The rise and fall of The SNP.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I wish I could be over it. When it flares up, it makes me feel physically ill. It is not a beautiful thing, it can be so ugly.

 

How are you, hope you are well.

I can tell man  

I’m sound as mate, hope you’re alright an all. 
Watched that sensational Bayern performance in the pub tonight.
Beautiful stuff, what a team they atm. 

 

[Space Mackerel]

35 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

Scotland was around before England for your information 

 

Scotland was formed in 843 AD and arguably modern England came into fruition in 1066 after the Battle of Hastings.

 

So it’s not a myth, the only myth is in your head.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

thanks

Time to read up on history, there is even Scottish Crown Jewels you can see in Edinburgh Castle. 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

They’re even older than the English yins funnily enough.

 

https://www.edinburghcastle.scot/see-and-do/highlights/honours-of-scotland

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Scotland was around before England for your information 

 

Scotland was formed in 843 AD and arguably modern England came into fruition in 1066 after the Battle of Hastings.

 

So it’s not a myth, the only myth is in your head.

 

 

We were at war with Germany until 1945. Why would you want anything to do with them in the EU while frothing at the mouth over some skirmishes with England about 1000 years ago??

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We were at war with Germany until 1945. Why would you want anything to do with them in the EU while frothing at the mouth over some skirmishes with England about 1000 years ago??

Here comes the Second World War bantz now for the BMW and Audi driver readers. 
 

Any takers? 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I am not ignorant of the history of the British Isles. 

 

I regard it as the reason why the United Kingdom is the least worst solution to the situation. 

 

Which is why people like yourself seem selfish to me. Because you are not giving due consideration to everyone else. Only your needs matter.

 

And, you are doing that on the grounds of false pretences. Because, imo, the people that live in Scotland, are generally fine and ok. There is no need for Scottish Independence.

 

But you have to communicate a message that fits your selfish need for independence now, you have no choice, I suppose. 

Unfortunately, that means you make everybody suffer this seemingly never-ending, pointless moment.

 

Knowing history, is one thing. Learning from it, is a different thing. 

These people that are fine but on foodbanks in 2020? 
 

Thoughts? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Here comes the Second World War bantz now for the BMW and Audi driver readers. 
 

Any takers? 

But your happy to quote battles that nobody cares about, or even knows about, from hundreds of years ago. 

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

But your happy to quote battles that nobody cares about, or even knows about, from hundreds of years ago. 

Do you like Germany? 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I am not ignorant of the history of the British Isles. 

 

I regard it as the reason why the United Kingdom is the least worst solution to the situation. 

 

Which is why people like yourself seem selfish to me. Because you are not giving due consideration to everyone else. Only your needs matter.

 

And, you are doing that on the grounds of false pretences. Because, imo, the people that live in Scotland, are generally fine and ok. There is no need for Scottish Independence.

 

But you have to communicate a message that fits your selfish need for independence now, you have no choice, I suppose. 

Unfortunately, that means you make everybody suffer this seemingly never-ending, pointless moment.

 

Knowing history, is one thing. Learning from it, is a different thing. 

Your views are fine. Why don’t you just get on with it man? Stop obsessing. 
I know spacey personally and he’s a great lad (good hearts man) he gets a bit of stick on here but he’s not how he comes across, he’s a lot more tongue in cheek than people realise. I laugh when I see people really going to town on his comments tbh. You should take them with a pinch of salt too. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

Are rich voters who vote for tax reductions selfish? 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Your views are fine. Why don’t you just get on with it man? Stop obsessing. 
I know spacey personally and he’s a great lad he gets a bit of stick on here but he’s not how he comes across, he’s a lot more tongue in cheek than people realise. I laugh when I see people really going to town on his comments tbh. You should take them with a pinch of salt too. 

People need to start really thinking but there’s not a lot of thinking going on this thread. 

[jack D and coke]

42 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I don't appreciate you saying I am obsessing. That seems harsh.

 

I am allowed to speak my point of view in a democracy. And I am free to speak with people about important issues. 

You’re obsessing about me saying you’re obsessing man, I didn’t mean it literally, chill man.
You're allowed to say whatever you want ive said that. I’m not digging you out. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Please, desist from telling me I am obsessing about anything. 

I am not obsessing about anything. 

 

 

Well looking in your obsess about indy. You can take that whatever way you want man. 
Im away to my bed👍🏼

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But your happy to quote battles that nobody cares about, or even knows about, from hundreds of years ago. 

I don't think that was his point.  I think he was pointing out that Scottish independence can't be a myth, because its happened before. 

[jack D and coke]

18 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

What a pointless input from you here. 

I hope you got something out of it. 

I didn't.

I think you think I’m trying to dismiss your points and score goals against you. I’m really not. 
 

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I think you think I’m trying to dismiss your points and score goals against you. I’m really not.

 

He seems pretty obsessed with that idea tbf

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

Great post 

the Scottish people are sick of yer independence pash - gees peace and let us get on with enjoying our lives 

[Roxy Hearts]

10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

Independence a myth, what, like Sir Robert the Bruce? Most countries on this planet are independent and enjoy their self governance and decision making. It's only natural for Scots and the people who live here. You have some weird logic at times. 

[jack D and coke]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great post 

the Scottish people are sick of yer independence pash - gees peace and let us get on with enjoying our lives 

I never actually seen that post. 
That’s what I meant with utterly obsessed. The guy has lost it man. His brain is minced with it. 

[Weakened Offender]

12 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I am not ignorant of the history of the British Isles. 

 

I regard it as the reason why the United Kingdom is the least worst solution to the situation. 

 

Which is why people like yourself seem selfish to me. Because you are not giving due consideration to everyone else. Only your needs matter.

 

And, you are doing that on the grounds of false pretences. Because, imo, the people that live in Scotland, are generally fine and ok. There is no need for Scottish Independence.

 

But you have to communicate a message that fits your selfish need for independence now, you have no choice, I suppose. 

Unfortunately, that means you make everybody suffer this seemingly never-ending, pointless moment.

 

Knowing history, is one thing. Learning from it, is a different thing. 

 

See once independence has been achieved, I PROMISE to give you the BIGGEST cuddle ever and make it all better. ❤️

[Justin Z]

[ri Alban]

🤣

[OTT]

17 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

 

I mean its not a myth. We are a legitimate country with a history prior to and since 1707. So thats just absolute nonsense. If independence was a solution to a problem we don't have then why are the SNP continuing to build support? Despite being restricted to just one nation within the UK, they are the  3rd largest party by membership, bigger than the Lib dems.. my point is that if everything was as rosy as you'd have as believe then there wouldn't be a demand for a party built on nationalism. The reality is there is a huge democratic deficit within the UK that leaves many in Scotland and Wales feeling disenfranchised. I don't think the UK government quite understand that the more they fight it the stronger its growing.

 

Whether you agree or not, this is the furthest right tory government since Thatcher who are pursuing policies which do not line up with the majority of people in Scotland. Be that Brexit, coming down hard on immigrants or sucking up to Trump in an extremely worrying way. I don't see this as doing anything but continue to build the case for an Independent Scotland. The recession ended 10 years ago (apparently) yet we have more food banks on our streets than ever before. I'm not even trying to point score at this point, your head is not for turning. I would say that by continuing to be dismissive of rising demand for self rule the faster the push for Independence will occur. 

 

I genuinely think Johnson would be far better served setting about drawing up a face saving plan which maintains a union but gives Scotland the independence it wants. I think any attempt to smother us in Unionism will have the opposite effect and speed up the demise of the union. 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, weehammy said:

The SNP f****d up. You’re smarta**e humour ( sorry humor) doesn’t change that.

There’s nothing even slightly funny about teenagers getting cheated out of their correct results. Particularly in deprived areas and especially given the mental health problems effecting that age group following lockdown. 
 

the determination to defend the snp all the time is sickening tbh. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by GinRummy

[Justin Z]

12 minutes ago, weehammy said:

The SNP f****d up. You’re smarta**e humour ( sorry humor) doesn’t change that.

 

While you're needlessly self-correcting you'll want to change that to "Your", also

 

Yeah I think it's pretty clear they ****ed up, in fact, they said so themselves and to prove it wasn't an empty gesture, made changes. They listened to their constituents and responded to negative feedback, like a functioning government is supposed to do. What my "smartarse humour" points out is that the UK Government ****ed up in equal measure and their response to protests equally as vociferous has been to put their heads in the sand and hope it goes away.

 

Top Labour man there hammy, letting this Tory government off because you are blinded by SNP hatred, which is the actual thing going on here, not defending the SNP—but at least you gave deflection a go I guess.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Justin Z

[Unknown user]

11 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great post 

the Scottish people are sick of yer independence pash - gees peace and let us get on with enjoying our lives 

 it was a shite post!

Independence is a myth? It's false? TF does that even mean?

[Justin Z]

Just now, Smithee said:

 it was a shite post!

Independence is a myth? It's false? TF does that even mean?

 

Haha good point. Obsession does often lead people to conclusions that are quite literally divorced from reality.

[Cade]

The SNP only fecked up by bending to pressure and overruling the SQA, allowing the ludicrous "teacher's guess" results to stand.

 

Standard Grade passes went up 10.7%

Highers went up 14.4%

Advanced Highers went up 13.7%

All in a single year.

With half the school year being done on laptops from home.

And with no exams being sat.

 

Obviously those were overly generous grades so the SQA had to find some way of trying to make them more realistic.

The way they went about that caused all the problems.

They had 5 months in which to form their algorithm then perform a public consultation with teaching unions to come to an accepted consensus and ratified algorithm, but they did not do this.
They just pressed on with their algorithm.

So when those "teacher's guess" grades got downgraded to be more realistic, all the accusations of class war, stealing kid's futures, bonkers conspiracy theories and all manner of other shite started flying about.

No way in hell did all three exam levels all suddenly leap into legitimate double-figure single-year gains.

 

But everybody moaned so the SNP caved in and stepped in and now we have an entire echelon of kids with almost meaningless grades because they've been wildly overstated.

 

Time will tell how many of them drop out of Uni. 

If lots of them do, then they were never good enough and their inflated grades are exposed.

If hardly any do, then teachers really do know best and the entire examinations system is useless.

 

 

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

But everybody moaned so the SNP caved in and stepped in and now we have an entire echelon of kids with almost meaningless grades because they've been wildly overstated.

 

This is well said, and it ought to be a mark against them. However, they did try to do something, even if that something was effectively caving. No government is perfect, but responsiveness to the constituency is a pretty good indicator of whether they're at least trying to serve the people or not. In stark contrast in this instance to the UK Government.

 

Continuing to call them out when they aren't perfect—but not loudly enough to the tastes of a few—is not "defending them all the time", no matter how much they want it to be.

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

Time will tell how many of them drop out of Uni. 

If lots of them do, then they were never good enough and their inflated grades are exposed.

If hardly any do, then teachers really do know best and the entire examinations system is useless.

 

Also this'll be really interesting to keep an eye on.

 

The US system is absolutely nothing like the UK system and I feel the UK system is better, but it's also pretty clear that the exams system acts as cement on class boundaries, intentionally or not. Hopefully long-term, something positive results.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

There’s nothing even slightly funny about teenagers getting cheated out of their correct results. Particularly in deprived areas and especially given the mental health problems effecting that age group following lockdown. 
 

the determination to defend the snp all the time is sickening tbh. 

 

1 hour ago, Cade said:

The SNP only fecked up by bending to pressure and overruling the SQA, allowing the ludicrous "teacher's guess" results to stand.

 

Standard Grade passes went up 10.7%

Highers went up 14.4%

Advanced Highers went up 13.7%

All in a single year.

With half the school year being done on laptops from home.

And with no exams being sat.

 

Obviously those were overly generous grades so the SQA had to find some way of trying to make them more realistic.

The way they went about that caused all the problems.

They had 5 months in which to form their algorithm then perform a public consultation with teaching unions to come to an accepted consensus and ratified algorithm, but they did not do this.
They just pressed on with their algorithm.

So when those "teacher's guess" grades got downgraded to be more realistic, all the accusations of class war, stealing kid's futures, bonkers conspiracy theories and all manner of other shite started flying about.

No way in hell did all three exam levels all suddenly leap into legitimate double-figure single-year gains.

 

But everybody moaned so the SNP caved in and stepped in and now we have an entire echelon of kids with almost meaningless grades because they've been wildly overstated.

 

Time will tell how many of them drop out of Uni. 

If lots of them do, then they were never good enough and their inflated grades are exposed.

If hardly any do, then teachers really do know best and the entire examinations system is useless.

 

 

The SNP should do this every year. 100% pass mark. World's greatest education system. 👍

 

 

Then we'd have unionist

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

This is well said, and it ought to be a mark against them. However, they did try to do something, even if that something was effectively caving. No government is perfect, but responsiveness to the constituency is a pretty good indicator of whether they're at least trying to serve the people or not. In stark contrast in this instance to the UK Government.

 

Continuing to call them out when they aren't perfect—but not loudly enough to the tastes of a few—is not "defending them all the time", no matter how much they want it to be.

I'd rather we had more pupils who didn't deserve better grades, so the ones who do, are not left demoralised. The ones who don't deserve will laugh and won't care. 

 

[Pans Jambo]

13 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great post 

the Scottish people are sick of yer independence pash - gees peace and let us get on with enjoying our lives 

No. U geez peace wi yer Westminster brown nosing and your submissive monarchy & empire rose tinted specs. Weird man!

 

[ri Alban]

20 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

I prefer being part of the UK and ripping into, sticking it up my English mates when we get the better of them.

 

It's been the same for a couple of centuries. Comrades in British battalions fighting along side each other but having banter with each other about which country is best.

Being this independent country with an invisible border in the northern part of the British isles doesn't float my boat 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

The SNP should do this every year. 100% pass mark. World's greatest education system. 👍

 

 

Then we'd have unionist

Correct. Unionists don't want what's best for Scotland. Strange people. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I prefer being part of the UK and ripping into, sticking it up my English mates when we get the better of them.

 

It's been the same for a couple of centuries. Comrades in British battalions fighting along side each other but having banter with each other about which country is best.

Being this independent country with an invisible border in the northern part of the British isles doesn't float my boat 

 

Great, we get to banter once in a while whilst our different needs and priorities are ignored or more often than not ridiculed at Westminster.

 

Just don't get people like yours mindset, can we do any worse on our own than having people like Thatcher, Major, Blair, IDS, May, and not to forget  Johnston "managing" our aspirations?

[Nucky Thompson]

34 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 can we do any worse on our own than having people like Thatcher, Major, Blair, IDS, May, and not to forget  Johnston "managing" our aspirations?

Aye we could have people like Salmond and Sturgeon ruining our country

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye we could have people like Salmond and Sturgeon ruining our country

 

Except, of course, that they would step out once independance was won...and unless elected would have no input into the running of the country

Political parties would be voted on with regard to how we would be governed...but you know this and I can only assume you are mildy trolling...which is fine

 

[Janbo1874]

I thought I would drop this in and run away like fearty Yoon😉

[ri Alban]

24 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye we could have people like Salmond and Sturgeon ruining our country

Scotland had been ruined for 300 years, until Alex and Nicola put a stop to it. The UK have had their fun with Scotland. 

 

Tick Tock!!! 

Edited August 15, 2020 by ri Alban

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Scotland had been ruined for 300 years, until Alex and Nicola put a stop to it. The UK have had their fun with Scotland. 

 

Tick Tock!!! 

Scotland has been fine since the dawn of time. The UK is Scotland as much as it is England

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

That would be me, With my minced brain. 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

Ooooooops. Who said Boris won’t agree to another Indyref2? 
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-must-agree-to-indyref2-to-defend-the-union-says-former-scots-tory-chairman-peter-duncan-lvfc3nhtg

 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Ooooooops. Who said Boris won’t agree to another Indyref2? 
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-must-agree-to-indyref2-to-defend-the-union-says-former-scots-tory-chairman-peter-duncan-lvfc3nhtg

 

 

 

I think he's right. I think the one thing everyone in this thread can agree on is that we need to move on, the difference of opinion coming in how we do that. The demand for another referendum isn't going away which means that the political sphere within Scotland will continue to be dominated by constitutional issues until the referendum is settled. This 'once in a generation' stuff the tories are desperately latching onto is incredible. The only trace of that phrase every being uttered was once by Salmond as an off the cuff remark to emphasise the importance of it. Nowhere in the Scotland Act was this agreed or even in mainstream discussion by either side during 2014. A single remark was made and has been clung onto for dear life by the Tories.

 

I do fear though that a case for the union campaign run by Cummings will need to be carefully watched. Much like with the Brexit bus and other issues, he's a man totally unafraid of lying to achieve his ends. Clearly with so much riding on this we'll see every trick in the book being thrown to try to maintain the Union. Its so important that the Yes camp can answer the difficult questions clearly and unambiguously this time. Currency being a clear bone of contention which won no voters. If we want to continue using Sterling, and they take the same approach Osborne did in 2014 (they wouldn't allow it) they need to answer why thats nonsense, why the UK needs Scotland to continue using it. 

 

Ultimately, there isn't a positive case for the Union, if there was Darling would have led with that in 2014. I think we'll see a campaign built on lies, smear and fear. My hope is that Cummings very involvement is enough to poison the well for people bothering to listen to his rhetoric. I think the lack of positivity for the Union can actually be pretty well characterised by some of the unionist posters on this thread. Condescension and dismissiveness with regards to Independence and little attempt to actually emphasise why the Union is so good for us. Seems more focused on why Independence is bad rather than any meaningful attempt to push a case for the union. I mean its easy to be a naysayer, 'don't buy a house, what if it loses value', 'don't go outside, you might get hit by a bus'. Its just not credible. 

 

I'm not trying to say Independence is the answer to all out problems, but I am saying that with that we'd be free to actually address those problems head on. How many times do you see Labour or the Tories trying to point out a failing at FMQs only for it to be highlighted that its not a devolved matter? Being able to have the freedom to address those issues and try different ideas to tackle serious issues may radically improve areas like drug addiction or other societal issues. 

[Space Mackerel]

[Weakened Offender]

23 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Scotland has been fine since the dawn of time. The UK is Scotland as much as it is England

 

It might strengthen the case for maintaining the union if Scottish Unionists spent more time arguing that point with English politicians/people. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Weakened Offender

[Pans Jambo]

On 15/08/2020 at 20:37, Nucky Thompson said:

I prefer being part of the UK and ripping into, sticking it up my English mates when we get the better of them.

 

It's been the same for a couple of centuries. Comrades in British battalions fighting along side each other but having banter with each other about which country is best.

Being this independent country with an invisible border in the northern part of the British isles doesn't float my boat 

 

Banter is what my children find to be most important too...

[Pans Jambo]

17 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Thread title change please Mods...The rise and rise of the SNP.