The rise and fall of The SNP.

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

 

[Des Lynam]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s an excuse . The world should be carrying on as much as normal , that includes plans fir future . Wake up . 

 

 

If the SNP had released a statement saying despite world events we are pressing ahead with an independence vote next month you’d be all over how insensitive they are. 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

 

 

If the SNP had released a statement saying despite world events we are pressing ahead with an independence vote next month you’d be all over how insensitive they are. 
 

 

Theres always going to be some excuse from them and you lot are falling hook line and sinker. Its tragic really.  Funny as hell though. The dream is dying. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

[Japan Jambo]

53 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 **** off! A global pandemic and the outbreak of WWIII in Europe - excuses, excuses!

 

You'd be the first to moan if they were going ahead in the current situation

 

I get with Covid how there was a major distraction in terms of workload but beyond offering up a few platitudes I'm not sure there is actually much to be done by the SNP with regard to Ukraine that would practically prevent them from cracking on with a white paper. Perhaps someone stole Blackford's crayon?

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I get with Covid how there was a major distraction in terms of workload but beyond offering up a few platitudes I'm not sure there is actually much to be done by the SNP with regard to Ukraine that would practically prevent them from cracking on with a white paper. Perhaps someone stole Blackford's crayon?

Exactly.  Foreign affairs area not a devolved matter.  Let the British Govt deal with it.  

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by JamesM48

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I get with Covid how there was a major distraction in terms of workload but beyond offering up a few platitudes I'm not sure there is actually much to be done by the SNP with regard to Ukraine that would practically prevent them from cracking on with a white paper. Perhaps someone stole Blackford's crayon?

Boris Johnson ate most of the crayons and gave the rest to his government!

[Japan Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Boris Johnson ate most of the crayons and gave the rest to his government!

 

Tish tish there is a separate thread for bashing the Tories. This is the one where we get to sit around mouths agape about the SNP's ridiculous pronouncements. Are you happy that the SNP don't want independence any more? Was that what you voted for?

[Francis Albert]

On 15/02/2022 at 18:00, Alex Kintner said:

Could write an essay on the subject but in a nutshell I like how everything follows a child at the centre approach and the huge focus on equality and equity. I also agree with the importance placed on the early years specifically the eligible 2 programme, free school meals and play based pedagogy.

 

I dislike the funding levels and think teaching staff are undervalued. My friends who are still in the classroom feel unappreciated and overworked. I also think there’s work to be done to improve positive destinations.

 

You hinted that you had a lot you dislike? What many documented improvement areas were you referring to?

Work to be done to improve positive destinations? Maybe start with English language teaching?

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I get with Covid how there was a major distraction in terms of workload but beyond offering up a few platitudes I'm not sure there is actually much to be done by the SNP with regard to Ukraine that would practically prevent them from cracking on with a white paper. Perhaps someone stole Blackford's crayon?

 

Workload? 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I get with Covid how there was a major distraction in terms of workload but beyond offering up a few platitudes I'm not sure there is actually much to be done by the SNP with regard to Ukraine that would practically prevent them from cracking on with a white paper. Perhaps someone stole Blackford's crayon?

I have an idea. In line with what I understand to be their principles perhaps the SNP and Scottish Government could propose a referendum in Russian speaking parts of Ukraine on whether those parts remain in Ukraine , become independent or join Russia. 

[Japan Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Workload? 

 

The amount of work needing done. Didn't take you for a Dundonian Smithee 🙂 

 

Health is devolved, Foreign policy isn't, one is a major distraction the other an excuse for procrastination.  

[Guest]

I don't know what I'm more amazed at. Their ability to keep stringing people along or the gullibility of their supporters.

[Roxy Hearts]

35 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Tish tish there is a separate thread for bashing the Tories. This is the one where we get to sit around mouths agape about the SNP's ridiculous pronouncements. Are you happy that the SNP don't want independence any more? Was that what you voted for?

I didn't mention Tories. Anyone in Westminster is hopeless and out of their depth as witnessed on several occasions. Of course I want independence as do many other people but I don't think we should have a referendum at the moment or the near future.

 

If the SNP don't want independence then I've missed it. 

[Alex Kintner]

Can anyone point out the part of the article where Blackford is quoted as saying the referendum will, or even might, be delayed? I’ll wait…

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

I don't know what I'm more amazed at. Their ability to keep stringing people along or the gullibility of their supporters.

That's Westminster for you! Why people vote for those idiots who demean Scotland is stupidity.

[Japan Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Can anyone point out the part of the article where Blackford is quoted as saying the referendum will, or even might, be delayed? I’ll wait…

 

Glad you are patient, suspect you will need to be if you are awaiting Indy2 😉

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ian-blackford-hints-at-possible-delay-to-snps-indyref2-plans-3598939

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

I don't know what I'm more amazed at. Their ability to keep stringing people along or the gullibility of their supporters.

Both ? 

[Unknown user]

31 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

The amount of work needing done. Didn't take you for a Dundonian Smithee 🙂 

 

Health is devolved, Foreign policy isn't, one is a major distraction the other an excuse for procrastination.  

No, as in, you think this is about workload?

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Glad you are patient, suspect you will need to be if you are awaiting Indy2 😉

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ian-blackford-hints-at-possible-delay-to-snps-indyref2-plans-3598939

 

So no quote then? Cool 👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

No, as in, you think this is about workload?

I’m not sure he knows that he thinks. 

 

It would be political suicide to start/keep going on about independence just now. We are where we are in terms of the union and just now is a time for politicking to be put aside whether it’s independence, partygate, net zero etc

[Des Lynam]

 

34 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

I don't know what I'm more amazed at. Their ability to keep stringing people along or the gullibility of their supporters.

The gullibility? I mean the way you talk it’s like we’ve never had an independence referendum before….

[Dennis Denuto]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I have an idea. In line with what I understand to be their principles perhaps the SNP and Scottish Government could propose a referendum in Russian speaking parts of Ukraine on whether those parts remain in Ukraine , become independent or join Russia. 

Are you suggesting Russian bombs and tanks are better solution??

[AlimOzturk]

What I have realised fairly quickly since the start of the Russian invasion is that unity what the world needs right now. Brexit is a shambles and I fully believe breaking away from the UK would be equally shambolic especially with the SNP leading the charge. **** that. 
 

Boris and his shambles of a government won’t be here for ever. Sometime better the devil you know. 

[Alex Kintner]

24 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

The gullibility? I mean the way you talk it’s like we’ve never had an independence referendum before….

I’m not Blackford’s biggest fan but he’s answered the questions really well. His replies are both morally spot on and politically astute, hence the level of butthurt on here from some. 😂

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Are you suggesting Russian bombs and tanks are better solution??

Why on earth would you think I meant that? It was at least a semi-serious point. For some time it has been obvious that some parts of Ukraine don't want to be part of Ukraine. Ukraine has responded by enforcing for example Ukrainian names on places where the majority of people speak Russian and perhaps consider themselves Russian. There are some analogies (far from perfect of course) with Catalonia where Madrid suppresses Catalan independence movements and defends to the hilt the unity of Spain, and with Scotland where Westminster has responded to the Scottish independence movement in a somewhat more positive way (not that that has appeased the Scot Nats). 

[Dennis Denuto]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Why on earth would you think I meant that? It was at least a semi-serious point. For some time it has been obvious that some parts of Ukraine don't want to be part of Ukraine. Ukraine has responded by enforcing for example Ukrainian names on places where the majority of people speak Russian and perhaps consider themselves Russian. There are some analogies (far from perfect of course) with Catalonia where Madrid suppresses Catalan independence movements and defends to the hilt the unity of Spain, and with Scotland where Westminster has responded to the Scottish independence movement in a somewhat more positive way (not that that has appeased the Scot Nats). 

Your post seemed to be decrying the principles of a democratic process of Self Determination, so I was wondering what your preferred other option was/is.

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Your post seemed to be decrying the principles of a democratic process of Self Determination, so I was wondering what your preferred other option was/is.

You completely misread my post. I was arguing in favour of a democratic process of self determination. 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

You completely misread my post. I was arguing in favour of a democratic process of self determination. 

So you think that the SNP should propose this as a solution and indeed you even would like to see this as a current solution? What a strange time to propose such a thing, you can't have a democratic process when one of the sides has put tanks on the streets. Also the areas in question do not have majority Russian populations, as far as I am led to believe, therefor Russia is unlikely to accept the outcome.

 

Bad idea imo

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

So you think that the SNP should propose this as a solution and indeed you even would like to see this as a current solution? What a strange time to propose such a thing, you can't have a democratic process when one of the sides has put tanks on the streets. Also the areas in question do not have majority Russian populations, as far as I am led to believe, therefor Russia is unlikely to accept the outcome.

 

Bad idea imo

I did not of course say the SNP should propose any solution. They have no remit in any of this. I said that allowing for example Crimea and Donbass to vote on their status would have been consistent with the principles of the SNP and be a democratic process. But Ukraine unlike the bad old UK suppressed any idea of losing these parts of their country whatever the views of their inhabitants and adopted a process of Ukrainianisation. 

Crimea in particular is a fairly recent part of Ukraine, granted to Ukraine by the former Soviet Union, and overwhelmingly of Russian ethnicity. 

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

3 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

What I have realised fairly quickly since the start of the Russian invasion is that unity what the world needs right now. Brexit is a shambles and I fully believe breaking away from the UK would be equally shambolic especially with the SNP leading the charge. **** that. 
 

Boris and his shambles of a government won’t be here for ever. Sometime better the devil you know. 

I've known that "devil" since I first voted in 1988. 34 years of arseholes in London telling us what we need once every 4 years and ignoring us the rest of the time.

 

Personally, I've had it with them and their sycophants up here.

 

The SNP can sook it. Scottish Independence doesn't belong to Nicola Sturgeon. 

[Cruyff]

The SNP have lost the will of the Scottish people. Absolute Partisans. 

[Lord Montpelier]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

What I have realised fairly quickly since the start of the Russian invasion is that unity what the world needs right now. Brexit is a shambles and I fully believe breaking away from the UK would be equally shambolic especially with the SNP leading the charge. **** that. 
 

Boris and his shambles of a government won’t be here for ever. Sometime better the devil you know. 

Couldn't agree more. 

[Alex Kintner]

20 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The SNP have lost the will of the Scottish people. Absolute Partisans. 

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

That "coalition" will be gone at the next election. Clinging on by its fingernails as it is. 

[Alex Kintner]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That "coalition" will be gone at the next election. Clinging on by its fingernails as it is. 

You realise there was an election 10 months ago right? 

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

You realise there was an election 10 months ago right? 

You're telling me nothing new. Things change quickly. 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're telling me nothing new. Things change quickly. 

You wish you mean 😂

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're telling me nothing new. Things change quickly. 

You’re right. Opinion polls showing SNP even stronger now and Tories will be wiped out in Scotland at next general election 👍🏻

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

You wish you mean 😂

They will. A lot of Indy supporters won't vote for them. 

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

You’re right. Opinion polls showing SNP even stronger now and Tories will be wiped out in Scotland at next general election 👍🏻

Opinion polls change like the wind. 

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

They will. A lot of Indy supporters won't vote for them. 

Opinion polls change like the wind. 

I think what the guys are saying is the next Election in Scotland won't be until May 2026 !

That's a lot of wind to blow !

[Alex Kintner]

18 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

They will. A lot of Indy supporters won't vote for them. 

Opinion polls change like the wind. 

[manaliveits105]

Hopefully the Greens announcement in the last few days that not only would they do away with the nuclear deterrent but would leave NATO in an independent Scotland will be a coalition vote loser 

[Unknown user]

44 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

A lot of Indy supporters won't vote for them. 

 

Who will they vote for instead?

[Pans Jambo]

40 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Hopefully the Greens announcement in the last few days that not only would they do away with the nuclear deterrent but would leave NATO in an independent Scotland will be a coalition vote loser 

They (& any other party) can decide what they please “in an independent Scotland”. 
 

Thats the whole point!!!

[The Mighty Thor]

Still not dead then? 

 

A few of the boys looking to keep their daily post count rolling? 

 

As you were 👍

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Who will they vote for instead?

It's true, there is no real viable alternative party to the SNP if you support Independence but people vote SNP for a number of reasons,  Nationalism, for some the EU, protest against Westminster etc...

 

However, the world has changed quite significantly in the last few years. We've left the EU. We've had a worldwide pandemic. The economy is absolutely ****ed and it's going to get more ****ed with Sanctions on Russia. World energy supplies are becoming more scarce. There's going to be famines like we've never seen because two of the worlds biggest producers of grain are at war.

 

Infact, we've been in a perpetual state of war for the last 20 years and it's continuing to escalate to new heights. There's no climb down from this. This is the new normal. If we avoid a Nuclear War, it will take 20 years minimum before we're back to a moderate period of calm.

 

A lot of people here no longer care about Brexit or Independence. Those are secondary issues to what is going on in the real world. 

 

Yet, we've got the SNP going on about an Independent Scotland that would be part of the EU, even though many in the party wouldn't vote it. They don't want to be part of NATO, they don't accept a nuclear Deterrent. They're more concerned about playing student politics and virtue signalling.

 

They're a joke and they're not living in the real world. They cannot be taken seriously anymore. People in Scotland aren't going to go for this version of the SNP. The only folk that will vote for them are the mirror image of Labour voters in the 90's-00's who voted Labour because they always did, except now it's Nationalists. 

 

They have had their opportunity to advance Scottish Democracy and fight for more powers in the Scottish Parliament using their mandates as a bargaining chip for the interests of everyone in Scotland. Instead, they have blown it because they're obsessed with furthering their own agenda which now belongs in the land of elves and pixies. 

 

I think people will now probably vote Labour in both elections because they are sick of the Tories and Independence is on the back burner. For this, Labour will have to give Scotland more powers to stop the SNP getting back into power. Perhaps in 10-15 years Independence will be on the agenda again if Labour fail, the SNP recognise their mistakes and come back to the cold reality of the real world and perhaps it'll happen. Right now, not a snowballs chance in hell. They need to get real. 

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

It's true, there is no real viable alternative party to the SNP if you support Independence but people vote SNP for a number of reasons,  Nationalism, for some the EU, protest against Westminster etc...

 

However, the world has changed quite significantly in the last few years. We've left the EU. We've had a worldwide pandemic. The economy is absolutely ****ed and it's going to get more ****ed with Sanctions on Russia. World energy supplies are becoming more scarce. There's going to be famines like we've never seen because two of the worlds biggest producers of grain are at war.

 

Infact, we've been in a perpetual state of war for the last 20 years and it's continuing to escalate to new heights. There's no climb down from this. This is the new normal. If we avoid a Nuclear War, it will take 20 years minimum before we're back to a moderate period of calm.

 

A lot of people here no longer care about Brexit or Independence. Those are secondary issues to what is going on in the real world. 

 

Yet, we've got the SNP going on about an Independent Scotland that would be part of the EU, even though many in the party wouldn't vote it. They don't want to be part of NATO, they don't accept a nuclear Deterrent. They're more concerned about playing student politics and virtue signalling.

 

They're a joke and they're not living in the real world. They cannot be taken seriously anymore. People in Scotland aren't going to go for this version of the SNP. The only folk that will vote for them are the mirror image of Labour voters in the 90's-00's who voted Labour because they always did, except now it's Nationalists. 

 

They have had their opportunity to advance Scottish Democracy and fight for more powers in the Scottish Parliament using their mandates as a bargaining chip for the interests of everyone in Scotland. Instead, they have blown it because they're obsessed with furthering their own agenda which now belongs in the land of elves and pixies. 

 

I think people will now probably vote Labour in both elections because they are sick of the Tories and Independence is on the back burner. For this, Labour will have to give Scotland more powers to stop the SNP getting back into power. Perhaps in 10-15 years Independence will be on the agenda again if Labour fail, the SNP recognise their mistakes and come back to the cold reality of the real world and perhaps it'll happen. Right now, not a snowballs chance in hell. They need to get real. 

 

I doubt very, very much that labour will gain from the SNP