The rise and fall of The SNP.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

😂 I don't have racists in my friendship group, well not that extreme.

Aw it’s racist I see now  

 

[SE16 3LN]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Aw it’s racist I see now  

 

, I’d abstain out of respect for the native people. 
It’s for the people born, bred and raised here.

 

Judge for yourself 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

, I’d abstain out of respect for the native people. 
It’s for the people born, bred and raised here.

 

Judge for yourself 

 

 

I have judged for myself. I’m talking about Scottish people, people born and bred here. What is wrong with that? Someone who’s been here a few years and getting a vote on that? I know the rules I just don’t agree with them. If for instance I lived in Catalonia and they had a vote I’d take nothing to do with it. I don’t know the depth of feeling etc.
Imo it’s nothing to do with me whether I live there or not is my point. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

If ever the snp won an indepence vote, would I be correct in saying that would be the end of their party as a new scotland would then be governed by for example a Labour, Conservative, lib dems and maybe a green type of party as the snp cause would be irrelevant? 

[Weakened Offender]

10 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Every time you post an opinion on this thread I just shake my head and laugh 😄

 

I do the same. I don't think he's right in the head. 

[Weakened Offender]

21 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

If ever the snp won an indepence vote, would I be correct in saying that would be the end of their party as a new scotland would then be governed by for example a Labour, Conservative, lib dems and maybe a green type of party as the snp cause would be irrelevant? 

 

Nurse! 

[SE16 3LN]

23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I have judged for myself. I’m talking about Scottish people, people born and bred here. What is wrong with that? Someone who’s been here a few years and getting a vote on that? I know the rules I just don’t agree with them. If for instance I lived in Catalonia and they had a vote I’d take nothing to do with it. I don’t know the depth of feeling etc.
Imo it’s nothing to do with me whether I live there or not is my point. 

The impact would be to exclude many black and Asian people who have been here many years, paid tax, contributed to their local communities, have children, even grand children who are proud Scots. It would also exclude more recent arrivals following conflicts around the world. There has to be a minimum, and 4 years seems fair to me, but if you support a position that involves birth then you sound like Trump on Obama I'm afraid.

[jake]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

You can all talk about another Scottish Independence Referendum, and quote polls.

But there probably won't be one for decades. 

The Scottish Parliament can't call one without Westminster, and Westminster have been repeatedly clear. 

 

 

 

 

Again if the Scottish electorate were clear in wanting independence I doubt Westminster could refuse a second referendum.

Also one could be called by the scottish government without permission .

It would certainly be interesting to see the response.

 

24 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

If ever the snp won an indepence vote, would I be correct in saying that would be the end of their party as a new scotland would then be governed by for example a Labour, Conservative, lib dems and maybe a green type of party as the snp cause would be irrelevant? 

They would still have policies which you could vote for.

Imo though Scotland would have to adopt aggressive free market policies to prosper.

 

[jake]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Nurse! 

Quality patter

🙄

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The impact would be to exclude many black and Asian people who have been here many years, paid tax, contributed to their local communities, have children, even grand children who are proud Scots. It would also exclude more recent arrivals following conflicts around the world. There has to be a minimum, and 4 years seems fair to me, but if you support a position that involves birth then you sound like Trump on Obama I'm afraid.

That really isn’t what I meant. Born and bred here can be any colour from any background. 
I was more meaning someone who came over 4-5 years before a vote. Imo they should abstain from voting in something of this magnitude. They have no clue what it means to people here. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

SNP want to allow 10 year olds to vote and Fat Alex has suggested Russian election monitors.

10 yr olds 😂

The rules are already in place and agreed. 
Like I said...Unionists crapping in their union jack Y-fronts!

[AlphonseCapone]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t think foreign nationals should get to vote and I said that the last time too. It’s a hugely emotional issue that shouldn’t have foreign people that mostly won’t have a clue about making a decision on. Polish people or Portuguese people or whatever should NOT be getting a vote on something like this imo. The rUK have more skin in this game yet they won’t get any say but the foreign nationals don’t understand what this is about imo. They might make it purely on the EU which they did in the last one and see where that got them. It wouldn’t matter how long I lived in a country I simply wouldn’t vote on something like this, I’d abstain out of respect for the native people. 
It’s for the people born, bred and raised here. As dumb as some of them are...

 

I think a minimum time here would be a reasonable approach for a referendum, say 5 years. Shorter for a general election, possibly 3. I can see where you are coming from and don't think you're being racist but I do think there are issues placing emphasis on where someone is born. 

 

My partner was born in Ireland but has studied and works here, lived here for almost 11 years, paid taxes for 7 years and will live here the rest of her days. Why shouldn't she have a say in how the country she is investing her life in be governed? 

[AlphonseCapone]

47 minutes ago, weehammy said:

The ‘rules’ applied to one referendum. Cameron allowed Fat Alex to run rings round him on the date and the question because he was so confident of winning. He made the same mistake with the EU referendum which should have required a minimum 55% to change our status ( that’s what other democracies have done in constitutional referenda).

No academic institution would approve a student research question that required a yes/no answer. If you think a 50.5% v 49.5% breakdown either way will settle things you’re deluding yourself.

 

The UK doesn't have a written constitution, it's based on precedent. That precedent has been set twice here in recent times. No amount of unionist redefining of what a majority means through fear changes that. 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I think a minimum time here would be a reasonable approach for a referendum, say 5 years. Shorter for a general election, possibly 3. I can see where you are coming from and don't think you're being racist but I do think there are issues placing emphasis on where someone is born. 

 

My partner was born in Ireland but has studied and works here, lived here for almost 11 years, paid taxes for 7 years and will live here the rest of her days. Why shouldn't she have a say in how the country she is investing her life in be governed? 

I appreciate that but I guess my answer would be what would she say if you voted to unify Ireland or keep NI in the U.K. in a referendum after living there for a few years? Especially if you voted the opposite of her view? If I stayed over there and they had a vote I wouldn’t vote in it. It would feel wrong to me. 
I know the rules and I accept it but I just don’t agree with it is all. 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Flawed precedent. Should we reintroduce corporal and capital punishment on the basis of past precedent?
And as far as redefining goes, that’s where the expression ‘unionist’ comes from (I.e. redefining the world as us and them - it’s what nationalism always does).

What else can you call them then? We’re in a Union atm and some don’t wish to be. No name calling from the unionist side either no? I wish people would stop pretending this is a one way street. 

[AlphonseCapone]

34 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I appreciate that but I guess my answer would be what would she say if you voted to unify Ireland or keep NI in the U.K. in a referendum after living there for a few years? Especially if you voted the opposite of her view? If I stayed over there and they had a vote I wouldn’t vote in it. It would feel wrong to me. 
I know the rules and I accept it but I just don’t agree with it is all. 

 

It's a tough one for sure. I'm not sure if I'd vote in that or not. I guess I can't put myself in her shoes to know how it feels because Scotland is and has always been my home but to her, Scotland feels like her home too, she has spent her entire adult life here. I don't know how you separate someone like that from someone that is here for a few years and intends to go home at some point, as I understand how it could be difficult to rationalise them voting on an issue that changes a country's history. 

 

I guess we should just be grateful we don't need to decide! 

[AlphonseCapone]

12 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Flawed precedent. Should we reintroduce corporal and capital punishment on the basis of past precedent?
And as far as redefining goes, that’s where the expression ‘unionist’ comes from (I.e. redefining the world as us and them - it’s what nationalism always does).

 

Those were laws that we've changed, they were written down, that's different. Be honest, if polling showed Yes consistently at 40%, you wouldn't be interested in this discussion. I understand why you want to change the rules of the game, but at least be upfront about it. You want to try and rig it. 

[Space Mackerel]

EU nationals got to vote in 2014 ref. I expect Swinney to be just as robust for the next one.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16895691

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I know the rules I’m just saying I don’t agree with them. 

I don't think ukers who live in Scotland should get a vote. Biased. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ri Alban

[jack D and coke]

Just now, ri Alban said:

I don't think rukers should get a vote either. 

If you want your indy you should give them it  

I think it would be fairly unanimous if England in particular got any say. 

[ri Alban]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

If you want your indy you should give them it  

I think it would be fairly unanimous if England in particular got any say. 

Only Scots who live in Scotland. Scots born Brits and the other Brits can feck off to Britland. 

[Space Mackerel]

So the rules are now this?

 

1. No EU Nationals

2. Must get over 70%

3. Only rich London based Brexit voting Scots around retirement age are also eligible

4. Under 18's are banned

 

Thats about it right? For now.

[ri Alban]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

So the rules are now this?

 

1. No EU Nationals

2. Must get over 70%

3. Only rich London based Brexit voting Scots around retirement age are also eligible

4. Under 18's are banned

 

Thats about it right? For now.

Scotland for Scots! 

[BRUCEM63]

On 17/08/2020 at 22:30, Space Mackerel said:

I don’t watch BBC propaganda like that pal, learned that a long time ago. In fact, I don’t really watch any BBC nowadays. 
And I don’t pay my TV license either. 

EU nationals got to vote in 2014 ref. I expect Swinney to be just as robust for the next one.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16895691

 

 

😃

[coconut doug]

4 hours ago, weehammy said:

The only people I would call ‘nationalists’ are those who are members or supporters of the Scottish National Party. The name provides a clue. There may well be Labour, Liberal, Green, even Tory voters who favour independence but I wouldn’t label them on that basis.

 

  Most' if not all of us were supporters of other parties before being persuaded that Indy is the way to go. The current increase in support for Indy is a reaction against a particular type of insular nationalism evidenced by the Brexit vote, constant references to Britain being the best in the world by Tories and in particular their openly racist and xenophobic P.M. The constant WW2 chat is particularly nauseating with the implication that those jumping about with all the medals on and the solemn faces were actually there. 

         Wholly unjustified and illegal invasions and bombings, the unqualified support and military intervention for the worst despots and regimes on the planet often inflicted upon the world's poorest and weakest. Leaders responsible for bombing civilian targets in Europe or torpedoing ancient battleships full of conscripts outwith and steaming away from exclusion zones should tell you who the nationalists are and why so many of us now wish to leave this behind.   

 

      All this and a lot more done in the national interest apparently as is training and funding terrorist organisations, turning a blind eye to the summary execution of enemy combatants, torturing civilians in other countries, all in contravention of international law. We don't need UN resolutions or international law because we are Great Britain and we are exceptional.

  Almost everybody on the planet has some affinity with the country they are born or live in. Countries are surrounded by borders, every one of them, and as far as i am aware every inhabitant of these delineated spaces is entitled to feel something for their country and act in its interests without being branded nationalists or accused of hating their neighbours. 

 

 The use of terms nationalism and fat Alex really are poor even if they are typical of Unionists on this forum.  You don't need to scratch the surface of most unionists on here to see that anti-Scottish prejudice is what drives them.

[North Berwick Jambo]

You can smell the fear & the polls are only going to keep going in one direction. If the Tories/British nationalists think this was a bad week just wait till the “Boris banging the violinist” story really hits the press, popcorn ready 🍿 😉  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, North Berwick Jambo said:

You can smell the fear & the polls are only going to keep going in one direction. If the Tories/British nationalists think this was a bad week just wait till the “Boris banging the violinist” story really hits the press, popcorn ready 🍿 😉  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

He been a bad boy has he?  

Im starting to like him I’ll be honest. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

56 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Scratch the surface of the SNP’s ‘progressive’ nationalism and this is what lurks beneath.

Anti-English prejudice.

 

53 minutes ago, weehammy said:

I rest my case!
🤦🏻

 

I don't think the poster you are responding to was being entirely serious, and you bit like a Great White, well done

 

 

...and BTW your first response is utter codswallop! 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, weehammy said:

Bizarre...

[AlphonseCapone]

6 hours ago, weehammy said:

I don’t want to ‘rig’ anything though. I readily admit that I don’t favour independence but my views on referenda haven’t changed over time.

(a) They are not an appropriate way to decide things in a parliamentary democracy.

(hence their historical popularity among dictators)
(b) If held, there should be an in-built requirement that any resulting changes are on the basis of a clear majority.

(I’m open-minded about the precise percentages)
I quite understand that people will cry foul due to recent precedents but I’ve already explained that imo these precedents were established mainly due to the incompetence and arrogance of Cameron.
 

 

See before the EU referendum I might have been persuaded that major constitutional changes need more than 50% + 1 but having lost both referendums I've voted on in my life, you'll need to excuse me for not being willing to countenance a change to the rules when one of those things is now looking much more likely. 

[Sarah O]

On 21/08/2020 at 21:48, manaliveits105 said:

Great to have the Prime Minister holidaying in Scotland trolling Jimmy 

 

Great to have the Prime Minister trolled back out of Scotland.

[North Berwick Jambo]

25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

He been a bad boy has he?  

Im starting to like him I’ll be honest. 

 

If the stories on Twitter, Reddit etc are true then you’ve got to love a super injunction & they never last 😉

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, North Berwick Jambo said:

 

If the stories on Twitter, Reddit etc are true then you’ve got to love a super injunction & they never last 😉

Sumboy so he is  

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Sumboy so he is  

 

Madness women touch him. 

[Cade]

If anybody actually believes that Boris was in a wee tent in the back garden of a private cottage in the north-west of Scotland and not actually in Greece celebrating his father's 80th birthday with the rest of his family then that person is a fool.

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

If anybody actually believes that Boris was in a wee tent in the back garden of a private cottage in the north-west of Scotland and not actually in Greece celebrating his father's 80th birthday with the rest of his family then that person is a fool.

 

 

Even Hugo Rifkind was ripping him to bits last night.

 

Son of Malky, ex Tory Defence high heed yin.

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Most of that is like reading a very earnest higher modern studies essay but you saved the best until last.

That is the notion that even those of us who can trace our ancestry back through the centuries of life in Scotland are somehow less Scottish than those who now support independence.
Thats what nationalism does, whether it’s the Scottish, English, Irish, Russian, or Serb version.
My reply was to a post advocating ‘Scotland for the Scots’. You can’t get much more blatant than that.

 

You're far too clever for me. You managed to reply a post that hadn't been posted.

 

The Scots have a bit of English, Irish, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Italian, Indian, Polish and many more. That's who we are now and if you're in then you are in. It is nothing to do with where your ancestors came from. We do not want the people of Scotland (the Scots) to classified according to where their ancestors came from.

 

There was no suggestion that because your ancestors came from Scotland they and you were less Scottish than those who now support independence. In asserting this notion you have demonstrated that as far as you are concerned nationality is about where you and your family were born and not about where they choose to live. I could argue that those who support independence are more Scottish than those who don't but i don't actually accept this view although there may be arguments to support it but it has nothing to do with where your ancestors came from. 

 

 There is a problem though with the way you characterise people. Telling us that underneath the SNP's progressive nationalism is anti English feeling. Does this sentiment end with the SNP or is it found all across the Indy movement? Independence is now supported by an absolute majority of voters  and you are telling us that these people are nationalists and anti-English. Obviously you have no evidence to support this view but even holding this view is an act of anti-Scottishness. You are telling us that we are supporting something that is xenophobic and that we are pretending it is otherwise i.e we really do hate the English even though in the modern world many of us are English, are married to English people, have English family and friends, have worked in England. Nicola Sturgeon's (Krankie to you) father is English. Do you think she hates him? Thinking that Scotland might do a better job of governing itself were it independent might be wrong but for the vast majority of us it is not  anti-English. Anyone who thinks it is though is massively misinformed or anti-Scottish.

 

I notice you didn't bother to refute any of the accusations of British Nationalist exceptionalism. Why should you you are a British Nationalist after all? 

 

 

 

  

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

If anybody actually believes that Boris was in a wee tent in the back garden of a private cottage in the north-west of Scotland and not actually in Greece celebrating his father's 80th birthday with the rest of his family then that person is a fool.

 

 

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/boris-johnson-scots-holiday-snaps-22563824.amp

 

Looks more like Scotland than Greece to me. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by AlphonseCapone

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/boris-johnson-scots-holiday-snaps-22563824.amp

 

Looks more like Scotland than Greece to me. 

 

Some of the photos of him then and some of him a week ago don't match up.

 

He looks to have put on quite a few stone.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

[Space Mackerel]

From a luxury paid holiday of his pals and donors in Mustique to camping in the midgies in Auchternaewhere and people fall for it time and time again.

[AlphonseCapone]

8 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

From a luxury paid holiday of his pals and donors in Mustique to camping in the midgies in Auchternaewhere and people fall for it time and time again.

 

I don't get the lie? Who gives a **** where the prick goes on holiday? 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I don't get the lie? Who gives a **** where the prick goes on holiday? 

 

Do you honestly think a PM or anyone with more than £100 in their tail, would stay in that shite tent, in Scotland, in full midge season?

 

[AlphonseCapone]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Do you honestly think a PM or anyone with more than £100 in their tail, would stay in that shite tent, in Scotland, in full midge season?

 

 

I don't care. No one does. That's why I don't understand the supposed lie. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I don't care. No one does. That's why I don't understand the supposed lie. 

 

There is a lot of dafties who suck up the right wing press and Dominic Cummings nowadays, look at weehammy for instance on here, prime example.

 

And these dafties want even more uber dafties from down Sarf a vote on Scottish Indy?

Edited August 22, 2020 by Space Mackerel

[Space Mackerel]

 

[ri Alban]

[manaliveits105]

Did Scots not come from Ireland with Dalrynda - probably to take the Picts jobs and start Irish roots fitba teams 

I’m proud to be a Pict 

FTSNP 

[jack D and coke]

10 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Do you honestly think a PM or anyone with more than £100 in their tail, would stay in that shite tent, in Scotland, in full midge season?

 

It’s funny to think that he might tho  

Soon as I saw the tent, pitched on a hill I pished myself. 
I think the lie is all about him coming up to scotchland just cos he loves us and scotchland so much he doesn’t want us to leave. He loves camping in a farmers field with a six month old baby getting eaten alive my midges 

I’m honestly starting to like the guy. 

[Ron Burgundy]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 16:21, Justin Z said:

 

If you don't mind, please show us the "rule"—i.e. legal document, commission findings, agreement, statute, etc., that states that the 2014 referendum was to be "once in a generation".

 

Demerits for referencing a politician's rhetoric broadly referring to the general timing of such referenda in recent years, with 1979 and 1998 being approximately one generation apart, and 1998 and 2014, the same.

 

Bonus points for looking up the part of the Smith Commission report that states a "sovereign right of the people of Scotland to determine the form of government best suited to their needs" while saying nothing about time restrictions on the exercising of this fundamental right.

Not sure why my response to this has been removed.

It was neither offensive or controversial.

Suppose that's just the world we live in nowadays.