We are not alone.... Maybe.

[Ulysses]

6 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Google David Grusch, Ryan Graves, David Fravor, Ross Coulthart, Tim Burchett and take a look. Just a small ‘taster’.

 

Ah.

 

So when you said

 

15 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

What has been made abundantly clear in recent weeks....

 

what you meant was

 

15 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

What has been said by several people I watch on YouTube....

 

That's not quite the same.  They may well have said things, and you may well agree with those things, but opinions aren't evidence.  I'm with @Maple Leaf on this one.  

 

 

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Ah.

 

So when you said

 

 

what you meant was

 

 

That's not quite the same.  They may well have said things, and you may well agree with those things, but opinions aren't evidence.  I'm with @Maple Leaf on this one.  

 

 

 

I looked up just one of the suggested sources David Grusch, this what just the wiki article says about him, the article is titled 'David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims'

 

Here's just one commentary from the relevant experts, or are they all in on a cover up?

 

Joshua Semeter of NASA's UAP independent study team and professor of electrical and computer engineering with Boston University's College of Engineering concludes that "without data or material evidence, we are at an impasse on evaluating these claims" and that, "in the long history of claims of extraterrestrial visitors, it is this level of specificity that always seems to be missing"

Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships"

Frank also said of the Grusch account that "it's an extraordinary claim, and it requires extraordinary evidence, none of which we're getting", adding "show me the spaceship"

 

Wiki article

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims 

Edited August 11, 2023 by JFK-1

[Unknown user]

Considering they travel light years through space, having the technology to remain hidden from human agency when they arrive, how have they crashed 120+ spacecraft? 

[Lovecraft]

27 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Considering they travel light years through space, having the technology to remain hidden from human agency when they arrive, how have they crashed 120+ spacecraft? 

They come here just to get high on our oxygen levels.

 

It's alien teens.  Most UFO crashes are on a Saturday night.

 

 

[Ulysses]

Occam's Razor being effectively applied there by @JFK-1, @Smithee and @Lovecraft.

 

The problem with believing in aliens is the same as the problem with believing in gods.  In order for it to work, you have to make at least one assumption too many.

[Lovecraft]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Occam's Razor being effectively applied there by @JFK-1, @Smithee and @Lovecraft.

 

The problem with believing in aliens is the same as the problem with believing in gods.  In order for it to work, you have to make at least one assumption too many.

Yeah, It's just a modern variation of religion IMO.

 

Don't believe in gods as that's just stupid and outdated.... but do believe in aliens coming to visit us as we are so important...

 

 

[Lovecraft]

13 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

That possibility can't be ruled out.

 

Remember the crop circle nonsense?  And the "alien landing ground" that is known as the Nazca lines?

 

It's a logical fallacy that because many people are saying something, or many people believe something, it must be true.

I've been to Nazca and seen the lines.  They know exactly what they are, who made them and how they done it.

 

It just people lap up what they want to hear and TV shows give them what the want to see.

 

People that believe in religions go to the place of worship that will speak about that specific version, people that believe in aliens watch the History Channel.  😉

 

 

[Ulysses]

21 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

Yeah, It's just a modern variation of religion IMO.

 

 

Yep.  I've a pal who believes (loosely) in UFOs who actually said to me "you have to believe in something."

[Lovecraft]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yep.  I've a pal who believes (loosely) in UFOs who actually said to me "you have to believe in something."

 

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 

Nice marmot

[Greedy Jambo]

22 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

💸

 

If it was one big lie to make money, I'd have expected at least one person to come out and say, look, this is all bollocks, I've been asked to risk my whole career to talk lies in front of a camera for 5 grand. 

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

If it was one big lie to make money, I'd have expected at least one person to come out and say, look, this is all bollocks, I've been asked to risk my whole career to talk lies in front of a camera for 5 grand. 

 

5 grand, and paid appearances on the circuit for the rest of your days.

[JFK-1]

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yep.  I've a pal who believes (loosely) in UFOs who actually said to me "you have to believe in something."

 

He's right, but it's facts we have to believe in, not pleasant fantasies.

[Ked]

12 hours ago, Smithee said:

Considering they travel light years through space, having the technology to remain hidden from human agency when they arrive, how have they crashed 120+ spacecraft? 

Perhaps there's an economic boom and more aliens have the dosh to take holidays.

Hopefully they don't start hunting trips.

 

 

The dna in meteors billions on years ago is our dna.

It gave us our brains.

Read some stuff not sure where but maybe we with our consciousness validate the universe.

A tell ye mate even what we think we know is vast beyond comprehension.

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yep.  I've a pal who believes (loosely) in UFOs who actually said to me "you have to believe in something."

Don't you believe in something though?

Even though you can't comprehend what we think we know?

Every theory has to be backed.

If we know anything it's that certainty is controlled .

 

 

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

If it was one big lie to make money, I'd have expected at least one person to come out and say, look, this is all bollocks, I've been asked to risk my whole career to talk lies in front of a camera for 5 grand. 

 

Hs anybody come out and said i'm hawking this moon conspiracy shite despite it being bollocks because it's a nice little earner? Anybody said that? No they haven't and the reason for that is it is bollocks and it is a nice little earner. 

 

And if one did say it you would probably say well now he's lying. 🤣

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

He's right, but it's facts we have to believe in, not pleasant fantasies.

 

And there's the thing.  You don't have to believe in facts.  They're facts.  Which means, with inexorable logic, that if you have to believe in it for it to be real, then it can't be real.  The truth is usually right in front of us.

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

Don't you believe in something though?

 

 

What does that mean, though?  

 

We're here, and here is both hard enough and wonderful enough to be just that - enough.  We don't need super-beings, or supernatural things, or ghosts, ghouls, fairy folk and spooks, or horror stories or mysteries or conspiracies.  They're amusing and fun stories to tell ourselves sometimes, and they are a great testament to the human imagination, but we have absolutely no need of them at all.  We make them up because we can.

 

The universe is a fantastic, beautiful, challenging and meaningful place without needing to make up magic and add it to the mix.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

Every theory has to be backed.

 

 

The theories of the origin of the universe, the origin of this planet, the origin of life and the emergence of humanity are all backed.  We can set out the hypotheses, test them, do the sums, recreate them and get the expected results reliably every time.  From time to time the theories get added to and refined as more is learned, and no doubt that will happen into the future.  Some of them may one day end up looking quite different to what they look like today - if the facts emerge to make changes happen.

 

The gods and ghouls and ghosts?  Nope.  They're not backed at all.  We can't set out the hypotheses, we can't test them, we can't do the sums or recreate them.  We can't get the expected results, and frankly almost 100% of the time there is no such thing as an expected result.  If you can't do those things, you don't have facts.  You don't have theories.  You have notions and dreams.  

[Greedy Jambo]

We should all just read the stale old science books again and pretend that we're clever. 

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

What does that mean, though?  

 

We're here, and here is both hard enough and wonderful enough to be just that - enough.  We don't need super-beings, or supernatural things, or ghosts, ghouls, fairy folk and spooks, or horror stories or mysteries or conspiracies.  They're amusing and fun stories to tell ourselves sometimes, and they are a great testament to the human imagination, but we have absolutely no need of them at all.  We make them up because we can.

 

The universe is a fantastic, beautiful, challenging and meaningful place without needing to make up magic and add it to the mix.

 

 

 

The theories of the origin of the universe, the origin of this planet, the origin of life and the emergence of humanity are all backed.  We can set out the hypotheses, test them, do the sums, recreate them and get the expected results reliably every time.  From time to time the theories get added to and refined as more is learned, and no doubt that will happen into the future.  Some of them may one day end up looking quite different to what they look like today - if the facts emerge to make changes happen.

 

The gods and ghouls and ghosts?  Nope.  They're not backed at all.  We can't set out the hypotheses, we can't test them, we can't do the sums or recreate them.  We can't get the expected results, and frankly almost 100% of the time there is no such thing as an expected result.  If you can't do those things, you don't have facts.  You don't have theories.  You have notions and dreams.  

We are here.

It's beyond wonder what we know.

But you believe in something that won't be true.

It might prove to be the last truth we know .The universe we know we can't comprehend .

We still can't fully understand time itself.

 

BTW I've not got a clue what my point is.

But its good tae talk shite .

It doesn't seem so serious on these threads.

😄

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

We should all just read the stale old science books again and pretend that we're clever. 

 

Again?  AGAIN?  Spoofer.   

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

We are here.

It's beyond wonder what we know.

But you believe in something that won't be true.

It might prove to be the last truth we know .The universe we know we can't comprehend .

We still can't fully understand time itself.

 

BTW I've not got a clue what my point is.

But its good tae talk shite .

It doesn't seem so serious on these threads.

😄

 

It's true, though.  If you have to believe in it, that means it can't be true.  We can even use science to explain why things like personal faith and organised religion were created by humans.  And the trouble with seeing the reality is that once you do, you can't unsee it.  The truth might change and evolve as you learn new stuff, but once you see that gods and ghosts are fake there's no going back. Gods and ghosts don't make the universe any better, more meaningful or more beautiful.  More than that, they make it worse, less meaningful, and uglier.  That's why they don't exist, because they could only exist if the universe was fundamentally different to the way it is - and if that was the case we wouldn't be here to talk shite about it.  However, the thoughts and imaginings humans have of gods and ghosts do (or at least can) make the universe better, more meaningful and/or more beautiful.  That doesn't happen for everyone, and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens often enough to make it worthwhile for a lot of people to believe.  So if they believe, but they don't expect others to agree with them, that's cool.  The trouble is, of course, that some feckers can't leave well enough alone, and instead insist on doing others down because they don't agree with them.  

 

As for aliens?  Well, god and ghosts are easy to debunk, because they have less and less plausibility as time goes by.  But aliens are a whole new ballgame.  You can mash up science and sci-fi to your heart's content, throw in endless hours of "really interesting" YouTube videos made by people with plausible names, plausible CVs and plausible notions, and persuade yourself it's a coherent theory, and altogether much more contemporary and "sciency" than that oul' religious bollox.  But it ain't.  Why?  Because as soon as you read a half-decent science book or paper, or get yourself a few calculation skills, the whole thing falls apart like Hibs' away form after Xmas.  So rather than read the real stuff - which takes a lot of time and effort - it's easier to, y'know, "do your own research" by watching another load of those "really interesting" YouTube videos, and on and on the cycle goes.  It's just another form of church, but this time a version you can do from the comfort of your own sofa and where no-one yells at you about all that yucky sin and eternal damnation stuff.  It's little wonder some people find it attractive.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

It's true, though.  If you have to believe in it, that means it can't be true.  We can even use science to explain why things like personal faith and organised religion were created by humans.  And the trouble with seeing the reality is that once you do, you can't unsee it.  The truth might change and evolve as you learn new stuff, but once you see that gods and ghosts are fake there's no going back. Gods and ghosts don't make the universe any better, more meaningful or more beautiful.  More than that, they make it worse, less meaningful, and uglier.  That's why they don't exist, because they could only exist if the universe was fundamentally different to the way it is - and if that was the case we wouldn't be here to talk shite about it.  However, the thoughts and imaginings humans have of gods and ghosts do (or at least can) make the universe better, more meaningful and/or more beautiful.  That doesn't happen for everyone, and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens often enough to make it worthwhile for a lot of people to believe.  So if they believe, but they don't expect others to agree with them, that's cool.  The trouble is, of course, that some feckers can't leave well enough alone, and instead insist on doing others down because they don't agree with them.  

 

As for aliens?  Well, god and ghosts are easy to debunk, because they have less and less plausibility as time goes by.  But aliens are a whole new ballgame.  You can mash up science and sci-fi to your heart's content, throw in endless hours of "really interesting" YouTube videos made by people with plausible names, plausible CVs and plausible notions, and persuade yourself it's a coherent theory, and altogether much more contemporary and "sciency" than that oul' religious bollox.  But it ain't.  Why?  Because as soon as you read a half-decent science book or paper, or get yourself a few calculation skills, the whole thing falls apart like Hibs' away form after Xmas.  So rather than read the real stuff - which takes a lot of time and effort - it's easier to, y'know, "do your own research" by watching another load of those "really interesting" YouTube videos, and on and on the cycle goes.  It's just another form of church, but this time a version you can do from the comfort of your own sofa and where no-one yells at you about all that yucky sin and eternal damnation stuff.  It's little wonder some people find it attractive.

So planet formation? Violent collision or calm cluster? Both don't fit the outer planets, so what is the guess for them 'They formed outside and moved closer' Aye, that'll work. 🤟

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

How/Why does only a 3rd of planetary systems like our solar system have circular orbits, when this is supposed to be the rule. 🤔 

.

Edited August 12, 2023 by ri Alban

[rudi must stay]

A world without people would be a lonely world

[WorldChampions1902]

Professor Garry Nolan of Stanford University. Impeccable credentials, including working with the CIA on researching the physiological effects on those who have come into direct contact with alien craft. Quote, “100% Aliens have already arrived”.

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by WorldChampions1902

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Professor Garry Nolan of Stanford University. Impeccable credentials, including working with the CIA on researching the physiological effects on those who have come into direct contact with alien craft. Quote, “100% Aliens have already arrived”.

 

 

 

 

Impeccable credentials when it comes to cancer immunotherapy by the looks of it.

That's me sold.

[WorldChampions1902]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Impeccable credentials when it comes to cancer immunotherapy by the looks of it.

That's me sold.

Given that his interview lasts 18 mins and you responded within 4 minutes, illustrates that you didn’t listen to everything he had to say. At least you’re consistent.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Professor Garry Nolan of Stanford University. Impeccable credentials, including working with the CIA on researching the physiological effects on those who have come into direct contact with alien craft. Quote, “100% Aliens have already arrived”.

 

 

 

 

So no relevant qualifications, then.  Fair enough.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Given that his interview lasts 18 mins and you responded within 4 minutes, illustrates that you didn’t listen to everything he had to say. At least you’re consistent.

 

I didn't listen to anything, I looked him up. Maybe you should have.

 

Tell me about these impeccable credentials.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

I didn't listen to anything, I looked him up. Maybe you should have.

 

Tell me about these impeccable credentials.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. That very phrase confirms that your mind is made up on this subject. Which is perfectly fine. Should your position change, then feel free to research further.

[Unknown user]

Just now, WorldChampions1902 said:

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. That very phrase confirms that your mind is made up on this subject. Which is perfectly fine. Should your position change, then feel free to research further.

 

Eh? I started from the top mate.

 

"Professor Garry Nolan of Stanford University. Impeccable credentials"

 

Tell me about these impeccable credentials, cos all I found were irrelevant ones.

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. That very phrase confirms that your mind is made up on this subject. Which is perfectly fine. Should your position change, then feel free to research further.

 

Eh, no, he's absolutely right, and his approach wins on the grounds of both effectiveness and efficiency.

 

Time spent watching a video is time you'll never get back, so use it wisely and efficiently.  Before watching, check the credentials and the quality of the people whose views are being aired.

 

Looking up the details takes a short time at most.  Et voilà!  The guy is about as qualified on the matter as a brain surgeon, a carpenter, or me.

 

So we save time and score on efficiency, AND we avoid hearing some unqualified person going on at length and failing to add value to what we know, so we also score on effectiveness.

 

It's called doing one's own research, and you know it makes sense.

[Lovecraft]

Here is what you should be watching.

 

 

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. That very phrase confirms that your mind is made up on this subject. Which is perfectly fine. Should your position change, then feel free to research further.

 

Btw, a bit ironic you having a pop over my mind being made up on the subject!

[Ked]

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

It's true, though.  If you have to believe in it, that means it can't be true.  We can even use science to explain why things like personal faith and organised religion were created by humans.  And the trouble with seeing the reality is that once you do, you can't unsee it.  The truth might change and evolve as you learn new stuff, but once you see that gods and ghosts are fake there's no going back. Gods and ghosts don't make the universe any better, more meaningful or more beautiful.  More than that, they make it worse, less meaningful, and uglier.  That's why they don't exist, because they could only exist if the universe was fundamentally different to the way it is - and if that was the case we wouldn't be here to talk shite about it.  However, the thoughts and imaginings humans have of gods and ghosts do (or at least can) make the universe better, more meaningful and/or more beautiful.  That doesn't happen for everyone, and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens often enough to make it worthwhile for a lot of people to believe.  So if they believe, but they don't expect others to agree with them, that's cool.  The trouble is, of course, that some feckers can't leave well enough alone, and instead insist on doing others down because they don't agree with them.  

 

As for aliens?  Well, god and ghosts are easy to debunk, because they have less and less plausibility as time goes by.  But aliens are a whole new ballgame.  You can mash up science and sci-fi to your heart's content, throw in endless hours of "really interesting" YouTube videos made by people with plausible names, plausible CVs and plausible notions, and persuade yourself it's a coherent theory, and altogether much more contemporary and "sciency" than that oul' religious bollox.  But it ain't.  Why?  Because as soon as you read a half-decent science book or paper, or get yourself a few calculation skills, the whole thing falls apart like Hibs' away form after Xmas.  So rather than read the real stuff - which takes a lot of time and effort - it's easier to, y'know, "do your own research" by watching another load of those "really interesting" YouTube videos, and on and on the cycle goes.  It's just another form of church, but this time a version you can do from the comfort of your own sofa and where no-one yells at you about all that yucky sin and eternal damnation stuff.  It's little wonder some people find it attractive.

Comfort of your own sofa has been godsent.

Proof if ever ...😄

[Greedy Jambo]

Thoughts on Linda Moulton Howe?

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJpjALRK/

 

[Maple Leaf]

20 hours ago, Ked said:

 

 

 

The dna in meteors billions on years ago is our dna.

It gave us our brains.

 

 

 

I don't mean to be picky, but I think you're referring to meteorites, and I can say with certainty that no extra-terrestrial DNA has ever been found on a meteorite.

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I don't mean to be picky, but I think you're referring to meteorites, and I can say with certainty that no extra-terrestrial DNA has ever been found on a meteorite.

It OK my posts have been a wee bit sketchy.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/april/meteorites-could-have-brought-dna-precursors-earth.html#:~:text=Meteorites could have been responsible,the origin of life itself.

 

I'm not suggesting Alien life seeded our planet.

More the timing of it all and the coming together of conditions to get to where we are now.

Factually it's amazing as itself as you and Uly rightly point out.

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Thoughts on Linda Moulton Howe?

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJpjALRK/

 

 

What are yours?

 

In your own words. 

[Maple Leaf]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

It OK my posts have been a wee bit sketchy.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/april/meteorites-could-have-brought-dna-precursors-earth.html#:~:text=Meteorites could have been responsible,the origin of life itself.

 

I'm not suggesting Alien life seeded our planet.

More the timing of it all and the coming together of conditions to get to where we are now.

Factually it's amazing as itself as you and Uly rightly point out.

One of the biggest questions in science, and one that might never be answered; what made the first replicating molecule on earth replicate?  It's certainly possible that something hitched a ride on a meteorite, but that only pushes the question out a bit:  what made it start there?

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

What are yours?

 

In your own words. 

 

I've always thought that she was a nutcase, but with all the stuff that is coming out now, it would be worth revisiting some of her claims. 

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

One of the biggest questions in science, and one that might never be answered; what made the first replicating molecule on earth replicate?  It's certainly possible that something hitched a ride on a meteorite, but that only pushes the question out a bit:  what made it start there?

That me and you can even think and discuss that is what's mind blowing as much as anything.

And hey you should see some of the theories I come up with but would never post. 

🤪

[Maple Leaf]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

That me and you can even think and discuss that is what's mind blowing as much as anything.

And hey you should see some of the theories I come up with but would never post. 

🤪

I wonder what chimpanzees or giraffes think about, apart from surviving and copulating?  Do they look up at those lights in the night sky and think about alien chimpanzees and giraffes?

[WorldChampions1902]

18 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I've always thought that she was a nutcase, but with all the stuff that is coming out now, it would be worth revisiting some of her claims. 

When the dust on the US Congress hearings finally settles, that will be true of so many claims, from so many other people. It’s going to be very interesting indeed.
 

Can’t say l’m happy about those guilty of serious misdemeanours (to conceal the truth) being offered an amnesty though, as is being suggested.

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

When the dust on the US Congress hearings finally settles, that will be true of so many claims, from so many other people. It’s going to be very interesting indeed.
 

Can’t say l’m happy about those guilty of serious misdemeanours (to conceal the truth) being offered an amnesty though, as is being suggested.

 

And when all that doesn’t happen you will still be a believer?

[WorldChampions1902]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

And when all that doesn’t happen you will still be a believer?

When what doesn’t happen?

[JFK-1]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

When what doesn’t happen?

 

There will e no evidence of aliens coming out of congress, coming out of anything at all because there is no evidence. Absolutely nothing.

 

Tell me something, do you think ptesidents are told about these aliens you think are real?

[Greedy Jambo]

Presidents are regarded as part-time employees. 

Why would you tell someone on a 4 year contract all of your secrets?

 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

There will e no evidence of aliens coming out of congress, coming out of anything at all because there is no evidence. Absolutely nothing.

 

Tell me something, do you think ptesidents are told about these aliens you think are real?

If what has been reported over the years is accurate, those US Presidents that ask that question are “read in” to a degree on the topic. But is it true?
 

The head of the US Navy, James Forrestal died in suspicious circumstances in 1949 and allegedly shared much of his UFO knowledge with your namesake JFK. So it would seem that Kennedy knew about this topic long before he even became President if what has been reported is accurate.
 

Fast forward to today and the respected journo Ross Coulthart is saying that his highly-placed sources have revealed that Donald Trump was also read in at his own insistence. Coulthart has also stated that despite Jimmy Carters denials, he too has been briefed on this.

[JFK-1]

10 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

If what has been reported over the years is accurate, those US Presidents that ask that question are “read in” to a degree on the topic. But is it true?
 

The head of the US Navy, James Forrestal died in suspicious circumstances in 1949 and allegedly shared much of his UFO knowledge with your namesake JFK. So it would seem that Kennedy knew about this topic long before he even became President if what has been reported is accurate.
 

Fast forward to today and the respected journo Ross Coulthart is saying that his highly-placed sources have revealed that Donald Trump was also read in at his own insistence. Coulthart has also stated that despite Jimmy Carters denials, he too has been briefed on this.

 

So it's just more of he said this and somebody else said that. And you believe something like Trump could know this stuff and keep his stupid heading to jail mouth shut?

 

About the biggest secret in human history? We're definitely not on the same page here when it comes to plausible far less believable evidence.