Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Nookie Bear]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Agreed but I think that’s why she asked for the 50% cut, is suspending their wages not just giving us a huge bill down the line too? 

 

Did she ask or did she give them the option of taking the cut or walking away?

 

 

[Kidd’s Boots]

The PFA Scotland statement is deliberately vague, but at the same time maybe gives the impression that it represents more members than it actually does on this matter. ...... " has been instructed by Hearts players" could be as few as 2 or as many as 22. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

13 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 When is comes down to it, football is a distraction.  Like most sports.  Just a distraction.

 

This virus may change football forever.

 

Say we get no football till next year.  Lots of clubs go bust in Scotland, which is what I think will happen.  But only when the clubs down south start struggling to pay their huge wages, will it start the real panic.  People are already cancelling sports tv packages, as there is no sport to watch.  This will have a huge knock on effect if no games are played until next year.  No tv money, nobody betting......

 

 

 

 

Have a look at Bet 365 front page.  I wonder how much money they are taking in on Eastern European table tennis 

 

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, Squirt said:

Argyll & Bute mate. Not ideal considering it’s not particularly rife there as far as I know. 

👍

 

[Lovecraft]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

Have a look at Bet 365 front page.  I wonder how much money they are taking in on Eastern European table tennis 

 

 Esoccer has finally made the big time

 

 

[Squirt]

39 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Hope your mates ok bud. 

 

Thanks man.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, Lovecraft said:

 Esoccer has finally made the big time

 

 

Fancy a wager!!! Staying up until midnight to watch it unfold 

 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, CloustonHMFC said:

They can’t sue, article 12 is entirely legal. 

 

Guess thats what happens when you sign a contract and your sole focus is on the zeros.

 

What a shame...

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

True. I would sack everyone unwilling to take a cut now though - for their good and the club's. Whether the money to pay deferred wages comes from FoH out of necessity next season or just through ST sales, it would be an incredible insult for the players to take money off fans who will almost all have taken a huge financial hit while the players lose nothing. I don't see how any of them could show their face in Edinburgh let alone play for us again.

Vlad flu for everyone who refused. It’s only a matter of time before their names get out and they will soon realise the mistake they’ve made.

[Kidd’s Boots]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I don’t disagree with the principle but can we actually legally terminate their contracts?

All contracts, as per the wording of Section C Clause 12, were suspended on 13 March, unless the members of the SPFL "otherwise determined" 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Did she ask or did she give them the option of taking the cut or walking away?

 

 

I think the offer was to take the cut or negotiate the termination of their contract.

[Nookie Bear]

25 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

She probably didn’t know about Article 12 at the time and it now offers a get out clause for her.

Well it seems she has painted herself into a corner by drawing a line in the sand so early on. It should have been voluntary, and to be reviewed on a monthly basis, and only forced if nobody took up the option. 
 

And you can’t just release players from contracts without paying it up. No footballer is going to give up a years or two wages. 

[south morocco]

As some else mentioned, play the young guys, empty the lot at the first opportunity. Whenever it starts that is..

[CloustonHMFC]

Btw some of the players aren’t even in the country, if they think they should get 100% pay while disappearing for the duration they can go bolt. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

All contracts, as per the wording of Section C Clause 12, were suspended on 13 March, unless the members of the SPFL "otherwise determined" 

Yes, but not terminated as far as I read. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, CloustonHMFC said:

They can’t sue, article 12 is entirely legal. 

I’ve not seen any proof of this, football rules are in no way legally binding in the real world. If it was surely others would’ve used it by now?

Edited April 1, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think the offer was to take the cut or negotiate the termination of their contract.

But the “negotiation” would have to start with full payment of the contract, no? You can’t just sack someone who has a contract without doing so (in football)

[Jambo4050]

Granted this squad is a shower of ****, however I’m not so sure I’m appreciating the tone used by some on here. No matter how much you like it or not *most* of these lads are obviously trying to write the wrongs of the season. And at the end of the day our club gave them a contract..

[CloustonHMFC]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’ve not seen any proof of this, football rules are in no way legally binding in the real world. 

It’s reportedly in all standard player contracts in Scottish football, if that is actually the case then none of them a leg to stand on legally. They signed their contract. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

But the “negotiation” would have to start with full payment of the contract, no? You can’t just sack someone who has a contract without doing so (in football)

You can make people redundant if you can’t pay them, this was discussed earlier in this thread. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’ve not seen any proof of this, football rules are in no way legally binding in the real world. If it was surely others would’ve used it by now?

Football rules have nothing to do with it, we're talking employment contracts with provision for responding to issues in the industry here.

[Jambo92]

I'm struggling to think of players I would keep out this squad which is scary enough. 

 

With no knowledge of who's acting like a twat I would say:

 

Clare

Smith

Boyce

Halkett 

 

The rest are all disposable 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, CloustonHMFC said:

It’s reportedly in all standard player contracts in Scottish football, if that is actually the case then none of them a leg to stand on legally. They signed their contract. 

Let’s hope so 👍🏽

[busby1985]

There will be people now furloughed that jump at every request or problem for the same players that are refusing to help safe guard their jobs. There will be someone at hearts who look after the players digs, rents, WIFI’s, company cars. There will be someone who can get them into gigs, concerts, book restaurants for them. There will be someone who gets called when they’ve had too much to drink and need a taxi home or even someone that can squash incidents before they make the press. Then there are the people that cook them breakfast lunch and dinner both at training and maybe even at their homes. The people that wash their kit, put out their kit and make sure all they have to do is play football. A total slap in the face to everyone connected to hearts. 

[Squirt]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I don’t disagree with the principle but can we actually legally terminate their contracts?

 

Surely there is no basis for termination without paying off the balance, which is obviously a non-starter. If I was Budge I'd say if you won't accept a pay cut we'll just suspend your contract and once it all starts up again anyone who didn't take a cut can see out their contracts from the stand and we'll put one of the kids in their place. 

 

A very emotion filled course of action that I am pretty sure Budge won't resort to, but I'd be delighted if she did. I just can't see anyway back from this for these Hearts players when it comes to walking back onto the pitch at Tynecastle once this is all over. No matter the manager, no matter the support from fans, no matter the facilities available to them and the incredible lifestyle the majority of their wages allow them they haven;t been able to put in more than 4 or 5 decent performances and then in our time of need, when they have the chance to slightly redeem themselves after the farce that we as a club have become they turn their backs on us and their co-workers in the non footballing department?

 

Not fit to wear the jersey doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Kidd’s Boots]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yes, but not terminated as far as I read. 

Wages have been paid in full yesterday, so contract terminations would take effective from salary date in April if 50% per cent reduction not accepted. This would be the start if the process hence bringing in the Union. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Jambo92 said:

I'm struggling to think of players I would keep out this squad which is scary enough. 

 

With no knowledge of who's acting like a twat I would say:

 

Clare

Smith

Boyce

Halkett 

 

The rest are all disposable 

Maybe Naismith and Hickey, Halkett needs an experienced head beside him.

[CloustonHMFC]

2 minutes ago, Jambo4050 said:

Granted this squad is a shower of ****, however I’m not so sure I’m appreciating the tone used by some on here. No matter how much you like it or not *most* of these lads are obviously trying to write the wrongs of the season. And at the end of the day our club gave them a contract..

Yes but if what has been reported is true, there is a clause in their contracts allowing clubs to to suspend contracts if Scottish football is suspended. They can take the 50% offered or the club can invoke clause 12 and they get heehaw for the duration. 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Squirt said:

 

Surely there is no basis for termination without paying off the balance, which is obviously a non-starter. If I was Budge I'd say if you won't accept a pay cut we'll just suspend your contract and once it all starts up again anyone who didn't take a cut can see out their contracts from the stand and we'll put one of the kids in their place. 

 

A very emotion filled course of action that I am pretty sure Budge won't resort to, but I'd be delighted if she did. I just can't see anyway back from this for these Hearts players when it comes to walking back onto the pitch at Tynecastle once this is all over. No matter the manager, no matter the support from fans, no matter the facilities available to them and the incredible lifestyle the majority of their wages allow them they haven;t been able to put in more than 4 or 5 decent performances and then in our time of need, when they have the chance to slightly redeem themselves after the farce that we as a club have become they turn their backs on us and their co-workers in the non footballing department?

 

Not fit to wear the jersey doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

Last time we had to play the kids we got Walker, Nicholson, King, Holt, Mckay, Carrick etc. 

 

I'm keen. 

[Jambo92]

1 minute ago, Jambo4050 said:

Granted this squad is a shower of ****, however I’m not so sure I’m appreciating the tone used by some on here. No matter how much you like it or not *most* of these lads are obviously trying to write the wrongs of the season. And at the end of the day our club gave them a contract..

 

Then they wont mind when we terminate said contracts because of the clause that is in their contracts. 

 

[Squirt]

3 minutes ago, Jambo4050 said:

Granted this squad is a shower of ****, however I’m not so sure I’m appreciating the tone used by some on here. No matter how much you like it or not *most* of these lads are obviously trying to write the wrongs of the season. And at the end of the day our club gave them a contract..

 

How do you come to that conclusion?

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Football rules have nothing to do with it, we're talking employment contracts with provision for responding to issues in the industry here.

If it’s in their contracts then yes, I was under the impression it was an SFA rule that no other country had.  I wonder if it can be done individually, probably need to do it for everyone.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Jambo4050]

1 minute ago, Squirt said:

 

How do you come to that conclusion?

Maybe I’m naive, but surely all players try regardless of what fans think?

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You can make people redundant if you can’t pay them, this was discussed earlier in this thread. 

I missed that. Is that specific to this current situation or can we just do that anytime to any player (I’m thinking Malauray Martin here😁)? And do we need to pay up the rest of the contract?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

If it’s in their contracts then yes, I was under the impression it was an SFA rule that no other country had. 

As I understand it our clubs use a standardised contract approved by the SPFL/SFA/both so although article 12 is an invention of the football authorities it's a legitimate clause in player contracts.

[Squirt]

Just now, Jambo4050 said:

Maybe I’m naive, but surely all players try regardless of what fans think?

 

I wish I shared your optimism mate I really do but I've not missed a home game all season and I've been to most of the away games bar the Old Firm, Aberdeen and Ross County and I certainly don't see it.

 

I mean see other than Jamie Walker and Andy Irving, who out of those player actually cares about us as a club? You could argue, quite rightly, that they have no obligation to care. They are paid to kick a ball and stay fit so just make sure you do and you're not doing anything wrong, but that's not how you get a winning team. That's maybe why we don't have one.

[The Internet]

31 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely. Average for a doctor is just over £100k and a football player in the EPL just over £3m. That’s capitalism.

 

So you're comparing the average in one profession to the absolute tippy top of another. Aye that's a fair comparison. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

As I understand it our clubs use a standardised contract approved by the SPFL/SFA/both so although article 12 is an invention of the football authorities it's a legitimate clause in player contracts.

Yeah it is just read up on it, finally the SFA do something right.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I missed that. Is that specific to this current situation or can we just do that anytime to any player (I’m thinking Malauray Martin here😁)? And do we need to pay up the rest of the contract?

Just if you can’t pay wages then redundancies are inevitable I think, most businesses do it.

[Lovecraft]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah it is just read up on it, finally the SFA do something right.

Kinda makes you wonder why it's in there though.

 

How do Celtic and Rangers benefit?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Lovecraft

[Jambo-Fox]

Hearts players, rotten on the pitch rotten off the pitch, not following their captains lead, just sheep following the PFA!

 

Clear them out .......  build a team with ...

Dikomona (re-signed) at the back and midfield and Naismith up front and midfield, then fill the other 9 shirts with the ladies team!

 

Probably do better than current squad!

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

So you're comparing the average in one profession to the absolute tippy top of another. Aye that's a fair comparison. 

I was responding to a question asked by Kila. Go and moan at him.

[Fozzyonthefence]

18 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Well it seems she has painted herself into a corner by drawing a line in the sand so early on. It should have been voluntary, and to be reviewed on a monthly basis, and only forced if nobody took up the option. 
 

And you can’t just release players from contracts without paying it up. No footballer is going to give up a years or two wages. 

Article 12 allows only a suspension not a termination.  I do hope it is legally watertight.

[Squirt]

2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

Kinda makes you wonder why it's in there though.

 

How do Celtic and Rangers benefit?

 

 

 

Gave me a good chuckle

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just if you can’t pay wages then redundancies are inevitable I think, most businesses do it.

Fair enough, but we are not at the “unable to pay” stage yet. We are anticipating it of course. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

Kinda makes you wonder why it's in there though.

 

How do Celtic and Rangers benefit?

 

 

Indeed, they probably asked them to do it. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Harry Redknapp is spot on

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52120578

[luckydug]

We are all in this together. 

Unless you kick a football about for a living 🤔

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Fair enough, but we are not at the “unable to pay” stage yet. We are anticipating it of course. 

It’s only a matter of time with no income streams, the beginning of next month for those that don’t take the cut or suspend all ages. It’s up to them really.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

We are all in this together. 

Unless you kick a football about for a living 🤔

You taken a cut?