The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Space Mackerel]

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, weehammy said:

I do. But some of your mates on here argue that you’re not Scottish, or at least less Scottish than they are, if you don’t favour independence.

 

Why do you bam up Doris Johnson then?

 

Sell it to me?

 

Like I'm an illegal immigrant and I want to stay here.

 

GO!

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

We did that already, in 2014. 

Once in a lifetime/Once in a generation, they said.

 

 

Lolololololol

 

NEXT?

[jack D and coke]

35 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

We did that already, in 2014. 

Once in a lifetime/Once in a generation, they said.

 

No they didn’t. Was a throwaway remark to get people to vote. It’s now jumped on by people taking a silly position desperate to try close this down. 

[coconut doug]

On 27/08/2020 at 17:31, weehammy said:

‘Scots who call themselves Scots’ WTF ???????????
You mean people born in Scotland, just like their parents and grandparents and great grandparents, etc. etc. who are every bit as Scottish as you?

 

10 hours ago, weehammy said:

I never claimed to be ethnically Scottish because there’s no such thing. I’m just Scottish and, according to my UK passport, British.

 

  In the above post you used exactly that argument as a justification for being "every bit as Scottish as you".

 

If this is not your view, what is it that defines whether a person is Scottish or not?

My view is clear, i don't see how you can argue in favour of your country being ruled from elsewhere unless you deny the existence of your country, in this case Scotland. If you don't want your country to exist then a Scottish identity is no more than a regional identity. You are a North Briton rather than a Scot in my view but you can of course call yourself whatever you like.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

As throwaway remarks go mate, you just hit pay dirt. 

I have no idea what that means. Look this subject clearly keeps you awake at night so I’ll leave to it. 

[Norm]

46 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

We did that already, in 2014. 

 

 

No we didn't. 

 

A no vote still kept the Scottish Parliament in 2014.

 

What he suggested was a no vote in a referendum should then mean the abolition of Holyrood. 

[Unknown user]

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I'll be honest, I did not pick up on the double-ultra-stupid referendum option there, when I replied. 

So this once in generation throw a way remark is gospel, but the EU membership guarantee isn't? 

We can all pick things to suit. 

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So this once in generation throw a way remark is gospel, but the EU membership guarantee isn't? 

We can all pick things to suit. 

 

Can all the rabid nationalists not just piss off to one of the Western Isles and set up their wee seperatist shin-dig there?

Then the rest of us could get on with the real work of trying to overthrow the current establishment and improve the lives of everyone on these Isles - instead of leaving our brothers and sisters to their fate and running away from our responibilities to some imiginary utopia like whining cowards.

 

Just think, ri, you could be the next David Koresh. 👍

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Can all the rabid nationalists not just piss off to one of the Western Isles and set up their wee seperatist shin-dig there?

Then the rest of us could get on with the real work of trying to overthrow the current establishment and improve the lives of everyone on these Isles - instead of leaving our brothers and sisters to their fate and running away from our responibilities to some imiginary utopia like whining cowards.

 

Just think, ri, you could be the next David Koresh. 👍

 

Can they take the rabid unionists with them? I mean, those guys are the biggest supporters of the current establishment so if you really want to overthrow it.. . 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Can all the rabid nationalists not just piss off to one of the Western Isles and set up their wee seperatist shin-dig there?

Then the rest of us could get on with the real work of trying to overthrow the current establishment and improve the lives of everyone on these Isles - instead of leaving our brothers and sisters to their fate and running away from our responibilities to some imiginary utopia like whining cowards.

 

Just think, ri, you could be the next David Koresh. 👍

Actually love that story. Davidians is a brilliant name for his disciples  

But anyway they keep enforcing this fate on us brother. They are too many. Pishing into the wind trying to do it from the inside. 
 

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Can they take the rabid unionists with them? I mean, those guys are the biggest supporters of the current establishment so if you really want to overthrow it.. . 

 

Supporters of the current establishment are certainly almost exclusively unionists, but all those who'd rather work within the union (in a devolved form) to improve the lives of its citizens are certainly not all supporters of the current establishment.

[jack D and coke]

37 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Supporters of the current establishment are certainly almost exclusively unionists, but all those who'd rather work within the union (in a devolved form) to improve the lives of its citizens are certainly not all supporters of the current establishment.

In the devolved form to be told yearly how skint we are, what massively ungrateful scroungers we are and how we’d have nothing if we ever dare try to govern ourselves? Perpetual tory rule by utter buffoons and brexit etc imposed upon us by a country far too big for us to ever make more than a small ripple in the places where it matters? We can’t make any difference to this Union. We never have. England chooses labour, England chooses Tory and we get it whether we want it or not. 
We haven’t voted Conservative in any numbers here since the 50’s yet we continually get that government. Regardless of the arguments of what government is better we don’t really ever get what we vote for anymore and the constant snideyness of the debate with SNP this Tory that it’s life draining stuff. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Weakened Offender]

10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I'll be honest, I did not pick up on the double-ultra-stupid referendum option there, when I replied. 

 

There's probably a very solid reason why other people have to go back and point out to you your own errors amongst the absolute drivel you post on here. 

 

😊

[AlphonseCapone]

36 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Supporters of the current establishment are certainly almost exclusively unionists, but all those who'd rather work within the union (in a devolved form) to improve the lives of its citizens are certainly not all supporters of the current establishment.

 

Not all of course. Like all supporters of Scottish independence aren't rabid nationalists. Only dafties would completely label both types. Don't think either of us are or would do that. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by AlphonseCapone

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

In the devolved form to be told yearly how skint we are, what massively ungrateful scroungers we are and how we’d have nothing if we ever dare try to govern ourselves? 

 

On this point there are compelling arguments to be made from both sides. The truth, as ever, will be somewhere in between. We'd win some and we'd lose some. The emotive arguments like the one you've cited above only cloud the issue. You wont find many sensible unionists using it as they know it only riles folk and does the nationalist job for them. The nationalists on the other hand seldom stop bringing it up. Emotion trumps reason. Job done.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Perpetual tory rule by utter buffoons and brexit etc imposed upon us by a country far too big for us to ever make more than a small ripple in the places where it matters?

 

Brexit imposed on British europhiles = Scottish independence imposed on Scottish unionists.

 

If you substitute the terms for each other the whole trade/economic/border/etc arguments for and against each are strikingly similar.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

We can’t make any difference to this Union. We never have. 

 

The history of the last couple of hundred years would suggest that Scotland has made a huge difference to this union, always has, and always would.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

England chooses labour, England chooses Tory and we get it whether we want it or not. 
We haven’t voted Conservative in any numbers here since the 50’s yet we continually get that government. 

 

We used to be quite fond of socialist governments in Scotland and frequently got them. We've seen a world-wide shunt to the populist right, it's not only a UK problem. It's something we should be looking to tackle together, not perpetually breaking up unions and coallitions into smaller and smaller geographical units. Where does it stop and who stops it?

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

the constant snideyness of the debate with SNP this Tory that it’s life draining stuff. 

 

**** yeh. Encouraged by both sides. It's almost like the old divide and rule tactic is being used to try and divide and rule. I hope it doesn't catch on. 🙂👍

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Not all of course. Like all supporters of Scottish independence aren't rabid nationalists.

 

Absolutely correct. 👍

 

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Only dafties would completely label both types. Don't think either of us are or would do that. 

 

I'm a ****ing idiot, mate.

 

[luckydug]

23 hours ago, weehammy said:

But according to some on here they’re not Scots.

 

15 hours ago, weehammy said:

I do. But some of your mates on here argue that you’re not Scottish, or at least less Scottish than they are, if you don’t favour independence.

I've always been under the impression that you were an Englishman who had no time for Scotland or its people. 

I'm saying that based on posts made by you in the past. 

Turns out you are Scot who hates Scotland.  It's strange behaviour and you can't deny it as there are posts from you that Nigel Farage would have been proud of. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

In the devolved form to be told yearly how skint we are, what massively ungrateful scroungers we are and how we’d have nothing if we ever dare try to govern ourselves? Perpetual tory rule by utter buffoons and brexit etc imposed upon us by a country far too big for us to ever make more than a small ripple in the places where it matters? We can’t make any difference to this Union. We never have. England chooses labour, England chooses Tory and we get it whether we want it or not. 
We haven’t voted Conservative in any numbers here since the 50’s yet we continually get that government. Regardless of the arguments of what government is better we don’t really ever get what we vote for anymore and the constant snideyness of the debate with SNP this Tory that it’s life draining stuff. 

The irony of your post has obviously completely passed you by. What kind of ripples would you expect us to make in an EU dominated by France and Germany??  We have a proportionate share of MP's elected to Westminster to deal with reserved matters and we have full control of health, education and policing and some powers over welfare. Additional welfare powers were also handed back to Westminster by the SNP because they were unable to administer them. We also, crucially, receive a £2k per head per year Union dividend...but thst is what you expect from a nation that pools and shares resources. It's no different from any other nation and, as far as I'm aware, the only people that resent that are Nationalists. 

Andrew Wilson laments the reliance on London to raise 50% of UK revenue,  but neglects to mention that economic activity in Dublin is responsible for 60% of Ireland's revenue.  Likewise, notionally, economic activity in Edinburgh and Glasgow sccounts for the majority of Scotland's. 

If the SNP worked constructively as a devolved govt rather than acting as an opposition towards all things Westminster,  then they would find that they would be able to improve the lot of the "Scottish people " they claim to represent. If not, they should step aside and allow devolution to function as it was intended to do.

[strappingjock]

Possible scenario. Scotland gains independence and, like the Brexit remoaners, wishes to rejoin union when things get too tough.

 

Envisage a referendum, dominated by the English of course, on the subject of readmitting Scotland.  I wonder how many tens of % above 50 would be the NO vote. 

 

Leaving the union will be a one way street. Scotland would never be trusted again.

[Felix Lighter]

24 minutes ago, strappingjock said:

Possible scenario. Scotland gains independence and, like the Brexit remoaners, wishes to rejoin union when things get too tough.

 

Envisage a referendum, dominated by the English of course, on the subject of readmitting Scotland.  I wonder how many tens of % above 50 would be the NO vote. 

 

Leaving the union will be a one way street. Scotland would never be trusted again.

 

But the English love the scrounging subsidy junkie jocks though, don't they?

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

In the devolved form to be told yearly how skint we are, what massively ungrateful scroungers we are and how we’d have nothing if we ever dare try to govern ourselves? Perpetual tory rule by utter buffoons and brexit etc imposed upon us by a country far too big for us to ever make more than a small ripple in the places where it matters? We can’t make any difference to this Union. We never have. England chooses labour, England chooses Tory and we get it whether we want it or not. 
We haven’t voted Conservative in any numbers here since the 50’s yet we continually get that government. Regardless of the arguments of what government is better we don’t really ever get what we vote for anymore and the constant snideyness of the debate with SNP this Tory that it’s life draining stuff. 

WM is about to scrap Scots law. Surely even the Unionists cannot support this. 

 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Possible scenario. Scotland gains independence and, like the Brexit remoaners, wishes to rejoin union when things get too tough.

 

Envisage a referendum, dominated by the English of course, on the subject of readmitting Scotland.  I wonder how many tens of % above 50 would be the NO vote. 

 

Leaving the union will be a one way street. Scotland would never be trusted again.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Possible scenario. Scotland gains independence and, like the Brexit remoaners, wishes to rejoin union when things get too tough.

 

Envisage a referendum, dominated by the English of course, on the subject of readmitting Scotland.  I wonder how many tens of % above 50 would be the NO vote. 

 

Leaving the union will be a one way street. Scotland would never be trusted again.

Seriously man wtf are you all about?

[ri Alban]

12 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Can all the rabid nationalists not just piss off to one of the Western Isles and set up their wee seperatist shin-dig there?

Then the rest of us could get on with the real work of trying to overthrow the current establishment and improve the lives of everyone on these Isles - instead of leaving our brothers and sisters to their fate and running away from our responibilities to some imiginary utopia like whining cowards.

 

Just think, ri, you could be the next David Koresh. 👍

Why don't the treasonous Scotland haters just feck off to Britland. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms. 

Scotland for Scots and our European brothers and sisters. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Why don't the treasonous Scotland haters just feck off to Britland.

 

We're already in Britland, mate. Isn't it fantastic. 👍

[ri Alban]

FAO all Unionists. 

of Scotland! 

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

FAO all Unionists. 

of Scotland! 

Scotland is part of the Union, the same as England, Wales and N.Ireland 

I would bet if English people had the chance of independence in 2014 they would have grabbed it 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

FAO all Unionists. 

of Scotland! 

A spell in the Tower of London would sort you and your treasonous posts

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

A spell in the Tower of London would sort you and your treasonous posts

 

Her Maj' would have him birched each morning before breakfast.

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Her Maj' would have him birched each morning before breakfast.

I would have them hung, drawn and quartered and their heads spiked at Berwick 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

Genuine question: Have you managed to escape this oppressive state and now live outside Scotland?

 

If so which utopian state, land of functioning parliamentary democracy, nation of social justice for all, do you actually reside in?

 

I'm interested in so much as you may be the torch bearer in a new age of enlightenment. 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

Well feck off then!!! Britland loves people like you, Give, Fox etc... 

I look forward to Scotland being purified of people like you. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by ri Alban

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I voted for a parliament here

[Weakened Offender]

On 29/08/2020 at 07:23, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Can all the rabid nationalists not just piss off to one of the Western Isles and set up their wee seperatist shin-dig there?

Then the rest of us could get on with the real work of trying to overthrow the current establishment and improve the lives of everyone on these Isles - instead of leaving our brothers and sisters to their fate and running away from our responibilities to some imiginary utopia like whining cowards.

 

Just think, ri, you could be the next David Koresh. 👍

 

Pretty sure the Western Isles are predominantly pro-union. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Pretty sure the Western Isles are predominantly pro-union. 

 

Hmm, are there any wee islands off the Republic of Ireland then?

[AlphonseCapone]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

 

Doesn't really matter if you are for or against independence, pretty certain most folk would read the above post and think what an absolute pile of shite from a very angry and self-loathing individual. 

[luckydug]

18 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Possible scenario. Scotland gains independence and, like the Brexit remoaners, wishes to rejoin union when things get too tough.

 

Envisage a referendum, dominated by the English of course, on the subject of readmitting Scotland.  I wonder how many tens of % above 50 would be the NO vote. 

 

Leaving the union will be a one way street. Scotland would never be trusted again.

You have a vivid imagination 😂

[Roxy Hearts]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

That's an awful and insulting statement to people who live and have made their lives here. People from all over the world including English, Welsh and NI. 

 

Just because we have the temerity to wish a better, democratic and more prosperous life for ourselves through self governance you present a bigoted point of view.

 

You need to move on dear fellow. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Roxy Hearts

[luckydug]

10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

You seem the kind of person that would be unhappy anywhere. 

England or Wales or NI are only a short trip away. You could try moving elsewhere if you are so unhappy here. 

You're a bit like those office bores who moan all day about their job despite having been in the job for donkeys years. 

I like Scotland and have been happy living and working here but if I found it to be the terrible place that you describe I would be off like shot. 

[jack D and coke]

13 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

'Turns out you are a Scot who hates Scotland.'

 

I despise Scotland, it is so common and ordinary to live with social injustice. And I am not the only one. 

Scotland is awful, in so many ways. 

 

I voted for a parliament here, in the belief that it would improve things. 

The joke is on me, it's worse now. 

 

Scotland, under you, and people like you, and Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, is a place you first have to survive, then next have to escape, in any way you can.

 

What an utter goon you are  

Its actually hilarious how much this hurts your feelings. 

[Space Mackerel]

Afternoon guys and girls.

 

Was speaking to an old school friend and her ENGLISH husband last night. Both have swapped from nawbags to a Yes now. 😊

[Space Mackerel]

14 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Enzo, don't spend your time replying to @jack D and coke, he really isn't worth the time and effort, he is just a wind up merchant.  IMO.

The Rise and Fall of Fat Doris Johnson

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/29/boris-johnson-faces-tory-wrath-as-party-slumps-in-shock-poll?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

 

 

[luckydug]

43 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

The Rise and Fall of Fat Doris Johnson

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/29/boris-johnson-faces-tory-wrath-as-party-slumps-in-shock-poll?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

 

 

They won't be too concerned they have another FOUR YEARS left to make a proper job of running or ruining the country. 

 

[SwindonJambo]

45 minutes ago, luckydug said:

They won't be too concerned they have another FOUR YEARS left to make a proper job of running or ruining the country. 

 

 

A bit more actually. They aren't legally required to hold another General Election until 2025. They're bound to suffer the odd bi Election loss between now and then but with an 80 seat majority, they won't be in the least bit concerned. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Afternoon guys and girls.

 

Was speaking to an old school friend and her ENGLISH husband last night. Both have swapped from nawbags to a Yes now. 😊

In Sundays episode of things that didn't happen.......

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Fun Boaby said:

In Sundays episode of things that didn't happen.......

😆

[Guest]

Would the separatists accept regional referenda? E .g.  those that vote for independence form a new independent Scotland and those that don't stay in the UK.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Fun Boaby

[jack D and coke]

26 minutes ago, Fun Boaby said:

Would the separatists accept regional referenda? E .g.  those that vote for independence form a new independent Scotland and those that don't stay in the UK.

 

So Scotland should stay in the EU and England and Wales leave?