The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The SG along with their pals at the SPFL have just ordered Hearts to stop training because Celtic and Aberdeen players break the rules.

 

Any Hearts fan who supports this ramshackle party should give themselves a shake

 

 

 

I'm not sure how you conflate fitba, public health and Scottish independence.

 

But you have managed it somehow. In your brain.

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I'm not sure how you conflate fitba, public health and Scottish independence.

 

But you have managed it somehow. In your brain.

So do you agree with the SG ordering Hearts to stop training?  Off course you do, ya fecking tartan weirdo 

[Brighton Jambo]

The widely held (and fair) view is that Nicola Sturgeon has done a good job during COVID, she had been prominent and there is the perception that Scotland has done better then England.  She is on TV every day reinforcing that message and image.  

 

The UK government is led by a hugely divisive bumbling idiot who is driving us off a brexit no deal cliff who have ignored the Union.

 

Despite all this support for Independence is only at 53% and even that figure includes don’t knows.  
 

Once we get back to talking about the constitutional issues, SG performance on Health and Education the answered currency, border and trade questions we will see how solid the figure is.  
 

Also we are about to enter one of the largest recessions the world has ever seen, good luck persuading people now is the right time for independence with that happening.  And clearly Boris and by all accounts Kier Starmer are starting to focus far more effort on Scotland and making the case for the union.

 

53% is hardly a figure to lose sleep over given all of the above.   I am sure if I’m a year I am sure someone will remind me of this post!! 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

So do you agree with the SG ordering Hearts to stop training?  Off course you do, ya fecking tartan weirdo 

 

Seems a bit strange but it's only for a couple of weeks.

 

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

So do you agree with the SG ordering Hearts to stop training?  Off course you do, ya fecking tartan weirdo 

 

You shouldn't jump to conclusions, are you going to apologise?

 

[Nucky Thompson]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You shouldn't jump to conclusions, are you going to apologise?

 

Obviously the dentist doesn't know what his boss is doing

 

Petrie has said they are following strict guidelines from Nicola Sturgeon 

[SE16 3LN]

The SG is taking a dry one from Doncaster and Petrie. Yet another Holyrood induced calamity.

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

ugly American

What ever happened to him?

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The SG is taking a dry one from Doncaster and Petrie. Yet another Holyrood induced calamity.

 

Even Murray is brighter than you.

 

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Even Murray is brighter than you.

 

An empty bawbag is brighter than you. NS ruffled the dirty Celtic feathers and this is their response. What do you think she'll do space boy.?

[Don Dan]

Sorry it’s a long post but the facts need to be laid out.

 

Spoiler

Hearts have been ordered to stop training immediately under new guidelines issued today by the Scottish FA and Scottish Professional Football League.

The Joint Response Group have told all teams outwith the Scottish Premiership they cannot train until at least August 24 following breach of Covid 19 guidelines by Aberdeen and Celtic players.

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After talks between the SFA, SPFL and Scottish Government ministers, extra checks are to be done to evaluate clubs’ facilities and ensure they are complying with all protocols.

Tynecastle officials are outraged at the decision, which comes almost two weeks after they welcomed players back to Riccarton.

Hearts are the only club outside the top flight to resume training so far. They are adamant they have complied with all guidelines and should not be punished for misdemeanours by individuals at other clubs.

Their players have been tested twice a week at considerable financial cost, and a bio bubble has been created at the Oriam training complex.

They have gone to great lengths to put sessions on under strict health measures and feel they have now had the rug pulled away from them.

Glasgow City Women FC are allowed to continue training as they prepare for a Champions League tie on August 21.

They will be visited for an audit to verify their compliance with the health and safety measures, but Hearts have not been given that option by the SPFL or SFA.

The Edinburgh club are further enraged that, as they prepare for a Scottish Cup semi-final against Hibs in a competition run by the SFA, they are now prevented from training whilst their opponents are free to both train and play matches.

The Premiership began on August 1 but Hearts’ Championship campaign does not start until October 17. League One and League Two are due to kick off the same day. The Scottish Cup semi-finals are scheduled for October 31 and November 1.

The Scottish Government had threatened to suspend all football after eight Aberdeen players and the Celtic defender Boli Bolingoli ignored guidelines.

A lengthy statement issued by the SFA/SPFL Joint Response Group confirmed that only Premiership teams can train until at least August 24.

It read: “The Joint Response Group today outlines a wide range of measures agreed with the Scottish Government to reinforce Scottish football’s commitment to public health and adherence to protocols.

“These measures have been approved by the JRG and follow extensive discussions with Scottish Government Ministers and health advisers.

“They are as follows:

“ENFORCEMENT - The JRG has worked to ensure that existing rules will be strengthened to include the provision of sanctions for players who do not adhere to COVID-specific football protocols or government public health guidelines. This will encompass recent breaches and further details will be provided tomorrow.

“EVALUATION - In order to provide government health officials with the necessary confidence that Scottish football can return safely and in accordance with relevant government guidelines and football protocols, the Scottish FA has agreed that the return to training for clubs outwith the SPFL Premiership – which includes all organised adult football over-18 - will be delayed until at least 24 August, pending updated government guidance on the 20th. This is to ensure that:

“All club facilities comply with the current JRG Protocols, social distancing and hygiene measures.

“All club policies and procedures comply with the current protocols and government guidance.

“Club testing regimes in the professional game comply with the protocols.

"Players and staff at all levels of the game have been reminded of the latest government guidance.

“EDUCATION – Professor Jason Leitch, the National Clinical Director for Scotland, has produced a video message outlining, in the clearest terms, what professional footballers can and cannot do within the existing government guidelines. This message will be reinforced on a regular basis via digital communication.

“ENGAGEMENT – The SPFL and Scottish FA have gifted Scottish Government advertising space to promote public health messaging on matchdays in-stadia, using LED advertising and via other owned assets for all SPFL competitions and the William Hill Scottish Cup semi-finals and final.

“Rod Petrie, Joint Response Group Chair: ‘The message from First Minister could not have been clearer. The JRG must now ensure that the planned resumption of football beyond the Scottish Premiership is done in a controlled manner with the strictest adherence to protocols and guidelines.

“’The pause on the return to training for the professional game outwith the Scottish Premiership will not impact on the proposed start dates of the respective league competitions but will give sufficient time to reinforce protocols, educate players and make sure of the ability of clubs in the lower divisions to conform.’

“Neil Doncaster, SPFL Chief Executive: ‘Today’s measures underline the fact that Scottish football is doing everything it possibly can to protect our game. The recent, high-profile breaches must be used as further motivation for all those with our game’s best interests at heart to comply absolutely with these necessary restrictions and safeguards.’

“Additional guidance notes:

“Glasgow City Women’s FC can continue to train in preparation for their UEFA Women’s Champions League tie against Wolfsburg on 21 August and will be visited to audit and verify compliance.

“Heart of Midlothian FC has been informed of the need to pause their current training programme until at least 24 August.

“Adult (over-18) recreational football will not be permitted to participate in any form of organised training.

“Youth (under-18) football can continue in line with current Scottish Government guidance.”

 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

An empty bawbag is brighter than you. NS ruffled the dirty Celtic feathers and this is their response. What do you think she'll do space boy.?

 

Once again

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jason-leitch-insists-hearts-training-22518173

[Don Dan]

“Rod Petrie, Joint Response Group Chair: ‘The message from First Minister could not have been clearer. The JRG must now ensure that the planned resumption of football beyond the Scottish Premiership is done in a controlled manner with the strictest adherence to protocols and guidelines.

 

meanwhile Celtic’s and Aberdeen can continue to train despite them being the main culprits. Hearts once again punished for something they didn’t do! 
 

ONLY HEARTS!

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Once again

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jason-leitch-insists-hearts-training-22518173

Why do you keep posting a link to what the dentist has said?

He's just the monkey, it's his boss and your hero, the organ grinder that has taken the decision

[SE16 3LN]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Once again

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jason-leitch-insists-hearts-training-22518173

Exactly Space Boy. The SPFL/SFA/Doncaster/Petrie have said no action against the clubs responsible so **** you SG, and while we're at  we'll chuck Hearts under another bus. Again, what do you think the SG/NS will do? This is the last time I ask you.

[Justin Z]

25 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

What ever happened to him?

 

Have wondered the same. Good dude.

[maroonlegions]

Sturgeon hands Ruth Davidson her arse on a plate, glorious.

 

 

 

Ruth Davidson "brutally dismantled" by Nicola Sturgeon in Scottish Parliament

 

"Can I gently suggest to Ruth Davidson that if it comes to holding to account and scrutinising politicians, she's really not coming at this from a position of strength", Sturgeon said.

 

 

 

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Sturgeon hands Ruth Davidson her arse on a plate, glorious.

 

 

 

Ruth Davidson "brutally dismantled" by Nicola Sturgeon in Scottish Parliament

 

"Can I gently suggest to Ruth Davidson that if it comes to holding to account and scrutinising politicians, she's really not coming at this from a position of strength", Sturgeon said.

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully she can show the SPFL and Celtic who's boss as well.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

I must have missed all those ex-colonies clamouring to re-join the British Empire since they won their independence.

 

Scotland,  as part of the UK, were colonial rulers in their day. 

[Justin Z]

Imagine being so devoid of real arguments you'd take a unilateral decision by the most corrupt governing body and league in world football and try to pin that on the Scottish Government.

 

Oh aye, it's definitely the Government's guidelines that say "Premiership good to go even with four clubs showing exposure already, but all these other clubs with none, nah, they can't train." That is definitely not a footballing decision by footballing authorities.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Justin Z

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Imagine being so devoid of real arguments you'd take a unilateral decision by the most corrupt governing body and league in world football and try to pin that on the Scottish Government.

 

Oh aye, it's definitely the Government's guidelines that say "Premiership good to go even with four clubs showing exposure already, but all these other clubs with none, nah, they can't train." That is definitely not a footballing decision by footballing authorities.

 

 

As I said a few days ago, most of the Unionist posters on here are absolutely demented.

 

Proper, proper thick as mince.

[Space Mackerel]

Small thread on Twitter and no football fan blaming the SG.

 

Weird...

 

https://twitter.com/Kheredine2018/status/1293971187392028673?s=20

[Ray Gin]

3 hours ago, weehammy said:

This is just disingenuous drivel as you are well aware that if an independence vote succeeded there wouldn’t be a cat in hell’s chance of that ever being reversed. Just as with the EU referendum, once you’re out - you stay out, whatever platitudes about respecting democracy might be spouted.

As observed in a previous post, the divisive use of the term ‘unionist’ is entirely typical of nationalists trying to define the world as ‘them and us’. I have voted Labour on many occasions but never ‘unionist’.

Years ago, I used to tell American colleagues that perhaps being part of a nation that has existed for a thousand years had led to most Scots being comfortable in their own skins, without a need to sing anthems and wave flags in the manner of citizens of younger countries like the US. Sadly, that theory has been thoroughly disabused by the nats.

 

The yoons have had over 300 years. Only fair that independence gets a decent crack at it to make it work.  

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

As I said a few days ago, most of the Unionist posters on here are absolutely demented.

 

Proper, proper thick as mince.

 

Gotta say I 100% disagree with the tone and content of this.

 

People suspending their rationality and giving in to confirmation bias is really commonplace. It's not a good thing, but it happens a lot, and it doesn't reflect on how smart people are at all.

 

With a couple of notable exceptions, everyone all over the spectrum on Independence has been able to compose clear-headed, literate thoughts about their opinions on the issues. Yes, there is a lot of nonsense spouted, and it ought to be called out—even laughed at if ridiculous enough—but that doesn't necessarily make the person posting it thick or demented.

 

This is a stupid tack being taken, but nobody I've seen take it is stupid, they just need to start being honest with themselves about their motivated thinking.

[Ray Gin]

I'm not sure about thick as mince, I think they are just absolutely entrenched in their views and are too stubborn to budge.

 

Politics is a strange beast now. It's like people have a blind loyalty to certain parties and refuse to change, no matter what they do, no matter what idiot they put in charge, no matter what scandal they are involved in. They'll back them to the hilt.

 

And before anyone pipes in and suggests that this is exactly what I am like, I voted Lib Dem up until they got in bed with the Tories, and was pro-union up until just before the last referendum.

 

 

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

And before anyone pipes in and suggests that this is exactly what I am like, I voted Lib Dem up until they got in bed with the Tories, and was pro-union up until just before the last referendum.

 

 

Changing your mind based on new developments and new evidence? The thought of it!

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

I'm not sure about thick as mince, I think they are just absolutely entrenched in their views and are too stubborn to budge.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, this could easily be said of many on  BOTH sides.

[Ray Gin]

 

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Changing your mind based on new developments and new evidence? The thought of it!

 

Strange but true   

[Space Mackerel]

Pre 2014 referendum, no one really had a conversation about indy, even I was 50/50 keeping an open mind even voting SNP all my life bar once in 97. 

 

The genie is out the bottle, it’s just the way life is now. 

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

To be fair, this could easily be said of many on  BOTH sides.

 

Agreed, that comment applies to politics in general. I don't remember it being as bad as this in the past, although I could be wrong.

 

Before if a politician was involved in some scandal or was completely incompetent their career would be done. Now it doesn't matter, they can get away with just about anything and voters will still back them.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

Strange but true   

 

Haha. I remember being relieved when I heard about the Scottish Independence referendum failing, not really knowing much, and not having ever been there, but having a romanticised idea about the UK. I mean, I was disappointed there were no Scottish footballers on Team GB in 2012, ffs.

 

Mind open to learning. It's a good thing

[Space Mackerel]

And if anyone calls me a "tartan weirdo" I can call them thick as mince. ☺️

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

You are more like a fundamentalist Scottish Nationalist, to me.  

 

You are 100% pure and utter Scottish Nationalist. That is all you life is. 

 

I think you have lost your critical functioning, because you don't need to think anymore. 

 

You are quite like an extreme Avon Lady. 

Don't be too hard on him, I think he's a bit of a wind up merchant and if people stopped rising to his bait he'd be much less offensive.

I don't dislike anyone who is for independence, no one, some are just ****ing ultra rabid and will never see any other argument and seem to think anyone who dares question things as a "union jack waving English arse and a traitor to Scotland".

I'd like to see a more adult debate about

independence, it does break out occasionally but sadly too briefly, thanks to Sapcey and Co.

[Enzo Chiefo]

The old, bearded "End London Rule" brigade are a lost cause, youngsters will go for it because they they'll see it as a fad and most won't understand the economics or the implications. The dependency culture, supported through several generations by endless free benefits, they're on board and unlikely to be converted. But the normal, often intelligent, working people with financial responsibilities,  that allow identity politics to trump economics and logic and think Scottish independence is a good idea. In my book, it's off the scale bizzare.

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'In my book, it's off the scale bizzare.' is almost exactly what I think of our shared circumstance. 

Nicola Sturgeon can't keep everything in the air forever. When the fantasy politics falls on the ground, that is when the judgement will take place. 

 

I fear it may be too late when the penny drops.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'In my book, it's off the scale bizzare.' is almost exactly what I think of our shared circumstance. 

Nicola Sturgeon can't keep everything in the air forever. When the fantasy politics falls on the ground, that is when the judgement will take place. 

 

It will certainly be interesting when Salmond comes thundering back in the next couple of weeks. Sturgeon may well be toast. You're right though, she's been allowed to act as both a govt and an opposition and "keep everything in the air". In a normal country with normal politics,  Swinney certainly would have been a goner today. I would call her bluff, offer her full fiscal autonomy as a trial for a couple of years and see how that goes😎

Edited August 13, 2020 by Enzo Chiefo

[Enzo Chiefo]

12 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence ended in 2014. 

Lets move forwards. 

👍

[jack D and coke]

8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

You are more like a fundamentalist Scottish Nationalist, to me.  

 

You are 100% pure and utter Scottish Nationalist. That is all you life is. 

 

I think you have lost your critical functioning, because you don't need to think anymore. 

 

You are quite like an extreme Avon Lady. 

If you don’t mind me saying you are very close to being an opposite of spacey. You’re obsessed with the snp too. You type things out as fact when they’re nothing of the sort too.
You don’t like the Snp or the idea of an indy Scotland.... we get it man. 

[manaliveits105]

Nicky is teetering after the care home and PPE/test and trace debacles she has had to u turn on exam results as couldn’t risk losing the 16 and 17 year olds votes The SG hasn’t insisted on Aberdeen or Ceptic being punished as she couldn’t risk losing the Celtic ex labour vote - everything they do is with Indy ref in mind - they are a no policy joke of a government

with poor standard of mps and msps 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by manaliveits105

[Unknown user]

Well at least you're convincing yourselves chaps!

 

[Space Mackerel]

On 22/02/2020 at 00:03, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

 

I'm more thinking that you started a thread and couldn't have been more wrong

[Space Mackerel]

D.Ross seems a tad confused.

 

[Cade]

Cannae feckin wait for the upcoming election.

 

[OTT]

Certainly looks like the SNP are going to clean up in the 2021 elections. 

 

I don't know how I feel about that. On the plus side, an overwhelming majority makes another referendum extremely hard for Johnson to refuse. He still could in theory, but I'm not sure that would be good for him. Telling people they can't have something rarely has the desired affect. 

 

I don't just want independence because its something I fundamentally believe in, I want it because there is a serious dearth in quality of candidates outside of the SNP. Richard Leonard, Willie Rennie, Douglas Ross are all terrible politicians and not leadership material, be that party, country or even bloody bowling club.. Ross is maybe the only one making a passable effort at Politics but I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, the rest are god awful. Assuming post Independence would spell the end of the SNP, we'd likely see them repopulate a lot of the other parties. Which would be good as it would drown out a lot of moon howlers and force their agenda's back to the fringe where they belong. We need to move on from the constitutional debate, and I don't see that happening until independence is achieved. With polls showing a sustained majority now, I think the writing is very much on the wall for the union. I can't see it outlasting my life time, I'm 25.  Suspect I'll probably still have hair too  

 

The future is looking so bleak. We've got another parliament terms worth of Johnson and his ridiculous government to sit through, that is unless they decide to have another election midway through to extend their term even further.. we're heading into a recession, we'll be out of the EU facing the mercy of an American trade deal who know they have us face down over a barrel with nowhere to go. Anyone else looking forward to Chlorinated chicken? 

 

The 2014 result will be fresh in the mind still of Sturgeon, Blackford etc. so I'm hopeful they'll have a clear idea of the key issues they need to tackle and win decisively on. The UK can't throw any ambiguity on joining the EU anymore, which really leaves currency and economic arguments which have hopefully been studied and can be taken apart and broke down issue by issue. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by OTT

[BudgeUp]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Yeah, I can see the truth in what you say there. 

 

I am so tired of talking about this issue of Scottish Independence. There is so much more to life.

So why do you repeatedly talk about it? 

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Yeah, I can see the truth in what you say there. 

 

I am so tired of talking about this issue of Scottish Independence. There is so much more to life.

There is mate. Move on. 
I’ll admit to getting far too wound up in the past, I’m over it. If it happens it happens and it won’t be the end of the world but by the same token if another vote happens and it’s a No again then fair enough. 
 

Edited August 14, 2020 by jack D and coke

[BudgeUp]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Because it seems like, and feels like an injustice, that the people of Scotland have become mired in this impasse.

 

There are so many more useful things we ought to be discussing together. There is a lot of work ahead of us.   

It only seems like an injustice because you can't see the point of view. 

 

Like it or not politics in this country now fall into nationalist v unionist. 

 

The fact that Sturgeon's SNP has did well has caused some from the latter to go to the former. 

 

The sooner we realise that the work that needs done can only be done once we release ourselves from the shackles of said politics. 

 

The only way that can happen is independence. Unfortunately Scotland is at an impasse until that happens. 

 

Constitutional politics now trumps education and healthcare, that's not going to go away due to how emotive it is. 

[Realzaragoza]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There is mate. Move on. 
I’ll admit to getting far too wound up in the past, I’m over it. If it happens it happens and it won’t be the end of the world but by the same token if another vote happens and it’s a No again then fair enough. 
 

 

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There is mate. Move on. 
I’ll admit to getting far too wound up in the past, I’m over it. If it happens it happens and it won’t be the end of the world but by the same token if another vote happens and it’s a No again then fair enough. 
 

Aye right - indyref 3 ?

 

 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Realzaragoza said:

 

Aye right - indyref 3 ?

 

 

When was indyref 2?

[BudgeUp]

9 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Scottish Independence is a myth.

It is false, it is ridiculous and petty and selfish, and a solution to a problem we don't have.

It is mean and intolerant and disrespectful, and lazy and it rewards failure.

It has no answers to the reality in front of us, apart from spin and error.

 

I don't trust it, I don't like it and it has jammed up democracy, and divided people in Scotland, needlesly. All my opinion.

 

For some it's the most important thing there is. 

 

That's their opinion. 

 

With people like that, and people like you there is no end in sight until independence happens. 

 

The games rigged due to the question only going away with 1 outcome. 

 

Enjoy the ride, come to terms with it. Its probably going to happen and your quality of life probably won't change.