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The rise and fall of The SNP.


Zlatanable

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Smithee
19 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

She accepts that we would have to take our share of debt or negotiate the amount .

I don't, she can get tf with that

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OmiyaHearts

This thread be renamed 'Unionists & Tories crying about anything and everything Scottish'.

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manaliveits105
44 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

She accepts that we would have to take our share of debt or negotiate the amount .

At the end of the day she wants to follow Ruth to the HOL and doesnt want to jeopardise that or the Loose Women contract :ears:

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JamesM48
On 30/04/2021 at 11:53, coconut doug said:

 

Which parts of our economy are not up and running and what needs to be done to help them that cannot be done during a referendum?

Where have you been the last 14 months ? 

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coconut doug
5 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Where have you been the last 14 months ? 

 

I've been here. What about you attempting to answer the question and substantiate your claim which was - Which parts of our economy are not up and running and what needs to be done to help them that cannot be done during a referendum?

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weehammy
1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Nawtional :4_1_72:

Scotlandshire’s very own Pravda!

 

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, weehammy said:

Scotlandshire’s very own Pravda!

 

 

Oh my days..."Scotlandshire"...you really are a supine forelock tugger aren't you...

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Seymour M Hersh
13 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Oh my days..."Scotlandshire"...you really are a supine forelock tugger aren't you...

 

What does that make nationalists like yourself? 

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Konrad von Carstein
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What does that make nationalists like yourself? 

Not supine forelock tuggers?

Edited by Konrad von Carstein
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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Not supine forelock tuggers?

 

You all bow down to Sturgeon without question so I'll take your comment with the cellar of salt it deserves. 

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Konrad von Carstein
9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You all bow down to Sturgeon without question so I'll take your comment with the cellar of salt it deserves. 

Do we though? All if us?

Think you are off the mark there.

 

I think you are salty enough my dear fellow.

 

 

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Maroon Sailor

See what I can't get about Sturgeon and the SNP

 

If her party didn't capture the Indy voters there is no way on earth they would be elected to govern Scotland.

 

They go on about Scotland not getting a WM government we would like but equally we have a Scottish government that most people in their right minds would not vote for

 

She knows the only way for her to win votes is to keep banging the Indy drum and it works. 

 

It's a shambles in Scotland. The toxic nature of the institution debate causes nothing but animosity.

 

They are playing with people's lives in Scotland in lieu of proper governance.

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Seymour M Hersh
3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Do we though? All if us?

Think you are off the mark there.

 

I think you are salty enough my dear fellow.

 

 

 

I've no idea what your last line means but yes the SNP supporters blindly follow her without question. Her MSPs do it as well. Be honest have you never wondered why there is never a dissenting voice on her policy announcements? No other party has that kind of 100% agreement and they (the SNP) don't either but for some reason the keep schtum.

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I've no idea what your last line means but yes the SNP supporters blindly follow her without question. Her MSPs do it as well. Be honest have you never wondered why there is never a dissenting voice on her policy announcements? No other party has that kind of 100% agreement and they (the SNP) don't either but for some reason the keep schtum.

False,  Johnson got rid of any potential dissenters from his cabinet,  there is no counter balance in the UK cabinet and no minister has commented unfavourably on the Stefanovic video or curtain-gate.

 

Nodding dogs all of them.

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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

False,  Johnson got rid of any potential dissenters from his cabinet,  there is no counter balance in the UK cabinet and no minister has commented unfavourably on the Stefanovic video or curtain-gate.

 

Nodding dogs all of them.

 

Absolute rubbish there are contrary opinions within the Conservative government just as there was with Labour under Blair/Brown. Even the Libdumbs had MPs disagreeing with Clegg during his cameo in power.

 

SNP? nope never do you hear an MSP going against her. 

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Konrad von Carstein
2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Absolute rubbish there are contrary opinions within the Conservative government just as there was with Labour under Blair/Brown. Even the Libdumbs had MPs disagreeing with Clegg during his cameo in power.

 

SNP? nope never do you hear an MSP going against her. 

Its not though is it, and with that I'll be bowing out.

Enjoy your Sunday.

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JackLadd

If the covid recovery needs serious leadership as she says then Sturgeon needs to step down and take her SNP with her. Last thing Scotland needs is another ref and her constant trouble making damaging Scotland's economy. 

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luckydug
On 22/02/2020 at 00:03, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

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Zlatanable
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, luckydug said:

        ?

Edited by Zlatanable
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Jeffros Furios
19 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

        ?

??

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Smithee
31 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

        ?

For once you didn't miss the point.

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BarneyBattles

Majority back on I see from the latest polls. 
 

What a fall😂

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Zlatanable
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

Majority back on I see from the latest polls. 
 

What a fall😂

The SNP have become a hollowed out husk.

 

I don't quote polls, cos, they are so often wrong, I came to the conclusion only an idiot would actually quote a poll as part of their argument.

Edited by Zlatanable
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Ulysses
49 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have become a hollowed out husk.

 

I don't quote polls, cos, they are so often wrong, I came to the conclusion only an idiot would actually quote a poll as part of their argument.

 

@Zlatanable, with as much respect as I can muster, who cares what conclusion you came to?  People with an understanding of statistics and probability far beyond yours have clearly set out exactly how, when and why polls are a valuable assessment of the current state of opinion on political issues.  They've gone to college, studied hard and put in years of research, publication and teaching, showing a level of effort, commitment and understanding I doubt you can even begin to understand.  They are people with extensive knowledge and deep awareness of the subject.  You, on the other hand, are the JKB equivalent of Karen from Facebook - and frankly that is as kind an assessment as I can offer.

 

All an opinion poll can ever be is a snapshot of opinion, but as the research shows they are more often right than wrong.  Right now, they are showing that people are not turning away support from the SNP.  Right now, there exists a very real possibility that the SNP will get the same result on Thursday night as they did in 2016, and they have a realistic prospect of doing a wee bit better.

 

There is a possibility that they won't do that and that instead they will slip a little, but based on decades of mathematical research that is a limited prospect, with a probability of about 5 or 6 percent.  There is also another possibility, which is that the polls can only reflect opinion at the time the fieldwork was done and that opinions may have shifted since.  If that's the case, the SNP might actually be in a better position.  The polls with fieldwork concluding this week show them gaining 1.5% over the polls with fieldwork concluding last week.  If current trends continue, that suggests that support for the SNP is hardening, more at the expense of the Conservatives than Labour.

 

If you really believe all your rants - and frankly, I don't think you do - then cut the crap and name a figure.  If you really think the SNP will decline from its 2016 position, call it.  Name a number of seats or a percentage of votes, and say why you think what you think.  I don't believe that you will, and I don't believe that you can.

 

Put up, or shut up.

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Zlatanable
3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

@Zlatanable, with as much respect as I can muster, who cares what conclusion you came to?  People with an understanding of statistics and probability far beyond yours have clearly set out exactly how, when and why polls are a valuable assessment of the current state of opinion on political issues.  They've gone to college, studied hard and put in years of research, publication and teaching, showing a level of effort, commitment and understanding I doubt you can even begin to understand.  They are people with extensive knowledge and deep awareness of the subject.  You, on the other hand, are the JKB equivalent of Karen from Facebook - and frankly that is as kind an assessment as I can offer.

 

All an opinion poll can ever be is a snapshot of opinion, but as the research shows they are more often right than wrong.  Right now, they are showing that people are not turning away support from the SNP.  Right now, there exists a very real possibility that the SNP will get the same result on Thursday night as they did in 2016, and they have a realistic prospect of doing a wee bit better.

 

There is a possibility that they won't do that and that instead they will slip a little, but based on decades of mathematical research that is a limited prospect, with a probability of about 5 or 6 percent.  There is also another possibility, which is that the polls can only reflect opinion at the time the fieldwork was done and that opinions may have shifted since.  If that's the case, the SNP might actually be in a better position.  The polls with fieldwork concluding this week show them gaining 1.5% over the polls with fieldwork concluding last week.  If current trends continue, that suggests that support for the SNP is hardening, more at the expense of the Conservatives than Labour.

 

If you really believe all your rants - and frankly, I don't think you do - then cut the crap and name a figure.  If you really think the SNP will decline from its 2016 position, call it.  Name a number of seats or a percentage of votes, and say why you think what you think.  I don't believe that you will, and I don't believe that you can.

 

Put up, or shut up.

If this was the 2021 Scottish Election thread, your many, many, many, many, many words might have been relevant. 

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Ulysses
9 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

If this was the 2021 Scottish Election thread, your many, many, many, many, many words might have been relevant. 

 

What I have to say is relevant, because it refers to the continued support the SNP have from voters.  What BarneyBattles has to say is relevant for exactly the same reason.

 

Every time anyone offers any reasoned analysis of issues involved in either the independence issue or the popularity of the SNP you run away and chicken out by posting some juvenile and irrelevant drivel.  It makes a change from the usual aggressive and ill-mannered stuff you post, but it still adds no value to the discussion at all.  It's at least the second time I've seen you post this immature nonsense about the number of words in someone's post.  I get it, you have nothing useful to say, because it's too hard for you to do the work needed.

 

I guess you just can't do it.  But even so,  I'll ask you again.  If you think the SNP is in decline - and I don't believe that you do - then cut the crap and name a figure. Name a number of seats or a percentage of votes that the SNP will score in the election, and say why you think what you think.  I don't believe that you will, because I don't believe that you can.  Now let's see what you're made of.  Put up, or shut up.

 

 

 

 

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Enzo Chiefo
6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have become a hollowed out husk.

 

I don't quote polls, cos, they are so often wrong, I came to the conclusion only an idiot would actually quote a poll as part of their argument.

You're right.  If the last few elections taught us anything it's that the silent majority are never represented in the polls. Remember at the last GE, right up to polling day, it was thought that the scruffy, Marxist dinosaur had a chance of getting the keys to No.10. In the end, it was a landslide for the Tories and that particular nightmare was averted.

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Barack
21 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're right.  If the last few elections taught us anything it's that the silent majority are never represented in the polls. Remember at the last GE, right up to polling day, it was thought that the scruffy, Marxist dinosaur had a chance of getting the keys to No.10. In the end, it was a landslide for the Tories and that particular nightmare was averted.

Good job it's still early in Uruguay. Or you'd be on the receiving end of a stern thesis right now, Enzo.

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jambo89
56 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're right.  If the last few elections taught us anything it's that the silent majority are never represented in the polls. Remember at the last GE, right up to polling day, it was thought that the scruffy, Marxist dinosaur had a chance of getting the keys to No.10. In the end, it was a landslide for the Tories and that particular nightmare was averted.

 

So the polls are wrong and the SNP won't win a majority of seats. Just quoting this for 'bookmark' purposes.

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Des Lynam
21 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Not supine forelock tuggers?


:lol: 

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5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

What I have to say is relevant, because it refers to the continued support the SNP have from voters.  What BarneyBattles has to say is relevant for exactly the same reason.

 

Every time anyone offers any reasoned analysis of issues involved in either the independence issue or the popularity of the SNP you run away and chicken out by posting some juvenile and irrelevant drivel.  It makes a change from the usual aggressive and ill-mannered stuff you post, but it still adds no value to the discussion at all.  It's at least the second time I've seen you post this immature nonsense about the number of words in someone's post.  I get it, you have nothing useful to say, because it's too hard for you to do the work needed.

 

I guess you just can't do it.  But even so,  I'll ask you again.  If you think the SNP is in decline - and I don't believe that you do - then cut the crap and name a figure. Name a number of seats or a percentage of votes that the SNP will score in the election, and say why you think what you think.  I don't believe that you will, because I don't believe that you can.  Now let's see what you're made of.  Put up, or shut up.

 

 

 

 

Wow, what a smack down. Great to see. 

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BarneyBattles
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP have become a hollowed out husk.

 

I don't quote polls, cos, they are so often wrong, I came to the conclusion only an idiot would actually quote a poll as part of their argument.


You wouldn’t consider using a bang up to date indication of voting intention as a barometer in a discussion on whether or not support for the SNP is falling?

 

And you’re calling me an idiot?

 

Anyway, I see you’ve already been filleted by Uly so I’ll leave you to lick your wounds in peace. 

Edited by BarneyBattles
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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

 

So the polls are wrong and the SNP won't win a majority of seats. Just quoting this for 'bookmark' purposes.

The polls have been spectacularly wrong at the last few elections. Do you not remember the GE 2019?? The validity of polls was called into question. The SNP majority appears to be on a knife edge 

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jambo89
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The polls have been spectacularly wrong at the last few elections. Do you not remember the GE 2019?? The validity of polls was called into question. The SNP majority appears to be on a knife edge 

 

I do remember, I also remember the polls when May called a snap election, but that makes you an I and idiot according to some on here. Anyway, I still think SNP will have the most MSP's of any of the other parties and was only quoting you for bookmarking purposes / Friday morning. 

Edited by jambo89
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Enzo Chiefo
2 hours ago, Barack said:

Good job it's still early in Uruguay. Or you'd be on the receiving end of a stern thesis right now, Enzo.

🤣. I was conscious of the time zones before posting,  Barack.👍

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manaliveits105

Corals 12/1 for indyref this year and 4/1 for indyref next year - pile on - the bookies could be wrong .:greggy:

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Maroon Sailor
Posted (edited)

Interviewed by Andrew Marr last week, when asked how an independent Scotland would replace the funds for public spending currently guaranteed by the so-called Barnett Formula (under which Britons in Scotland receive £2,500 a year more than they pay in taxes, compared with just £91 for those in England), Sturgeon said that instead of 'a decade of Tory austerity completely against our will … we'll deal with a deficit in the same way almost every other country across the world that has a deficit deals with that — you manage your finances'.

Well, yes: but it will be the ECB and the European Commission which will tell Edinburgh how big (or rather, small) that deficit will be. Sturgeon needs only look at what happened to the Republic of Ireland in the wake of the 2009 financial crisis.

 

The Commission and the ECB demanded Dublin cut unemployment benefits and public sector pay, while increasing the age of eligibility for the state pension. As Paul Sweeney of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions wrote of their dealings with the ECB and the Commission: 'It was clear who was in control. It was not a dialogue.'

Good for the BBC's interviewers in London for challenging Sturgeon on these matters. Even if the line goes dead at awkward moments.

 

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor
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jambo89

 

4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Nippy hasn't thought things through by all accounts - pun intended

 

 

 

Interviewed by Andrew Marr last week, when asked how an independent Scotland would replace the funds for public spending currently guaranteed by the so-called Barnett Formula (under which Britons in Scotland receive £2,500 a year more than they pay in taxes, compared with just £91 for those in England), Sturgeon said that instead of 'a decade of Tory austerity completely against our will … we'll deal with a deficit in the same way almost every other country across the world that has a deficit deals with that — you manage your finances'.

Well, yes: but it will be the ECB and the European Commission which will tell Edinburgh how big (or rather, small) that deficit will be. Sturgeon needs only look at what happened to the Republic of Ireland in the wake of the 2009 financial crisis.

 

The Commission and the ECB demanded Dublin cut unemployment benefits and public sector pay, while increasing the age of eligibility for the state pension. As Paul Sweeney of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions wrote of their dealings with the ECB and the Commission: 'It was clear who was in control. It was not a dialogue.'

Good for the BBC's interviewers in London for challenging Sturgeon on these matters. Even if the line goes dead at awkward moments.

 

 

 

Does the Barnett formula take in to account the 106 billion projected spend on HS2? 2,500 seems like a lot. Does it include the tax take from people employed in Scotland / Scottish companies but live in England?

 

Genuinely asking as I don't remember much from the Barnett formula during the referendum (obviously remember it being an issue, but can't remember how it all works) 

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Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

 

 

 

Does the Barnett formula take in to account the 106 billion projected spend on HS2? 2,500 seems like a lot. Does it include the tax take from people employed in Scotland / Scottish companies but live in England?

 

Genuinely asking as I don't remember much from the Barnett formula during the referendum (obviously remember it being an issue, but can't remember how it all works) 

 

She didn't mention any of that in her response only the usual defective tactic of blaming the Tories for all Scotland's ills.

 

 

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jambo89
1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

She didn't mention any of that in her response only the usual defective tactic of blaming the Tories for all Scotland's ills.

 

 

 

I don't know what you're talking about m8. Didn't see the interview and my question was about the Barnett formula. I assumed you knew about it as it was part of your post, will look in to it myself if it includes HS2 and other England only projects,  but thanks anyway. 

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Maroon Sailor
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

I don't know what you're talking about m8. Didn't see the interview and my question was about the Barnett formula. I assumed you knew about it as it was part of your post, will look in to it myself if it includes HS2 and other England only projects,  but thanks anyway. 

 

My post was from an interview she did with Andrew Marr

 

Suffice to say she is still a bit sketchy with the financial aspects of an Independent Scotland

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor
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jambo89
8 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

My post was from an interview she did with Andrew Marr

 

Suffice to say she is still a bit sketchy with the financial aspects of an Independent Scotland

 

 

 

I know it was an interview, my post was a regarding what was contained in that interview (the Barnett formula). I assumed this was the bone of contention not the interview in and of itself

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Seymour M Hersh
25 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

My post was from an interview she did with Andrew Marr

 

Suffice to say she is still a bit sketchy with the financial aspects of an Independent Scotland

 

 

 

Who said this?

 

 'Our balance sheet would be too big for an independent Scotland. And so we would move our registered headquarters to London.'

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JamesM48
4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You're right.  If the last few elections taught us anything it's that the silent majority are never represented in the polls. Remember at the last GE, right up to polling day, it was thought that the scruffy, Marxist dinosaur had a chance of getting the keys to No.10. In the end, it was a landslide for the Tories and that particular nightmare was averted.

 

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The polls have been spectacularly wrong at the last few elections. Do you not remember the GE 2019?? The validity of polls was called into question. The SNP majority appears to be on a knife edge 

LOL @ the scruff marxist dinosaur...OI i liked Corbyn.. ! but that description made me laugh   .  Hopefully they lose their majority but will still have the insipid Greens to keep them in power. 

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jack D and coke
23 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Who said this?

 

 'Our balance sheet would be too big for an independent Scotland. And so we would move our registered headquarters to London.'

They’d have to move by law wouldn’t they? Why is that never really mentioned? They have business here and would have to keep a presence, pretty much the same presence they have atm to maintain the business they have here and to encourage more no? Or they’re just deciding nobody needs a loan here now so then that’s a space for someone else to move in? Unless people believe they’d just not care about selling mortgages, loans or financial services anymore because Scotland has changed its status. Don’t they try sell in foreign markets with different parts of the business or is absolutely everything they do run through Edinburgh and Scotland goes indy and they leave lock stock? Surely the people they have here who are good at their job would be kept?
I don’t think theyd just abandon all their buildings and staff and property such as at gogar and pass the burden on to the rUK taxpayer again would they with payoffs and a huge portfolio of property, loans and mortgages? That’s how the media make it sound to me anyway. We go Indy and they’re out of here🤷🏽‍♂️
I don’t know any of this for a fact obviously but a lot of it sounds like unfounded scare stories to me. There will be money to be made and I’m sure they’ll be around. 
 

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Seymour M Hersh
2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They’d have to move by law wouldn’t they? Why is that never really mentioned? They have business here and would have to keep a presence, pretty much the same presence they have atm to maintain the business they have here and to encourage more no? Or they’re just deciding nobody needs a loan here now so then that’s a space for someone else to move in? Unless people believe they’d just not care about selling mortgages, loans or financial services anymore because Scotland has changed its status. Don’t they try sell in foreign markets with different parts of the business or is absolutely everything they do run through Edinburgh and Scotland goes indy and they leave lock stock? Surely the people they have here who are good at their job would be kept?
I don’t think theyd just abandon all their buildings and staff and property such as at gogar and pass the burden on to the rUK taxpayer again would they with payoffs and a huge portfolio of property, loans and mortgages? That’s how the media make it sound to me anyway. We go Indy and they’re out of here🤷🏽‍♂️
I don’t know any of this for a fact obviously but a lot of it sounds like unfounded scare stories to me. There will be money to be made and I’m sure they’ll be around. 
 

 

That's already happening. As for it being unfounded it comes from Alison Rose the boss of NatWest  Holdings the parent company of RBS. 

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