Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Quelle surprise! I don't have sports or movies but have everything else on virgin.    said to the wife wouldn't it be nice if, with so may millions in lockdown, Branso said that the movies you can rent for £4 or £5 for two days were offered for free during the lockdown but seeing how the bearded shitebag has behaved so far that's going to be a non-starter. 

 

Yeah don’t hold your breath mate. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

11 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Any Hearts player not prepared to take a temporary wage cut and that's cut not deferral should have their contract terminated via clause 12 with immediate effect... If that leaves us with the Youth Team so be it.
 

Wage deferral is a complete mirage of savings.  The money the club is losing just now is not money we will recover in the future, so where on earth is the club supposed to get the money to pay back this accrued debt when the game resumes?

Totally agree ! Get them tae bleep bleep 

[RonnieG]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Im not sure how you can make a player redundant unless im missing something here?  A redundant role cannot be re-hired so we wouldnt be able to sign players in those positions.    Also re the non payment thing.... what about this?  https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20200331/283334704387756

[GavK1012]

I want to see quick and positive action taken by the club and simply terminate these frauds asap from their contracts...keep the young lads on peanuts, take our medicine and start again...make the best of a bad situation and cleanse this club from the mindset and mentality Levein has encouraged and adopted over many years now whereby we have the most spineless bunch of players I have known in my 30 plus years supporting our wonderful club...they have again shown how detached they are from the club and reality of day to day life with their antics...

[Fozzyonthefence]

40 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

If only we could do that, we could probably have a decent 5-a-side team 😁

I couldn’t give a toss how many players are left or whether we get relegated.  It really isn’t important.  I’m sure there would be enough youngsters left if we have to complete this season’s fixtures (but no chance we will).

[Fozzyonthefence]

5 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

I want to see quick and positive action taken by the club and simply terminate these frauds asap from their contracts...keep the young lads on peanuts, take our medicine and start again...make the best of a bad situation and cleanse this club from the mindset and mentality Levein has encouraged and adopted over many years now whereby we have the most spineless bunch of players I have known in my 30 plus years supporting our wonderful club...they have again shown how detached they are from the club and reality of day to day life with their antics...

Unfortunately AB can’t terminate the contracts unless she comes to an agreement to pay off the players.  She can, however, suspend (not pay them) the contracts until the season restarts / SPFL announce the season is no longer is suspended.

 

But the rest of your post is spot on!  I’ve never seen JKB so united and so much hatred towards a group of players and I find myself agreeing with posters I never agree with!

[Mysterion]

36 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Have Sky or BT reduced their charges to the public yet? Certainly Virgin have not as that's who I'm with. If they haven't then unless people are cancelling their subscriptions in droves they'll still be coining it in. 

 

 

BT have set up a page where you can:

            Request your BT Sport Subscription is credited to your account

            You can donate it to the NHS Charities Together COVID-19 Urgent Appeal

            Get 3 months free BT Sport if you change to a new TV package.

 

https://www.bt.com/sport-support-options

[Des Lynam]

It’s in times like these that you really see the mettle of people. Players squabbling over salary reductions putting the club at risk. Who really cares if most leave? Absolute losers the majority of them. 

[salvo69]

A really important point is that hearts are still paying their non playing staff whilst EPL clubs are getting bailed out by the government! The playing staff do come across as petty not accepting a pay drop, I get they will have bigger outgoings but surely they can see the bigger picture 

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Minus Naismith, this group of players are an absolute disgrace. 
 

Bin the lot of them and play the remainder of the season (when safe to do so) with our younger players.

[Fozzyonthefence]

17 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Also re the non payment thing.... what about this?  https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20200331/283334704387756

That’s pretty vague to be honest but is probably why AB is reluctant to use Article 12. It goes on about FIFA rules to avoid clubs amending player’s contracts but from what is being said, we wouldn’t be amending them by invoking Article 12.

 

This may explain the SPFA’s stance - they may already know they have FIFA onside.  

**** it, FIFA - see you in court / CAS or whatever it is!  When did FIFA ever get involved in domestic / league issues anyway?

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, salvo69 said:

A really important point is that hearts are still paying their non playing staff whilst EPL clubs are getting bailed out by the government! The playing staff do come across as petty not accepting a pay drop, I get they will have bigger outgoings but surely they can see the bigger picture 

No they’re not - the majority of Hearts non playing staff has also been furloughed.  It was announced yesterday.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s pretty vague to be honest but is probably why AB is reluctant to use Article 12. It goes on about FIFA rules to avoid clubs amending player’s contracts but from what is being said, we wouldn’t be amending them by invoking Article 12.

 

This may explain the SPFA’s stance - they may already know they have FIFA onside.  

**** it, FIFA - see you in court / CAS or whatever it is!  When did FIFA ever get involved in domestic / league issues anyway?

Football is so up its own arse that the authorities and so on will do anything to protect the interests of players. Is like when clubs go into administration. The main thing the EFL (for example) care about is that football debts (ie player wages) get paid in full. They’re massively out of touch.

 

Unfortunately it doesn’t change the fact that player contracts are about as watertight as employment contracts get.

[salvo69]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No they’re not - the majority of Hearts non playing staff has also been furloughed.  It was announced yesterday.

Ah I see couldn’t face another day of Corona or Hearts news....still EPL companies taking government help whilst paying someone £100k a week

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, McCrae said:

can only delay payment whilst league is suspended. Once it starts again they have to pay up.

 

No the wording is ‘suspend’ payments not ‘defer’. It means no pay due whilst article 12 is invoked. Otherwise whats the point of it? 

[David McCaig]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

No the wording is ‘suspend’ payments not ‘defer’. It means no pay due whilst article 12 is invoked. Otherwise whats the point of it? 

In which case suspend the payments but make sure we are fully aware of every player who rejected a temporary 50% cut to help the club.

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

On what grounds though, if the SPFL have already suspended their contracts?! Any legal guys with an opinion on this?

 

This Article 12 does seem to be clear cut and the SPFA appear to be giving the players incredibly bad advice!

Certainly shows that Mrs Budge’s initial offer was, if anything, extremely generous yet she has been hammered by players, media and SPFA for making it. Had the players accepted it immediately it would have been seen as a lifeline for most clubs in Scotland. 

[soonbe110]

Just now, David McCaig said:

In which case suspend the payments but make sure we are fully aware of every player who rejected a temporary 50% cut to help the club.

If we want to be vindictive then yes. Would prefer to hear the rationale/thinking behind any player who refused though before deciding whether to boo him. 

[livingstonjambo]

14 hours ago, RonnieG said:

https://twitter.com/PFAScotland/status/1245402222164430848/photo/1

The last paragraph is an eye opener and shows how out of touch the PFA are. Instead of offering any type of solution just stick their head in the sand and hope the clubs get grants from FIFA or some other some other miraculous source to ensure the members get 100% of their salary when doing 0% work.

They should be reminded that over 1000 people have died in Britain in the last 2 days, nhs and care workers are going to work without proper protective gear and are also starting to get ill and die.

As others have stated deferrals do nothing as the chances of the clubs being able to sustain a income levels when the football restarts is slim to none. Millions of people have been paid off or are furloughed and likely won’t have as much money to spend on season tickets or going games.

Businesses that are struggling to survive wort be able to afford the same in sponsorship or hospitality, sky, bt and virgin are already suspending subscriptions for sports packages and unlikely to pay their full amounts to clubs.

The PFA are doing the players no favours as they are coming across as self entitled, shellfish and greedy, hoping to keep all of their money when most people in Britain are coming together to support each other 

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m sure guys like Locke could’ve talked it through with them having been there when we couldn’t pay wages for months in end, 50% should cover their bills and there’s not much else to spend cash on just now.

My boss asked us how much we would need before Furlough became an option, I asked for enough to cover my mortgage and a little extra for food. He said I would get double that, it’s now triple that as he’s giving us the extra 20%. I wanted to make sure I had a job to go back to, it feels weird to be paid for doing nothing. I’m no sycophant either when it comes to my boss or employees in general but he‘a stepped up to the plate here. If he had said 50% of my wages I would’ve been happy enough. My wife is wondering who all these companies are that I’m donating too our our joint account 😃🤫.

Yep, and even a mortgage holiday could have been an option for you and them if necessary. Wonder if you get mortgage holidays on all properties if you have multiple properties and mortgages? 

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, salvo69 said:

Ah I see couldn’t face another day of Corona or Hearts news....still EPL companies taking government help whilst paying someone £100k a week

Yes, the actions of the likes of Spurs and Newcastle will likely alienate them from the public.

[soonbe110]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Want a bet. This is the UK gov advice for making someone redundant.

Using that criteria all the young guys would go first. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

22 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Football is so up its own arse that the authorities and so on will do anything to protect the interests of players. Is like when clubs go into administration. The main thing the EFL (for example) care about is that football debts (ie player wages) get paid in full. They’re massively out of touch.

 

Unfortunately it doesn’t change the fact that player contracts are about as watertight as employment contracts get.

The biggest winners will be the lawyers if it goes that far.

[soonbe110]

55 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Im not sure how you can make a player redundant unless im missing something here?  A redundant role cannot be re-hired so we wouldnt be able to sign players in those positions.    Also re the non payment thing.... what about this?  https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20200331/283334704387756

Yes, the only option would be to say we are reducing first team squad from 30 to 20 so 10 can be made redundant. In that case though based on the criteria it would be all the young and fringe players out first. Wouldn’t solve any significant problems 

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

The biggest winners will be the lawyers if it goes that far.

And Hearts, if we don’t get relegated.

[GavK1012]

47 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Unfortunately AB can’t terminate the contracts unless she comes to an agreement to pay off the players.  She can, however, suspend (not pay them) the contracts until the season restarts / SPFL announce the season is no longer is suspended.

 

But the rest of your post is spot on!  I’ve never seen JKB so united and so much hatred towards a group of players and I find myself agreeing with posters I never agree with!

 

Ahhh, my bad, I had foolishly thought that we could write off the contract if they didnt accept new terms 😒 I now feel a bit deflated ☹

 

But the feeling of most posting on JKB is actually almost unique! It appears there is zero good will or positive feeling towards these frauds and the previous management team...

[husref musemic]

10 minutes ago, livingstonjambo said:

The last paragraph is an eye opener and shows how out of touch the PFA are. Instead of offering any type of solution just stick their head in the sand and hope the clubs get grants from FIFA or some other some other miraculous source to ensure the members get 100% of their salary when doing 0% work.

They should be reminded that over 1000 people have died in Britain in the last 2 days, nhs and care workers are going to work without proper protective gear and are also starting to get ill and die.

As others have stated deferrals do nothing as the chances of the clubs being able to sustain a income levels when the football restarts is slim to none. Millions of people have been paid off or are furloughed and likely won’t have as much money to spend on season tickets or going games.

Businesses that are struggling to survive wort be able to afford the same in sponsorship or hospitality, sky, bt and virgin are already suspending subscriptions for sports packages and unlikely to pay their full amounts to clubs.

The PFA are doing the players no favours as they are coming across as self entitled, shellfish and greedy, hoping to keep all of their money when most people in Britain are coming together to support each other 

i wonder what kind of bubble our players live in. 

don't they read the news ? today's other grim stat that stood out for me is 1 million got universal credit in the last two weeks alone. BA suspended 40,000 workers.

 

this isn't ending anytime soon and if they dig their heels in it will ruin the club.

 

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, Last Laff said:

And people think that’s normal and the club is being ran brilliant. Mental decisions.  You’ve got tubes on here backing Naismith and telling the rest to rot.  He will be completely fine. As club captain shouldn’t he be trying to get the group together to agree? Instead four highest paid player who has a four year deal and who is a multi millionaire agreeing to the cut and not leading the rest of the players seems to be the hero.  

That's right, Laff.  He should be telling them to insist on full pay until the money runs out and they could then get a 100% pay cut.  After that, the state (ie you, me and the rest of the working population) could subsidise them as they have a special role in life and should not be forced to worry about the effects of something as insignificant as C 19.

[DETTY29]

Dundee Utd are furloughing all staff but for players making up shortfall in wages.

 

Not convinced that is in the spirit of the scheme.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Ach, too worried about what will become of my own family to worry about these ****ers any longer.

 

Imagine quite a few of them realise this is as good as it gets and don't want to let go. MacLean for example, only has a couple of months left, he would be nuts to accept 50%.

 

They are marked now in Hearts history, they are more than just tainted, not only now by their abject levels of performance

[Fozzyonthefence]

5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

And Hearts, if we don’t get relegated.

I was meaning the wages dispute not relegation, but yes, potentially both could go down the legal route.  Perhaps FOH donations should be used to cover legal fees.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

I was meaning the wages dispute not relegation, but yes, potentially both could go down the legal route.  Perhaps FOH donations should be used to cover legal fees.

Sorry, my apologies. Thought you meant relegation.

[Beni]

42 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

It’s in times like these that you really see the mettle of people. Players squabbling over salary reductions putting the club at risk. Who really cares if most leave? Absolute losers the majority of them. 

 

I heard a psychologist talking about how people's character traits become exaggerated at times of high stress like we're in now.

Footballers are showing that they are selfish, entitled and out of touch with the people who pay their wages. If the PFA had any awareness of how this is playing out, they'd stop squealing, show some leadership, and initiate a dialogue with club's about a reduction in wages. That would best serve  the long term interest of the players.

[Jeff]

Just over 100 years since our team went to fight in Europe. Now we have a team of shysters. Empty them!

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Ahhh, my bad, I had foolishly thought that we could write off the contract if they didnt accept new terms 😒 I now feel a bit deflated ☹

 

But the feeling of most posting on JKB is actually almost unique! It appears there is zero good will or positive feeling towards these frauds and the previous management team...

There now seems to be a possibility that FIFA would intervene if Article 12 is invoked. 

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, GavK1012 said:

I want to see quick and positive action taken by the club and simply terminate these frauds asap from their contracts...keep the young lads on peanuts, take our medicine and start again...make the best of a bad situation and cleanse this club from the mindset and mentality Levein has encouraged and adopted over many years now whereby we have the most spineless bunch of players I have known in my 30 plus years supporting our wonderful club...they have again shown how detached they are from the club and reality of day to day life with their antics...

100 percent this.

 

I'll never be able to cheer a team knowing that there may be such greedy, inconsiderate scum bags within the ranks.

 

Name and shame and leave them to rot.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I heard a psychologist talking about how people's character traits become exaggerated at times of high stress like we're in now.

Footballers are showing that they are selfish, entitled and out of touch with the people who pay their wages. If the PFA had any awareness of how this is playing out, they'd stop squealing, show some leadership, and initiate a dialogue with club's about a reduction in wages. That would best serve  the long term interest of the players.

Well Hearts footballers are but it’s a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush. Look at Barca and all the other European clubs agreeing to massive wage cuts.  Not sure how many are just deferrals though which isn’t really any sacrafice.

[Brave Hearts]

Everyone else is having to take cuts and reductions in an effort to help their company or organisation to survive. These sacrifices are being done so we all hope we have jobs to go back to.
 

This is reality, and football players plus their union are showing a total disrespect and disregard to the sacrifices other people around the world are taking to assist continuation of their employers.

 

They seem to think they have a divine right to get full pay and do not understand that this will bleed their club dry and threatened the existence of the club.

 

Do they care ? Seems like they don’t. As long as they get their money in the end.
 

They are also so egoistic and self centred that they don’t seem realise that it’s the ordinary people making the sacrifices are the ones that ultimately pay their wages.

 

Yes footballers, we all have financial commitments and outgoings like mortgages, rents, food to buy, its just that you receive a lot more money to pay them in the first place.

 

My club needs to survive and is more important to me than any player, so as far as I am concerned any player that doesn’t and won’t take a pay cut then ......bye bye.
 

Especially within this bunch of players who have not performed nor put the effort in to justify the salaries that our club are paying them.

 

They seem to be oblivious that the fans paying their wages are taking cuts, their clubs have no money coming in, yet continue to bite the hands that feed them.
 

Show a bit of gratitude and humility towards your wage payers of us supporters and your clubs. Do what everyone else is having to do, or just take your big salary and football boots to somewhere else.

 

[McCrae]

41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

No the wording is ‘suspend’ payments not ‘defer’. It means no pay due whilst article 12 is invoked. Otherwise whats the point of it? 

The suspension is to help with clubs short term cash flow. It is not designed to stop players getting paid.  

[McCrae]

6 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

100 percent this.

 

I'll never be able to cheer a team knowing that there may be such greedy, inconsiderate scum bags within the ranks.

 

Name and shame and leave them to rot.

The football authorities won’t allow this to happen. If we get rid of someone we have to pay of the remaining wages or else they won’t allow the team to play in the league.

[McCrae]

9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You’re really not understanding this are you?  You’re getting contract suspension confused with the wage deferment that Hibs and other clubs are doing. 

Am not. I know that the Football authorities will not allow us to do this and remain in the league. We cut players when we went into Administration. As a condition of us staying in the league we had to agree to pay the salaries due of players cut. 

[kingantti1874]

Invoke article 12 for those who haven’t agreed to help. 

[Beni]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Well Hearts footballers are but it’s a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush. Look at Barca and all the other European clubs agreeing to massive wage cuts.  Not sure how many are just deferrals though which isn’t really any sacrafice.

 

Fair enough, I was referring more to Scottish footballers and the SPFA's statement about wages deferred rather than cut. However given the wages of players at the likes of Barcelona, even on 30% of their normal wage, I doubt they'll be worried about paying the rent.

[Fozzyonthefence]

10 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Am not. I know that the Football authorities will not allow us to do this and remain in the league. We cut players when we went into Administration. As a condition of us staying in the league we had to agree to pay the salaries due of players cut. 

 

Try reading Article 12, it’s all over this thread.  Article 12 is an agreement with the football authorities, i.e. the SPFL which does allow us to suspend players’ wages.  The SPFL have even confirmed this to players! The only grey area would appear to be whether or not FIFA would get involved and overrule it but do the SPFA / players really want to take that chance?

 

You keep mentioning the administration season - it’s got absolutely nothing to do with administration.  The club didn’t invoke Article 12 back then, I don’t even know if it existed, so that comparison is irrelevant.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[upgotheheads]

Does anyone know the answer to this? 

Are employers allowed to furlough their staff on 80% of their salaries, and then make up the difference in pay? I imagine that Hearts will be doing that for those people on Living Wage as the LV is not a legal requirement. 

 

[Vlad Magic]

I’m not prepared to criticise the players just yet. 
 

A decision like the one being asked is difficult to make quickly. Unless of course you are 100% certain you are financially secure enough to do so as is the case with Naismith. 
 

The other players will need to evaluate exactly what there revenues and outgoings are. Do their partners contribute? What are their total monthly liabilities?

 

It would be foolish to simply agree to something that may have significant financial implications further down the line.

 

We also don’t know (as far as I am aware) who or how many have refused or agreed?

 

There appears to be a lot of assumptions being made here.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Just reading Tony Fitzpatricks comments in the herald. Bang on the money and agree with every word.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18352282.tony-fitzpatrick-season-get-planning-better-future-scottish-football/

[soonbe110]

18 minutes ago, McCrae said:

The suspension is to help with clubs short term cash flow. It is not designed to stop players getting paid.  

Think it is.  In any case how do you know the thinking behind article 12? 

[Sarah O]

15 minutes ago, McCrae said:

The football authorities won’t allow this to happen. If we get rid of someone we have to pay of the remaining wages or else they won’t allow the team to play in the league.

They can be made to sit in the stands then. Or fork the pitch. Put the cones out for the u13's. Do the laundry. Pull pints in the fans bar. 

[Sarah O]

3 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Does anyone know the answer to this? 

Are employers allowed to furlough their staff on 80% of their salaries, and then make up the difference in pay? I imagine that Hearts will be doing that for those people on Living Wage as the LV is not a legal requirement. 

 

Yes. That's what hearts are doing and it's not necessary but if they can afford it is a good thing to do.