SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, tynietigers said:

I will repeat we are never winning 8mill because no fans are getting especially if a second wave hits 😬 2 mill max.

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, jambo3tevie said:

I think it was David Winnie that said the 8 mill was conservative but not 100% sure mate

It was Paul Reid, the QC Sportsound invited on at the weekend.

[tynietigers]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Any deductions made from our compensation, due to a delay in paying spectators being able to attend any division, would be fair enough. I really don't think Hearts would expect anything else. But the broadcasting revenue loss part of the claim, from being in a lower league, would not be affected.

There are many factors to our claim, not just the cash from paying punters. Some of those factors probably aren't really known for sure yet. 

Again, the simplest solution for every club is reconstruction, so that no club suffers any more than it has to, due to this shutdown. No compensation calculations and predictions necessary. Plain to see, for those who want to see.

100% but they are just being stubborn now and saying it can’t happen 🙄 all they had to do was have no relegation but promote the winners of each league and have 13,10,10,10 but that was really to easy especially if it was so easy just to have 27 games in the championship 😳

[TyphoonJambo]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

I cant believe, you cant believe the spfl dont make stupid decisions 

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

Reconstruction is off the table, too late now,  Not our worry if we are re-instated or settle for compensation,  But we get to sit back and let others argue that point out, and the fall out will be huge

[Boyces beard]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

It was Paul Reid, the QC Sportsound invited on at the weekend.

That will be a few lawyers that have same opinion which can only be a good thing. David Winnie said the same about 3 weeks ago, also on Sportsound

[Last Laff]

5 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Actualy NO it was the tame QC/Lawyer the BBC had,  and they baulked at that comment, The sniggering stopped! he also stated that the number we came up with is not plucked out of the air but actual running expenses and loss of income by their decision, and that it would have been an evaluation done by a recognised arbitrar/auditor

And you think the panel won’t take into consideration the losses of current top league teams when looking into how much we are possibly going to lose?  We are actually lucky in the fact that if we go down this season it will be a relatively short profit v loss to any other season in history because of the support situation.  Our profit margin would be hit considerably in the top league regardless (unless including outside investment which I don’t think we need to). 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

I suspect that, just like Celtic and their money spinning friendlies, Hearts will seek, and be given, a couple of weeks (maybe more, maybe less) off to prepare for their first match. As ever, even in this statement that kind of acknowledges it might go our way, Doncaster is trying to paint Hearts as the big bad bullies spoiling it (delaying the start of the season) for everybody else.

Yep, assuming our way.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It will be funny if we get £8m because I can’t even begin to imagine how the clubs would scrape that together. £200k per club. Sair yin

[hmfc1984]

1 hour ago, rambothejambo said:

 

Easy tiger! Unforunately the Royal Marines are part of the Navy, so I take offence at that insult  Seriously they are feckin useless, only good for getting us guys to where we need to go! As for the RAF, it's just not fair that they get treated like adults!

I think we can all agree on this 😂

As for the RN we're not all bad. As an ex submariner we like to distance ourselves from our surface 'aka targets' fleet.

 

I do seem to remember you bootnecks accidentally invading Spain once though, guess the RN dropped you off in the wrong part of the sea? 🤔😂

[tynietigers]

1 hour ago, 1874robbo said:

And what if a decision is made that there’ll be no promotion or relegation this season due to it only being a 27 game league.

Well they have sort of covered their arse with this saying that they now have the right to do this 🙄 is it right, no but they will say that is just tough titties and it will be the same in all league and nobody will be champions. But there lies the Problem of TV money 💰 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, tynietigers said:

Well they have sort of covered their arse with this saying that they now have the right to do this 🙄 is it right, no but they will say that is just tough titties and it will be the same in all league and nobody will be champions. But there lies the Problem of TV money 💰 

It would be a disgrace if that happened but this being Scottish football, it’s not at all unlikely

[tynietigers]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Ok, but what experience do you have of quantification of damages in court cases? I doubt they just use a cashflow statement... Hearts turnover grew £3m last year alone.

Yes but it won’t be judge on just one year 👍🏻

[Last Laff]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It will be funny if we get £8m because I can’t even begin to imagine how the clubs would scrape that together. £200k per club. Sair yin

It would be funny but highly unrealistic.  I’ll get shot down by the hot shots on here and then when we get a settlement it will be back to the “I think that’s what we all expected the outcome to be anyway  ) 

[JimmyCant]

Just now, TypoonJambo said:

I cant believe, you cant believe the spfl dont make stupid decisions 

We’ll so far the stupid decisions have us firmly in the championship with little more than a derisory parachute payment. At least one of those stupid decisions has to be held as both stupid and illegal before that will change.

[RobboM]

4 minutes ago, jambo3tevie said:

I think it was David Winnie that said the 8 mill was conservative but not 100% sure mate

Lets say we win compensation and it is awarded at £8m. Would that figure be reduced if we were judged eg 50% at fault for being in the relegation spot. Meaning there would be a 50/50 chance of us being liable and suffering those losses if the season had played out?

[Rods]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

 

I can believe it as Doncaster has already stated that its the clubs money and he is only enacting their wishes regarding no restructure. He has messed up( Maybe) and he has maneuvered this round so it looks as though its all on Hearts then if that part fails he will sweep in and say I only act upon yours the clubs wishes. 

 

Credit where it is due he knows how to work things and manipulate situations using the media and some chairman.  

 

The biggest thing I notice since we went to court was how less vocal the Ayr and Ross County chairman have been. This will be in fear of them being rounded on by other clubs. 

 

I can see why the calpol 3 want to be at the meetings as they are well aware on how slimy Doncaster can be and they know well fine he will throw them under a bus to save his own skin.

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, jambo3tevie said:

That will be a few lawyers that have same opinion which can only be a good thing. David Winnie said the same about 3 weeks ago, also on Sportsound

David Winnie not got a feckin scooby doo. 

[tynietigers]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

I agree once again 👍🏻 But there has been no logic in any of this 🙄

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

It would be funny but highly unrealistic.  I’ll get shot down by the hot shots on here and then when we get a settlement it will be back to the “I think that’s what we all expected the outcome to be anyway  ) 

I don’t see it being £8m either tbh. If arbitration upholds the SPFL decision then I doubt we’ll get owt 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

43 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Just for avoidance of doubt. 1st prize is we get reinstated, 2nd Prize is compensation.

If the Calpol 3 contests it, here are the outcomes:

1.       We win re-instatement, The Calpol 3 pay for that privilege by all legal fees,  £300k No calpol 3

2.       We win compensation to the max, The Calpol 3 pay the legal fees, and 40 clubs have to find £250k each, 4 clubs left in the league!  That’s a whopping £350k per Calp?

3.       We win 50% compensation,  The Calpol 3 pay the legal fees, and 40 clubs have to find £125k each, 10 clubs left in the league!,  

4.       We win 20% compensation,  The Calpol 3 pay the legal fees, and 40 clubs have to find £50k each, 20 clubs left in the league?

5.       We lose outright we lose, we play Championship football

If the Calpol 3 Don’t contest it here are the outcomes:

1.       We win re-instatement, all clubs pay for that  privilege by all legal fees,  £8k each

2.       We win compensation to the max, 40 clubs have to find £257k each, 4 clubs left in the league!,  

3.       We win 50% compensation,  40 clubs have to find £132k each, 10 clubs left in the league!,  

4.       We win 20% compensation,  40 clubs have to find £57k each, 20 clubs left in the league?

5.       We lose outright can’t happen, its uncontested.

For clarity, 1st prize is the best option for us and the league, 2nd Prize is ruinous but the courts won’t care, emotion is out of it, it’s just business, we have to go with the cost that’s best for us, and we have to ensure that it covers 2 seasons, as the league will vote to keep us out, We need that insurance policy.  The Calpol 3 have to win outright, or its just Cove the Calpol 1.  Its down to the clubs to keep themselves afloat, they had the chance for reconstruction what did they think would happen , and the courts cant go for what might happen, they will apply the letter of the law

Is this documented anywhere?

[Deevers]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

It was Paul Reid, the QC Sportsound invited on at the weekend.

Winnie definitely said that 8 million could be a conservative estimate - it fair took the wind out of Dick Gordon’s sails.

 

Paul Reid also said that compensation would undoubtedly be considerable.

[DETTY29]

Listened to yesterday's podcast for first time.

 

Just wow.  Kenny McIntyre his usual gormless self, Chris McLaughlin only taking into account the part's of Lord Clark's submission that might benefit the SPFL and no recognition of concessions Hearts and Partick got or that while yes, we need to abide by football rules, these rules need to be backed by legalese (made up word?)

 

But worst of all and unless I'm wrong, chairmen saying saying that if Hearts and Partick win compensation they may well to be very likely go out of business but still are digging their own heels in of 'get on with it and accept it Hearts/Partick.

 

If and it is a huge if, for any interlopers, if compensation is awarded which leads to your club going out of business look closer to home and not Gorgie or Maryhill.

Edited July 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Boyces beard]

Just now, Cruyff said:

David Winnie not got a feckin scooby doo. 

Yeh he didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the box,  i think that was due to him not being able to comment on an on going legal case. He certainly knows more than most of us tbh and he shut that clown Gordon right up when he told them the £8 mill was a conservative estimate.

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I don’t see it being £8m either tbh. If arbitration upholds the SPFL decision then I doubt we’ll get owt 

Of course we’ll get nothing. We’ll have lost the case. That’s a very possible outcome let’s not forget that before we go adding up compensation.

[Boyces beard]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I don’t see it being £8m either tbh. If arbitration upholds the SPFL decision then I doubt we’ll get owt 

This is what i fear the outcome will be but hopefully im wrong. I just think these corrupt ****ers will find an out but i realy hope they dont.

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, jambo3tevie said:

Yeh he didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the box,  i think that was due to him not being able to comment on an on going legal case. He certainly knows more than most of us tbh and he shut that clown Gordon right up when he told them the £8 mill was a conservative estimate.

Some of the posters on here are definitely more clued up than David Winnie. Any money we seek needs to be quantified and all expenses proven. David Winnie talks shit. 

[ericb]

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

[kingantti1874]

We can borrow the £8m, SPFL Agree to pay back the loan and the interest for TV revenues spread over the next 5years  👍🏻 Job done.. game not bankrupt 

[Boyces beard]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

Some of the posters on here are definitely more clued up than David Winnie. Any money we seek needs to be quantified and all expenses proven. David Winnie talks shit. 

No doubt, hence why i said most of us.

[DETTY29]

21 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

It appeared from yesterday Sportsound that many chairs views are entrenched now and yep they will take the risk.

 

There is no guarantee, but there is a very small wind of change coming immediately and bigger ones medium to long term, imo.

 

Cowdenbeath going out of the box due to Hearts is a far better solution to Donald Findlay than being overtaken by Kelty in the short term on the pitch.  Same for Elgin with Brora.  And Albion, and Annan, and Stenhousemuir and so on... (Edit and that doesn't even take into account the West, East Junior teams)

 

By the end of this 5 year Sky package some of these 'smaller' clubs need to be wary.  If Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs, Rangers, Motherwell, Kilmarnock and even the Dundee clubs settle their differences, change imo will be coming for the 2025+ TV deal.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Captain Canada]

2 minutes ago, ericb said:

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

 

Yeah United have a team in the top two divisions though. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Is this documented anywhere?

No its my fag packet accountancy, but the numbers speak for themselves, based on £10m for both us and PT, down to 20% award, the figure is scaleable,  Its not rocket salad, I do this at work all the time, create a sliding scale of contractual disputes, and likley expenses, but its not plucked out of the air,  But the other clubs need to know what they COULD be laible for and have to work out worst case? Best case is they have to fork out something, and thats just tough titties?

Its risk management v risk avoidance.

 

if I was a Killie or  St Johnstone, I will be asking doncaster whats the likelyhood that they win outright with/without the C3 contesting it.  If its between a slinding scale of £8k to £250K compared to re-instatement at Zero cost.  I would be on the blower telling him to fecking sort it out now.  The calpol 3 sould apply for compensation, they would get it, but why should we worry, happy to pay our share.

 

Also it should be noted, that the court fees are immediate?  The compensation is negotiated as to when and how its paid?  They will want it out of the TV money, but is it divided equaly 1/40th or based on last years league standings, You will hear from Celtic on that one!  If we want it now and all at once?  remember SDM too out Airdrie for only £30k

[jambo1998]

4 minutes ago, ericb said:

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

Strange

[Garrincha]

20 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

I’m sure our losses will include things like compensation for the loss of our manager due to the relegation release clause, possibly even our costs in recruiting a replacement. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

19 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I am pretty sure Hearts will have calculated the culpable losses in full and can justify every penny. If we win the financial compensation case only there would be no excuse or reason not to pay in full.

 

If they want to avoid the possibility of an £8million pay out, they need to settle this case and quickly. I still can’t believe they are taking a 50-50 case to the brink like this, risking the existence of many clubs when an enforced 14-10-10-10 calls the dogs off

Because they’ve survived every step so far. For all the pressure, they haven’t conceded any ground and their counter argument to yours would be that if Hearts lose, the season starts in August regardless and they don’t have to make a significant pay-out or upset other clubs by forcing through reconstruction.

 

If the SPFL lose then the embarrassment to them will be huge. But if they don’t, they’ll tell us they’ve been vindicated. You know how it works.

[neilnunb]

5 minutes ago, ericb said:

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

 

Partick in the Championship and Shameless Raith in League One.

 

Sounds fine.

 

😃

[Boyces beard]

6 minutes ago, ericb said:

A wee look at the SPFL website shows HMFC not listed in any league, maybe we're expelled already! https://spfl.co.uk/

lol they have Dundee United in both the prem and the championship

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, TypoonJambo said:

Hey, dont rope me in with those rum bum and backy boys. 

Us RAF, we dont dig in, we check in😁

Minimum 4 fekkin star establishments only too.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

No its my fag packet accountancy, but the numbers speak for themselves, based on £10m for both us and PT, down to 20% award, the figure is scaleable,  Its not rocket salad, I do this at work all the time, create a sliding scale of contractual disputes, and likley expenses, but its not plucked out of the air,  But the other clubs need to know what they COULD be laible for and have to work out worst case? Best case is they have to fork out something, and thats just tough titties?

Its risk management v risk avoidance.

 

if I was a Killie or  St Johnstone, I will be asking doncaster whats the likelyhood that they win outright with/without the C3 contesting it.  If its between a slinding scale of £8k to £250K compared to re-instatement at Zero cost.  I would be on the blower telling him to fecking sort it out now.  The calpol 3 sould apply for compensation, they would get it, but why should we worry, happy to pay our share.

 

Also it should be noted, that the court fees are immediate?  The compensation is negotiated as to when and how its paid?  They will want it out of the TV money, but is it divided equaly 1/40th or based on last years league standings, You will hear from Celtic on that one!  If we want it now and all at once?  remember SDM too out Airdrie for only £30k

It’s all guess work though without knowing what the SFA’s protocol with awards is (unless you do know that, in which case apologies).

 

We’re seeing all this from an HMFC perspective. The attitude of the SPFL at large might be that Hearts are likely to lose this case. So they might not think the risk is that high.

[neilnunb]

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-united-raith-rovers-and-cove-rangers-will-continue-fight-tribunal-approaches-2907423

 

 

[jamboman9]

5 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-united-raith-rovers-and-cove-rangers-will-continue-fight-tribunal-approaches-2907423

 

 

Hell mend em.

 

[Rick Sanchez]

I hope Ann and our lawyers have that footage from PLZ I posted, with that Hugh MacDonald saying he'd spoken to chairman who would never be seen to vote for anything that was seen to benefit Hearts or ICT.

 

100% clear prejudice. Get him on the stand.

[manaliveits105]

So not only have the Calpol 3 and some other clubs  voted out of self interest to harm at least 3 fellow clubs during a national pandemic instead of taking the option that caused no harm to anyone they are clubbing together to try and ensure that this harm is definitely inflicted during a national pandemic - there are no words to describe the disgusting snidey cowards who inhabit Scottish Football and hopefully many of them perish but they will never be forgiven and we shall hate them until infinity and feck them over at every given opportunity .

[Heartsmad1874]

12 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-united-raith-rovers-and-cove-rangers-will-continue-fight-tribunal-approaches-2907423

 

 

 

It’s not being determined on football, it’s being determined on company law - whether the SPFL have broken any law and whether the clubs have voted for Hearts and Partick to be relegated in a manner which was prejudiced against them. 

 

“It’s all in company law, not really anything about the rights and wrongs football wise, it’s a question of did we as SPFL shareholders vote in a prejudiced way .

 

“Hearts and Partick’s QC has asked for a whole lot of documentary evidence about decisions that were made going right back to the first resolution when 81 percent of clubs agreed the league should finish. 

 

“The main thing they will get at is the SPFL and the Dundee vote and whether that was legal or not which could affect our position. 
 

 

 

 

[Ethan Hunt]

12 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

The target!!!

 

Typical Dundee Utd, need £100,000 plus and they set a target of £1,000.

 

Look at us!  We're  as big as Hearts.

 

Sorry  lots of zeroes missing for you to come close. 

 

In fairness to the guys they are only doing their bit. A bit contrition is required sometimes. Remember we as fans did a multitude of fundraising things when our club was in trouble. Regardless of Dundee United’s issues, two of their fans have stood up an done their bit, exactly the same as we would if Hearts asked us for money for legal costs. Personally I take my hat off to them.

[Captain Canada]

17 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-united-raith-rovers-and-cove-rangers-will-continue-fight-tribunal-approaches-2907423

 

 

 

My heart bleeds at the bit about them not being able to sign players because of the uncertainty about which division they'll be in. 

 

The same goes for us and Partick.

 

I think Raith in particular have come out of this really badly. Acting like they have a God-given right to promotion because they had a one point lead at the time of a global health emergency. 

[Hashimoto]

5 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

It’s not being determined on football, it’s being determined on company law - whether the SPFL have broken any law and whether the clubs have voted for Hearts and Partick to be relegated in a manner which was prejudiced against them. 

 

“It’s all in company law, not really anything about the rights and wrongs football wise, it’s a question of did we as SPFL shareholders vote in a prejudiced way .

 

“Hearts and Partick’s QC has asked for a whole lot of documentary evidence about decisions that were made going right back to the first resolution when 81 percent of clubs agreed the league should finish. 

 

“The main thing they will get at is the SPFL and the Dundee vote and whether that was legal or not which could affect our position. 
 

 

 

 

At long last the thicko's are beginning the realise that footballing interest is not the issue at hand here, nor has it ever been!. The only reason I can see that the Calpol 3 are continuing the legal fight is that they are now being financed by a 3rd party (any guesses?) and not risking the little funds that they have.
Lets sit back and enjoy, and hope that Hearts / PT have demanded the right documents!
 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Raith chairman thinks it’s 50/50 on the outcome of legal action. I think that’s probably about right    as there is no legal precedent for the arbitration panel to follow.

 

Regarding the calculation of the compensation claim I would say that it would be fairly easy to calculate. Just compare our income in the Championship year to our income last year then adjust for Hibs and Rangers being in the Championship and the season being shorter than usual. 
 

I would think that once you do that calculation it’s about £8 million. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Don't have a problem with the 3 clubs funding and arguing the point of view they hold as is their right ,have a problem with them point scoring and blaming us and Partick for the cost as if it was something out of the blue .

Arabs should really look at their own house 3m+ debt 133% wage bill ,are the US owners building a house on sand for them ?.

 

 

Clearly the are acting in a sense of fear as the are not fully sure if the SPFL behaviour was correct and lawful .