The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Unknown user]

 

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The one thing I notice about SE16 is the amount of mild ire in his posts about Scotland. Even after he’s been up visiting there’s a feeling he’s having a dig all the time in the posts. 
A sort of typical Scot living down saaf. Looks down his nose now at all us daft jocks wanting to run our own affairs. The Labour Party absolutely rips out him. Fuming that Scotland has finally seen through them and wants nothing to do with them anymore. 
I might be wrong though. 

Odd chap. Millwall.

[Space Mackerel]

10 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Yes it is,at least to join the EERM. You must also make a commitment to join the Euro when you meet the criteria. According to the SG, and more importantly JKB posters, Scotland already meets those criteria so into the Euro Scotland will go. Why are you all struggling so much with this, in fact why would you resist it? Its as if the 28 years since Maastricht just passed you by. 

 

How come the UK never used the Euro then?

 

They were in for years and years and years and years and years?

 

How do you explain that?

[Space Mackerel]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The one thing I notice about SE16 is the amount of mild ire in his posts about Scotland. Even after he’s been up visiting there’s a feeling he’s having a dig all the time in the posts. 
A sort of typical Scot living down saaf. Looks down his nose now at all us daft jocks wanting to run our own affairs. The Labour Party absolutely rips out him. Fuming that Scotland has finally seen through them and wants nothing to do with them anymore. 
I might be wrong though. 

 

Vive la France!

 

https://twitter.com/Superfind/status/1290568289983307777?s=20

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Vive la France!

 

https://twitter.com/Superfind/status/1290568289983307777?s=20

You know I was pro brexit for a while pal and I’ll admit over time that I’ve completely changed my tune. I won’t get over excited by the french and the auld alliance thing from centuries ago it’s England i want to be our best friends if it ever happens. 
By the same token if Scotland votes it down again then we need to let it go. 

[jake]

10 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Borrowing is not restricted to 3% of GDP or else many countries would now have to leave. This is an aspiration. As i understand it borrowing less than 3% of GDP was a requirement for joining the Euro. At the time of entry Germany and Greece did not meet the criteria but were allowed to join anyway. Denmark did meet the criteria but chose not to join. The EU clearly tried to expand its currency as widely as possible but there was no absolute compulsion. 

    The notion that Scotland has a debt of around 9% of GDP is fanciful. All areas of the UK outside London and the SE show similar and greater deficits according to this form of measurement. Money is sucked into London from everywhere else in the UK something that could be countered in an Indy Scotland. Around 40% of our so called deficit goes to pay interest on our ever spiralling debt. The UK government have manipulated the exchange rate for the pound many times to benefit the city of London and at the expense of the other countries and regions. They have often done so at the behest of vested and often criminal interests. The idea that joining the Euro uniquely leaves us open to this form of abuse is naive.  Quite the opposite IMO.

Thanks.

I am pro brexit for many reasons.

And if we ever get independence I will argue against rejoining the EU.

It's important that these questions are fully understood.

I thought the yes campaign got caught out last time .

I would like a right of centre argument to made for independence and there are imo some really good ones.

Not sure that's palatable for the Scottish voter though.

 

[jake]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

You know I was pro brexit for a while pal and I’ll admit over time that I’ve completely changed my tune. I won’t get over excited by the french and the auld alliance thing from centuries ago it’s England i want to be our best friends if it ever happens. 
By the same token if Scotland votes it down again then we need to let it go. 

I forgot that you were .

I'm sure you and I had a wee celebration on here at the time.

What's changed your mind and what were your reasons for voting brexit?

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, jake said:

I forgot that you were .

I'm sure you and I had a wee celebration on here at the time.

What's changed your mind and what were your reasons for voting brexit?

Hmm if you can show me where I celebrated then fair enough don’t think so bud. 
I didn’t actually vote brexit. By the time it came about I was too mixed up so I didn’t vote at all. The more I’ve read the more I can’t believe I was conned into believing leave was right.
It’s not perfect by any means but being outside it is crazy imo. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

You know I was pro brexit for a while pal and I’ll admit over time that I’ve completely changed my tune. I won’t get over excited by the french and the auld alliance thing from centuries ago it’s England i want to be our best friends if it ever happens. 
By the same token if Scotland votes it down again then we need to let it go. 

Its not going to be a No vote next time pal. The Union is well over. 
And anyone who gets suckered in with any any of their shite really needs their head examined. 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Its not going to be a No vote next time pal. The Union is well over. 
And anyone who gets suckered in with any any of their shite really needs their head examined. 

Well we’ll see. I don’t think it’s a given. No danger. 

[ri Alban]

21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well we’ll see. I don’t think it’s a given. No danger. 

England will vote for independence first, if we don't. So it'll happen one way or another. 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

England will vote for independence first, if we don't. So it'll happen one way or another. 

The way things are going aye I’ll agree. Scotland will get Indy when England decides. I’ve long thought that. We don’t have the bollocks mate. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, jake said:

Thanks.

I am pro brexit for many reasons.

And if we ever get independence I will argue against rejoining the EU.

It's important that these questions are fully understood.

I thought the yes campaign got caught out last time .

I would like a right of centre argument to made for independence and there are imo some really good ones.

Not sure that's palatable for the Scottish voter though.

 

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

I typed out a reply to this and I’ve deleted it. Bit drunk....
Better Together? That’s what that looks like man. It doesn’t wash anymore. 

[ri Alban]

18 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The way things are going aye I’ll agree. Scotland will get Indy when England decides. I’ve long thought that. We don’t have the bollocks mate. 

I think it has now gone past the point of no return for the Union. When Scotland gets Indyref 2 it'll be a landslide. But I think Boris will be advised to hold an indyref for England first, so he can make it look like he won English Independence, instead of losing the Union.

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

Just absolute garbage! Grow up! 

[jake]

45 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

Some of what you say is correct.

Why would that stop us governing ourselves and why should it.

The barnet formula is like some kind of benefit trap the way it's always quoted.

It's late but the economic case for independence imo outweighs the argument for remaining.

[jake]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hmm if you can show me where I celebrated then fair enough don’t think so bud. 
I didn’t actually vote brexit. By the time it came about I was too mixed up so I didn’t vote at all. The more I’ve read the more I can’t believe I was conned into believing leave was right.
It’s not perfect by any means but being outside it is crazy imo. 

Sorry my mistake.

[OTT]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5903828/snp-mp-alyn-smith-calls-black-disabled-members-axed-party-independence/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=scottishsuntwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1596832113

 

Thought this was going to be a shocking read. Not even close. He's basically just highlighted that the NEC are focusing too much on issues which aren't fundamentally relevant to the goal of achieving Independence. Which is true. Its turning into a bit of a SJW circle jerk. Think neurotic social studies Edinburgh Uni students, now put them all in a room together and let them decide how the party which is supposed to be running the country is governed. Its not right. Its common sense tbh. Independence is achieved by convincing the majority of the population that self governance is the best way forward for our country. Pursuing controversial (IMO un-electable) policies will only hinder that goal. Focus should be entirely on strengthening the economy and addressing questions people have like Currency or fixing this SQA exam **** up. 

 

The SNP's goal whether you love them or hate them is to achieve independence. It seems clear to me that the above types have managed to hijack the NEC to push their personal agendas. Smith refers to it as an 'experiment gone wrong', which appears to be the case. Right now, despite a Boris Johnson government on the cusp of handing us Independence on a silver ****ing plate, these narcissistic idiots seem hell bent on causing the SNP to implode from within. 

 

Joanna Cherry for example has criticised and opposed the GRA because of concerns around womens rights being eroded. So they decided to change the rules on running for a Holyrood seat so that you essentially must resign the Westminster seat to take up the Holyrood seat (the by-election must run on the same day ensuring you need to step down). The impact is obviously her no longer standing for the seat which is being quoted as the future leader of the parties seat. Now Smith has criticised the GRA privately and its been mysteriously leaked? It absolutely stinks and it reeks of lunatics running the asylum to me.

 

I'm pretty frustrated because I don't feel much like voting SNP with all this going on, these types of people just bloody annoy me to be perfectly honest. One of them describes her job as 'sensitivity reader'. Thats not a job, thats just monetising  being easily offended. I'm never voting Greens, and SSP I'd rather boil my heid. All of the main parties (Labour, Lib Dems and Tories) being so diametrically opposed to Independence kind of mean I can't vote for them either. 

 

Just as an aside, I notice Ian Murray is quoted in the article. I actually don't mind Murray, good Jambo that is doing what he believes in but he's fast turning into an SNP-bad rentaquote. Rather than pouncing on every single gotcha that might appear, he would be better served on promoting Labour candidates and trying to push a more positive agenda. 

 

[kingsknowe_jambo]

2 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Young people marching in Freedom Square, Glasgow, calling for Nicola Sturgeon to resign. 

Did you have that on your bingo cards.

 

 

Posting this and then the chat about George Galloway, step away from the sauce my man 😂

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

Off yer knees hoose jock. Maybe one day you'll want yer currency, language sovereignty back. And a big wall across this land mass. 

Funny how you never mention how Scotland buy more from rUK than they buy from us. Aw well, more to spend on our EU friends. The biggest market in the world. The UK can feck off and treacherous Unionists can feck off anaw. 

[Brighton Jambo]

Education will be the next battleground.  It’s clear that the new Opposition parties message will be to pivot to education at every turn.  
 

Even before the recent COVID exam situation there were questions being raised about education standards in Scotland and given NS asked to be “Judged on her education record” this is an avenue I expect opposition parties to go after big time.  
 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the SNP argue for separation from the UK, the biggest and most important market for Scotland, a Union in which we share a land mass, a common currency and language and so many societal, historical and familial ties WHILE simultaneously arguing to join a far away continent in which we have a far smaller portion of trade and very little in common, then they will get hammered yet again. And that's before we even talk about the Barnett formula and the £2k per head extra funding that would not be available on separation. Absolute madness on stilts and anyone falling for the milk and honey, tartan spin machine needs their head examined. 

This with bells on 

[manaliveits105]

5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Young people marching in Freedom Square, Glasgow, calling for Nicola Sturgeon to resign. 

Did you have that on your bingo cards.

 

 

This they are the future and can see through the Brigadoon brigade

[manaliveits105]

4 hours ago, OTT said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5903828/snp-mp-alyn-smith-calls-black-disabled-members-axed-party-independence/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=scottishsuntwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1596832113

 

Thought this was going to be a shocking read. Not even close. He's basically just highlighted that the NEC are focusing too much on issues which aren't fundamentally relevant to the goal of achieving Independence. Which is true. Its turning into a bit of a SJW circle jerk. Think neurotic social studies Edinburgh Uni students, now put them all in a room together and let them decide how the party which is supposed to be running the country is governed. Its not right. Its common sense tbh. Independence is achieved by convincing the majority of the population that self governance is the best way forward for our country. Pursuing controversial (IMO un-electable) policies will only hinder that goal. Focus should be entirely on strengthening the economy and addressing questions people have like Currency or fixing this SQA exam **** up. 

 

The SNP's goal whether you love them or hate them is to achieve independence. It seems clear to me that the above types have managed to hijack the NEC to push their personal agendas. Smith refers to it as an 'experiment gone wrong', which appears to be the case. Right now, despite a Boris Johnson government on the cusp of handing us Independence on a silver ****ing plate, these narcissistic idiots seem hell bent on causing the SNP to implode from within. 

 

Joanna Cherry for example has criticised and opposed the GRA because of concerns around womens rights being eroded. So they decided to change the rules on running for a Holyrood seat so that you essentially must resign the Westminster seat to take up the Holyrood seat (the by-election must run on the same day ensuring you need to step down). The impact is obviously her no longer standing for the seat which is being quoted as the future leader of the parties seat. Now Smith has criticised the GRA privately and its been mysteriously leaked? It absolutely stinks and it reeks of lunatics running the asylum 

 

This 

[Brighton Jambo]

Rumour from a former colleague who is now a SPAD  has it that Dominic Cummings has been instructed to deal with the Scottish independence issue.  
 

Like almost every one I can’t stand the odious little weasel but my goodness his success rate is outstanding.  I am reassured by this news not least because I suspect Indy voters will instantly dismiss is influence in Scotland and overlook his impact.

 

if he can take a leave vote of, iirc, circa 20% and turn that into victory he sure as heck can get the opinion polls that have almost universally been in favour of the union until very recently going back the right way.  
 

replacing Jackson Carlaw was obviously part of this change in strategy also.  

[Brighton Jambo]

12 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

This 

In a leaked email, he wrote: “Equalities are close to my heart but not as close as independence.

 

can you imagine if a Tory MP said this about Brexit.  Absolute outrage.

 

THe SNP usually run such a tight ship I don’t know what’s happening to them right now, so many bad headlines.  

[SE16 3LN]

12 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

How come the UK never used the Euro then?

 

They were in for years and years and years and years and years?

 

How do you explain that?

FFS, are you really that thick?

[SE16 3LN]

19 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The one thing I notice about SE16 is the amount of mild ire in his posts about Scotland. Even after he’s been up visiting there’s a feeling he’s having a dig all the time in the posts. 
A sort of typical Scot living down saaf. Looks down his nose now at all us daft jocks wanting to run our own affairs. The Labour Party absolutely rips out him. Fuming that Scotland has finally seen through them and wants nothing to do with them anymore. 
I might be wrong though. 

As usual, you are wrong.

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Education will be the next battleground.  It’s clear that the new Opposition parties message will be to pivot to education at every turn.  
 

Even before the recent COVID exam situation there were questions being raised about education standards in Scotland and given NS asked to be “Judged on her education record” this is an avenue I expect opposition parties to go after big time.  
 

 

So you must be glad that pass rates are up this year, well done the SG

[jack D and coke]

40 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

As usual, you are wrong.

 

Add arrogant to your posting style guvnor. 

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

FFS, are you really that thick?

Answer his question then. 

[luckydug]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Young people marching in Freedom Square, Glasgow, calling for Nicola Sturgeon to resign. 

Did you have that on your bingo cards.

 

 

You do realise that the same system is being used in England to mark exam papers. 

The difference being that marks are being reduced by 40% in England instead of 25% in Scotland. 

In addition there is no right of appeal in England where there is in Scotland. 

The appeals process will sort this out. 

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You do realise that the same system is being used in England to mark exam papers. 

The difference being that marks are being reduced by 40% in England instead of 25% in Scotland. 

In addition there is no right of appeal in England where there is in Scotland. 

The appeals process will sort this out. 

You can appeal in England.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You do realise that the same system is being used in England to mark exam papers. 

The difference being that marks are being reduced by 40% in England instead of 25% in Scotland. 

In addition there is no right of appeal in England where there is in Scotland. 

The appeals process will sort this out. 

You can also sit an exam in England if you want

[SE16 3LN]

55 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Answer his question then. 

 They got an opt out at Maastricht, and if you don't know that why the **** are you even in the debate.

Edited August 8, 2020 by SE16 3LN

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

 

Add arrogant to your posting style guvnor. 

You come on here, make up a story about my personal life and then call me arrogant 😀

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

You come on here, make up a story about my personal life and then call me arrogant 😀

You have an arrogant posting style guv. That’s not made up. 

[SE16 3LN]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

You have an arrogant posting style guv. That’s not made up. 

If I don't agree with what the peasants are saying I say so.

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, jake said:

Some of what you say is correct.

Why would that stop us governing ourselves and why should it.

The barnet formula is like some kind of benefit trap the way it's always quoted.

It's late but the economic case for independence imo outweighs the argument for remaining.

The biggest question I have about this issue is ..why?  I take your point about governing ourselves but is that really important to most people? So much of the decision making is intertwined...immigration, defence etc. If Scotland went off in their own direction, it would inevitably lead to a border. That would be catastrophic for trade, travel etc. We already have power over the most important portfolios, health, education, policing.  Is there any evidence whatsoever that the performance in these areas is such that transferring more powers would improve our lot? Not by a long shot imo. 

A hard core of the "end London rule" fanatics would live in a cave just to get away from England but for the majority with jobs, mortgages, families ;would tearing us out our biggest market, erecting a border and losing the Barnett formula really be a price worth paying just to say "we make our own decisions"???  A third of voters in Scotland, more than 1 in 3, could not even be ersed voting in the EU referendum,  the biggest single issue in the last 40 odd years. That suggests to me that hige swathes of people don't care, and some don't even know, who governs us.

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 They got an opt out at Maastricht, and if you don't know that why the **** are you even in the debate.

Chill out. The debate is for everyone not just those who are aware of historic agreements. 

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Chill out. The debate is for everyone not just those who are aware of historic agreements. 

The poster concerned has told me to shut up, called me stupid and other choice names, and then I find out he doesn't actually have any knowledge of the subject. I'll bite back if I want.

[Brighton Jambo]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

So you must be glad that pass rates are up this year, well done the SG

If you think Scottish government performance on education over the past 10 years then I draw two conclusions:

 

1.  You are in the camp whereby you will defend Scottish government performance no matter what.  

2.  You actually believe what you have just typed meaning you simply don’t understand the educational issues in Scotland and topic at large.  
 

In the here and now children are literally protesting in the streets and the opposition parties are uniting in motion of no confidence in the education secretary and your contribution to the debate is “well done the Scottish government”?  

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

If you think Scottish government performance on education over the past 10 years then I draw two conclusions:

 

1.  You are in the camp whereby you will defend Scottish government performance no matter what.  

2.  You actually believe what you have just typed meaning you simply don’t understand the educational issues in Scotland and topic at large.  
 

In the here and now children are literally protesting in the streets and the opposition parties are uniting in motion of no confidence in the education secretary and your contribution to the debate is “well done the Scottish government”?  

If the Scottish government were to turn around and reverse all the moderated marks then that would result in a huge Improvement in educational attainment which every party would no doubt applaud.  🤔

[GinRummy]

24 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The poster concerned has told me to shut up, called me stupid and other choice names, and then I find out he doesn't actually have any knowledge of the subject. I'll bite back if I want.

Aye he’s murder on this thread. Be a better thread without all the nasty comments both ways but bash on. 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

If the Scottish government were to turn around and reverse all the moderated marks then that would result in a huge Improvement in educational attainment which every party would no doubt applaud.  🤔

That would also be a very bad idea as you know.  A nuanced solution whereby kids futures aren’t decided by the affluence of the area they live in is the answer.  Punishing those in worse off areas and direct expense of those in the wealthiest absolute is not.  Do I have the solution?  No, but then why would I am not the education secretary.  
 

and as for attainment levels, they have gone up this year and that is a positive and I’m not trying to deny otherwise.  But Scotland’s  overall performance in relation to education when compared to global benchmarks has definitely not improved over the last 10 years and had clearly fallen in maths and science.  It is just about level in relation to reading.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-50642855

 

I would also throw in the views of the teaching profession as to things like testing for primary school children.  It’s not positive to say the least especially for a party that explicitly asked to be judged on their record on education. 
 

 

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Aye he’s murder on this thread. Be a better thread without all the nasty comments both ways but bash on. 

👍 It was actually getting good and respectful a couple of days ago until it fell off a cliff to its usual level of childish insults, mud slinging (in both directions) and stupid memes. 

[OTT]

7 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Rumour from a former colleague who is now a SPAD  has it that Dominic Cummings has been instructed to deal with the Scottish independence issue.  
 

Like almost every one I can’t stand the odious little weasel but my goodness his success rate is outstanding.  I am reassured by this news not least because I suspect Indy voters will instantly dismiss is influence in Scotland and overlook his impact.

 

if he can take a leave vote of, iirc, circa 20% and turn that into victory he sure as heck can get the opinion polls that have almost universally been in favour of the union until very recently going back the right way.  
 

replacing Jackson Carlaw was obviously part of this change in strategy also.  

 

I'm really not sure if Cummings is any sort of saviour for the Union. Lets not forget, Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, and we're now expected to follow the guy responsible for that?  I think in 2014 a lot of promises were made about Scotlands place in the Union (Union of equals, family of nations etc.) and much of that has over time been proven to be nonsense. So credibility wise, I think any sort of Better Together 2.0 are on the back foot. Cummings is also a liar, as is Johnson. So again, any sensible voter should be asking themselves can I trust these guys? 

 

I'm not for a minute saying that the SNP/ YES 2.0 are going to be coming out with nothing but the truth, but certainly from a track record aspect, trusting liars seems foolish. I can say with certainty that any promises made by Cummings campaign to keep us in the Union will be a pack of lies. 

 

Agree with Carlaw though. Seems the tories went from the political equivalent of a BMW to a 1990s Fiat Punto with Davidson to Carlaw. Could be to try and put a 'fresh young face' on the tories. Ross seems about as charismatic as a wet turd and still refuses to quit his refereeing job. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by OTT

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

 They got an opt out at Maastricht, and if you don't know that why the **** are you even in the debate.

Speaking of not knowing what you're talking about, which countries are in the EERM and waiting to join the EU again?

[Brighton Jambo]

41 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'm really not sure if Cummings is any sort of saviour for the Union. Lets not forget, Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, and we're now expected to follow the guy responsible for that?  I think in 2014 a lot of promises were made about Scotlands place in the Union (Union of equals, family of nations etc.) and much of that has over time been proven to be nonsense. So credibility wise, I think any sort of Better Together 2.0 are on the back foot. Cummings is also a liar, as is Johnson. So again, any sensible voter should be asking themselves can I trust these guys? 

 

I'm not for a minute saying that the SNP/ YES 2.0 are going to be coming out with nothing but the truth, but certainly from a track record aspect, trusting liars seems foolish. I can say with certainty that any promises made by Cummings campaign to keep us in the Union will be a pack of lies. 

 

Agree with Carlaw though. Seems the tories went from the political equivalent of a BMW to a 1990s Fiat Punto with Davidson to Carlaw. Could be to try and put a 'fresh young face' on the tories. Ross seems about as charismatic as a wet turd and still refuses to quit his refereeing job. 

I agree that it will be a pack of lies but that’s what he’s good at, manipulating the main strain media and online to plant the messages needed to win elections and referendums.  It will be misinformation, misdirection, fear inducing to the extreme but the evidence is it works and is hugely effective at securing the outcome he is striving for.  And it’s not like he will be up here meeting voters all this will be done behind the scenes from Tory HQ.  I am not advocating him a man in any sense but he is effective at what he does.  

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

I'm really not sure if Cummings is any sort of saviour for the Union. Lets not forget, Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, and we're now expected to follow the guy responsible for that?  I think in 2014 a lot of promises were made about Scotlands place in the Union (Union of equals, family of nations etc.) and much of that has over time been proven to be nonsense. So credibility wise, I think any sort of Better Together 2.0 are on the back foot. Cummings is also a liar, as is Johnson. So again, any sensible voter should be asking themselves can I trust these guys? 

 

I'm not for a minute saying that the SNP/ YES 2.0 are going to be coming out with nothing but the truth, but certainly from a track record aspect, trusting liars seems foolish. I can say with certainty that any promises made by Cummings campaign to keep us in the Union will be a pack of lies. 

 

Agree with Carlaw though. Seems the tories went from the political equivalent of a BMW to a 1990s Fiat Punto with Davidson to Carlaw. Could be to try and put a 'fresh young face' on the tories. Ross seems about as charismatic as a wet turd and still refuses to quit his refereeing job. 

 

So is Sturgeon. Called out by the ONS just this week.