The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Mars plastic]

14 minutes ago, Swahili Jambo said:

Couldn't be better really, independent and back with our European brothers and sisters.  Tick tock

Rabid.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

No choice who runs our country or doesn’t make decisions ?
 

Assume you mean except Sturgeon making decisions on economy, education, health, justice, rural affairs, housing, environment, equal opportunities, consumer advocacy and advice, transport and taxation ? 

 

No wonder independence is actually a thing if that’s the train of though amongst her supporters. 

 

England's electorate decides who's in government, and that government could close down the Scottish parliament tomorrow if they wanted to. That's how much power Scotland has - whatever Westminster decides.

 

So yeah, we have no choice in who actually runs the country.

[Dazo]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

England's electorate decides who's in government, and that government could close down the Scottish parliament tomorrow if they wanted to. That's how much power Scotland has - whatever Westminster decides.

 

So yeah, we have no choice in who actually runs the country.

So what does the Scottish government do ? 
 

What a world Nicola gets to live in, status and salary but no responsibility 😂

[Maroon Sailor]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

England's electorate decides who's in government, and that government could close down the Scottish parliament tomorrow if they wanted to. That's how much power Scotland has - whatever Westminster decides.

 

So yeah, we have no choice in who actually runs the country.

 

Sturgeon is fecking hopeless at running Scotland and we had a choice

[Swahili Jambo]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

England's electorate decides who's in government, and that government could close down the Scottish parliament tomorrow if they wanted to. That's how much power Scotland has - whatever Westminster decides.

 

So yeah, we have no choice in who actually runs the country.

No it couldn't. That's just nonsense and I suspect you know that, despite how much I suspect you would like it.  The SNP, legally elected run the country.  Tick tock. 

  

[Swahili Jambo]

24 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Sturgeon is fecking hopeless at running Scotland and we had a choice

And the choice was made by the overwhelming majority of the Scottish electorate, and that was, wee Nic is doing a great job.  Fear and self loathing.

[Swahili Jambo]

27 minutes ago, Dazo said:

So what does the Scottish government do ? 
 

What a world Nicola gets to live in, status and salary but no responsibility 😂

No responsibility!  **** me, there really are some dumb, union flag goggle wearers out there.  Deal with it.  Fear and self loathing. 

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Swahili Jambo said:

No responsibility!  **** me, there really are some dumb, union flag goggle wearers out there.  Deal with it.  Fear and self loathing. 

You ok sweetheart ? You seem a little angry. 

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, Swahili Jambo said:

No it couldn't. That's just nonsense and I suspect you know that, despite how much I suspect you would like it.  The SNP, legally elected run the country.  Tick tock. 

  

Eh? Why would I like Westminster to close down the Scottish government?

[Unknown user]

 

46 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Sturgeon is fecking hopeless at running Scotland and we had a choice

Yeah I'm not a fan, I'll be thrilled to get rid of the need for the SNP in an independent Scotland.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Eh? Why would I like Westminster to close down the Scottish government?

He’s all over the shop I’d ignore that one. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

No choice who runs our country or doesn’t make decisions ?
 

Assume you mean except Sturgeon making decisions on economy, education, health, justice, rural affairs, housing, environment, equal opportunities, consumer advocacy and advice, transport and taxation ? 

 

No wonder independence is actually a thing if that’s the train of though amongst her supporters. 

We're not self determining. 

Handing over the pocket money then telling us what it's to be spent on is not independence. 

The train of thought of unionists intrigues me. I genuinely wonder just how bad it has to get before the blinkers fall from their eyes. 

[JackLadd]

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah I'm not a fan, I'll be thrilled to get rid of the need for the SNP in an independent Scotland.

 

 

Oh you'll need an SNP my dear Smiffy. I will not cast a vote for anyone that will not restore the Union. Likely I will have upped sticks to Morpeth or similar by then I'll concede. 

[manaliveits105]

Keep a light on London because we are not leaving 

[JackLadd]

How was the 2m distancing at that refuweeegeee hijack an immigration van SNP organised stunt?

[Francis Albert]

According to the Home Office 5.4 million EU citizens living in the UK have applied for settled status, 50% higher than the estimated number of EU citizens living here at the time of the Brexit referendum. 4.9m of the 5.4m have been granted settled status of which 4.88m are living in England. Two things strike me, if these figures are anything like right.

 

A lot of people seem to want to live in the supposedly racist and xenophobic country of England. Very few seem to want to live in tolerant and welcoming Scotland. Perhaps the SNP's love affair with the EU and its people is not entirely reciprocated.

 

And if the scale of immigration had been more than a small fraction (proportionate to population) in Scotland compared to England would Scotland have been as welcoming and tolerant as it is, or at least able to claim it is.

 

 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Sturgeon is fecking hopeless at running Scotland and we had a choice

[scott herbertson]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

According to the Home Office 5.4 million EU citizens living in the UK have applied for settled status, 50% higher than the estimated number of EU citizens living here at the time of the Brexit referendum. 4.9m of the 5.4m have been granted settled status of which 4.88m are living in England. Two things strike me, if these figures are anything like right.

 

A lot of people seem to want to live in the supposedly racist and xenophobic country of England. Very few seem to want to live in tolerant and welcoming Scotland. Perhaps the SNP's love affair with the EU and its people is not entirely reciprocated.

 

And if the scale of immigration had been more than a small fraction (proportionate to population) in Scotland compared to England would Scotland have been as welcoming and tolerant as it is, or at least able to claim it is.

 

 

 

 

 

applications according to the home office

 

England	Scotland	Wales	Northern Ireland
4,884,100	268,500	89,800	88,600

 

 

Lower proportions for the other nations but I guess that London has a disproportionate effect

[JackLadd]

21 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Remind us where UKIP, BNP, Orange Order, Britain/Scotland First, etc. fall on the political spectrum when it comes to Scottish Independence...

 

I'll hazard a guess the same as the 52% of Scotland that voted for Unionists parties last week. 

[Francis Albert]

20 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

applications according to the home office

 

England	Scotland	Wales	Northern Ireland
4,884,100	268,500	89,800	88,600

 

 

Lower proportions for the other nations but I guess that London has a disproportionate effect

Thanks. The paper I read (the Telegraph) quoted approx the same total number of applications but then said virtually all the applications in England (4.88m) had been granted and by implication very few had been granted in the other three nations. This doesn't make sense. I will look for a correction tomorrow. I agree  London will have a disproportionate effect.

[Francis Albert]

11 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

It could be related to job opportunities, the climate, desire to be close to family members already resettled, or the fact that the London draw usually skews these kinds of statistics. 

 

Anything to tby the Nationalists ,oalk down and denigrate Scotland though. 

It was more or at least as much about challenging the constant talking down and disparaging by the Nationalists of England (to put it mildly). But the stats I quoted look dodgy, as I have since said.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

That's certainly words of wisdom

 

Ftfy. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah I'm not a fan, I'll be thrilled to get rid of the need for the SNP in an independent Scotland.

 

Can you name any of the superb politicians just waiting in the wings to take control of Utopia? And, what do you think the current SNP politicians will do? Ride off into the sunset on their highland cattle? 

[Jeffros Furios]

12 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Can you name any of the superb politicians just waiting in the wings to take control of Utopia? And, what do you think the current SNP politicians will do? Ride off into the sunset on their highland cattle? 

Some think Kate Forbes could be a potential leader , if that happened i would leave the country .

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Some think Kate Forbes could be a potential leader , if that happened i would leave the country .

@Jeffros Furios Paul Daniels moment!

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Some think Kate Forbes could be a potential leader , if that happened i would leave the country .

 

Why?  We keep getting told by nationalists that once independence is attained they'll all step away from politics. 

[Spellczech]

On 10/05/2021 at 21:01, Ulysses said:

 

You were saying that having an oil fund and having a welfare state of generous proportions was "having your cake and eating it".  That was earnest, but it was wrong.  You can.  Norway can and does, and is the proof that it can be done.  Norway has a high level of hydrocarbon reserves, high welfare rates, high taxes, high levels of State saving, moderate levels of public debt, high levels of income equality, and high net personal incomes.  Scotland is part of a country with moderately high hydrocarbon reserves, mediocre welfare rates, moderate taxes, low levels of State saving, high levels of public debt, poor levels of income equality, and moderate net personal incomes.

 

Scotland itself doesn't have all those negatives.  It is part of a bigger system that has all those negatives.  Your argument is that Scotland shouldn't or can't leave its negative and unsustainable surroundings because things have already gotten so bad that it just has to stay, or maybe things would get even more shit.  That's just not a convincing argument, whether politically, economically or philosophically.  It is nothing better than the politics of resignation and pointlessness.

 

An independent Scotland would not end up with a sovereign wealth fund the size of Norway's, and it would take longer to get to a respectable level.  But it would be in a better position than it is today.  Who knows if Scotland could tackle the mediocre welfare rates, moderate taxes, low levels of State saving, high levels of public debt, poor levels of income equality, and moderate net personal incomes?  Maybe Scotland could do that.  Maybe Scotland could do that but at the price of not having a sovereign wealth fund.  Maybe Scotland could only do some of that list, or not achieve any of those things at all.  But it could try, instead of being locked into and dependent on a system that won't try.

When has the SNP ever made a case for doing any of this though? Their economics is based on solely spending only and grabbing loads of oil money from somewhere to pay for it all...They've talked for 14 years about child poverty and done nothing. They've talked for 14 years about education and it has got worse. They've talked for 14 years about a fairer society but the only measure upon which it is fairer is against England, because they give more free stuff to people who don't contribute taxes...

 

They have it all back to front. They have to prove themselves capable in Govt before asking us to take a leap into the unknown. So far they've proved nothing and their excuses for accomplishing nothing is that they "haven't got the powers to affect social security" etc. It's a blame culture of the worst kind, which is why my mate thinks actually thinks Independence would be good because it would mean we cannot blame the English for all our ills. I'm not sure the entire population is willing to take that collective leap though...

Edited May 14, 2021 by Spellczech

[Boris]

18 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Can you name any of the superb politicians just waiting in the wings to take control of Utopia? And, what do you think the current SNP politicians will do? Ride off into the sunset on their highland cattle? 

If Scotland became independent, the SNP would probably form the first govt, but I reckon once indy achieved the party would split.

All other parties would benefit to greater or less degrees. Main beneficiary would be Labour, imo, and reckon the Greens would also hold their own.

Free of Westminster, politics would fully focus on ourselves. If Scotland elected a tory-esque party, then do be it. That would happen eventually, but the political system would no doubt have consensus/coalition govts moving forward.

Which is kinda groovy in my book.

[Jeffros Furios]

7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why?  We keep getting told by nationalists that once independence is attained they'll all step away from politics. 

Could you imagine anyone in the private sector employing these  eejits ? 

[Jeffros Furios]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

@Jeffros Furios Paul Daniels moment!

😀  a slight exaggeration on my part ! 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Could you imagine anyone in the private sector employing these  eejits ? 

 

I'm sure they'll all be due huge pensions (although where the money to pay for them will come from is anyones guess) who it'll be a case of I'm alright Jack! 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I understand your viewpoint and respect your position. 

 

Can you contextualise 'their abysmal record' for me when we've had decades of a Governor general running Scotchland 

 

Why are you making up nonsense like this? 

[JackLadd]

55 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Some think Kate Forbes could be a potential leader , if that happened i would leave the country .

 

 

You better bring your piece box as the traffic out will be heavy. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by JackLadd

[maroonlegions]

Old bojo at it again.

 

 

 

 

MIRROR.CO.UK

Boris Johnson accused of breaking Covid rules with pint inside pub

 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Can you name any of the superb politicians just waiting in the wings to take control of Utopia? And, what do you think the current SNP politicians will do? Ride off into the sunset on their highland cattle? 

 

I'd love to see Mhairi Black in a prominent position, I like her a lot.

 

 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why?  We keep getting told by nationalists that once independence is attained they'll all step away from politics. 

No you don't, more disingenuous crap.

[Seymour M Hersh]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

No you don't, more disingenuous crap.

 

Bollox. That has been the chat on many occasions. The only egregious disingenuous crap is coming from you. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, Smithee said:

No you don't, more disingenuous crap.

Fair comment. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'd love to see Mhairi Black in a prominent position, I like her a lot.

 

 

 

 For what ffs? Threatening to put the heid on a tory? Actually that's probably your reasoning. 

[DETTY29]

The SNP have made many mistakes.

 

Like a lot.

 

But they have not been a total disaster and far from it, like some suggest.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Bollox. That has been the chat on many occasions. The only egregious disingenuous crap is coming from you. 

 

Aye bollocks, you're making stuff up. Do you think if you say it convincingly enough it'll become true?

 

If there are so many of these posts, quote 5 where it's been said that the SNP will all move away from politics.

 

You can't because they don't exist, so I guess I'll expect angry deflection and bullshit in reply.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 For what ffs? Threatening to put the heid on a tory? Actually that's probably your reasoning. 

She's talented, credible, educated, she cares about the common people of Scotland and she annoys just the right type of person.

 

Mhairi's fine by me, I'd trust her over Rees-Mogg or ****ing Gove any day.

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

She's talented, credible, educated, she cares about the common people of Scotland and she annoys just the right type of person.

 

Mhairi's fine by me, I'd trust her over Rees-Mogg or ****ing Gove any day.

Those 2 absolute charlatans are just an example, of many,  as to why I cannot fathom why people vote for the C&U party... Utterly unprincipled self serving vile creatures...

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

When has the SNP ever made a case for doing any of this though? Their economics is based on solely spending only and grabbing loads of oil money from somewhere to pay for it all...They've talked for 14 years about child poverty and done nothing. They've talked for 14 years about education and it has got worse. They've talked for 14 years about a fairer society but the only measure upon which it is fairer is against England, because they give more free stuff to people who don't contribute taxes...

 

They have it all back to front. They have to prove themselves capable in Govt before asking us to take a leap into the unknown. So far they've proved nothing and their excuses for accomplishing nothing is that they "haven't got the powers to affect social security" etc. It's a blame culture of the worst kind, which is why my mate thinks actually thinks Independence would be good because it would mean we cannot blame the English for all our ills. I'm not sure the entire population is willing to take that collective leap though...

 

I don't care how good or bad the SNP are.  Your point was that pursuing positive welfare policies and a sovereign wealth fund was "having your cake and eating it", and was impossible.  It's possible, and Norway shows that.  Scotland is capable of doing the same.  There is no golden rule that requires the SNP (or any other particular party) to be in power for that to happen.

 

The SNP is not Scotland, despite the delusional commentary of pro-union posters to suggest that it is.  It's a political party, same as any other party, and it has no monopoly of wisdom.  I hate to get pedantic at this point, but I have to.  You just said:

 

"They have to prove themselves capable in Govt before asking us to take a leap into the unknown. "

 

Do you have any idea how irrational that is?  Apologies, and genuinely no offence meant, but what you are proposing is both wrong-headed and impossible - for two reasons.  First, the idea that any country or state can prove itself capable of government before it has the independent authority to govern is simply irrational.  By definition, no place can prove it is capable of governing itself independently until it is independent.  No place can govern itself well or badly AT ALL until it is independent.  Anything else is a constitutional, institutional, legal and administrative impossibility.  Secondly, the SNP has neither the right nor the duty to govern, nor to govern well, in Scotland.  That is not a matter for the SNP or some political gurus to decide; it is a matter for the voters.  To suggest that the SNP is either obliged or entitled to run Scotland and prove that this can be done well is to assume that Scotland should be a one-party state.  You don't really think that - but it's convenient to say it because you think it gives you a killer argument against Scottish independence.  Well it doesn't.

[JackLadd]

Would be nice if Sturgeon thanked England for affording her the means to hand the NHS here a 4% wage hike., not to mention the £500 bonus she gave away. If she had to live within her means they'd be getting an IOU for their next salary.

[Unknown user]

43 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I don't care how good or bad the SNP are.  Your point was that pursuing positive welfare policies and a sovereign wealth fund was "having your cake and eating it", and was impossible.  It's possible, and Norway shows that.  Scotland is capable of doing the same.  There is no golden rule that requires the SNP (or any other particular party) to be in power for that to happen.

 

The SNP is not Scotland, despite the delusional commentary of pro-union posters to suggest that it is.  It's a political party, same as any other party, and it has no monopoly of wisdom.  I hate to get pedantic at this point, but I have to.  You just said:

 

"They have to prove themselves capable in Govt before asking us to take a leap into the unknown. "

 

Do you have any idea how irrational that is?  Apologies, and genuinely no offence meant, but what you are proposing is both wrong-headed and impossible - for two reasons.  First, the idea that any country or state can prove itself capable of government before it has the independent authority to govern is simply irrational.  By definition, no place can prove it is capable of governing itself independently until it is independent.  No place can govern itself well or badly AT ALL until it is independent.  Anything else is a constitutional, institutional, legal and administrative impossibility.  Secondly, the SNP has neither the right nor the duty to govern, nor to govern well, in Scotland.  That is not a matter for the SNP or some political gurus to decide; it is a matter for the voters.  To suggest that the SNP is either obliged or entitled to run Scotland and prove that this can be done well is to assume that Scotland should be a one-party state.  You don't really think that - but it's convenient to say it because you think it gives you a killer argument against Scottish independence.  Well it doesn't.

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I'd love to see Mhairi Black in a prominent position, I like her a lot.

 

 

Rough as old boots

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Rough as old boots

So?

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

So?

Not a great look as a representative of your country

[Unknown user]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Not a great look as a representative of your country

 

Never mind policies, beliefs, education, ability to remain uncowed, determination to help those without.

 

How does she look?