The rise and fall of The SNP.

[JackLadd]

Oor Humza needs to take the reigns. Ambitious young man that ticks boxes.

[Konrad von Carstein]

21 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Saves their core support from having to worry about working too hard, I suppose.

Hey, uncalled for!

I work as hard as I can get away with  

[JackLadd]

29 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Do you need insurance to ride a horse? If so, Humza's probably not the man...

 

Insurance is just for the wee folk. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

17 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Thought you were Essenpee, not Vegan Cyclist Mafia?

Beginning to think I have the wrong end of the stick here...

 

Am urr essenpee by the way...nowt wrong with vegans, cyclists on the other hand grrrrr!

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually to be fair to KVC the trans / gender ideology is so entwined with LGB equality and rights now so it’s understandable that people often refer to gay / lesbian in the context of this issue . It’s a great tragedy IMO as it’s turning people against LGB now due to the militancy of the trans mob and some of their off the wall views . 
 

The militant trans community has used the LGB fight to get their views and its doing harm to LGB . They are attempting to rewrite or trans wash LGB history by declaring that trans people were at the front of the fight in the 1960s particularly the Stonewall riots of 1969 , where they now blatantly lie that it was trans who were at the fore front of the riots .  It was gay men and lesbians ( activists who had fought for years ) who were . Yes they were a couple of actual transvestites , note transvestites like Marsha P Henson ( I think that’s his name ) who DID not identify as women . They just wore women’s clothes . But guess what ? The trans militants now say they were transgender . When I have regular spats on gay face book pages about this issue !!’ 😂 the militants hate when I remind them of this very issue . 
 

 

Yes, fair enough James.  

I will defer to your greater knowledge on this subject. 

 

I know that, as has been demonstrated within the SNP itself, the issue of trans rights conflicts with women's rights,  hard fought for rights at that.  Joanne Cherry and others have spoken out about this very issue.

[JudyJudyJudy]

59 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, fair enough James.  

I will defer to your greater knowledge on this subject. 

 

I know that, as has been demonstrated within the SNP itself, the issue of trans rights conflicts with women's rights,  hard fought for rights at that.  Joanne Cherry and others have spoken out about this very issue.

Well to be fair to you , you didn’t get the concepts mixed up 👍 yes Cherry is my local MP . I’ve met her a few times and had a couple interesting discussions with . A woman of principles fighting for the sex based rights of women which many Govts including the SNP are happy to erase to court favour 

[JackLadd]

Neil Oliver on latest SNP insanity. 

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Neil Oliver on latest SNP insanity. 

 

 

 

A good listen, Jack.👍

[jack D and coke]

Not a fan of that bellend Oliver but hard to disagree with what he’s saying there. 

[manaliveits105]

Chief Mammy needs to get her own family sorted 

[Unknown user]

Just now, jonesy said:

Neil Oliver is a bit hit and miss, but his summation of the SNP's policy towards children and families is, IMO, accurate. Shame on those who enable her and her dangerous, some might say vindictive, policies.

Shame aye? Behave!

[pablo]

 

Still, the Cranks in The Green Party will be front and centre soon, which is really going to appeal to Joe Public 🙂

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Aye, shame. You knew what you were voting for - a woman and a party who believe they know better than you do about how you live your life and raise your children. She has little to no skin in the game other than her own self-aggrandisement which she achieves in part by duping a lot of unhappy people (not aiming this at you, Smithee, but there are a lot of frustrated men out there who follow the SNP and the independence cause like a football team - I should know, some of them are my friends and family) that 'one day' we can achieve the utopia of separation from the corruption, lies and bullying of Westminster, all without realising that the corruption, lies and bullying are happening/will happen in Holyrood just the same. Just because the bullies and chancers have a Scottish accent instead of an Eton one doesn't make an iota of difference to me anymore.

 

You can ram your shame mate, people don't need to agree politically but you can **** off with that.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Still, the Cranks in The Green Party will be front and centre soon, which is really going to appeal to Joe Public 🙂

Mackay is a crank. Desperately tries to insist he’s a Yes but it’s negativity time and again. Voting Yes does not mean these people take over. They’d be cast aside like they are anywhere else.  
This is the problem the SNP now face though definitely. The longer the delay the longer this type of shite comes to the fore. 
But it obviously needs spelt out again. The SNP/Greens are not what Yes means. But they are the ONLY vehicle. 
People will move to Alba or something else cos there’s no way on this fecking earth I’ll start voting for some mugs like Dougie or Ruth etc. 

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Mackay is a crank. Desperately tries to insist he’s a Yes but it’s negativity time and again. Voting Yes does not mean these people take over. They’d be cast aside like they are anywhere else.  
This is the problem the SNP now face though definitely. The longer the delay the longer this type of shite comes to the fore. 
But it obviously needs spelt out again. The SNP/Greens are not what Yes means. But they are the ONLY vehicle. 
People will move to Alba or something else cos there’s no way on this fecking earth I’ll start voting for some mugs like Dougie or Ruth etc. 

 

Delay what? 

 

Most people just want them to get on with running Scotland, sorting out the education and health problems. Focusing on our economic recovery.

 

They're shit at it. Hopefully we're beginning to see them being held to account. Although, I doubt that tbh.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Mackay is a crank. Desperately tries to insist he’s a Yes but it’s negativity time and again. Voting Yes does not mean these people take over. They’d be cast aside like they are anywhere else.  
This is the problem the SNP now face though definitely. The longer the delay the longer this type of shite comes to the fore. 
But it obviously needs spelt out again. The SNP/Greens are not what Yes means. But they are the ONLY vehicle. 
People will move to Alba or something else cos there’s no way on this fecking earth I’ll start voting for some mugs like Dougie or Ruth etc. 

 

The next election is one for unionists to fear. Alba arrived too late to suss it out, but as the amount of constituency wins massively affects how many list seats you get, all it takes is for the independence vote to go SNP in constituencies and Alba on the list and there's likely to be a very clear independence majority.

 

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Delay what? 

 

Most people just want them to get on with running Scotland, sorting out the education and health problems. Focusing on our economic recovery.

 

They're shit at it. Hopefully we're beginning to see them being held to account. Although, I doubt that tbh.

Delay what it is they’ve pretty much got all their support for. 
Are they shit at it? They’re no more shit than the liars and thieves in WM. They’ve just stolen billions and billions from the tax payer purse and you basically yawn, look away and look for something to seethe at here. People were actually posting about Sturgeons sister throwing a frying pan at her husband or something ffs  

See that ESS ENN PEE tho….

Beyond parody. 
You can be angry at both. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by jack D and coke

[The Mighty Thor]

The boy that walks around the coast, having defeated the controlling governments and big pharma over Covid, now trains his intellectual guns on the SNP?

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Duly rammed  Now posting while standing. 😛 

 

Which part is untrue, though?

- The SNP have a declared intent to involve the state very heavily in the upbringing of children.

- A lot of people have latched onto indy out of 'something to believe in' as much as the reality of an independent Scotland. Of course, this is my opinion, but it's something I have certainly seen, and probably felt myself around 2010-2014. I'd wager that there are more people who 'feel' independence than actually sit down and objectively analyse the long-term impact it'll have on their lives and those of their children. Much like the Brexit shite.

- There has been incidences of bullying, corruption and lies at Holyrood. There's nothing that hints at a higher set of moral values.

 

Voting for a party that represents heavy state involvement in the upbringing of children and operates like the SNP (or the Tories, just to cover that base...) is at best a vote of convenience, and at worst a willingness to ignore some rather severe faults. The anger and resentment at the result of the 2014 referendum ensured a decade or more of SNP-by-default voters. Whether that'll change once folk get fed up with Sturgeon's hectoring will be an interesting reflection on the level of thinking these folk require of themselves.

 

As I said, you can disagree politically all you like, give your hot take on things, whatever.

 

But shame on me for not seeing things your way? Pff

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Delay what? 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The next election is one for unionists to fear. Alba arrived too late to suss it out, but as the amount of constituency wins massively affects how many list seats you get, all it takes is for the independence vote to go SNP in constituencies and Alba on the list and there's likely to be a very clear independence majority.

 

Yeah Alba will start to grow imo. A few people I know who are indy supporters are starting to question whether the SNP are going to deliver this and are of the opinion theyre also losing the plot. They’ve appear to have been hijacked by some pretty weird people and imo they’re possibly a bit fortunate the election was when it was. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah Alba will start to grow imo. A few people I know who are indy supporters are starting to question whether the SNP are going to deliver this and are of the opinion theyre also losing the plot. They’ve appear to have been hijacked by some pretty weird people and imo they’re possibly a bit fortunate the election was when it was. 

The key is to have different parties on the list and in the constituencies, unionists should be very worried if they coordinate enough and get the message over fully.

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah Alba will start to grow imo. A few people I know who are indy supporters are starting to question whether the SNP are going to deliver this and are of the opinion theyre also losing the plot. They’ve appear to have been hijacked by some pretty weird people and imo they’re possibly a bit fortunate the election was when it was. 

The SNP is a horrific party with no intention of ever calling another referendum. Why would they when they are sitting so comfortable with the greens guaranteed to back them if they fail to win a majority. Dangerous times for the independence movement and unless we back another horse I.E Alba then we are in a world of promises but no actions. Sturgeon and Murrel have destroyed what the SNP are truly meant to be. 

[XB52]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The next election is one for unionists to fear. Alba arrived too late to suss it out, but as the amount of constituency wins massively affects how many list seats you get, all it takes is for the independence vote to go SNP in constituencies and Alba on the list and there's likely to be a very clear independence majority.

 

If there is ever another UK election with Scotland still there then independence is gone for good, at least for my lifetime. The SNP conference will force independence to the front as far as policy goes. They need to push for a referendum by the end of 2022 and it will be interesting to see if the ALBA zealots support thism

[Konrad von Carstein]

Could this be the Nicola Sturgeon era's zenith?

Can only see Alba gaining in popularity,  LibDems are an irrelevance now, the Tories have a deeply unpleasant, not to say hopeless, leader and Labour they are aligning themselves with the other two unionist parties, despite a reasonable number of their support being in favour of independence.

All three could (hopefully)be heading for having MSPs mainly from the lists while Alba and SNP take the lions share of constituency seats.

[pablo]

9 minutes ago, XB52 said:

If there is ever another UK election with Scotland still there then independence is gone for good, at least for my lifetime. The SNP conference will force independence to the front as far as policy goes. They need to push for a referendum by the end of 2022 and it will be interesting to see if the ALBA zealots support thism

  the end of 2022? 

[jack D and coke]

21 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

The SNP is a horrific party with no intention of ever calling another referendum. Why would they when they are sitting so comfortable with the greens guaranteed to back them if they fail to win a majority. Dangerous times for the independence movement and unless we back another horse I.E Alba then we are in a world of promises but no actions. Sturgeon and Murrel have destroyed what the SNP are truly meant to be. 

Yeah it’s not what I initially got behind a few years ago. I don’t recognise it and don’t like it either. 

[Ron Burgundy]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

Neil Oliver is a bit hit and miss, but his summation of the SNP's policy towards children and families is, IMO, accurate. Shame on those who enable her and her dangerous, some might say vindictive, policies.

Absolutely.

Shameful stuff.

[Unknown user]

43 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Absolutely.

Shameful stuff.

You an all

[Ron Burgundy]

32 minutes ago, Smithee said:

You an all

Me an all what?

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, jonesy said:

Aye, shame. You knew what you were voting for - a woman and a party who believe they know better than you do about how you live your life and raise your children. She has little to no skin in the game other than her own self-aggrandisement which she achieves in part by duping a lot of unhappy people (not aiming this at you, Smithee, but there are a lot of frustrated men out there who follow the SNP and the independence cause like a football team - I should know, some of them are my friends and family) that 'one day' we can achieve the utopia of separation from the corruption, lies and bullying of Westminster, all without realising that the corruption, lies and bullying are happening/will happen in Holyrood just the same. Just because the bullies and chancers have a Scottish accent instead of an Eton one doesn't make an iota of difference to me anymore.

Yes, completely agree, Jonesy. We're getting a snapshot of what life would be like under independence. Just look at the woke zealots and the barely literate, in some cases, stuffed into Holyrood. 

 

You don't gain a few more powers and suddenly end up with competent governance or politicians. Most people surely prefer good decision making whether made in WM or, as is the case in Scotland,  at the Murrells breakfast bar.

 

I get the impression some of the SNP voters are indeed swivel eyed fanatics whereas others are taking a "why not" approach, an almighty russian roulette gamble.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, jonesy said:

Duly rammed  Now posting while standing. 😛 

 

Which part is untrue, though?

- The SNP have a declared intent to involve the state very heavily in the upbringing of children.

- A lot of people have latched onto indy out of 'something to believe in' as much as the reality of an independent Scotland. Of course, this is my opinion, but it's something I have certainly seen, and probably felt myself around 2010-2014. I'd wager that there are more people who 'feel' independence than actually sit down and objectively analyse the long-term impact it'll have on their lives and those of their children. Much like the Brexit shite.

- There has been incidences of bullying, corruption and lies at Holyrood. There's nothing that hints at a higher set of moral values.

 

Voting for a party that represents heavy state involvement in the upbringing of children and operates like the SNP (or the Tories, just to cover that base...) is at best a vote of convenience, and at worst a willingness to ignore some rather severe faults. The anger and resentment at the result of the 2014 referendum ensured a decade or more of SNP-by-default voters. Whether that'll change once folk get fed up with Sturgeon's hectoring will be an interesting reflection on the level of thinking these folk require of themselves.

Agreed . It’s definitely an emotional view regarding independence . I’m as guilty as others regarding this issue . 

[jamboy1982]

3 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

I think my turning points were a) a mate having an emotional breakdown because 'Yes' lost. His reasons were more about the idea of winning at something than Scottish independence, from what I could tell, and b) seeing a tartan/saltire bedecked arsehole on a train through to Edinburgh from Glasgow for some march, his clearly confused wife and bairn in tow, telling anyone he could get near in the carriage about how terribly Scotland has been treated and how great the country has always been. I'm sure a few floating voters might have been turned towards 'no' that particular train ride.

 

Interestingly, another mate, who was very much against independence due to the likely financial catastrophe that would occur, is now inching towards it because of Brexit. I think another vote wouldn't necessarily play out the way any of us foresee it; a lot has happened since 2014 for everyone.

Likely financial catastrophe?? For who? You surely mean for England and the rest of the ‘union’. Are people still peddling this, now disproved, myth that Scotland would financially implode upon independence?? 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

The only two folk in my immediate circle of friends who were against independence in 2014 were involved in finance which, IMO, gives them some legitimacy.

It doesn’t really.
My mate has worked in finance his whole life and he still argues with me about the banking bail outs. He’s an idiot frankly. 
A good one though☺️

[Konrad von Carstein]

15 minutes ago, jonesy said:

The only two folk in my immediate circle of friends who were against independence in 2014 were involved in finance which, IMO, gives them some legitimacy.

 

No. It doesn't. Sorry.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, jamboy1982 said:

Likely financial catastrophe?? For who? You surely mean for England and the rest of the ‘union’. Are people still peddling this, now disproved, myth that Scotland would financially implode upon independence?? 

How tf would England and the Union suffer financially from separation? I mean, seriously?

Perhaps if the SNP could clarify which currency we would use, how we would make up the £10bn Barnett shortfall and cover our deficit which is 4 times higher than rUK, defend the country without the "economies of scale" cover that funds armies, embassies, airbases etc etc at present, what effect would leaving the UK single market have on the 65% of trade that relies on it at present?? 

If they could provide coherent answers on these important issues then maybe...maybe...the debate could move on from the ideological fantasy that it is at present.

 

They won't, of course, because support for separation relies on people NOT knowing what it would involve.

 

 

[Cade]

This "fall" must be due any day now

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

How tf would England and the Union suffer financially from separation? I mean, seriously?

Perhaps if the SNP could clarify which currency we would use, how we would make up the £10bn Barnett shortfall and cover our deficit which is 4 times higher than rUK, defend the country without the "economies of scale" cover that funds armies, embassies, airbases etc etc at present, what effect would leaving the UK single market have on the 65% of trade that relies on it at present?? 

If they could provide coherent answers on these important issues then maybe...maybe...the debate could move on from the ideological fantasy that it is at present.

 

They won't, of course, because support for separation relies on people NOT knowing what it would involve.

 

 

 

It would "involve" Scotland being able to function as a normal country does, electing it's own government and voting them out when they underperform.

 

All those once colonised parts of the Empire, now independent from London and flourishing but "jakie Scotland" would wither and die?

 

Not saying there wouldn't be hurdles to overcome but come on...

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

It would "involve" Scotland being able to function as a normal country does, electing it's own government and voting them out when they underperform.

 

All those once colonised parts of the Empire, now independent from London and flourishing but "jakie Scotland" would wither and die?

 

Not saying there wouldn't be hurdles to overcome but come on...

Again though, you've outlined an ideological position. "Why couldn't we? Why shouldn't we?"

We've heard nothing but the process from the SNP; now it's time, long overdue, for them to lay out the detail and the substance. 

 

Scotland, as you are well aware, is not a colony of the UK. Most of the colonised - that's not a bad word incidentally- countries are/were clamouring to join the Commonwealth, with the Queen as Head of State. And what a fantastic success the Commonwealth has been and continues to be.

 

I would actually be in favour of a referendum - purely to kill it stone dead - on the Scot Gov opening negotiations with the UK on leaving. On the condition that any agreed deal is put to the people in a confirmatory plebiscite.

No democrat who has seen how Brexit has played out could possibly be against voting on the exact terms and how it would impact them.

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Again though, you've outlined an ideological position. "Why couldn't we? Why shouldn't we?"

We've heard nothing but the process from the SNP; now it's time, long overdue, for them to lay out the detail and the substance. 

 

Scotland, as you are well aware, is not a colony of the UK. Most of the colonised - that's not a bad word incidentally- countries are/were clamouring to join the Commonwealth, with the Queen as Head of State. And what a fantastic success the Commonwealth has been and continues to be.

 

I would actually be in favour of a referendum - purely to kill it stone dead - on the Scot Gov opening negotiations with the UK on leaving. On the condition that any agreed deal is put to the people in a confirmatory plebiscite.

No democrat who has seen how Brexit has played out could possibly be against voting on the exact terms and how it would impact them.

No. I've told you my  (and many others) aspirations for how I want Scotland to be...The countries "colonised" by the Empire may have a very different viewpoint to your perception of that word!

Your previous posting on the subject seems at odds with you saying you would be/are in favour of a referendum.

Brexit and the fallout from it and the devastating effect it has had on a particular lifelong aspiration of mine has if anything hardened my view, and I would hope of many others regarding leaving the Westminster system.

 

By the way, I feel I owe you an apology for my post on Saturday, I was a wee(big bit) out my comfort zone and didn't articulate my thoughts very well and had a bite at you which was, in your words very harsh. So apologies.

 

I'll no doubt do something similar in the future but  

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

29 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

No. I've told you my  (and many others) aspirations for how I want Scotland to be...The countries "colonised" by the Empire may have a very different viewpoint to your perception of that word!

Your previous posting on the subject seems at odds with you saying you would be/are in favour of a referendum.

Brexit and the fallout from it and the devastating effect it has had on a particular lifelong aspiration of mine has if anything hardened my view, and I would hope of many others regarding leaving the Westminster system.

 

By the way, I feel I owe you an apology for my post on Saturday, I was a wee(big bit) out my comfort zone and didn't articulate my thoughts very well and had a bite at you which was, in your words very harsh. So apologies.

 

I'll no doubt do something similar in the future but  

 

 

Yes, that's fair enough KvC and I can understand Brexit having a major impact on a lot of people, yourself included. 

 

You're right, I haven't previously supported a referendum but if it is the only way to get through the impasse, and on the basis I suggested, I would be in favour.

 

I appreciate your comments but, honestly,  no offence was taken. We all have our moments and, yes, it's probably a subject neither of us know enough about to comment in detail.  👍

[Savage Vince]

11 hours ago, jonesy said:

Aye, shame. You knew what you were voting for - a woman and a party who believe they know better than you do about how you live your life and raise your children. 

 

😁

 

Still banging on about the named person rubbish 😀

[Ked]

The SNP have been in power too long with poor opposition.

When I see their different ministers answering questions to the press they are very similar to their counterparts from the UK ministers .

Just a little less at it .

Why are people so loyal to a party rather than the principals which made them vote for that party?

I wouldn't vote Conservative even though I an one because of the current disgrace.

I used to think Sturgeon at least competent.

I feel she and others are in that bubble that seems to go with my first paragraph.

And I am not comfortable with politicising family which ever way you come from.

But perhaps my biggest concern is the unhealthy relationship with the Scottish government and the legal establishment.

 

[Ked]

13 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

😁

 

Still banging on about the named person rubbish 😀

Isnt there anything about it that concerns you or at least you question?

[Ked]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

The key is to have different parties on the list and in the constituencies, unionists should be very worried if they coordinate enough and get the message over fully.

You are very partisan but you seem to advocate different parties and views in parliament.

But you are really intolerant to other views.

I just dont get party loyalty.

[Savage Vince]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Isnt there anything about it that concerns you or at least you question?

 

It wasn't without flaws but the principal behind it was necessary, in my opinion. 

[Ked]

Just now, Savage Vince said:

 

It wasn't without flaws but the principal behind it was necessary, in my opinion. 

In what way?

[Ked]

Just now, Savage Vince said:

 

It wasn't without flaws but the principal behind it was necessary, in my opinion. 

Also I'd say without flaws is very risky.

The legislation seemed rushed and consultation was largely ignored.

[Ked]

Just now, Ked said:

Also I'd say without flaws is very risky.

The legislation seemed rushed and consultation was largely ignored.

Are not is.

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Ked said:

You are very partisan but you seem to advocate different parties and views in parliament.

But you are really intolerant to other views.

I just dont get party loyalty.

 

In fact I'm so loyal to a party that I'm advocating a 2 party strategy