Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Lovecraft]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If you think we are bad what about Spurs, Newcastle and Norwich. 

Hundreds of backroom staff at Spurs furloughed. 

Just so that their 'superstars' can get their 600k pay cheques. 

They better enjoy it while it lasts the gravy train is about to hit the buffers imo. 

I hope so

 

This should wake up everyone about how much people get paid for important jobs.

 

It probably won't though.  Sadly.

 

 

 

 

[Lovecraft]

3 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

Absolutely shameful .Unadulterated greed

 Yup.  It's why the US is about to be skelped with Covid.

 

 

[bigsuperslim1874]

9 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If you think we are bad what about Spurs, Newcastle and Norwich. 

Hundreds of backroom staff at Spurs furloughed. 

Just so that their 'superstars' can get their 600k pay cheques. 

They better enjoy it while it lasts the gravy train is about to hit the buffers imo. 

This. I have hated ‘elite’ football for years due to the money disparity/greed. This behaviour though is a whole new level of appalling.

 

The public should go to town on this. How these clubs can do this defies all decency. They really have lost the plot and all sense of reality. Someone from Brighton said it was a ‘myth’ that the EPL was ‘awash with money’.....aye right!

[davemclaren]

17 minutes ago, Kidd’s Boots said:

Possibly not, but that doesn't change the responsibilities of the Directors'. I agree time will tell, and not only for our squad but others, football in general this week hasn't put its best foot forward in dealing with this scenario and the media today is being fed by some really unsavoury decisions.

Director’s responsibilities are defined in company law bit the nature of the contracts will define what flexibility they have. 

[HMFC01]

I think the club's had enough "advice" from the pundits/media lets just roll with it already.

 

[jimbo99]

37 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Which would be fair enough. Hearts are only asking for the 50% reduction to be as long as the shutdown. The suspension of wages would only last for the same time.
At least Hearts would have income to support payment again, after the shutdown.

The players are currently expecting full whack for doing absolutely nothing for their employer, whilst seeing the, far less well paid, office staff only getting 80% of their wages. They probably don’t care if them getting full wages will cost the lower paid worker, who probably has more emotional attachment to Hearts, their job.

[McCrae]

46 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Only the ones still under contract, if they haven’t been made redundant.

Still have to pay wages. 
 

[davemclaren]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I reckon they'll be regular PAYE employees, they certainly used to be when I worked in HMRC many moons ago.

I'd also think it'll be specified by the standard SPFL contract.

Fair enough, I’ve never had that privilege. Is the standard contract template in the public domain?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, McCrae said:

Still have to pay wages. 
 

Yes and we will have income then to cover it.

[McCrae]

53 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Not if they've expired by then

We can’t walk away from football debt.

 

[McCrae]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Yes and we will have income then to cover it.

It will impact next season’s budget.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

We can’t walk away from football debt.

 

What football debt?

[McCrae]

43 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Which would be fair enough. Hearts are only asking for the 50% reduction to be as long as the shutdown. The suspension of wages would only last for the same time.
At least Hearts would have income to support payment again, after the shutdown.

The players are currently expecting full whack for doing absolutely nothing for their employer, whilst seeing the, far less well paid, office staff only getting 80% of their wages. They probably don’t care if them getting full wages will cost the lower paid worker, who probably has more emotional attachment to Hearts, their job.

I agree, but their is Hee Haw we can do about it.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, McCrae said:

It will impact next season’s budget.

 

No more than it does at any other normal season, we won’t be due to pay their wages if they’re suspended, not deferred.

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

What football debt?

unpaid wages would count as debt.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, McCrae said:

I agree, but their is Hee Haw we can do about it.

The can be legally made redundant.

[Squirt]

2 minutes ago, McCrae said:

unpaid wages would count as debt.

 

Not if the league is suspended as the players contract is also suspended as per Clause 12. So the wages won't stack up, they just aren't due at all until football gets going again.

 

The players  have played this wrongly and may well regret it IMO.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Squirt

[Hungry hippo]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

unpaid wages would count as debt.

 

No. If they were just to be deferred there would not be a challenge by the SPFA. Suspended means they would not be due the pay.

[McCrae]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No more than it does at any other normal season, we won’t be due to pay their wages if they’re suspended, not deferred.

We have to pay all of their wages if the league starts again.

 

[McCrae]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The can be legally made redundant.

Football insists that we need to pay any wages due under contract. We had to do this when we came out of Admin.

Edited April 1, 2020 by McCrae

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

We have to pay all of their wages if the league starts again.

 

Suspension means we won’t have to pay them at all during the lockdown, that’s why the players are worried.

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

No. If they were just to be deferred there would not be a challenge by the SPFA. Suspended means they would not be due the pay.

Nope. Suspension is temporary is not permanent.

[busby1985]

57 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

“Take the 50% cut”

 

”No”

 

”Okay then, we will negotiate the termination of your contract”

 

”Ok, that’s 2 years at £2k per week - I’ll have £200k please”

 

”How about £50k”

 

”**** off”

Or 

 

Budge - “take the 50%” 

 

Players - “no” 

 

Budge - “okay, we are invoking article 12. That means you’ll be paid nothing until the government shut down due to the virus is lifted and we can start playing football again. The government are quoting this may last till September, maybe even longer. You will receive no wages for 6 months or you can agree to walk away from your contract now for free” 

 

Then just for good measure 

 

Budge - “Now **** off” 

 

 

[McCrae]

5 minutes ago, Squirt said:

 

Not if the league is suspended as the players contract is also suspended as per Clause 12. So the wages won't stack up, they just aren't due at all until football gets going again.

can only delay payment whilst league is suspended. Once it starts again they have to pay up.

 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Football insists that we need to pay any wages due under contract. We had to do this when we came out of Admin.

Football doesn’t make the laws, any employee of any company can be made redundant at any time. Go look it up. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[SectionDJambo]

2 minutes ago, McCrae said:

We have to pay all of their wages if the league starts again.

 

But surely only for the period from when the shutdown ends. Hearts wouldn’t have to pay back wages lost during the suspension. That’s the point of having the suspension. No income period - no wages period.

[Squirt]

Just now, McCrae said:

can only delay payment whilst league is suspended. Once it starts again they have to pay up.

 

Yeah but then we’ve got income so it’s not an issue?

 

We do not have to pay the wages that we’re not paid during the suspension of contract, if we decide to go that route.

[Squirt]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

But surely only for the period from when the shutdown ends. Hearts wouldn’t have to pay back wages lost during the suspension. That’s the point of having the suspension. No income period - no wages period.

Correct, as far as we know, at the moment. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

can only delay payment whilst league is suspended. Once it starts again they have to pay up.

 

Are you for real? Are you that thick that you can’t get it through your head. Suspension means players don’t get paid, end of ****ing story.

[Hungry hippo]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Nope. Suspension is temporary is not permanent.

 

It is temporary but does not mean pay would need to be backdated. 

 

If it was just a deferral then the SPFA would tell Hearts to crack on with it as the players would be delighted they'd get 100% of their money.

 

 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Fair enough, I’ve never had that privilege. Is the standard contract template in the public domain?

Possibly, it seems the type of thing the authorities might make available to download. 

 

It's 25 years since I was in the inland revenue as was, but a few footballer payslips have come out since then which were all PAYE. We also know old rangers got in trouble for not applying PAYE to their EBTs so it's a reasonable assumption - I think we'd have heard if that had changed.

[Squirt]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Football doesn’t make the laws, any employee of any company can be made redundant at any time. Go look it up. 

I went in to business for myself a few years back and have only had a few employees over the years and the number of people who seem to believe enployees are untouchable is incredible.

 

Not that I don’t obviously have sympathy for employees of companies going through difficulty just now, just something that’s always steamed my hoop. 

[McCrae]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Football doesn’t make the laws, any employee of any company can be made redundant at any time. Go look it up. 

Football does though make the rules a club must follow if they want to play in the league.  That’s  why we had to play ex players wages when we came out of Admin.

Edited April 1, 2020 by McCrae

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I agree, but their is Hee Haw we can do about it.

I can see this shut down lasting until September. 

If we suspend their contracts that is 26 weeks wages we have to pay these duds when it starts up again.

Probably about half our ST money.

These players would be better moving on. Their life at Tynecastle will be unbearable if we have to hand over half our hard earned to them.

 

[Squirt]

Just now, McCrae said:

Football does though make the rules a club must follow if they want to play in the league.  That’s  why we had to play ex players wages when we came out of Admin.

It’s the standard SPFL contract template all clubs use. It’s their own rules that allow us to do this.

[McCrae]

4 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

It is temporary but does not mean pay would need to be backdated. 

 

If it was just a deferral then the SPFA would tell Hearts to crack on with it as the players would be delighted they'd get 100% of their money.

 

 

players have monthly expenses like the rest of us.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Squirt said:

I went in to business for myself a few years back and have only had a few employees over the years and the number of people who seem to believe enployees are untouchable is incredible.

 

Not that I don’t obviously have sympathy for employees of companies going through difficulty just now, just something that’s always steamed my hoop. 

As I’ve been more involved in disputes I’ve learnt more about how the laws are in favour of the employer. A simple search about making redundancies gives you the UK government guidelines. I think most of us have sympathy for folk that deserve it, our players most certainly do not.

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

I can see this shut down lasting until September. 

If we suspend their contracts that is 26 weeks wages we have to pay these duds when it starts up again.

Probably about half our ST money.

These players would be better moving on. Their life at Tynecastle will be unbearable if we have to hand over half our hard earned to them.

 

I agree. 

[jimbo99]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Football does though make the rules a club must follow if they want to play in the league.  That’s  why we had to play ex players wages when we came out of Admin.

Go to bed...enough misinformed comment for one day, surely?

[busby1985]

No monies have to be paid or will be considered “owed” during the shut down. Hence why the PFA are so determined not to allow it to happen. The hearts players have three choices as it stands. 
 

1. Accept the 50% wage cut. It’s clear they aren’t going to accept this. 
 

2. Come to a termination agreement with Hearts due to not wanting to accept the 50% cut. 
 

3. Be paid absolutely nothing until the shut down is lifted due to Article 12. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Football does though make the rules a club must follow if they want to play in the league.  That’s  why we had to play ex players wages when we came out of Admin.

Yes but that’s not a law of the land and can be easily challenged in court, they can’t restrict your trade either.

[Squirt]

This thread is going in circles guys come on

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Squirt said:

This thread is going in circles guys come on

It started like this, people saying we can’t sack players. Round and round we go. I think the majority agree that most of the players can GTF.

[McCrae]

9 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

But surely only for the period from when the shutdown ends. Hearts wouldn’t have to pay back wages lost during the suspension. That’s the point of having the suspension. No income period - no wages period.

Nope.  The suspension only delays payment.

[Squirt]

Just now, McCrae said:

Nope.  The suspension only delays payment.

 

Could you kindly explain your interpretation of Clause 12 because I can't understand your train of thought here.  

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, McCrae said:

Nope.  The suspension only delays payment.

Shows is the proof that you’re right and everyone else is an wrong? 

[Hungry hippo]

5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Football does though make the rules a club must follow if they want to play in the league.  That’s  why we had to play ex players wages when we came out of Admin.

 

We had to pay those players as they were owed the money. Assuming this clause is legally enforceable, the players contracts are not valid (suspended) for the period play is suspended and the club will not owe the players anything for that period.

[davemclaren]

Interesting article here. 
 

https://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/covid-19-can-a-wage-reduction-be-imposed-on-football-players/

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

No monies have to be paid or will be considered “owed” during the shut down. Hence why the PFA are so determined not to allow it to happen. The hearts players have three choices as it stands. 
 

1. Accept the 50% wage cut. It’s clear they aren’t going to accept this. 
 

2. Come to a termination agreement with Hearts due to not wanting to accept the 50% cut. 
 

3. Be paid absolutely nothing until the shut down is lifted due to Article 12. 

That’s how I read it. 

[Horatio Caine]

9 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

No monies have to be paid or will be considered “owed” during the shut down. Hence why the PFA are so determined not to allow it to happen. The hearts players have three choices as it stands. 
 

1. Accept the 50% wage cut. It’s clear they aren’t going to accept this. 
 

2. Come to a termination agreement with Hearts due to not wanting to accept the 50% cut. 
 

3. Be paid absolutely nothing until the shut down is lifted due to Article 12. 

If the above is true, it merely confirms that our players are even more stupid arseholes than we thought.