Cade Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 All that the Scottish Government wants is for Westminster to admit that Scotland has the right to call a referendum. They're not asking for a referendum at this minute. Obviously the Scottish Government won't call a referendum until it's sure it will win. Which is why Westminster will want to retain it's insane Veto. Because Westminster hates democracy and is desperate for power simply for the sake of having power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cade said: All that the Scottish Government wants is for Westminster to admit that Scotland has the right to call a referendum. They're not asking for a referendum at this minute. Obviously the Scottish Government won't call a referendum until it's sure it will win. Which is why Westminster will want to retain it's insane Veto. Because Westminster hates democracy and is desperate for power simply for the sake of having power. The UK Gov are being held by the short and curlies, if the refuse it, support for Indy goes through the roof, if they accept it, the Scottish government decide when it happens and as you say, will call it when support is high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Cruyff said: The UK Gov are being held by the short and curlies, if the refuse it, support for Indy goes through the roof, if they accept it, the Scottish government decide when it happens and as you say, will call it when support is high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 hours ago, redjambo said: True, and I may well have agreed with you until Brexit introduced a significant and material change to the situation of the UK and thereby of its constituent nations, despite the people of Scotland voting against the withdrawal from the EU. We were taken out of the EU against our will and that is enough of a ground change to merit a further decision on whether we should remain or not within the new setup. Brexit was the exact same thing. UKIP wouldn't have disappeared until they got it. Tories would've torn themselves apart. Instead UKIP and Eurosceptic Tories won and instead Labour torn itself to pieces as the Westminster party went the same way as Scottish Labour... But 2 wrongs don't make a right. For us to react to Brexit by leaving the UK union only to sign up to the EU is just a nonsense. The ONLY benefit of leaving the 1707 union is that Scots would no longer have the right to maintain a big collective chip in our shoulder about the English. Sell out to the EU immediately and we make utter fools of ourselves... For the record I voted no to independence in 2014, no to Brexit and would again vote no to indyref 2 if it did happen. Basis for all these votes is that the World is globalised and it serves no purpose to be small and on the outside. If the outcomes are unknown the only sensible vote is for the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 hours ago, jamboy1982 said: The good Friday agreement states a generation is 7 years. Pretty sure the uk government are involved in that. I want nothing to do with the cesspool that is Irish politics. I prefer my rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Cruyff said: The UK Gov are being held by the short and curlies, if the refuse it, support for Indy goes through the roof, if they accept it, the Scottish government decide when it happens and as you say, will call it when support is high. Who's going to suddenly support what could well be an economic catastrophe, amongst many other things, putting their standard of living, mortgage, pension at risk just because of a petted lip due to the PM not giving them their way?? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy1982 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I want nothing to do with the cesspool that is Irish politics. I prefer my rationale. Whether you want anything to do with it doesn’t matter. The uk government have a set agreement where they have stated that a generation is 7 years. This must remain the same when dealing with all nations. Not that it matters as ‘once in a generation’ is a lot of bs anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Brexit was the exact same thing. UKIP wouldn't have disappeared until they got it. Tories would've torn themselves apart. Instead UKIP and Eurosceptic Tories won and instead Labour torn itself to pieces as the Westminster party went the same way as Scottish Labour... But 2 wrongs don't make a right. For us to react to Brexit by leaving the UK union only to sign up to the EU is just a nonsense. The ONLY benefit of leaving the 1707 union is that Scots would no longer have the right to maintain a big collective chip in our shoulder about the English. Sell out to the EU immediately and we make utter fools of ourselves... For the record I voted no to independence in 2014, no to Brexit and would again vote no to indyref 2 if it did happen. Basis for all these votes is that the World is globalised and it serves no purpose to be small and on the outside. If the outcomes are unknown the only sensible vote is for the status quo. I agree about Europe after independence. A survey done in Norway had three quarters of the population saying they’d vote no to join the EU. That from about the richest country in Europe. Of course, that means I don’t agree with your last paragraph. It serves the Norwegians quite well being small and on the outside. Pretty damn well actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Never mind rise and fall I think they have plateaued still relying on the Greens to prop them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boab said: I agree about Europe after independence. A survey done in Norway had three quarters of the population saying they’d vote no to join the EU. That from about the richest country in Europe. Of course, that means I don’t agree with your last paragraph. It serves the Norwegians quite well being small and on the outside. Pretty damn well actually. Isn't that mainly because they're about the richest country in Europe though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Boy Daniel said: Never mind rise and fall I think they have plateaued still relying on the Greens to prop them up. The highest vote ever recorded in Scottish elections mate, I don't know what you're looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Smithee said: Isn't that mainly because they're about the richest country in Europe though? Yes, of course. They’ve done quite well( bad pun !) with the old black gold. According to who you believe, Scotland may or may not replicate that wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: The highest vote ever recorded in Scottish elections mate, I don't know what you're looking at. The number of seats in Holyrood. The party finished on 64 seats - one short of a majority but one more than it won in 2016. That’s what I’m looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Who's going to suddenly support what could well be an economic catastrophe, amongst many other things, putting their standard of living, mortgage, pension at risk just because of a petted lip due to the PM not giving them their way?? Seriously? Believe it or not, we've lived through a number of recessions, Brexit and a worldwide virus outbreak in the last 20 years. Guess what? Not much has changed. Fear mongering the impending doom of Scotland becoming Independent just isn't going to cut it anymore. Barrel scraping excuses at best now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: The number of seats in Holyrood. The party finished on 64 seats - one short of a majority but one more than it won in 2016. That’s what I’m looking at. You make the second best result the SNP has ever had sound like it was a negative. It's a hell of an impressive result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: The number of seats in Holyrood. The party finished on 64 seats - one short of a majority but one more than it won in 2016. That’s what I’m looking at. So a rise then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said: Whether you want anything to do with it doesn’t matter. The uk government have a set agreement where they have stated that a generation is 7 years. This must remain the same when dealing with all nations. Not that it matters as ‘once in a generation’ is a lot of bs anyway "Once in a generation" was a quote made by Sturgeon, nobody in UK Govt...But you crack on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, Boab said: I agree about Europe after independence. A survey done in Norway had three quarters of the population saying they’d vote no to join the EU. That from about the richest country in Europe. Of course, that means I don’t agree with your last paragraph. It serves the Norwegians quite well being small and on the outside. Pretty damn well actually. Yep but why? Because they had the sense and foresight to stick their oil revenues in a national pension pot. Our SNP Govt would splurge it on social policy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Smithee said: You make the second best result the SNP has ever had sound like it was a negative. It's a hell of an impressive result. Im only seeing as it is. They only increased the seats by one. If it wasn’t for the Greens they would be a minority government. There was an historic number of voters over all and yes more people voted SNP this time but sadly it didn’t reflect in a majority win for the SNP. So in that sense nothing much has changed from last year. Maybe the voting system is wrong, I’m no expert when it comes to that sort of thing. I just call it how I see it, they are aren't making enough ground in seat numbers to make a material difference on being able to go it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: But 2 wrongs don't make a right. For us to react to Brexit by leaving the UK union only to sign up to the EU is just a nonsense. The ONLY benefit of leaving the 1707 union is that Scots would no longer have the right to maintain a big collective chip in our shoulder about the English. Sell out to the EU immediately and we make utter fools of ourselves... Absolute drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Boy Daniel said: Im only seeing as it is. They only increased the seats by one. If it wasn’t for the Greens they would be a minority government. There was an historic number of voters over all and yes more people voted SNP this time but sadly it didn’t reflect in a majority win for the SNP. So in that sense nothing much has changed from last year. Maybe the voting system is wrong, I’m no expert when it comes to that sort of thing. I just call it how I see it, they are aren't making enough ground in seat numbers to make a material difference on being able to go it alone. They won't be a minority government if they put a member of the opposition in as presiding officer, which they will. They were a minority government a week ago, but won't be when parliament reconvenes. It's a minor point but reflective of a better result than last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Spellczech said: "Once in a generation" was a quote made by Sturgeon, nobody in UK Govt...But you crack on! Think it may have been Salmond, but it was a throw away comment on the hustings... Not a policy statement... But I suspect that you may know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Yep but why? Because they had the sense and foresight to stick their oil revenues in a national pension pot. Our SNP Govt would splurge it on social policy... So they’re doing ok as a small nation, outside the EU ? Doesn’t fit with your globalised comment. It serves every purpose for Norway. It would do so for Scotland also. The status quo is not a sensible vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Absolute drivel. Not the strongest critique I've ever received on here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Boab said: So a rise then ? Yes a rise of one. Wow one! now if it had been ten then that be a rise worth getting excited about. Ten (or some more significant number than one) would give more umph to the Indy cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Spellczech said: "Once in a generation" was a quote made by Sturgeon, nobody in UK Govt...But you crack on! He didn't say otherwise, I think he's saying that the UK government have defined a generation as 7 years. I don't know if that's true or not but I think you're picking him up wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Boy Daniel said: Yes a rise of one. Wow one! now if it had been ten then that be a rise worth getting excited about. Ten (or some more significant number than one) would give more umph to the Indy cause. Do you know how many votes would have been needed to get another ten? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: Not the strongest critique I've ever received on here... It was all your dreary rubbish merited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: They won't be a minority government if they put a member of the opposition in as presiding officer, which they will. They were a minority government a week ago, but won't be when parliament reconvenes. It's a minor point but reflective of a better result than last time. They can do that but if it’s an even vote count then the preceding officer has the casting vote. So it may not work in the SNPs favour every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Boy Daniel said: Yes a rise of one. Wow one! now if it had been ten then that be a rise worth getting excited about. Ten (or some more significant number than one) would give more umph to the Indy cause. Try and spin it anyway you wish but they handed the other parties their baws on a plate. It’s only because of the voting system that it wasn’t even more stark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Boy Daniel said: They can do that but if it’s an even vote count then the preceding officer has the casting vote. So it may not work in the SNPs favour every time. That's not the point - they officially won't be a minority government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Think it may have been Salmond, but it was a throw away comment on the hustings... Not a policy statement... But I suspect that you may know this. Sorry, it was actually stated in the White Paper, Scotland's Future. I've attached a copy of it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Boab said: Try and spin it anyway you wish but they handed the other parties their baws on a plate. It’s only because of the voting system that it wasn’t even more stark. There it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Smithee said: Do you know how many votes would have been needed to get another ten? I have no idea it was just a number I chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Think it may have been Salmond, but it was a throw away comment on the hustings... Not a policy statement... But I suspect that you may know this. He and his like know it full well. Its practically the only argument they have left. Strange lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Boab said: So they’re doing ok as a small nation, outside the EU ? Doesn’t fit with your globalised comment. It serves every purpose for Norway. It would do so for Scotland also. The status quo is not a sensible vote. ?They planted the seeds of that success 30-40 years ago before Globalisation happened. Even if the SNP could tear up the contracts and grab some revenue it would be left with the deep drill oil which we all know Scotland leads the World in - unfortunately the people who have that expertise get tempted away to other parts of the globe every time the oil price dips...The SNP wants to have its cake and eat it - run a left wing social policy AND save money for the nation's future like Norway? I don't think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Boab said: Try and spin it anyway you wish but they handed the other parties their baws on a plate. It’s only because of the voting system that it wasn’t even more stark. The voting system is wrong in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: It was all your dreary rubbish merited. I get you. You had little to say, so you said little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, pablo said: Sorry, it was actually stated in the White Paper, Scotland's Future. I've attached a copy of it for you. Silence of the bams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: That's not the point - they officially won't be a minority government. That is true. Now we have to wait and see which party the PO comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Spellczech said: I get you. You had little to say, so you said little. Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Boy Daniel said: The voting system is wrong in that case. It is. I think I read somewhere that had we been using FOTP and the parliament was as big as the UK, the Nats would have a majority of 475 or something. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, pablo said: Sorry, it was actually stated in the White Paper, Scotland's Future. I've attached a copy of it for you. What does that actually mean now, when Vote No to Stay in the EU was one of the major arguments FOR the union? Are we only holding one said to a rigid interpretation of what was said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: He didn't say otherwise, I think he's saying that the UK government have defined a generation as 7 years. I don't know if that's true or not but I think you're picking him up wrong. How so? I quoted Sturgeon, and he talked about UK Govt setting a precedent in Ireland? Sturgeon tied her own hands - I don't need to look at Ireland to decide what a generation should be, and 7 years ain't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: Im only seeing as it is. They only increased the seats by one. If it wasn’t for the Greens they would be a minority government. There was an historic number of voters over all and yes more people voted SNP this time but sadly it didn’t reflect in a majority win for the SNP. So in that sense nothing much has changed from last year. Maybe the voting system is wrong, I’m no expert when it comes to that sort of thing. I just call it how I see it, they are aren't making enough ground in seat numbers to make a material difference on being able to go it alone. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Spellczech said: ?They planted the seeds of that success 30-40 years ago before Globalisation happened. Even if the SNP could tear up the contracts and grab some revenue it would be left with the deep drill oil which we all know Scotland leads the World in - unfortunately the people who have that expertise get tempted away to other parts of the globe every time the oil price dips...The SNP wants to have its cake and eat it - run a left wing social policy AND save money for the nation's future like Norway? I don't think so... Don’t agree. People don’t believe the lies from Westminster any more and the votes prove it. Anyhoo Juve v Milan on now. As big a game in Serie A all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Yeah. So you took us down a dead end. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: How so? I quoted Sturgeon, and he talked about UK Govt setting a precedent in Ireland? Sturgeon tied her own hands - I don't need to look at Ireland to decide what a generation should be, and 7 years ain't it... Ah well, thankfully they have enough MSPs and don't need your permission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Boab said: It is. I think I read somewhere that had we been using FOTP and the parliament was as big as the UK, the Nats would have a majority of 475 or something. 👍 It’s something that needs to be looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Just now, Smithee said: Ah well, thankfully they have enough MSPs and don't need your permission They don't. They need the Greens, who are the closest to Communists that we get in Scottish politics...Wahey! Or they've just set out their stall to be the balance of power, the kingmakers, perhaps...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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