 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

The Belgian Arbitration Court for Sport has confirmed Waasland-Beveren with its complaint about the General Assembly of the Pro League on May 15, which decided that next season would be played with 16 although the 2019/2020 season was not yet fully completed. This means that Waasland-Beveren should not be relegated for the time being and a new General Meeting must provide a solution.
At the meeting on May 15, the professional clubs decided to accept the score of the 2019/2020 season after 29 match days as the final score. As a result, Club Brugge was declared champion, Waasland-Beveren had to drop and it was possible to play with sixteen again next season.

Shortly after the General Meeting, Waasland-Beveren had already announced that it would take legal action, but after the Belgian Competition Authority had proven the club wrong last week, the BAS was expected to follow that reasoning. But that was not the case. The BAS overturned the decisions of 15 May 2020 about the relegation of vzw Royal Football Club Red Star Waasland - Sportkring Beveren from 1A. At least, until a possible next meeting provides an outcome.

For the Pro League, this is a painful matter, the day after an agreement was reached on the composition of next season. This morning the calendar for the new season was presented.

So what's to stop the vote going the same way next time? 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Good for the Belgians. 

 

Not sure how this effects us however.

 

Well it was touted as a reason for us to "take our medicine" last week when the decision was taken to "relegate" them.

[Rods]

Liewell will be on the phone to Doncaster right now.

 

At the start of the season I said Hearts would stop 9ir to a few of my mates and here we are on the edge of doing it

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Rods

[Jamboelite]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Precedent I assume. At the very least it puts the Scottish league even more on its own.

But they dont care what anyone else does so i dont see any benefit in this decision for us.

[gnasher75]

55 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

In reference to the SPFL board and the member clubs can I remind them of  article B1 of the SPFL articles of association.

 

B1. In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.

😁

 

 

 

Can our QC chuck in to the arbitration panel discussion at some point that this needs amended to read:

 

B1. In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club and the Company shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.

[number-16]

9 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

The Belgian Arbitration Court for Sport has confirmed Waasland-Beveren with its complaint about the General Assembly of the Pro League on May 15, which decided that next season would be played with 16 although the 2019/2020 season was not yet fully completed. This means that Waasland-Beveren should not be relegated for the time being and a new General Meeting must provide a solution.
At the meeting on May 15, the professional clubs decided to accept the score of the 2019/2020 season after 29 match days as the final score. As a result, Club Brugge was declared champion, Waasland-Beveren had to drop and it was possible to play with sixteen again next season.

Shortly after the General Meeting, Waasland-Beveren had already announced that it would take legal action, but after the Belgian Competition Authority had proven the club wrong last week, the BAS was expected to follow that reasoning. But that was not the case. The BAS overturned the decisions of 15 May 2020 about the relegation of vzw Royal Football Club Red Star Waasland - Sportkring Beveren from 1A. At least, until a possible next meeting provides an outcome.

For the Pro League, this is a painful matter, the day after an agreement was reached on the composition of next season. This morning the calendar for the new season was presented.

 

But... but... but they'd already announced their fixtures?1

[Riccarton3]

I wonder what the levels of hate and spite are in Belgium? Anybody got a handle on the media, where they stand? Is there an equivalent of Tatters and McGregor? Who is the Lawwell of the Low Countries? 

[sac]

Wonder if the Belgian decision will be conveyed to the Arbitration Judges?

[JTJ]

9 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Good for the Belgians. 

 

Not sure how this effects us however.

EU Company Law is largely standardised these days - and we are still using these laws until Boris changes them. So as such it could be seen as a precedent what has happened. I doubt "Null and Void" will appeal to the Elephant in the room Peter Lawwell!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Jamboelite said:

But they dont care what anyone else does so i dont see any benefit in this decision for us.

 

It certainly doesn't hurt us though. And in the "court of public opinion" (not that that matters) it certainly shows up the SPFL and puts them out on their own. Belgium was being used against us so no reason it can't be used for us.

[neilnunb]

so we just need Amiens to win their case and then Scotland will be the ONLY country to punish teams 🤣

[Bunny Munro]

I hope that we promotion/ relegation is scrapped.

Reconstruction reattempted, and fails due to our vote.

 

Sweeeet!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, neilnunb said:

so we just need Amiens to win their case and then Scotland will be the ONLY country to punish teams 🤣

 

Amiens to that.

[HMFC01]

24 minutes ago, robbo1874 said:

The 4th Official

 

@Official_T4O

 

Huge breaking news out of Belgium. Title, relegation places voided by BAS right now. Currently, there are no champions in Belgium, no relegated teams. My exclusive reporting with 2 correspondents from Belgium.

 

No european places then I wonder.  Unless they decide that later.

[CornhillHearts]

https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20200708_96266915

[CornhillHearts]

Just now, CornhillHearts said:

https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20200708_96266915

Apologies, just realised the link has reverted the text to Dutch, there's  a translate option in the link

[Turkishcap]

If we were to win on top of it all stopping 9iar too much pleasure to contemplate right now.

[NANOJAMBO]

31 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Anything happened in the last ten pages worth catching up on??

Not really. It's mainly been about the "Tannadice Death March"  and whether there should be a welcoming committee for them when (or if) they get to Tynecastle. 

[Horatio Caine]

22 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

I presume there must be one...but does anyone know the legal definition of 'utmost good faith'?

Ask Vlad. Oh wait...

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

 

Can our QC chuck in to the arbitration panel discussion at some point that this needs amended to read:

 

B1. In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club and the Company shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.

 

Good point.

[hughesie27]

 

Waasland-Beveren: “We never gave up hope”

The relegation seemed to be a fact after Tuesday, but Waasland-Beveren still gets its gram a day later. "We never gave up hope ourselves," said club spokesman Martijn De Jonghe on Wednesday evening. “The persistent wins: the BAS decided that Waasland-Beveren was wrongly demoted. We found it very special that the calendar has already been presented, while legal proceedings are still pending. This is still a small victory, although we do not know what is yet to come. ”

 

 

 

Hopefully there will be a few grams enjoyed by us soon.

[Rick Sanchez]

Was it not those lovely Belgians who offered us legal advice? 

[RobNox]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why, it’s compensation for what we lose over the next year. At the very worst it should be all paid up by May 2021. Have they shown us any decency, why should we worry about the SPFL sinking ship? 

I think we're asking for 8% interest, that's not a bad return these days.  I'd actually be telling them to take as long as they want 🙂

[neilnunb]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

 

Waasland-Beveren: “We never gave up hope”

The relegation seemed to be a fact after Tuesday, but Waasland-Beveren still gets its gram a day later. "We never gave up hope ourselves," said club spokesman Martijn De Jonghe on Wednesday evening. “The persistent wins: the BAS decided that Waasland-Beveren was wrongly demoted. We found it very special that the calendar has already been presented, while legal proceedings are still pending. This is still a small victory, although we do not know what is yet to come. ”

 

 

 

Hopefully there will be a few grams enjoyed by us soon.

 

🤣

[Riccarton3]

9 minutes ago, CornhillHearts said:

Apologies, just realised the link has reverted the text to Dutch, there's  a translate option in the link

Wondered why my Flemish to English guide was failing. There are similarities but also differences..I like that bit above, the calendar had already been presented while legal proceedings pending. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, RobNox said:

I think we're asking for 8% interest, that's not a bad return these days.  I'd actually be telling them to take as long as they want 🙂

Now your talking 😃

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Imagine how seething they victims would be if they lost nine in a row.

 

The right decision though - I’ve said it many times on here, claiming you can have titles but no relegation is utter nonsense. Either both or neither.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Dusk_Till_Dawn

[Jamboelite]

5 minutes ago, RobNox said:

I think we're asking for 8% interest, that's not a bad return these days.  I'd actually be telling them to take as long as they want 🙂

Not a bad return its absolutely massive in current climates.

[HMFC01]

28 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

I presume there must be one...but does anyone know the legal definition of 'utmost good faith'?

 

Quick search seems to say contract law or by my definition honoring the contract or rules/articles.  So you could argue 38 games were not played out.  The voting system was flawed.  The way the resolution was constructed was against 3 partys/members.  Anything else that went on behind the scenes we don't know about.

 

Good Faith - Trust, Honor.

[Smoked-Glass]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Not at all. If our demotion is deemed illegal and reversed, SPFL will need to rectify it. We'll essentially never have been relegated.

 

Releasing fixtutmres means nothing. As do Sky in this legal case anyway.

Thanks 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Imagine how seething they victims would be if they lost nine in a row.

 

The right decision though - I’ve said it many times on here, claiming you can have titles but no relegation is utter nonsense. Either both or neither.

 

Aw naw. What if they decide to boycott Tynecastle next season?

 

[neilnunb]

Having Celtic's 9inARow voided may just make up for losing that cup final last year.

 

🤣

[Mikey1874]

18 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

No european places then I wonder.  Unless they decide that later.

 

European places are confirmed. 

 

UEFA made that separate to titles etc.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Mikey1874

[RobNox]

55 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

what about throwing buckets of icey cold water at them? 

 

Or could we just fart in their general direction?

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post regarding the ludicrous idea that there has to be relegation and/or promotion in football or even in a league set-up. My post was made to highlight an example of just how easy it is to create such a 'belief' in a 'hearts and minds' battle when one side has the mainstream media peddling their propaganda along with the bulk of social media. As many of our opposing supporters seem to visit here, and no doubt copy over much of what is said to their own club sites, I feel it's important that we debunk as many of the myths and downright lies as we can. You never know, some of them might start paying attention and start asking the right questions of their own supporters, and even their clubs. Not holding out much hope of that, though, but I think we must challenge the lies that have created much of the misunderstanding of what our club, and Partick Thistle, are trying to do.

[HMFC01]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

European places are confirmed. 

 

So it's just the same as the Dutch verdict?  Void but teams given Euro places?  If I remember right.  Oh, some leagues will be sweating this weekend 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, HMFC01 said:

 

So it's just the same as the Dutch verdict?  Void but teams given Euro places?  If I remember right.  Oh, some leagues will be sweating this weekend 

 

Yeah 

 

Whatever happens Celtic's Champions League place is not affected. 

 

UEFA have signed off on the SPFL European places. 

[OTT]

Whilst its encouraging from the Belgians, I'm still worried. I've got this overriding fear we could fall victim to a serious injustice (morally and ethically speaking). Lets hope our lawyers have all their i's dotted and so forth. I also hope they are acutely aware of the angle both the SPFL and Dundee utd are going to argue and are ready to counter it aggressively. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Aw naw. What if they decide to boycott Tynecastle next season?

 

 

A stadium full of 19-20,000 Jambos sound good instead!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

Whilst its encouraging from the Belgians, I'm still worried. I've got this overriding fear we could fall victim to a serious injustice (morally and ethically speaking). Lets hope our lawyers have all their i's dotted and so forth. I also hope they are acutely aware of the angle both the SPFL and Dundee utd are going to argue and are ready to counter it aggressively. 

 

Worst case we'll be in the Championship where we were very possibly heading anyhow, but with a renewed togetherness, a bit of compensation cash and the moral high ground.

[RobNox]

44 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

 

Talk about perfect timing!