The rise and fall of The SNP.

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

That would also be a very bad idea as you know.  A nuanced solution whereby kids futures aren’t decided by the affluence of the area they live in is the answer.  Punishing those in worse off areas and direct expense of those in the wealthiest absolute is not.  Do I have the solution?  No, but then why would I am not the education secretary.  
 

and as for attainment levels, they have gone up this year and that is a positive and I’m not trying to deny otherwise.  But Scotland’s  overall performance in relation to education when compared to global benchmarks has definitely not improved over the last 10 years and had clearly fallen in maths and science.  It is just about level in relation to reading.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-50642855

 

I would also throw in the views of the teaching profession as to things like testing for primary school children.  It’s not positive to say the least especially for a party that explicitly asked to be judged on their record on education. 
 

 

 

  Inevitably you have no evidence to support your view that "kids futures" are decided by the SG or the SQA on the basis of how affluent their residential area is. Of course children's futures are significantly influenced by their affluence but it is the educational system that is trying its best to counter that effect and there is evidence to support the view that the current government has presided over a system that has improved exam performance and life chances for the least affluent 20%.

 

   You cannot substantiate your ludicrous claim that those in "worse off" areas are being "punished" either.I have no idea why you suggest that they are being punished at the "direct expense" of those in the "wealthiest". This is your sentence "Punishing those in worse off areas and direct expense of those in the wealthiest absolute is not". Perhaps you could tell us what you do mean.

 

   You are unable to suggest alternatives to the current system but suggest a "nuanced" solution but you have ignored the next part of the system i.e.appeals and that's where a great deal of the nuance comes in.

 

  I don't normally pick people up on spelling and grammar, mine is not the best but i do try to stick by the basics. You don't even start paragraphs with capitals and have started one with a conjunction. Astonishing in someone who wishes to berate the standard of education in Scotland.

 

   You talk of Scotland dropping back on "global benchmarks". I assume you are referring to the widely publicised Pisa scores. These are not benchmarks because they are not carried out to globally agreed standards and they have often been criticised for poor methodology and small sample size.

 

   Scotland introduced Curriculum for Excellence a few years ago which has departed from the Michael Gove type traditional learning model. Scottish pupils learn a wider curriculum than that looked at by Pisa and are deliberately not hot-housed as many high scoring countries are. Health and Wellbeing play a major part in our curriculum for understandable reasons IMO. I'm not sure how Pisa or anybody else can measure that against a global benchmark. The idea behind CforE is that pupils are more in control of their own learning and that includes the form it takes and the speed it progresses. There are no plausible international benchmarks to measure this but you might know better.

    As for testing, you cannot measure progress without assessment and you cannot assess without tests according to some, particularly Tories. When the government tried to introduce the very gentlest of testing regimes thus avoiding the problems in England the Tories changed their tune. They demanded it when we didn't have it and when we tried to introduce it they opposed it because they didn't see the value in it. Teachers understandably don't want testing. They prefer their own judgement and believe their judgement is more nuanced than a test result and can do without the extra work.

 

[Brighton Jambo]

43 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So is Sturgeon. Called out by the ONS just this week. 

Absolutely 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/30/nicola-sturgeon-statistics-chief-rebukes-sturgeon-claim-covid-19-five-times-lower-in-scotland-than-england

 

Also it looks like the she could be found to have breached the ministerial code over dates cited in relation to the Alex Salmond affair.
 

That would be two formal documented examples of her lying.  

 

Yet it’s the rest of the politicians that are liars that can’t be trusted.  

[Brighton Jambo]

23 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

  Inevitably you have no evidence to support your view that "kids futures" are decided by the SG or the SQA on the basis of how affluent their residential area is. Of course children's futures are significantly influenced by their affluence but it is the educational system that is trying its best to counter that effect and there is evidence to support the view that the current government has presided over a system that has improved exam performance and life chances for the least affluent 20%.

 

   You cannot substantiate your ludicrous claim that those in "worse off" areas are being "punished" either.I have no idea why you suggest that they are being punished at the "direct expense" of those in the "wealthiest". This is your sentence "Punishing those in worse off areas and direct expense of those in the wealthiest absolute is not". Perhaps you could tell us what you do mean.

 

   You are unable to suggest alternatives to the current system but suggest a "nuanced" solution but you have ignored the next part of the system i.e.appeals and that's where a great deal of the nuance comes in.

 

  I don't normally pick people up on spelling and grammar, mine is not the best but i do try to stick by the basics. You don't even start paragraphs with capitals and have started one with a conjunction. Astonishing in someone who wishes to berate the standard of education in Scotland.

 

   You talk of Scotland dropping back on "global benchmarks". I assume you are referring to the widely publicised Pisa scores. These are not benchmarks because they are not carried out to globally agreed standards and they have often been criticised for poor methodology and small sample size.

 

   Scotland introduced Curriculum for Excellence a few years ago which has departed from the Michael Gove type traditional learning model. Scottish pupils learn a wider curriculum than that looked at by Pisa and are deliberately not hot-housed as many high scoring countries are. Health and Wellbeing play a major part in our curriculum for understandable reasons IMO. I'm not sure how Pisa or anybody else can measure that against a global benchmark. The idea behind CforE is that pupils are more in control of their own learning and that includes the form it takes and the speed it progresses. There are no plausible international benchmarks to measure this but you might know better.

    As for testing, you cannot measure progress without assessment and you cannot assess without tests according to some, particularly Tories. When the government tried to introduce the very gentlest of testing regimes thus avoiding the problems in England the Tories changed their tune. They demanded it when we didn't have it and when we tried to introduce it they opposed it because they didn't see the value in it. Teachers understandably don't want testing. They prefer their own judgement and believe their judgement is more nuanced than a test result and can do without the extra work.

 

Out of courtesy I wanted to let you know I stuck you on ignore weeks ago.  I don’t do it often but I find your posts massively overlong and, to be blunt, incoherent, contradictory and deliberately argumentative.  
 

Like everyone I am sure you are busy so wanted to let you know so you aren’t wasting time writing these lengthy responses to my posts as I won’t read them.  
 

No need to respond as I won’t read it anyway.  

Edited August 8, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

15 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Out of courtesy I wanted to let you know I stuck you on ignore weeks ago.  I don’t do it often but I find your posts massively overlong and, to be blunt, incoherent, contradictory and deliberately argumentative.  
 

Like everyone I am sure you are busy so wanted to let you know so you aren’t wasting time writing these lengthy responses to my posts as I won’t read them.  
 

No need to respond as I won’t read it anyway.  

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

21 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Absolutely 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/30/nicola-sturgeon-statistics-chief-rebukes-sturgeon-claim-covid-19-five-times-lower-in-scotland-than-england

 

Also it looks like the she could be found to have breached the ministerial code over dates cited in relation to the Alex Salmond affair.
 

That would be two formal documented examples of her lying.  

 

Yet it’s the rest of the politicians that are liars that can’t be trusted.  

UK statistics chief having a go, you don't say. Has she handled this better and are there less cases and deaths in Scotland?

[Brighton Jambo]

16 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

UK statistics chief having a go, you don't say. Has she handled this better and are there less cases and deaths in Scotland?

Than where?  I assume you mean of other countries of comparable size in which case no, her governments performance is absolutely shambolic.  

Edited August 8, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[coconut doug]

38 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Out of courtesy I wanted to let you know I stuck you on ignore weeks ago.  I don’t do it often but I find your posts massively overlong and, to be blunt, incoherent, contradictory and deliberately argumentative.  
 

Like everyone I am sure you are busy so wanted to let you know so you aren’t wasting time writing these lengthy responses to my posts as I won’t read them.  
 

No need to respond as I won’t read it anyway.  

 

Seems your ignore function is not working. Did you imagine that my responses were exclusively for you?  

[Roxy Hearts]

23 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Than where?  I assume you mean of other countries of comparable size in which case no, her governments performance is absolutely shambolic.  

England. We originally tried to step follow the UK govt but realised it was shambolic and then chose to do things differently with better results. I know we shouldn't try to make political capital out this dreadful situation but I don't want UK govt making decisions for Scotland. All these countries are independent and make their own decisions. 

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

England. We originally tried to step follow the UK govt but realised it was shambolic and then chose to do things differently with better results. I know we shouldn't try to make political capital out this dreadful situation but I don't want UK govt making decisions for Scotland. All these countries are independent and make their own decisions. 

Ah sorry my mistake! 

[Enzo Chiefo]

26 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Than where?  I assume you mean of other countries of comparable size in which case no, her governments performance is absolutely shambolic.  

Quite a stark comparison Brighton , and certainly more relevant than the "compare to your nearest neighbour" measure. You couldn't get a cigarette paper between the outcomes of Scotland & England. Both have had  clear failures such as PPE, lack of testing, preparedness, the Dom Cummings scandal, Calderwood up here , Cheltenham, failing to secure our borders earlier, the Nike conference secrecy etc. The list goes on. 

[Roxy Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Quite a stark comparison Brighton , and certainly more relevant than the "compare to your nearest neighbour" measure. You couldn't get a cigarette paper between the outcomes of Scotland & England. Both have had  clear failures such as PPE, lack of testing, preparedness, the Dom Cummings scandal, Calderwood up here , Cheltenham, failing to secure our borders earlier, the Nike conference secrecy etc. The list goes on. 

Everyone has made mistakes including the Scots government. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

England. We originally tried to step follow the UK govt but realised it was shambolic and then chose to do things differently with better results. I know we shouldn't try to make political capital out this dreadful situation but I don't want UK govt making decisions for Scotland. All these countries are independent and make their own decisions. 

Health is totally devolved to Scotland.  Sturgeon could have made her own decisions from Day 1. SHE chose to follow rUK but that was her decision  so the buck stops with her . However,  the scientists that made the outlandish claims of 80% infection rates that directly led to the decision to decant bospital patients into care homes should have to be accountable to the inevitable public inquiry that will follow.

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Everyone has made mistakes including the Scots government. 

Yes, I totally agree.

[JackLadd]

Sturgeon has covered up her Covid shortcomings well to the point she can be even more bellicose about an Ayeref2, and her believers will file obediently. albeit it will go nowhere and she knows it. 

[coconut doug]

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Health is totally devolved to Scotland.  Sturgeon could have made her own decisions from Day 1. SHE chose to follow rUK but that was her decision  so the buck stops with her . However,  the scientists that made the outlandish claims of 80% infection rates that directly led to the decision to decant bospital patients into care homes should have to be accountable to the inevitable public inquiry that will follow.

 

Is this a serious comment? Are you suggesting that Sturgeon could have imposed lockdown when the UK didn't support it? Could she have introduced business support schemes and a furlough type programme unilaterally? Would it have been permissable for her to stop or restrict international travel? Could she have closed our land border? 

  It is the dreadful decision making around these issues from the UK gov that led to our shocking covid death rate. We could only make these decisions if we were independent that's why we need it or the UK will continue to make damaging decisions on our behalf.

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Is this a serious comment? Are you suggesting that Sturgeon could have imposed lockdown when the UK didn't support it? Could she have introduced business support schemes and a furlough type programme unilaterally? Would it have been permissable for her to stop or restrict international travel? Could she have closed our land border? 

  It is the dreadful decision making around these issues from the UK gov that led to our shocking covid death rate. We could only make these decisions if we were independent that's why we need it or the UK will continue to make damaging decisions on our behalf.

You are so blinkered it beggars belief. Closed our land border from whom? The "nasty English"?? Would that have prevented the Nike outbreak??

She should be f"""g thankful for the UK furlough scheme or 1m Scots would have lost their jobs. 

Finally, in case you hadn't noticed, she has been totally in charge of lockdown decisions from the start and could have chosen to go earlier had she wanted.

It worries me that people like you, assuming that you are not just at the wind up, actually believe that Boris Johnson, or England, or Maggie Thatcher or any other English bogey man, is to blame for every problem that Scotland encounters. 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

58 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Sturgeon has covered up her Covid shortcomings well to the point she can be even more bellicose about an Ayeref2, and her believers will file obediently. albeit it will go nowhere and she knows it. 

And the big train Salmond is about to pull in to Platform 1 , despite her myriad attempts to derail it. It's gonna be a great watch😎

[coconut doug]

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You are so blinkered it beggars belief. Closed our land border from whom? The "nasty English"?? Would that have prevented the Nike outbreak??

She should be f"""g thankful for the UK furlough scheme or 1m Scots would have lost their jobs. 

Finally, in case you hadn't noticed, she has been totally in charge of lockdown decisions from the start and could have chosen to go earlier had she wanted.

It worries me that people like you, assuming that you are not just at the wind up, actually believe that Boris Johnson, or England, or Maggie Thatcher or any other English bogey man, is to blame for every problem that Scotland encounters. 

 

 

 

No but the Nike outbreak came from abroad. luckily the test trace and isolate worked as was proved by genomic sequencing, so no harm done. We only have one land border btw.

 

Why should we be thankful for the furlough? If Independent we would have our own, more appropriate system that didn't skew money towards London. We are going to have to pay for it so why are you grateful, it's not a gift?

 

She couldn't impose lockdown. Scotland doesn't have the money or the ability to borrow money to support it nor does she have the authority to do it.

 

You don't know anything about me other than what you read on here and you have demonstrated by your comments that you understand little if anything about what i have posted. I haven't blamed Thatcher or Johnson or England for the problems Scotland encounters despite pointing out on occasion that decisions made by them are not always to our benefit. Bad UK government and this one is far and away the worst, affects everybody in the UK. For the avoidance of doubt, i blame the Scots who think we don't have it in us to improve our lot and need to be governed from elsewhere. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

24 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No but the Nike outbreak came from abroad. luckily the test trace and isolate worked as was proved by genomic sequencing, so no harm done. We only have one land border btw.

 

Why should we be thankful for the furlough? If Independent we would have our own, more appropriate system that didn't skew money towards London. We are going to have to pay for it so why are you grateful, it's not a gift?

 

She couldn't impose lockdown. Scotland doesn't have the money or the ability to borrow money to support it nor does she have the authority to do it.

 

You don't know anything about me other than what you read on here and you have demonstrated by your comments that you understand little if anything about what i have posted. I haven't blamed Thatcher or Johnson or England for the problems Scotland encounters despite pointing out on occasion that decisions made by them are not always to our benefit. Bad UK government and this one is far and away the worst, affects everybody in the UK. For the avoidance of doubt, i blame the Scots who think we don't have it in us to improve our lot and need to be governed from elsewhere. 

Sturgeon could have imposed lockdown whenever she wanted. In exactly the same way she has chosen to come out of lockdown at a speed of her choosing. I,'m not sure what would have happened to our food supplies had she chosen to shut the border which is why it was never an option.

 

Scotland spends £12bn - £15bn more than it raises in taxes each year. The difference is funded by the UK govt, the vast majority of which comes, via Barnett, from shared resources raised in other parts of the UK. Only about 25% represents money borrowed by the UK. That money would disappear on Day 1 of independence.

The furlough scheme would be borrowed money on the same basis. Borrow £10 and you only pay back £3 + interest type of thing. So, when you talk about London, you're talking about income tax receipts generated there that help to fund Scotland and other parts of the UK through pooling and sharing.That is to recognise the fact that Scotland is more sparsely populated, which brings associated costs. Costs that Scotland would have to fund, were it independent. 

Had Scotland been independent,  it may have been able to borrow money depending on our financial situation at the time but at far higher rates of interest than the UK , with costs that would impact on our budgets for years to come.

.

[coconut doug]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Sturgeon could have imposed lockdown whenever she wanted. In exactly the same way she has chosen to come out of lockdown at a speed of her choosing. I,'m not sure what would have happened to our food supplies had she chosen to shut the border which is why it was never an option.

 

Scotland spends £12bn - £15bn more than it raises in taxes each year. The difference is funded by the UK govt, the vast majority of which comes, via Barnett, from shared resources raised in other parts of the UK. Only about 25% represents money borrowed by the UK. That money would disappear on Day 1 of independence.

The furlough scheme would be borrowed money on the same basis. Borrow £10 and you only pay back £3 + interest type of thing. So, when you talk about London, you're talking about income tax receipts generated there that help to fund Scotland and other parts of the UK through pooling and sharing.That is to recognise the fact that Scotland is more sparsely populated, which brings associated costs. Costs that Scotland would have to fund, were it independent. 

Had Scotland been independent,  it may have been able to borrow money depending on our financial situation at the time but at far higher rates of interest than the UK , with costs that would impact on our budgets for years to come.

.

 

I don't think imposing lockdown is possible for Scotland without furlough payments etc being in place. She could and did advise people to isolate before the UK instruction. Coming out of lockdown is totally different as it is staged and dependent on circumstances in each area of society. You will no doubt remember the clamour for Scotland to do the same as England and the claim that NS only deviated from England's strategy just so she could be different. The Unionists demanded that we did everything in "lockstep". NS was under immense pressure to cave in to their ludicrous demands.

 

 NS could never shut the border and the threat to food supplies reason for not doing it is just silly. 

 

According to Gers Scotland spends £12-15 Bn more than it raises and as you correctly point out London and the south east raise more tax and distribute that throughout the UK. Have you ever asked yourself why London and SE is able to do this?

 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Health is totally devolved to Scotland.  Sturgeon could have made her own decisions from Day 1. SHE chose to follow rUK but that was her decision  so the buck stops with her . However,  the scientists that made the outlandish claims of 80% infection rates that directly led to the decision to decant bospital patients into care homes should have to be accountable to the inevitable public inquiry that will follow.

No she couldn't. Borders, borrowing for furlough, quantative easing, any normal independent countries decisions, etc, etc. A lot of private care homes wanted patients moved and their are plenty vested interests! I hated the Tories in the 80s with that psychopath, Thatcher  and those times have spawned some real reprobates who are in the moment! All unionist! 

[The Mighty Thor]

Oh my! There's a fair amount of frothing tonight. 

 

Dominic Cummings to sort out the independence situation? Possible although I suspect he'll be a bit busy looking for dead cats as his last masterpiece comes to fruition and the Brexit shitshow transitions from project fear to WTAF?

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Absolutely 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/30/nicola-sturgeon-statistics-chief-rebukes-sturgeon-claim-covid-19-five-times-lower-in-scotland-than-england

 

Also it looks like the she could be found to have breached the ministerial code over dates cited in relation to the Alex Salmond affair.
 

That would be two formal documented examples of her lying.  

 

Yet it’s the rest of the politicians that are liars that can’t be trusted.  

Unacceptable Krankie oot !

[strappingjock]

Scotland is out of the EU - fact

Scotland independent of UK  =  hope, both sides of the border.

Scotland needs  central bank and own currency. They might use the pound but not supported by Bank of England so economics of Scotland depend on BoE rules.

Scotland wants to join EU. Needs to comply with various EU rules - ouch.

Question. What does Scotland do with the Queen.  ER can still be queen of independent Scotland as head of state (HoS), just like CANZUK  and head of commonwealth. There is one small problem. To join EU Scotland could not have ER as head of state - no EU country has a head of state who is head of state of a non-EU country. It simply could not be done. ER is head of Commonwealth but not head of state of most members - e.g. South Africa, India etc.

So to join EU or to be independent of UK Scotland will need to go to a new constitution - probably a republic -  and go through the process of generating a presidency with all the costs involved every few years.  It could be like Ireland with a purely ceremonial HoS of zero international significance. Unlikely to be like the USA as Scotland would be the laughing stock to try that on.

Ever wondered why CANZUK not republics yet?  HoS costs them nothing and has no say in how their countries are run ( 1975 notwithstanding )

So please go and leave. Save the English tax payer your subsidy. Better still, give us the vote and you will be gone soonest.

[jack D and coke]

Sumboy strapper  

[SE16 3LN]

On 08/08/2020 at 14:56, Smithee said:

Speaking of not knowing what you're talking about, which countries are in the EERM and waiting to join the EU again?

If you find my knowledge limited why don't you do your own research Colin? If Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to commit to adopting the Euro. For some reason Nationalist Party supporters, members and even leaders are vague about this. Why? 

[GinRummy]

3 hours ago, strappingjock said:

Scotland is out of the EU - fact

Scotland independent of UK  =  hope, both sides of the border.

Scotland needs  central bank and own currency. They might use the pound but not supported by Bank of England so economics of Scotland depend on BoE rules.

Scotland wants to join EU. Needs to comply with various EU rules - ouch.

Question. What does Scotland do with the Queen.  ER can still be queen of independent Scotland as head of state (HoS), just like CANZUK  and head of commonwealth. There is one small problem. To join EU Scotland could not have ER as head of state - no EU country has a head of state who is head of state of a non-EU country. It simply could not be done. ER is head of Commonwealth but not head of state of most members - e.g. South Africa, India etc.

So to join EU or to be independent of UK Scotland will need to go to a new constitution - probably a republic -  and go through the process of generating a presidency with all the costs involved every few years.  It could be like Ireland with a purely ceremonial HoS of zero international significance. Unlikely to be like the USA as Scotland would be the laughing stock to try that on.

Ever wondered why CANZUK not republics yet?  HoS costs them nothing and has no say in how their countries are run ( 1975 notwithstanding )

So please go and leave. Save the English tax payer your subsidy. Better still, give us the vote and you will be gone soonest.

Was just thinking that. 

[Space Mackerel]

On 08/08/2020 at 08:38, SE16 3LN said:

FFS, are you really that thick?

 

Well you said everyone who joined the EU had to use the Euro eventually?

 

And as I'm aware, we still use the GB quid.

 

So who's thick?

[Space Mackerel]

On 08/08/2020 at 10:56, Enzo Chiefo said:

The biggest question I have about this issue is ..why?  I take your point about governing ourselves but is that really important to most people? So much of the decision making is intertwined...immigration, defence etc. If Scotland went off in their own direction, it would inevitably lead to a border. That would be catastrophic for trade, travel etc. We already have power over the most important portfolios, health, education, policing.  Is there any evidence whatsoever that the performance in these areas is such that transferring more powers would improve our lot? Not by a long shot imo. 

A hard core of the "end London rule" fanatics would live in a cave just to get away from England but for the majority with jobs, mortgages, families ;would tearing us out our biggest market, erecting a border and losing the Barnett formula really be a price worth paying just to say "we make our own decisions"???  A third of voters in Scotland, more than 1 in 3, could not even be ersed voting in the EU referendum,  the biggest single issue in the last 40 odd years. That suggests to me that hige swathes of people don't care, and some don't even know, who governs us.

 

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

If you find my knowledge limited why don't you do your own research Colin? If Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to commit to adopting the Euro. For some reason Nationalist Party supporters, members and even leaders are vague about this. Why? 

 

Once more for the hard of thinking...

 

https://theferret.scot/scotland-deficit-3-per-cent-eu/

 

And there's more

 

https://theferret.scot/independent-scotland-queue-eu-membership/

 

[DETTY29]

45 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Free bus travel for kids so they might as well pass out free higher grades at A.

im not a fan of Scot. Gov. but suspect they’d be criticised whatever the exams outcome was.

It will need it's own independent inquiry but thoughts put forward are of go back to (no worse than ) prelims or teacher assessments which are just as flawed as the 'work out what number of incremental grades increase you want and reduction of attainment gap' approach of the SQA (SG)

 

If time, money and resource constraints didn't come into play I'm sure a better system could have been put in place notably giving teachers a chance to appeal on behalf of pupils before results released.

 

Seeing stories of lifelong grade A students being downgraded to fails because of which school they went to and the data modelling not kicking out a serious red warning flag is ridiculous.

 

But as is the initial teacher grading approach where results are seemingly anything up to 25% ahead of the norm, which must have had some red warnings at local level too.

Edited August 10, 2020 by DETTY29

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

If you find my knowledge limited why don't you do your own research Colin? If Scotland wants to join the EU it will have to commit to adopting the Euro. For some reason Nationalist Party supporters, members and even leaders are vague about this. Why? 

 

Colin?

Scotland would never have to adopt the EU.

Sweden had to make the same commitment we would have to, yet it still hasn't adopted the Euro, 25 years later.

Poland had to make the same commitment, but has zero intention of adopting the Euro, 60% of their population rejected the concept in a referendum.

 

I say again, there's nothing that could force Scotland to adopt the Euro, and I also say again you were talking nonsense with your exchange rate mechanism chat, which TBQH showed how limited your understanding is of the subject.

[SE16 3LN]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Colin?

Scotland would never have to adopt the EU.

Sweden had to make the same commitment we would have to, yet it still hasn't adopted the Euro, 25 years later.

Poland had to make the same commitment, but has zero intention of adopting the Euro, 60% of their population rejected the concept in a referendum.

 

I say again, there's nothing that could force Scotland to adopt the Euro, and I also say again you were talking nonsense with your exchange rate mechanism chat, which TBQH showed how limited your understanding is of the subject.

You can say it as much as you want but those are the rules of membership. If you want Scotland to "pretend" then that's good and well but I think most Scottish politicians will act with a greater degree of honour and honesty than that.

 

I've watched the developments in Poland as they move further to the right, embrace racism and homophobia, erode woman's rights and end the independence of the judiciary. If that's what you want to base Scotland's EU membership on then I think you'll meet a lot of resistance. 

[Space Mackerel]

Imagine comparing the far right skinheeds in Poland to the Indy movement in Scotland.

 

X 100

[Unknown user]

Just now, SE16 3LN said:

You can say it as much as you want but those are the rules of membership. If you want Scotland to "pretend" then that's good and well but I think most Scottish politicians will act with a greater degree of honour and honesty than that.

 

I've watched the developments in Poland as they move further to the right, embrace racism and homophobia, erode woman's rights and end the independence of the judiciary. If that's what you want to base Scotland's EU membership on then I think you'll meet a lot of resistance. 

 

I said scotland didn't have to adopt the Euro, you argued with it, but it's a proven fact.

You said the EERM had countries who were waiting to join the EU, but only EU members are in the EERM, another proven fact.

 

Fling some mud and hope no one notices - the right just cannot hold their hands up and go "yeah, I was wrong" can they??

 

[Space Mackerel]

There are quite a few Unionists on here who would have rightly got a massive F for FAIL if the SQA were handing out awards for Modern Studies.

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

On 08/08/2020 at 06:09, Brighton Jambo said:

Education will be the next battleground.  It’s clear that the new Opposition parties message will be to pivot to education at every turn.  
 

Even before the recent COVID exam situation there were questions being raised about education standards in Scotland and given NS asked to be “Judged on her education record” this is an avenue I expect opposition parties to go after big time.  
 

 

It's independence, not the SNP that will be on the cards at indyref2. The Media and everyone else can try all they want to focus on their record, which is poor in some areas and good in others. They must be well thought of, as they've been in power for 13 years and are odds on to run amok/amuck next may. Strange that, maybe now the people Scotland will give them the chance to take us to independence, especially with Boris, Brexit and a possible reelection Trump. 

 

Incidentally, what do the other parties have to offer? The Tories down south aren't too great, Labour are fecked nd the Libdems .

 

Anyway, that's next year. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ri Alban

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, ri Alban said:

It's independence, not the SNP that will be on the cards at indref2. The Media and everyone else can try all they want to focus on their record, which is poor in some areas and good in others. They must be well thought of, as they been in power for 13 years and are odds on to run amok/amuck next may. 

 

Incidentally, what do the other parties have to offer? The Tories down south aren't too great, Labour are fecked nd the Libdems .

 

Anyway, that's next year. 

 

SNP and Lib Dems have the same share of the vote at the UK level. 6%

 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

SNP and Lib Dems have the same share of the vote at the UK level. 6%

 

59 v 650 constituencies.

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

59 v 650 constituencies.

 

But he's gonna save the Yoonyin.

 

[SwindonJambo]

5 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

I've watched the developments in Poland as they move further to the right, embrace racism and homophobia, erode woman's rights and end the independence of the judiciary. If that's what you want to base Scotland's EU membership on then I think you'll meet a lot of resistance. 

 

It's a whole other debate, but developments in Poland are very concerning. I know it well, have visited the country several times in the last 25 years and have friends there. They could easily end up being expelled from the EU. I don't think for a minute an independent Scotland would follow a similar path. Very different country.

[SE16 3LN]

15 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I said scotland didn't have to adopt the Euro, you argued with it, but it's a proven fact.

You said the EERM had countries who were waiting to join the EU, but only EU members are in the EERM, another proven fact.

 

Fling some mud and hope no one notices - the right just cannot hold their hands up and go "yeah, I was wrong" can they??

 

Colin, you're the one ignoring the EU rules. What currency are you thinking about today? Barter, the British pound or bottle tops. It is of vital importance to any economy, even a right wing Nationalist one. You're wallowing around in mud trying to hide from the facts. 

[SE16 3LN]

10 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

It's a whole other debate, but developments in Poland are very concerning. I know it well, have visited the country several times in the last 25 years and have friends there. They could easily end up being expelled from the EU. I don't think for a minute an independent Scotland would follow a similar path. Very different country.

I agree but the Nationalist party and their followers keep using Poland as an example. There must be a reason for this.

[SwindonJambo]

28 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I agree but the Nationalist party and their followers keep using Poland as an example. There must be a reason for this.

 

Poland is not a country for any Western Democracy to try to emulate in its present state. Some very unhealthy developments there. Hungary is little better. With its post war history, it beggars belief that they've elected the government they have done. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Colin, you're the one ignoring the EU rules. What currency are you thinking about today? Barter, the British pound or bottle tops. It is of vital importance to any economy, even a right wing Nationalist one. You're wallowing around in mud trying to hide from the facts. 

 

Yeah, blustering attack mode should divert some attention. Hey, why not some poor faith misrepresentation of what's been discussed 

 

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

I agree but the Nationalist party and their followers keep using Poland as an example. There must be a reason for this.

 

Actually, don't worry about it, I see you've got it covered. Have a smashing day, watch for pineapple slices.

[XB52]

3 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

I agree but the Nationalist party and their followers keep using Poland as an example. There must be a reason for this.

Do they?? Can't say I've ever thought of Poland as a great example to follow, certainly not in the last decade or so. I await your examples of independence supporters shouting from the rooftops about the glorious nirvana that is Poland

[Space Mackerel]

Jeeez, Scotland is the same as Poland noo. 
 

You Unionists are literally off yer nuts. 

[John mcCartney]

Fuming at the jock govt,downgrading kids results.
Even though theyre trying to sort it now what message did that give to the future of this fecking nation.
What a bunch of wankers that they are.Should be fecking emptied.Cynical,no ambition,tinpot fecking cretins.

Glad to get that off me chest,JKB I love you.

[Space Mackerel]

Can’t really argue with that

 

 

[Cade]

If final grades had shot up over 10% across the board in any other year, everybody would be demanding his head for making exams too easy.

 

Cannae win.