CJGJ Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The stupidity of walking to Tynecastle beggars belief which would be multiplied ten fold if the police allow it to proceed Don't anyone tell me its a sign of support..its a sign of some fans looking to create trouble by provoking a response Truly I BEGIN TO DISLIKE THEM MORE AND MORE Oh and those clubs making contributions should be open and honest about who they are and how much they are contributing...just how happy are some fans going to be knowing their money is going somewhere else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 36 minutes ago, Poseidon said: No reason to at all, I can just see Ann being open to it. I think she may well have run out of patience with them and is past caring about being amenable to these idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, gnasher75 said: That is 100% Neil Doncaster's intention but the decision will be made by the arbitration panel and if they go for reinstatement or reconstruction, the fixtures will have to be re-done. If the SPFL was serious about treating clubs with the utmost good faith they would have waited until the case had been heard before publishing the fixtures. Exactly Donkey and his Celtic Connections are just trying to railroad it through there could be an open bus parade when we win this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, RobNox said: Also, despite the opposing QCs arguing strongly against it, the judge upheld our petition for release of key documents. correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: They really did. Almost like they have something to hide.. Or it might be simply they are not used to it. Reacting like it's an insult. It gives an insight into their MO. Used to operating without scrutiny. Can't even do minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assessor Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 36 minutes ago, JKBMod 3 said: In reference to the Dundee sponsored walkers can I remind members of rule 13. 13. Do not encourage, condone, or attempt to justify criminal activity and do not encourage, condone, or attempt to justify violence. Still be able to track their progress and location and cheer them on surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, assessor said: Still be able to track their progress and location and cheer them on surely? Far better being totally ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said: Or it might be simply they are not used to it. Reacting like it's an insult. It gives an insight into their MO. Used to operating without scrutiny. Can't even do minutes. It's really annoying they're going to get away with no transparency again unless they really mess up and it goes to CoS after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, assessor said: Still be able to track their progress and location and cheer them on surely? I would ignore them. It's a deliberately provocative thing they're doing. Don't rise to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 28 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said: I assume because fixtures are out and 1st batch of sky games picked, league reconstruction isn't an option anymore? It's either compensation or nothing. The answer to your question lies in the second word of your OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said: Leslie Deans has asked me to post his final comments on jkb due to the backlash and sustained criticism posted by fellow members when the information, received and posted in good faith, has turned out to be incorrect. This basically comes down to the underhand tactics adopted by chairman when saying they’ll act one way but in fact act the complete opposite. There is no legislation that covers this. We all have the clubs best interests at heart, yet some of the abuse levelled at certain posters has left a bad taste in the mouth when all one is trying to do is keep members informed of proceedings. As follows:- I have reluctantly decided to refrain from making further detailed comment on Kickback about the ongoing litigation/arbitration. Certain posters clearly object to your posting my remarks and I regard their personal abuse as offensive. Whilst I understand their frustration that the anticipated reconstruction never got off the ground ,the information provided to me was passed on in good faith. I was not the only one taken aback by the news that only 16 out of 42 clubs supported this. Like others of my generation, my mastery of technology is not the best so thank you for lodging my comments. I should also congratulate certain posters-- David McCaig, Footbalfirst, Ethan Hunt, Hibsarepants come to mind amongst others, -- who continue to offer incisive and insightful comment on complex issues I stated publicly on BBC radio that I believed we had a good case. David Thomson QC explained clearly in his opinion on Patrick Thistle 's website that the motion of April 10 had failed. He was clear in his view of the Dundee vote. Additionally the SPFL executive induced its members to vote in a certain way by virtue of its misrepresentation and withholding of relevant information in its advice paper of April 8. What follows is whether Hearts and PT suffered unfair prejudice as defined in the Companies Act. I believe they did. To change the rules from a 38 to a 30 game season part way through is inherently unfair if it leads to relegation , as admitted by at least one SPFL director. The prejudice is the major loss of income suffered by being in a lower and shortened league. With unfair prejudice established I anticipate the tribunal should find in favour of Hearts and PT. The tribunal should comprise 3 experienced independent lawyers and I have no qualms or concerns that we will get a fair hearing. Any manifest legal errors will mean it's referred back to Lord Clark. Others have said, rightly in my opinion, that there will be bad blood between clubs going forward. I hope in the fullness of time others might recognise that we fought for what is right and if changes are then made as a result , there could be a major benefit to football as a whole. Les Deans Don't think Les was doing anything other than saying what he knew or what he got told. Shame some posters can't help themselves but don't think it's a reason for him to stop relaying his thoughts. There'll always be a percent of folk moaning about something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsuperslim1874 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, gnasher75 said: That is 100% Neil Doncaster's intention but the decision will be made by the arbitration panel and if they go for reinstatement or reconstruction, the fixtures will have to be re-done. If the SPFL was serious about treating clubs with the utmost good faith they would have waited until the case had been heard before publishing the fixtures. Doncaster was also quoted as saying they would just have to deal with it when/if we win our case. So potentially a delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmcjambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CJGJ said: The stupidity of walking to Tynecastle beggars belief which would be multiplied ten fold if the police allow it to proceed Don't anyone tell me its a sign of support..its a sign of some fans looking to create trouble by provoking a response Truly I BEGIN TO DISLIKE THEM MORE AND MORE Oh and those clubs making contributions should be open and honest about who they are and how much they are contributing...just how happy are some fans going to be knowing their money is going somewhere else What would the press make of it if Hearts fans protested by walking to Easter Road? I get they want to raise money for their club but to walk to our ground is just stupid and antagonistic. It's completely unnecessary and it insinuates that the issue they have is with our football club, not the SPFL, not what the other clubs voted for. I don't wish them any ill will, but it is a stupid thing they are doing. Edited July 8, 2020 by Gmcjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie rd eh11 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: I would ignore them. It's a deliberately provocative thing they're doing. Don't rise to it. I think pointing and laughing at the thick ****s would be the appropriate response. They're obviously happy with the corruption in Scottish football so ridiculing them seems right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Lone Striker said: Definitely. SJ is definitely in the JKB "Premiership" of posters.... while most of us mere mortals barely make it into League 2. Heck, a few are even stranded in the Lowland League . Some are in the East Lothian Primary Schools netball league! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, JKBMod 3 said: In reference to the Dundee sponsored walkers can I remind members of rule 13. 13. Do not encourage, condone, or attempt to justify criminal activity and do not encourage, condone, or attempt to justify violence. what about throwing buckets of icey cold water at them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained One Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, RobNox said: Also, despite the opposing QCs arguing strongly against it, the judge upheld our petition for release of key documents. Think the deadline for the release of documents was today. Let's hope they feck this up or try and withhold something. Could be back in front of Lord Clark quicker than a sponsored walk from Tannadice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Gambo said: Surely we have a strong case on the arguement that when Covid halted the league, neither ourselves, PTFC, SFC, were mathematically relegated, same as CFC, DUFC, RRFC, CRFC were not mathematically champions. Null and void and no teams were deliberately hurt. Nothing made up or guessed at, just plain simple facts. What they did was to deliberatley hurt teams by making up relegation, their guess work hurt teams unnecessarily, no facts to go on just pure guess work that hurt other teams. They didn't have to null & void the season , IMO, this is a myth (and there were compelling commercial reasons for the SPFL & clubs for not doing so) but there is/was no reason to not "call" the leagues as they stood at the point of the lockdown without having promotion & relegation. The SPFL wants everyone to believe the relegation & promotion HAD to go ahead - but how could it when the clubs had been denied the chance to complete the season (and the PPG was intended ONLY to get clubs officially over the line eg Celtic into the Champs League). It completely defies logic. Abandon a competition 75% complete and hand out prizes as though nothing had happened? Promotion & relegation comes about as a result of COMPLETING the competition not an arbitrary PPG and then newly acquired powers by the clubs after that event to relegate. Whatever way this pans out I'm so glad AB had the financial clout to call this lot out and given their continued scheming re Board acquisition of powers to decide for the coming season, this should make them very wary of how they proceed in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said: They didn't have to null & void the season , IMO, this is a myth (and there were compelling commercial reasons for the SPFL & clubs for not doing so) but there is/was no reason to not "call" the leagues as they stood at the point of the lockdown without having promotion & relegation. The SPFL wants everyone to believe the relegation & promotion HAD to go ahead - but how could it when the clubs had been denied the chance to complete the season (and the PPG was intended ONLY to get clubs officially over the line eg Celtic into the Champs League). It completely defies logic. Abandon a competition 75% complete and hand out prizes as though nothing had happened? Promotion & relegation comes about as a result of COMPLETING the competition not an arbitrary PPG and then newly acquired powers by the clubs after that event to relegate. Whatever way this pans out I'm so glad AB had the financial clout to call this lot out and given their continued scheming re Board acquisition of powers to decide for the coming season, this should make them very wary of how they proceed in future. An important point other clubs may end up thanking us for in future but won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said: What would the press make of it if Hearts fans protested by walking to Easter Road? I get they want to raise money for their club but to walk to our ground is just stupid and antagonistic. It's completely unnecessary and it insinuates that the issue they have is with our football club, not the SPFL, not what the other clubs voted for. I don't wish them any ill will, but it is a stupid thing they are doing. Sums up the mentality. Stunted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Anything happened in the last ten pages worth catching up on?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cruyff said: what about throwing buckets of icey cold water at them? Or waving £5 notes at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, David McCaig said: I think the updates from LD have been appreciated by everyone on this board bar the trolls. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Cruyff said: what about throwing buckets of icey cold water at them? Best if they are completely ignored. Goading us into a reaction is exactly what want, & the shitty press would lap it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 When is the line-up being announced and the kick-off? Fed up waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo1874 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo1874 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The 4th Official @Official_T4O Huge breaking news out of Belgium. Title, relegation places voided by BAS right now. Currently, there are no champions in Belgium, no relegated teams. My exclusive reporting with 2 correspondents from Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, robbo1874 said: https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said: They didn't have to null & void the season , IMO, this is a myth (and there were compelling commercial reasons for the SPFL & clubs for not doing so) but there is/was no reason to not "call" the leagues as they stood at the point of the lockdown without having promotion & relegation. The SPFL wants everyone to believe the relegation & promotion HAD to go ahead - but how could it when the clubs had been denied the chance to complete the season (and the PPG was intended ONLY to get clubs officially over the line eg Celtic into the Champs League). It completely defies logic. Abandon a competition 75% complete and hand out prizes as though nothing had happened? Promotion & relegation comes about as a result of COMPLETING the competition not an arbitrary PPG and then newly acquired powers by the clubs after that event to relegate. Whatever way this pans out I'm so glad AB had the financial clout to call this lot out and given their continued scheming re Board acquisition of powers to decide for the coming season, this should make them very wary of how they proceed in future. I don’t think we should underestimate the bit in bold. The football authorities will think twice about shafting us again in future. Once they have announced no promotions/relegations for season 20-21 ! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained One Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, robbo1874 said: https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisyboy7 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, robbo1874 said: https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 This is correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, robbo1874 said: The 4th Official @Official_T4O Huge breaking news out of Belgium. Title, relegation places voided by BAS right now. Currently, there are no champions in Belgium, no relegated teams. My exclusive reporting with 2 correspondents from Belgium. Delightful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Gee whiz...wait till we seek injunction and stop the carousel. Then the fur will fly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, graygo said: Or waving £5 notes at them. Now that would provoke a response from John Nelms....hed be after it like a kid at a poor-oot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, robbo1874 said: https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Belgian ruling very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Not supportive of the welcoming committee idea but if ever there was a time for the plane hirers to make amends with a suitable message for the walkers, this is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 36 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: This is my preferred outcome. Reconstruction will surely be forced through in that case and we get the incredible scenes of the likes of D Utd and Raith backtracking for our viewing pleasure. Yup! And we'll be the bad guys which is just genius!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, TheBigO said: Yup! And we'll be the bad guys which is just genius!! It's like win, win, win, win and a bunch more wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dagger Is Back said: They're only doing what we would have done in a similar situation ... Can't find any anger in my soul for them quite honestly. This is it. The SPFL are to blame for deliberately setting clubs at each other's throats, and forcing fans to be bitter about each other's words and actions (which doesn't take a lot of doing admittedly). But it is the SPFL who are originally at fault in all of this. Not Dundee Utd. Not Dundee. Not Raith Rovers. Not Cove, Elgin, Hibs or any of the other little clubs wanting their 15 minutes of fame. It's true that lots of them, when placed in a totally unnecessary situation by the SPFL, have compounded matters by acting in a selfish, vindictive or downright bizarre fashion - but the point is, they should never have been put in that position in the first place. Everyone's anger should be reserved for the SPFL and Doncaster. One day the penny will drop with the vast majority of other clubs. Edited July 8, 2020 by Hackney Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, robbo1874 said: https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/1280932724287684611?s=20 Oof. Things just got interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, graygo said: In reference to the SPFL board and the member clubs can I remind them of article B1 of the SPFL articles of association. B1. In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith. 😁 I presume there must be one...but does anyone know the legal definition of 'utmost good faith'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Boof said: I presume there must be one...but does anyone know the legal definition of 'utmost good faith'? It's a typical contractual catch all statement which in essence means, "don't be a dick". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsmad1874 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Remember the 15th May vote in Belgium? The absolute humongous mess. If not, remember this article by our Belgian correspondent. Saying it was a clusterf*ck would not be far from the truth. Just recently the Belgian Competition Authority ruled at the start of this month that stopping the relegation of Waasland-Beveren would be unjustified as it is too big of an advantage for a temporary measure until they give a final verdict (which takes months or years depending on the case). It seems there has been a dramatic u-turn though just now. After that ruling from the Competition Authority, the BAS was expected to follow that and make everything formal. That is not what happened, though. Having spoken with 2 Belgian correspondents (one of them is a Waasland-Beveren fan), it seems BAS stood with Waasland-Beveren and declared the Pro League's decision of 15th of May void. According to one of our Belgian correspondent, ''If I assume correctly, all decisions taken on the 15th are now void, and every decision has to be re-voted for. This includes the title (is or isn't there a champion crowed for this season) and the competition formula for next season (16/18 teams, will there be play-offs and if so, in what way).'' Also, our other Belgian correspondent added, ''Well this could be the case, as the media has said that the decision is a document of 150 pages and the lawyers of all the parties are researching what exactly this decision means and what exactly is void. But it seems like (part of) the decisions on the 15th of May will have to be made again/voted on again.'' He continued: ''The funny thing is, yesterday there was a general assembly where they had the chance to vote for 18 teams, resolving everything. But because the Competition Authority said that putting Beveren in the 1st division would be a big advantage given by them, so they thought the BAS would say the same and just follow them and rule that the decisions on 15th of May are correct. But in the decision of the Competition Authority, it also stated that giving money to teams wasn't correct for example; it wasn't a complete "loss" for Beveren, just the advice to put us in the first division wasn't expressed.'' As things stand, the league winners, relegated places are all void, and we will need a new vote. Complete and utter chaos and nobody knows what is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Hackney Hearts said: This is it. The SPFL are to blame for deliberately setting clubs at each other's throats, and forcing fans to be bitter about other each other's words and actions (which doesn't take a lot of doing admittedly). But it is the SPFL who are originally at fault in all of this. Not Dundee Utd. Not Dundee. Not Raith Rovers. Not Cove, Elgin, Hibs or any of the other little clubs wanting their 15 minutes of fame. It's true that lots of them, when placed in a totally unnecessary situation by the SPFL, have compounded matters by acting in a selfish, vindictive or downright bizarre fashion - but the point is, they should never have been put in that position in the first place. Everyone's anger should be reserved for the SPFL and Doncaster. One day the penny will drop with the vast majority of other clubs. When we win our case, I guarantee that ALL the clubs, the mouthy Club Directors, BBC Glasgow and the rest of the MSM will immediately direct their ire at Doncaster and his cohorts. There will be no further mention of big, bad Hearts. Mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazinho88 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, robbo1874 said: The 4th Official @Official_T4O Huge breaking news out of Belgium. Title, relegation places voided by BAS right now. Currently, there are no champions in Belgium, no relegated teams. My exclusive reporting with 2 correspondents from Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The Belgian Arbitration Court for Sport has confirmed Waasland-Beveren with its complaint about the General Assembly of the Pro League on May 15, which decided that next season would be played with 16 although the 2019/2020 season was not yet fully completed. This means that Waasland-Beveren should not be relegated for the time being and a new General Meeting must provide a solution. At the meeting on May 15, the professional clubs decided to accept the score of the 2019/2020 season after 29 match days as the final score. As a result, Club Brugge was declared champion, Waasland-Beveren had to drop and it was possible to play with sixteen again next season. Shortly after the General Meeting, Waasland-Beveren had already announced that it would take legal action, but after the Belgian Competition Authority had proven the club wrong last week, the BAS was expected to follow that reasoning. But that was not the case. The BAS overturned the decisions of 15 May 2020 about the relegation of vzw Royal Football Club Red Star Waasland - Sportkring Beveren from 1A. At least, until a possible next meeting provides an outcome. For the Pro League, this is a painful matter, the day after an agreement was reached on the composition of next season. This morning the calendar for the new season was presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, graygo said: What happens to 'winners ' from the league below? Are they walking to Wasland -Beveren? Edited July 8, 2020 by Riccarton3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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