The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Hmfc1965]

3 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

How do you know how it "works" ?  

Did you actually think about what you were writing and apply some critical thinking ? 

Scots will have paid their taxes for decades and are entitled to a pension , it's that simple - this will have to be negotiated in the event of indy. 

It is a truly bizarre "argument" from the yoons that on the one hand Scotland will be saddled with a  share of the debt accumulated by London but will not be paid pensions by London which they have paid their taxes for. Obligations work both ways. 

 

It isn't that simple. 

Your NI contributions don't go into a pension fund.

When you reach retinal age you get a pension in accordance with the rules at the time.

Why would a citizen of an independent Scotland be entitled to a pension from another government?

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Hmfc1965 said:

It isn't that simple. 

Your NI contributions don't go into a pension fund.

When you reach retinal age you get a pension in accordance with the rules at the time.

Why would a citizen of an independent Scotland be entitled to a pension from another government?

It is that simple.

Where the taxes go is immaterial (eg into a "fund") and not the point under discussion here.

London has an obligation to those already receiving their pensions and to those not of pensionsable age who have paid their taxes for decades. You seem to have trouble getting your head around that.

On the other hand, if you are correct and London ceases to have any obligations to Scotland then the spurious argument that Scotland must take on its share of Englands national debt disappears as Scotland could equally say it has no obligations to London. 

 

[Hmfc1965]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It is that simple.

Where the taxes go is immaterial (eg into a "fund") and not the point under discussion here.

London has an obligation to those already receiving their pensions and to those not of pensionsable age who have paid their taxes for decades. You seem to have trouble getting your head around that.

On the other hand, if you are correct and London ceases to have any obligations to Scotland then the spurious argument that Scotland must take on its share of Englands national debt disappears as Scotland could equally say it has no obligations to London. 

 

Where the rates go is crucial. 

If our NI contributions paid into a specific pension fund you might have a point but they don't. 

I have trouble getting my head round your post because it's wrong. 

If this is the level of economic literacy of nationalists it's frightening. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Comprehension not your strong suit. 
 

WTF is that diatribe 😂

 

How do I know how it works, in the same way I know most things. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Scots will still get their pension and it will he funded by Scots. It's a welfare system so your taxes pay for peoples pension now. So it will work exactly the same way as it does now. Except you will pay into Scot’s system and it will pay out. Exactly the same as UK do, 
 

The taxes you pay have funded the UK incl Scotland. It’s not a personal pot for at nanojambo FFS. It’s the tax system is hand to mouth. 
 

I never argued Scotland should take on the debt, I actually said the opposite. Re read the post without your rage👍
 

As I say the desperation for some to find an argument😂 
 

 

 

 

No rage or deperation here bud. Just you posting unthinking nonsense.

Whether there is a pension "fund" or not is irrelevant - you seem to have trouble with that conecpt.

London has an obligation to continue to pay pensions and for those from  whom it has received taxes. It's that simple.

 

There will be post indy negotiations on who gets what/who pays what. The obligation on London does not disappear. And  as I said previously, when talking about "obligations" post indy, it's a two way street. 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

Where the rates go is crucial. 

If our NI contributions paid into a specific pension fund you might have a point but they don't. 

I have trouble getting my head round your post because it's wrong. 

If this is the level of economic literacy of nationalists it's frightening. 

 

The point is - who has the legal obligation to (continue) to pay pensions ? 
Is it London , who is already paying for some  and who has received taxes from Scots for decades (for those not yet in receipt). 

And I'll say it again - unionists want Scots to believe they will not be paid their pensions by London as London ceases to have any obligations to Scotland while also saying Scotland has an obligation to take on a share of Englands debt. These obligations work both ways. 

[Ked]

If we go for it flat rate of 20%.

And tax allowance of 20 grand.

Scrap employer tax but insist on private health insurance and pension contribution.

With an equal amount paid by employees.

 

Scrap national insurance .

Private pensions that are regulated.

Flat rate for business 10%

And for all us approaching old age.

Let's try leaving something behind instead of sookin the place dry.

High taxes result in less revenue.

That's proven I believe.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Im genuinely amazed someone could be so passionate about a subject yet fail to understand the most basic principal of it. 
 

It’s not even a issue yet he appears to be losing his shit over it. 
 

The whole principals of Indy is self governance. 

 

Not pasionate or desperate for an argument bud, just debating the principles at play on any post indy negotiations. If you want to address that , great . if you don't, then probably not bother ? 

[Ked]

And can we stop taxing everything bar the kitchen sink.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Eh? 
 

The UK govt will pay the pensions until Scotland is separate and then Scotland will pay it. Where is the UK not meeting is obligation?  Your assumption and not grounded in the reality of their legal obligations to current pension recipients and those who've paid into the system all their lives. 
 

It not a personal pension is a welfare system you don’t understand the difference. I never said it was - and it's irrelevant to what's under discussion. 
 

What assets is Scotland meant to get in a split. There are no, we’re a country up to eyes in debt. The attraction of Indy is the fact it’s a clean slate. Not according to unionists,  who

insist Scotland must take on a share of England's national debt.

It’s not even a issue and your throwing insults about and can’t even read posts correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

It’s very hard to respond to your post when you don’t quote correctly. Anyway, I will respond. 
 

1. Tell me where I made an assumption. This is what i said there is no assumption in that 😂
 

The UK govt will pay the pensions until Scotland is separate and then Scotland will pay it. Where is the UK not meeting is obligation?  

Why do you constantly make stuff up? 

2. You’ve repeatedly acted likes that your belief. You keep talking about getting money you paid in. Since this is your core belief, it’s very relevant to the discussion. 
 

Your taxes fund the now, future generations will fund your pension be that UK or IScotland.

 

3. Your discussing my post, not some imaginary strawman you invent. 

 

What’s your actual point? As your just indulging in incoherent rambling. You seem to be trying to argue about something that not a issue 😂

 

I’m fairly sure the British state have confirmed they’ll continue to pay it…I’ll try find. For people that have paid in that is. 
But anyone who pays in (british or not) receives a pension from the British state at the pension age.  
I don’t see how that would be different should scotland ever go it alone. You pay in here if you’re Irish for example then go back to ireland you’ll receive something at retirement. 
I think that’s right anyway. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

It’s very hard to respond to your post when you don’t quote correctly. Anyway, I will respond. 
 

1. Tell me where I made an assumption. This is what i said there is no assumption in that 😂
 

The UK govt will pay the pensions until Scotland is separate and then Scotland will pay it. This is your assumption. It is not established fact. 

Where is the UK not meeting is obligation? 

Why do you constantly make stuff up? 

2. You’ve repeatedly acted likes that your belief. You keep talking about getting money you paid in. Since this is your core belief, it’s very relevant to the discussion. 
 

Your taxes fund the now, future generations will fund your pension be that UK or IScotland.

London has legal obligations to current & future pension recipients who have paid their taxes, irrespective of their country of residence. 

 

3. Your discussing my post, not some imaginary strawman you invent. 

 

What’s your actual point? As your just indulging in incoherent rambling. You seem to be trying to argue about something that not a issue 😂

 

Just now, Lord BJ said:

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m fairly sure the British state have confirmed they’ll continue to pay it…I’ll try find. For people that have paid in that is. 
But anyone who pays in (british or not) receives a pension from the British state at the pension age.  
I don’t see how that would be different should scotland ever go it alone. You pay in here if you’re Irish for example then go back to ireland you’ll receive something at retirement. 
I think that’s right anyway. 

Correct  and likewise EU nationals who return home will be paid their UK pensions too. 

Some people seem unwilling or unable to accept the qualifying criteria is how much you paid in, not your country of residence. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Correct  and likewise EU nationals who return home will be paid their UK pensions too. 

Some people seem unwilling or unable to accept the qualifying criteria is how much you paid in, not your country of residence. 

That’s how I understand it anyway. 
Im almost certain the uk govt has confirmed it will continue to pay to people who have contributed. 
 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

That’s how I understand it anyway. 
Im almost certain the uk govt has confirmed it will continue to pay to people who have contributed. 
 

Do you mean in the event of independence ?

If so , I doubt that's true given Scots tories are using the scare tactic in Holyrood currently. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

When you talk I think we may be saying the same thing. Though I’m not 100% 

 

So again pensions is not and would not be a issue. 
 

This is truly bizzaere by the way😂
 

Might well be saying the same thing lol. 
It was Murdo Fraser who raised it and the likes of GBeebies raising the ire for Scotland again. 
It’s the old roundabout tactic of basically saying Scotland will have no money for anything let alone your pension I reckon. 
 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

It’s not a issue, it will work exactly the same way except for iscotland as opposed to UK. 
 

It the fundamental principal of self governance FFS you look after yourself

 

1. It not assumption that UK pays pension to people who qualify for it. That happens every day. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Your assuming they will stop based on what? 

2. Do you think in of event of Indy Scotland you get a uk and Scotland pension? 
 

I don’t even know what you are trying say if I’m honest. London should fund Scotland post Indy because we paid taxes previously?
 

 

 

You are deliberatly ignoring two important facts - people are already receiving UK pensions based on their lifetime contributions and there are current non recipients who have also paid their UK taxes . London has a legal obligation to these people - they paid their taxes to London, not Holyrood.

 

You continue to try to paint a picture of a complete reset for Scotland post indy where Scotland assumes all obligations. So once again, I'll point out to you that this is not correct according to unionists who continue to say Scotland must take on a share of England's national debt as the price for indy. And once again, obligations work both ways. 

 

Sotland may well agree to take on all pension obligations post indy as part of a separation agreement  but that remains to be seen.  

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Do you mean in the event of independence ?

If so , I doubt that's true given Scots tories are using the scare tactic in Holyrood currently. 

Yeah in the event of indy. Murdo Fraser raised it the other day. 

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

The point is - who has the legal obligation to (continue) to pay pensions ? 
Is it London , who is already paying for some  and who has received taxes from Scots for decades (for those not yet in receipt). 

And I'll say it again - unionists want Scots to believe they will not be paid their pensions by London as London ceases to have any obligations to Scotland while also saying Scotland has an obligation to take on a share of Englands debt. These obligations work both ways. 

 

This is correct.

 

UK government ministers previously stated that pensions would continue to be paid in the event of Indy. It is most definitely in their interest to do so for the reasons you stated, were it not in their interest they probably would not be able to avoid paying it either. The U.k state pension is a contributory pension scheme and provided you pay in for ten years you have an entitlement to a pension based on your level of contribution. No ifs or buts, no exclusions for Scots, Poles, Irish, ex pats in Spain or any other nationality. I know this because it says so in the uk pensions regulations. This is not a discretionary welfare payment it is an entitlement given to everybody who qualifies.

  Could you imagine a government saying sorry we are not going to pay our obligation to the Scots but everybody else is o.k. Would they be paying out to English born, Scottish residents who have retired here. Of course they would and any sensible person knows that a fair system would have to be agreed and if it wasn't then RUk would have an even bigger problem with its debt and Ponzi currency. For Scotland its a win - win situation.

[NANOJAMBO]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah in the event of indy. Murdo Fraser raised it the other day. 

 

14 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

This is correct.

 

UK government ministers previously stated that pensions would continue to be paid in the event of Indy. It is most definitely in their interest to do so for the reasons you stated, were it not in their interest they probably would not be able to avoid paying it either. The U.k state pension is a contributory pension scheme and provided you pay in for ten years you have an entitlement to a pension based on your level of contribution. No ifs or buts, no exclusions for Scots, Poles, Irish, ex pats in Spain or any other nationality. I know this because it says so in the uk pensions regulations. This is not a discretionary welfare payment it is an entitlement given to everybody who qualifies.

  Could you imagine a government saying sorry we are not going to pay our obligation to the Scots but everybody else is o.k. Would they be paying out to English born, Scottish residents who have retired here. Of course they would and any sensible person knows that a fair system would have to be agreed and if it wasn't then RUk would have an even bigger problem with its debt and Ponzi currency. For Scotland its a win - win situation.

Thanks for the clarification.

Seems a bit weird that Tories have raised the spectre of non payment of pensions but have also stated they'll be paid anyway. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

Im missing nothing and stopping attaching arguments to be im not making. 
 

Where have I said Scotland should take on any share of debt? Its hard to take you seriously when repeatedly make stuff up🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Again why do you repeatedly make stuff up? 
 

If Scotland was to become Indy of course it would have pensions for it people FFS and Holyrood would take the responsibility on.  
 

Anyway for clarity, I’ve said in the event of Indy:

 

Pensions wouldn’t be a issue and work as does now except iScotland.

 

I’ve said Scotland shouldn't take on any debt. 

Yet apparently I’m making some anti Indy stance and arguing for a great reset 😂 
 

As I say it hard to take you seriously and this is going nowhere, so I’m out👍 Though you have made me laugh 😃

 

Ohh and weirdly your actually argueing Scotland too wee too poor 😂

Bud, I'll leave you to your  emojis. . 

Have  a nice day. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

It’s not a issue. It's almost a tupe of government function.

 

Your pensions right would just transfer to Scotland and then we would operate the exact same way uk does. Tax and borrow to fund the system, whatever it was decided to be but the mechanics are all the same. 

I think possibly where the difference is your rights will remain and move to Scotland. Funding won't that will come from a new source (which is the same as the old source but now self contained) but that's the whole point of Indy. 
 

This isn’t a new setup it’s a succession. Your rights don’t suddenly disappear. 

 

Scotland would function exactly same as every other country. Whether Scots would have more money is maybe another argument.

 

To me one of the benefits of Indy is the clean slate you could get. It would offset a huge chunk of the initial set up costs. 
 

There was an argument made, I think, that markets would hate Scotland if didn’t take debt. That’s a huge fallacy, lenders much prefer to be lending to people with no debt. 
 

That said pensioners are among easiest to worry. 

 

👍🏼

[Hmfc1965]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

The point is - who has the legal obligation to (continue) to pay pensions ? 
Is it London , who is already paying for some  and who has received taxes from Scots for decades (for those not yet in receipt). 

And I'll say it again - unionists want Scots to believe they will not be paid their pensions by London as London ceases to have any obligations to Scotland while also saying Scotland has an obligation to take on a share of Englands debt. These obligations work both ways. 

They do work both ways.

On the other hand Nationalists talk about all the good stuff continuing but we can ignore things like debt.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Might well be saying the same thing lol. 
It was Murdo Fraser who raised it and the likes of GBeebies raising the ire for Scotland again. 
It’s the old roundabout tactic of basically saying Scotland will have no money for anything let alone your pension I reckon. 
 

Murdo Fraser is an absolute roaster of an idiot. Typical Tory list MSP who'll say anything to demean the Scottish Parliament and in effect the people. 

 

If I immigrate I would still get my pension! Unionists contorting themselves again. I can't understand why they look at ways for their country not to do or achieve anything. Weirdos!

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Murdo Fraser is an absolute roaster of an idiot. Typical Tory list MSP who'll say anything to demean the Scottish Parliament and in effect the people. 

 

If I immigrate I would still get my pension! Unionists contorting themselves again. I can't understand why they look at ways for their country not to do or achieve anything. Weirdos!

It’s not something I’ve ever got my head around either bud. 
 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Murdo Fraser is an absolute roaster of an idiot. Typical Tory list MSP who'll say anything to demean the Scottish Parliament and in effect the people. 

 

If I immigrate I would still get my pension! Unionists contorting themselves again. I can't understand why they look at ways for their country not to do or achieve anything. Weirdos!

There was a lot scaremongering by the unionists pre the 2014 referendum about the pensions.

Weirdos is putting it mildly. 

[manaliveits105]

7 hours ago, pablo said:

 

That's exactly what will happen.  Why would the taxpayers of the UK fund the pensions of a newly Independent Scotland while Scottish taxpayers put nothing into the UK pot? 

 

Is Scotland too poor, too wee, too stupid to fund it's own welfare state?😉

 

 

you cant educate brain dead cultists 

[manaliveits105]

[Japan Jambo]

7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 

At the end of the day it'll all need spelled out in the divorce agreement; assuming of course a referendum is indeed held and that divorce is the will of the people. Quite a few bridges to cross before this even becomes mildly relevant! Looking forward to the revised white paper, given the clamour I'm surprised that isn't oven ready yet.

[Ked]

On 05/02/2022 at 13:30, Lord BJ said:

 

It the fundamental principal of self governance FFS you look after yourself

 

.
 

 

 

 

Well said

[Unknown user]

On 05/02/2022 at 14:20, Lord BJ said:

 

It’s not a issue. It's almost a tupe of government function.

 

Your pensions right would just transfer to Scotland and then we would operate the exact same way uk does. Tax and borrow to fund the system, whatever it was decided to be but the mechanics are all the same. 

I think possibly where the difference is your rights will remain and move to Scotland. Funding won't that will come from a new source (which is the same as the old source but now self contained) but that's the whole point of Indy. 
 

This isn’t a new setup it’s a succession. Your rights don’t suddenly disappear. 

 

Scotland would function exactly same as every other country. Whether Scots would have more money is maybe another argument.

 

To me one of the benefits of Indy is the clean slate you could get. It would offset a huge chunk of the initial set up costs. 
 

There was an argument made, I think, that markets would hate Scotland if didn’t take debt. That’s a huge fallacy, lenders much prefer to be lending to people with no debt. 
 

That said pensioners are among easiest to worry. 

 

Yeah, I really have a problem with Sturgeon saying Scotland would take on a percentage of debt.

**** that, there's no legal or moral obligation, no good reason to saddle our children with billions of debt.

[jack D and coke]

Not to keep this pension thing going but can anyone answer how I can become an Australian citizen for example and still get a uk pension? How is that different from Scotland going independent? I’ve paid all my life to the uk…

If I’m Scottish and I live in England does it then fall on the Scottish govt? If I lived in England for say the last 30 years? 
Or an English or welsh person up here? 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Not to keep this pension thing going but can anyone answer how I can become an Australian citizen for example and still get a uk pension? How is that different from Scotland going independent? I’ve paid all my life to the uk…

If I’m Scottish and I live in England does it then fall on the Scottish govt? If I lived in England for say the last 30 years? 
Or an English or welsh person up here? 

Propaganda! It's always thus. Pensions are safe and I don't listen to any garbage coming from any unionist mouthpiece or the media. They'll contort and twist words so that the less educated fall for their lies.

 

If you immigrate you also receive your pension. 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Propaganda! It's always thus. Pensions are safe and I don't listen to any garbage coming from any unionist mouthpiece or the media. They'll contort and twist words so that the less educated fall for their lies.

 

If you immigrate you also receive your pension. 

If it is fair enough I’m not trying to argue about it I just don’t see how come to this conclusion. Foreign people who worked here and have went home get a uk pension of sorts…what gives? 

[Roxy Hearts]

44 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

If it is fair enough I’m not trying to argue about it I just don’t see how come to this conclusion. Foreign people who worked here and have went home get a uk pension of sorts…what gives? 

Westminster being absolute cretins and not telling the truth as usual! They want to make it as difficult as possible for Scotland to govern itself. Some union eh!

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Westminster being absolute cretins and not telling the truth as usual! They want to make it as difficult as possible for Scotland to govern itself. Some union eh!

 

Yeah, it's like an abusive relationship - if you leave you'll never live like this again, you won't get credit, you're too stupid to get a job. You think you could sort your shit out yourself?

[Roxy Hearts]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah, it's like an abusive relationship - if you leave you'll never live like this again, you won't get credit, you're too stupid to get a job. You think you could sort your shit out yourself?

They know we'd be extremely successful at creating relationships and working to make things better for the people living here and they don't like it. We'd have a renewed confidence and our economy would be more sustainable as we're a smaller country with huge resources. 

 

We would work with the other nations within the British Isles not against them! 

 

For all my reservations about Westminster, the civil servants are not daft and most people know we're a wealthy country. We're also never told our true wealth just obfuscation and bluster. 

[pablo]

 

[Gizmo]

14 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

A non-story. It matters not if the UK or Scotland administrate that part of the pension pot accrued whilst working within the UK. 

"Asked if Scots would get the same pension as those in the UK after independence, he said: “Yes. They have accumulated rights in the UK system, under the UK system’s rules.”

It would be negotiated, like everything else anyway. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Not to keep this pension thing going but can anyone answer how I can become an Australian citizen for example and still get a uk pension? How is that different from Scotland going independent? I’ve paid all my life to the uk…

If I’m Scottish and I live in England does it then fall on the Scottish govt? If I lived in England for say the last 30 years? 
Or an English or welsh person up here? 

Because you're not taking evey current Scottish tax payer with you to Australia

Edited February 8, 2022 by Jonkel Hoon

[jambomjm74]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

They know we'd be extremely successful at creating relationships and working to make things better for the people living here and they don't like it. We'd have a renewed confidence and our economy would be more sustainable as we're a smaller country with huge resources. 

 

We would work with the other nations within the British Isles not against them! 

 

For all my reservations about Westminster, the civil servants are not daft and most people know we're a wealthy country. We're also never told our true wealth just obfuscation and bluster. 

This could so easily be a comment from a pro Brexit update…

Adding barriers to trade is rarely a good thing in fact it never is. 
If you go back to Pensions. There is an obligation to pay but and it’s a massive but the state pension is paid from NI receipt as there is no pot - you could argue that we should have a U.K. pot but we don’t.
There is no asset in effect the U.K. holds a liability that is funded by NI receipts each year, so we’d share the liability. I personally don’t like that, that’s the way it is. 
What’s more concerning is the ill informed rhetoric about improving pensions, this would require decades of savings : huge debt or unattractive taxes… A pension requires circa 30 to 40 years of funding into a Pot.. so it’s possible for the kids but not adults.
I’m sure Boris could lend his brexit bus, we could paint it yellow, stick a saltire on it and tell people all about the extra pensions we could (never would) pay… 

 

[pablo]

13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

A non-story. It matters not if the UK or Scotland administrate that part of the pension pot accrued whilst working within the UK. 

"Asked if Scots would get the same pension as those in the UK after independence, he said: “Yes. They have accumulated rights in the UK system, under the UK system’s rules.”

It would be negotiated, like everything else anyway. 

 

Correct, it would be negotiated. This assertion that UK taxpayers would fund an independent Scotland's future pensions is nonsense. The payment of Scottish pensions would rely solely on the ability of Scottish taxpayers to fund it. It sounds like some people think they'll receive a UK state pension if Scotland becomes independent.

 

You're also quoting from what Webb said in 2014. Which is what he's now saying he believes is not relevant. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by pablo

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jambomjm74 said:

This could so easily be a comment from a pro Brexit update…

Adding barriers to trade is rarely a good thing in fact it never is. 
If you go back to Pensions. There is an obligation to pay but and it’s a massive but the state pension is paid from NI receipt as there is no pot - you could argue that we should have a U.K. pot but we don’t.
There is no asset in effect the U.K. holds a liability that is funded by NI receipts each year, so we’d share the liability. I personally don’t like that, that’s the way it is. 
What’s more concerning is the ill informed rhetoric about improving pensions, this would require decades of savings : huge debt or unattractive taxes… A pension requires circa 30 to 40 years of funding into a Pot.. so it’s possible for the kids but not adults.
I’m sure Boris could lend his brexit bus, we could paint it yellow, stick a saltire on it and tell people all about the extra pensions we could (never would) pay… 

 

 

Britain has the shittiest pensions in Europe, damn straight we can do better. It's about priorities, the welfare of the population is first priority, then you work in everything else around that. 

[jambomjm74]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Britain has the shittiest pensions in Europe, damn straight we can do better. It's about priorities, the welfare of the population is first priority, then you work in everything else around that. 

Sorry but that’s not true, in terms of poorest pension provision in Europe. 

Many other Countries operate with no or very limited private provision and so comparisons are apples and pears and shaped for a political rather than independent view or reasonable assessment. 
The side of the bus comments, that we would magically pay more pension as it’s fair are only fit for the side of busses, no matter who’s mouth / pen they come from. 
We should dream but dreaming and slogans are all this is. 
 

[Gizmo]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Correct, it would be negotiated. This assertion that UK taxpayers would fund an independent Scotland's future pensions is nonsense. The payment of Scottish pensions would rely solely on the ability of Scottish taxpayers to fund it. It sounds like some people think they'll receive a UK state pension if Scotland becomes independent.

 

You're also quoting from what Webb said in 2014. Which is what he's now saying he believes is not relevant. 

I mean if they do want to play that game, we can give them 6 months to resite their WMDs away from our most populated area - or rent them the site at an exorbitant rate and use the money to kickstart a pension fund that we pay into. It's as if you believe such hurdles are insurmountable. 

Of course, it will be used to scare older people during any campaigning. Guaranteed. 
 

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Britain has the shittiest pensions in Europe, damn straight we can do better. It's about priorities, the welfare of the population is first priority, then you work in everything else around that. 

They go quiet when that comes up despite crowing about the 6th biggest economy, fastest growth blah blah. Odd. 

[Roxy Hearts]

40 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ahhh the propaganda. I'll no huv a pension likesay!

 

16 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

This could so easily be a comment from a pro Brexit update…

Adding barriers to trade is rarely a good thing in fact it never is. 
If you go back to Pensions. There is an obligation to pay but and it’s a massive but the state pension is paid from NI receipt as there is no pot - you could argue that we should have a U.K. pot but we don’t.
There is no asset in effect the U.K. holds a liability that is funded by NI receipts each year, so we’d share the liability. I personally don’t like that, that’s the way it is. 
What’s more concerning is the ill informed rhetoric about improving pensions, this would require decades of savings : huge debt or unattractive taxes… A pension requires circa 30 to 40 years of funding into a Pot.. so it’s possible for the kids but not adults.
I’m sure Boris could lend his brexit bus, we could paint it yellow, stick a saltire on it and tell people all about the extra pensions we could (never would) pay… 

 

Who's adding barriers, who's creating uncertainty over pensions? I've no doubt whatsoever that everything will be negotiated including if we take debt, we take assets. I know you don't trust Westminster so that's understandable. 

[jack D and coke]

22 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Because you're not taking evey current Scottish tax payer with you to Australia

It wasn’t for an argument tbh and I’ve had a PM from someone explaining things a bit better. It isn’t really a problem at all in the grand scheme of things. 
It’s hard to believe these stupid arguments still rear their head. I don’t really think it’s good enough for the SNP to not be able to bat these questions away easily though. 
 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Ahhh the propaganda. I'll no huv a pension likesay!

 

Who's adding barriers, who's creating uncertainty over pensions? I've no doubt whatsoever that everything will be negotiated including if we take debt, we take assets. I know you don't trust Westminster so that's understandable. 

The National did a simple, straightforward piece on the latest scare tactic.

But I suppose if it doesn't fit their  world view of independence then no amount of facts and common sense will satisfy some people.

[jambomjm74]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Ahhh the propaganda. I'll no huv a pension likesay!

 

Who's adding barriers, who's creating uncertainty over pensions? I've no doubt whatsoever that everything will be negotiated including if we take debt, we take assets. I know you don't trust Westminster so that's understandable. 

I didn’t say you’d have no no pension.  I said the funding of pensions is through the cash in / cash out and no pot… which I don’t like as it has no guarantee. We 
An obligation without any funding. 

That statement sounds exactly like the Brexit spin and the Scexit spin. 
As I said, the SNP should use Boris’s Brexit bus now it’s been parked .. or maybe Boris has other ideas for where to hold his parties. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

It wasn’t for an argument tbh and I’ve had a PM from someone explaining things a bit better. It isn’t really a problem at all in the grand scheme of things. 
It’s hard to believe these stupid arguments still rear their head. I don’t really think it’s good enough for the SNP to not be able to bat these questions away easily though. 
 

How can they "bat them away".

There is no way on this planet any Westminster govt is ever going to sit down and discuss the matter until indy is gained. The questions remains to be answered (fair enough). 

In the meantime the Tories are flogging this for all its worth - when the answer is quite simple - if you quit the UK to go live abroad, you get a pension statement from the DWP at that time and it tells you what you'll be paid based on your contributions.

But for some reason the Tories are trying to convince everyone the burden will fall entirely on Holyrood (when it's London who took all the taxes). The Tory view being that as Scotland is walking out , London has no obligations while at the same time telling us we'll be saddled with the debts that London ran up.  Absolute schitzophrenic view. 

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, jambomjm74 said:

I didn’t say you’d have no no pension.  I said the funding of pensions is through the cash in / cash out and no pot… which I don’t like as it has no guarantee. We 
An obligation without any funding. 

That statement sounds exactly like the Brexit spin and the Scexit spin. 
As I said, the SNP should use Boris’s Brexit bus now it’s been parked .. or maybe Boris has other ideas for where to hold his parties. 

Fair enough but we all know serious negotiations would take place. I'm not expecting the SNP to give me answers, I'm expecting Westminster to🤣. It's got to the stage where what that corrupt lot say, I take the opposite to be right!