The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Lord Montpelier]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

So because you’ve never met someone interested in it then it‘s not an issue worth bothering about? 

I'm bothered about important things. Like sectarianism, and what she intends to do about that.  Not what someone thinks is important 500 years ago - and yes this isn't worth a government bothering about in the slightest . Maybe she might want to apologise for moving old folk with covid out of hospitals and into care homes - much more current. No ? Thought not. 

 

Anyway now she's apologised now - good on her lol -  and so admitted guilt , hopefully someone will chuck a giant compensation case at her government first thing tomorrow. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, joondalupjambo said:

I do not think we disagree on minority issues being important for minority groups.  It is important though to give any minority issue a specific level of response.  A response by the leader of a Government who wants to become an independent country with a European Union is however not required.

 

A Minister can respond, it is called delegation otherwise where does it end for Sturgeon.  She needs to read the room that is all I am saying.

I’m not sure if you actually read the article or just jumped on the headline but she was speaking about thousands of women who were tortured into admitting to being witches and then murdered. I’m glad we have a leader who demonstrates compassion and who isn’t afraid to address horrendous injustices.

[John Findlay]

10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

FTFY

Don't you dare change my post to fit your agenda. Answer the question as to its relevance to 21st century politics, instead of trying to be the smart Alex. The smart Alex is the very last thing you are.

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'm bothered about important things. Like sectarianism, and what she intends to do about that.  Not what someone thinks is important 500 years ago - and yes this isn't worth a government bothering about in the slightest . Maybe she might want to apologise for moving old folk with covid out of hospitals and into care homes - much more current. No ? Thought not. 

 

Anyway now she's apologised now - good on her lol -  and so admitted guilt , hopefully someone will chuck a giant compensation case at her government first thing tomorrow. 

Again because it’s not important to you then it’s not important to anyone? 🤪 

 

It was a short speech on International Women’s Day. Completely appropriate and doesn’t detract from the importance of any other issue needing addressed.

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Don't you dare change my post to fit your agenda. Answer the question as to its relevance to 21st century politics, instead of trying to be the smart Alex. The smart Alex is the very last thing you are.

Your post was factually wrong and required editing 👍🏻

[John Findlay]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

Again because it’s not important to you then it’s not important to anyone? 🤪 

 

It was a short speech on International Women’s Day. Completely appropriate and doesn’t detract from the importance of any other issue needing addressed.

Only at this moment in time the other important 21st century as not being addressed by her or any other politician. 

[Cruyff]

3 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Let’s put the nonsense aside as I genuinely want to understand where you’re coming from. 
 

Is your point that you feel Brexit, Covid and the current situation lessen the argument for independence? 
 

If so what are you basing that on given Brexit and Covid were factored into the May 2021 elections and Westminster are making a pig’s ear of the current situation?

 

👍🏻

 

I don’t think Brexit is as big a factor now as it was when we left the EU and it probably won’t be in 5 or 6 years time. I reckon we'll have moved on from that argument. 

 

Support for Independence probably increased during Brexit because the UK government pissed all over the Devolution Settlement and showed utter contempt for Scotland while at the same time trying to negotiate a bespoke agreement for Northern Ireland.

 

Imo a lot of people would have voted SNP because they were the only party in Scotland that actually stood up and argued against the WM government. 

 

Many supporters of Independence and within the SNP itself do not support re-joining the EU. Yet, the SNP leadership seem to see an Indy Ref as a de facto vote on joining the European Union. 

 

Scotland’s biggest partner and ally post Independence will be the rUK, not the EU, for a number of reasons. 

 

Scotland being in the EU and our bordering nation not being in the EU would cause a whole host of problems. By the point Independence comes around we will have de-tangled ourselves from European Union legislation & conventions and will have trade agreements with other parts of the world which may be more valuable to us than those with the EU.

 

The dust should be allowed to settle for a number of years post Indy before we debate whether or not we should become part of the EU. EU membership might not suit us 5-10-20 years down the road. Things change, economics change all the time. 

 

Due to that I feel that the SNP need to take a more neutral stance on EU membership because it really isn't up to them to decide that for Scotland. That is their policy and if they want to run on that ticket post Independence and put that in their manifesto, that's fine, they can do that, but it's not something that should be forced upon us as a condition of Independence. 

 

As for Covid. I think Sturgeon and the Scottish Government did their best under very difficult circumstances and I don’t think it is fair to criticise the Scottish Government on Covid. It could be argued that if Scotland were Independent before Covid and able to control our own borders would have enabled us to limit the spread of the virus. 

 

But Covid is also a reminder of the threat posed by a biological weapons and for me it isn’t so much to do with the performance of NHS or Governments response and ability to handle a crisis but about Security and Defence. 

 

I don’t know about you but if Scotland were going to be an Independent Country I'd want a Government that is serious and has the capabilities and partners to defend itself and its interests against an aggressor state or affiliated groups, whether that be from Military aggression, a virus or cyber attacks. 

 

The SNP's current position on NATO membership and the Deterrent is not that of a serious Government. I'm sorry but it isn’t. They are going to have to reaffirm their commitment to NATO membership and with that comes a Nuclear Base in Faslane.

 

You know as well as I do that this is going to become a big issue and when arguing for Independence and that will be a stick that the SNP are going to be beaten with.  

 

I don’t think the issues you have highlighted necessarily lessen the case for Independence. Imo it is the SNP's current position that is lessening the case for Independence. 

 

You said it yourself, they need to evolve and that means moving away from this idealistic view of Scotland from the perspective of a Devolved Administration,  to being taken seriously as a Government which is and able to meet the every day challenges faced by Governments of Independent Countries around the world. The world isn't going to conform to the idealism of the SNP's Independent Scotland, they are going to have to adapt to it. 

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Your post was factually wrong and required editing 👍🏻

Only in your opinion, you conceited man

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Only at this moment in time the other important 21st century as not being addressed by her or any other politician. 

In English please 👍🏻

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Again because it’s not important to you then it’s not important to anyone? 🤪 

 

It was a short speech on International Women’s Day. Completely appropriate and doesn’t detract from the importance of any other issue needing addressed.

Correct. This is not important in the slightest. Anyone thinking it is needs to examine their priorities.  Like you by the sound of it. 

[joondalupjambo]

14 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’m not sure if you actually read the article or just jumped on the headline but she was speaking about thousands of women who were tortured into admitting to being witches and then murdered. I’m glad we have a leader who demonstrates compassion and who isn’t afraid to address horrendous injustices.

Spot on.  My point exactly.  You have to consider all the people, of all ages in Scotland who do not read the detail only the headlines.  They do not go to the level you describe, they want to hear other things coming from the FM's lips and read about Independence and the ways forward.  Hearing second hand or reading headlines about pardoning witches ruins all that.  The media know that hence why so many outlets are happy to run these as main stories.

The world has been full of injustices for ever witches deaths are but one.  I want my party to be relevant where it is key not regularly taking opportunity to be relevant with minority issues.  As I said earlier they will lose people along the way doing the latter. Delegate issues to others rather than ignore them. Understanding the issues in detail is neither here nor there in this age.

Edited March 8, 2022 by joondalupjambo

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Only in your opinion, you conceited man

You’re clearly still angry and embarrassed after making a shop’s front of yourself on the bullying thread. I’ll leave you to your rage. 🤣

[John Findlay]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

You’re clearly still angry and embarrassed after making a shop’s front of yourself on the bullying thread. I’ll leave you to your rage. 🤣

Again only in your opinion.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Correct. This is not important in the slightest. Anyone thinking it is needs to examine their priorities.  Like you by the sound of it. 

Fair enough, you clearly want a government that only focuses only on issues important you. Seems a bit of a self-centred way of looking at the world but each to their own. 👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Spot on.  My point exactly.  You have to consider all the people, of all ages in Scotland who do not read the detail only the headlines.  They do not go to the level you describe, they want to hear other things coming from the FM's lips and read about Independence and the ways forward.  Hearing second hand or reading headlines about pardoning witches ruins all that.  The media know that hence why so many outlets are happy to run these as main stories.

The world has been full of injustices for ever witches are but one.

I get where you’re coming from. I think most people now realise the mass media twist any story to suit their political agenda. We see daily examples of the same story having polarised headlines in different papers.

 

I understand your point about a minister responding as well but on IWD it’s good to see her leading from the front on it and speaking about it. 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Fair enough, you clearly want a government that only focuses only on issues important you. Seems a bit of a self-centred way of looking at the world but each to their own. 👍🏻

Funnily enough I do want a government that focuses on things important to me, which doesnt include wizards and witches from 500 years ago. I did mention sectarianism above, you seem to ignore that, I wonder why when that's important to many more . Oh yeah, zero action from your SNP pals, that's why. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Don't you dare change my post to fit your agenda. Answer the question as to its relevance to 21st century politics, instead of trying to be the smart Alex. The smart Alex is the very last thing you are.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Funnily enough I do want a government that focuses on things important to me, which doesnt include wizards and witches from 500 years ago. I did mention sectarianism above, you seem to ignore that, I wonder why when that's important to many more . Oh yeah, zero action from your SNP pals, that's why. 

 

This is the current affairs equivalent of "he should concentrate on scoring goals instead of doing interviews," like one impinges on the other.

 

Behave!

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Yeah I had a chuckle at that too

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

This is the current affairs equivalent of "he should concentrate on scoring goals instead of doing interviews," like one impinges on the other.

 

 

Quick, defend and deflect. SNP way. Sturgeon getting a reputation for lack of delivery on key issues now. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Quick, defend and deflect. SNP way. Sturgeon getting a reputation for lack of delivery on key issues now. 

 

Not my fault you're frothing mate

[manaliveits105]

 

   14 minutes ago,  The Real Maroonblood said: 

Yeah I had a chuckle at that too

 

THE CHUCKLE BROTHERS 

[Alex Kintner]

26 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Funnily enough I do want a government that focuses on things important to me, which doesnt include wizards and witches from 500 years ago. I did mention sectarianism above, you seem to ignore that, I wonder why when that's important to many more . Oh yeah, zero action from your SNP pals, that's why. 

You do realise they weren’t actually witches right? They were women who were tortured and murdered for being different. 

[Alex Kintner]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah I had a chuckle at that too

The level of anger. I had visions of him thumping his fingers furiously into his phone screen. 😂

[pablo]

 

The break up the UK was never a practical reality within the gift of the SNP, and that's before there was a devastating, bloody illegal war in Europe.

 

Now, it's completely over. The UK government, NATO, the European commission and the United States just won't entertain it at a time when the Western powers realign to face this threat.  Trident, the Faslane base and the integrity of the British state are just too important to global security. This is about real politics and real power.

 

Now the SNP could get on with addressing things like our appalling drugs death record. Or.......witches, drive-thrus and chopping the bottom off of classroom doors....

[Lord Montpelier]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Not my fault you're frothing mate

"Frothing" no

Asking some straight questions on the delivery priorities of those who claim to be in charge, yes. 

[Lord Montpelier]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

The level of anger. I had visions of him thumping his fingers furiously into his phone screen. 😂

Nope, not at all. I do like how SNP supporters quickly close rank though , amuses me. 

[manaliveits105]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The break up the UK was never a practical reality within the gift of the SNP, and that's before there was a devastating, bloody illegal war in Europe.

 

Now, it's completely over. The UK government, NATO, the European commission and the United States just won't entertain it at a time when the Western powers realign to face this threat.  Trident, the Faslane base and the integrity of the British state are just too important to global security. This is about real politics and real power.

 

Now the SNP could get on with addressing things like our appalling drugs death record. Or.......witches, drive-thrus and chopping the bottom off of classroom doors....

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nope, not at all. I do like how SNP supporters quickly close rank though , amuses me. 

I’m trying to engage with you on the points you’re making and you’re totally right re sectarianism. I posted myself earlier about failures in the SNP’s track record on domestic issues. I just don’t get how a short speech about these persecuted women on IWD genuinely detracts from the importance of the other issues. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited March 8, 2022 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nope, not at all. I do like how SNP supporters quickly close rank though , amuses me. 

Wasn’t meaning you btw. We were talking about JF’s angry outburst 👍🏻

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’m trying to engage with you on the points you’re making and you’re totally right re sectarianism. I posted myself earlier about failures in the SNP’s track record on domestic issues. I just don’t get how a short speech about this these persecuted women on IWD genuinely detracts from the importance of the other issues. 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's the message it sends about what a government is interested in. There is enough to be working out right now without being concerned with stuff like this, even for a couple of minutes, it's a complete irrelevance in the current climate.

 

Anyway, she's apologised now, fine, hopefully it allows her to get on with the important parts of her job. 

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

It's the message it sends about what a government is interested in. There is enough to be working out right now without being concerned with stuff like this, even for a couple of minutes, it's a complete irrelevance in the current climate.

 

Anyway, she's apologised now, fine, hopefully it allows her to get on with the important parts of her job. 

She apologised for making the comments about the women?

 

Edit. Sorry understand what you mean now.

 

We’ll just need to agree to disagree that a few minutes paying respect to an issue like this on IWD is a big deal but totally agree there are bigger issues to sort.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Alex Kintner

[Des Lynam]

4 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

It’s definitely been a double-edged sword. Brexit made the ‘heart’ argument for independence stronger but the hard Brexit we’ve ended up with has made the ‘head’ argument more difficult.
 

A soft Brexit which kept us in the single market would have been perfect. 

Fully agree. 

[Unknown user]

25 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

"Frothing" no

Asking some straight questions on the delivery priorities of those who claim to be in charge, yes. 

 

No you're not, you're acting like the witch thing is a big deal, obstructing the priorities, it's a blatant crock of shit.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The break up the UK was never a practical reality within the gift of the SNP, and that's before there was a devastating, bloody illegal war in Europe.

 

Now, it's completely over. The UK government, NATO, the European commission and the United States just won't entertain it at a time when the Western powers realign to face this threat.  Trident, the Faslane base and the integrity of the British state are just too important to global security. This is about real politics and real power.

 

Now the SNP could get on with addressing things like our appalling drugs death record. Or.......witches, drive-thrus and chopping the bottom off of classroom doors....

Yep she is firmly back to local issues now we have a real issue to deal with. An International issue. Shes probably

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The break up the UK was never a practical reality within the gift of the SNP, and that's before there was a devastating, bloody illegal war in Europe.

 

Now, it's completely over. The UK government, NATO, the European commission and the United States just won't entertain it at a time when the Western powers realign to face this threat.  Trident, the Faslane base and the integrity of the British state are just too important to global security. This is about real politics and real power.

 

Now the SNP could get on with addressing things like our appalling drugs death record. Or.......witches, drive-thrus and chopping the bottom off of classroom doors....

Great post. 

[Cruyff]

56 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The break up the UK was never a practical reality within the gift of the SNP, and that's before there was a devastating, bloody illegal war in Europe.

 

Now, it's completely over. The UK government, NATO, the European commission and the United States just won't entertain it at a time when the Western powers realign to face this threat.  Trident, the Faslane base and the integrity of the British state are just too important to global security. This is about real politics and real power.

 

Now the SNP could get on with addressing things like our appalling drugs death record. Or.......witches, drive-thrus and chopping the bottom off of classroom doors....

True.

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Shock pictures emerge of SNP lockdown party. No masks worn…

 

 

Who, apart from the usual gobshites, was claiming they're too busy though?

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Shock pictures emerge of SNP lockdown party. No masks worn…

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Izzy wizzy let’s get busy 

[XB52]

This place gets madder by the day. Our FM spends 2 minutes talking about women being murdered throughout history on IWD and the unionists jump in with both feet. Never change JKB 😂😂

[manaliveits105]

We could always change the title to

The levitation and ducking of the snp 

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

It was inferred from Fatty McHibby's attempt to say that the SNP were focused on Ukraine. Not exactly sure what he can contribute, other than eat less grain.

It was inferred by the journalist who wrote the article.

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Fair enough, you clearly want a government that only focuses only on issues important you. Seems a bit of a self-centred way of looking at the world but each to their own. 👍🏻

Is it because he’s not a witch?

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Who's next? The Darien investors?  🤪

Never heard of them. Were they persecuted and murdered too?

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Never heard of them. Were they persecuted and murdered too?

 

They were monorail'd!

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They were monorail'd!

 

That’s an excellent one-liner 👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

As Smithee alluded to, they were led up the garden path by an overly ambitious and somewhat desperate and jealous group of 'leaders'.

 

Anyway, the whole witch thing is just the sort of nonsense to be expected of the 2022 SNP. Gesture-based politics with very little ramifications in the real world except a) making people like yourself feel good about them (no disrespect intended, it's just very clear that you see such things as important while I would view them as a distraction, inconsequential and perhaps even deliberately divisive) and b) those who dislike such things even less likely to take her and her wee cabal seriously.

No offence taken mate. I genuinely don’t get the issue with NS taking a few minutes of her speech about IWD to mention 4000 women who were tortured and murdered.🤷🏻‍♂️

[JudyJudyJudy]

In the same week her Govt has started a process which will impact on the sex based rights of women and girls and their safety .  Insensitive to say the least never mind hypocritical from a woman who claims to be a “ feminist to her finger tips “ . Best not to look at twitter then Ms Sturgeon .

 

” women won’t whesht” 

[Unknown user]

Just now, jonesy said:

As Smithee alluded to, they were led up the garden path by an overly ambitious and somewhat desperate and jealous group of 'leaders'.

 

Anyway, the whole witch thing is just the sort of nonsense to be expected of the 2022 SNP. Gesture-based politics with very little ramifications in the real world except a) making people like yourself feel good about them (no disrespect intended, it's just very clear that you see such things as important while I would view them as a distraction, inconsequential and perhaps even deliberately divisive) and b) those who dislike such things even less likely to take her and her wee cabal seriously.

 

It's only divisive because of drama queens making a big deal out of nothing.

There's no point in her playing to that crowd, she could give them all a tenner and a handy each, they'd still whine about it.

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

It's only divisive because of drama queens making a big deal out of nothing.

There's no point in her playing to that crowd, she could give them all a tenner and a handy each, they'd still whine about it.

That’s becoming more and more obvious. There are posters on here who you can actually have a reasonable discussion with about Scottish politics and who can see more than one side of an issue. There’s other posters who fall over themselves to get angry at anything that Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP do.
 

Life just isn’t that black and white. You need to be able to see the subtleties. I can’t stand Douglas Ross but I can still respect him for certain things he’s done recently such as making a moral stand against partygate.