Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

I've been called both. ☹️

Then you are a twit mate.

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, FWJ said:

From extrapolating the numbers who have already died from it as a percentage of the number of people who have had it.

If it kills 1% of the population that’s 650,000 in the UK.

No one knows how many have had it.

[The Real Maroonblood]

30 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

There is a Scottish election coming soon. Hopefully people opin Scotland will remember who put the country into this state. Covid part of reason but horrific government decision making has made situation far worse. Get her and her party out.

[FWJ]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

No one knows how many have had it.

Nope, there’s a lot we don’t know.

 

You wouldn’t know that from reading this this thread though.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Presume you will not be suffering job loss or home loss then. The followers just can't help lapping up whatever Nicola says.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Presume you will not be suffering job loss or home loss then. The followers just can't help lapping up whatever Nicola says.

I’ve not agreed with a lot what has happened and this particular decision is a lot of shite but I’m not going to spit the dummy and try and vote them out.

[Pans Jambo]

Also, on reflection, allowing student to mass in the halls wasn't a great idea. 

 

No idea why the majority cant study at home.

[Heartsmad1874]

37 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Is she banning alcohol being bought from shops as well?

Rex Banner is waiting in the wings

[Robbo-Jambo]

16 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said:

 

You are a 100% certified crackpot. 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

I know you won't see it or agree, but your logic is flawed. It's not the SNP's fault, it would be no different if they were not the party in power, just look around Europe and see the restrictions that are in place or are being discussed being out in place, look at other parts of the UK and see what is happening there.

 

This has nothing to do with Scottish Constitutional Politics.

Spot on.

[FWJ]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

The 1% mortality rate was model rate at the start. It’s actually less than that, according to the WHO its 0.6%. There are other views it’s lower than that, 
 

Though in reality the mortality rate fluctuates massively through the age group. From memory is under 1% for under 65 and over 10% for over 75. So the overall mortality skewed by demographics and health of a nation. 

 

Even at 0.6 it would still be a big number. 
 

However, the theory of population immunity could in be done in a less risky approach. You shield/control measure for the high risk until it’s under control in general population. You introduce strict controls for high risk setting care homes etc. 
 

You could get a big number down pretty easily with some targeted measures. The problem is we have to accept that deaths are going to occur from the virus, we can’t prevent it. So you minimise damage, 
 

COVID even in a pursuit of ‘herd immunity’ would be done in a manner to control spread and impact. It would never be a free for all. 
 

The current approach is far from sustainable. The fact the SG think these measures will be effective in controlling COVID amazes me. 
 

 

 

That all sounds quite reasonable. But how can you have controlled herd-immunity?  (Not being Devil’s advocate, I really don’t know)

 

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Presume you will not be suffering job loss or home loss then. The followers just can't help lapping up whatever Nicola says.

She damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

 

If she lifts everything and allows us to "crack-on" regardless then the NHS will be swamped and thousands will die but as long as the pubs are open though eh?

 

What would you do different? Would you have ignored the scientific advice? She cant close the borders, she cant borrow money to extend the furlough, she cant magic a vaccine out her arse.

 

Credit where its due, she trying to balance 50 plates here. some are going to crash down.

[Robbo-Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Also, on reflection, allowing student to mass in the halls wasn't a great idea. 

 

No idea why the majority cant study at home.

They can.

 

Maybe they wanted the rent accomodation money. 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Robbo-Jambo said:

They can.

 

Maybe they wanted the rent accomodation money. 

Or the £40M a month it costs to run Edinburgh University perhaps.

 

Same old same old = Money > Lives

[Blackford Hearts]

1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

all over 18s sport except professional sport IIRC

.....and meanwhile Ian Maxwell of SFA fame is confident that fans will return to Scottish grounds “long before” UK governments 6 month deadline

[westbow]

33 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Also announced that Nat 5 exams cancelled for 2021. Education in Scotland taking a hammering under the watch of Scotland's worst education minister in history, a man who should have gone earlier but was saved by SNP light (green) party. 

Probably  is a good thing that this decision is being made early doors. Takes the stress out of it for the kids knowing what the set up is going to be. Tories seem to have some kind of dogma when it comes to sitting exams.

[FWJ]

Don’t be too hard on universities.

It’s from universities that we’ll get a treatment / vaccine for this (I hope!)

[milky_26]

Just now, westbow said:

Probably  is a good thing that this decision is being made early doors. Takes the stress out of it for the kids knowing what the set up is going to be. Tories seem to have some kind of dogma when it comes to sitting exams.

they have announced that highers and advanced higher exams are to go ahead

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Blackford Hearts said:

.....and meanwhile Ian Maxwell of SFA fame is confident that fans will return to Scottish grounds “long before” UK governments 6 month deadline

And also confident clubs will share out a big pot of money handed to them by Westminster!!😂

[westbow]

Just now, milky_26 said:

they have announced that highers and advanced higher exams are to go ahead

Did they say why one and not the other?

[Heartsmad1874]

21 minutes ago, FWJ said:

(Bits in bold don’t really help IMHO)

I think you’re right, it will be unrealistic to eliminate the virus doing this, but it might help to contain it.

The second paragraph is your opinion and not fact.

Contain it? Wtf have we been doing since March if not containing but yet here we are again lumbered with her off the hoof restrictions.

 

Ye canny contain a virus bud, if we reopen in 16 days who'se to say figures won't rise again? Is she gonna say back behind the sofas for another 2 weeks. 
 

Can't live like this and many will choose not to because it is absolute nonsense.

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

This is the way forward people! 
Meet the Blade beer machine...a thing of beauty producing 15 pints of lovely chilled lager for £26.

Mark my words it will be the must have purchase this year.

I love it, get pished in yer bubble for less than £2 a pint.

[westbow]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

Don’t be too hard on universities.

It’s from universities that we’ll get a treatment / vaccine for this (I hope!)

Yeah boffins, get your ****ing finger oot!

[stevie1874]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Did NS say that 25% of all people testing positive had reported going to some type of hospitality venuue in the previous 14 days. So an indeterminate amount of 25% is the reason for closing the industry. Sounds reasonable.

Most people would visit some sort of hospitality venue over 2 weeks surely

[Robbo-Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Or the £40M a month it costs to run Edinburgh University perhaps.

 

Same old same old = Money > Lives

Exactly

[hughesie27]

What changes would people on here make that would be more effective in their view? Not a loaded question. 

[hughesie27]

3 minutes ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

This is the way forward people! 
Meet the Blade beer machine...a thing of beauty producing 15 pints of lovely chilled lager for £26.

Mark my words it will be the must have purchase this year.

I love it, get pished in yer bubble for less than £2 a pint.

Better yet, I've been making my own. Moved onto the wine too. Got a raspberry (picked by my own hand) wine brewing away just now.

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

What changes would people on here make that would be more effective in their view? Not a loaded question. 

Personally myself I’d shield the most vulnerable and let the rest get on with it.

[Heartsmad1874]

12 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

She damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

 

If she lifts everything and allows us to "crack-on" regardless then the NHS will be swamped and thousands will die but as long as the pubs are open though eh?

 

What would you do different? Would you have ignored the scientific advice? She cant close the borders, she cant borrow money to extend the furlough, she cant magic a vaccine out her arse.

 

Credit where its due, she trying to balance 50 plates here. some are going to crash down.

She has lifted most if not everything and the NHS is not overwhelmed. 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Better yet, I've been making my own. Moved onto the wine too. Got a raspberry (picked by my own hand) wine brewing away just now.

Too right mate it’s your duty. 🥴

[Adam_the_legend]

3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What changes would people on here make that would be more effective in their view? Not a loaded question. 

It’s the balance of harm I think they are getting wrong. Poverty kills, we know that. Think I read somewhere austerity led to 160k deaths. At this point my opinion is decimating the economy in the way these restrictions are will cause far more deaths, and additional issues, long term. There is a balance to be struck for sure, I just think they are getting it wrong. 

[Shanks]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What changes would people on here make that would be more effective in their view? Not a loaded question. 

 

Close down the halls of residence maybe?  Considering that's where a huge number of cases are coming from.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I believe the official line is that we are all sorry for any family affected by Covid death. Any other death we don't care about.

Exactly. That's certainly what it seems like. 

[Victorian]

This latest tranche of measures is very unpopular.   A real vote loser.   She's probably doing all this for political gain...

 

Nut,  haud the bus!   Maybe that's no quite right.

[FWJ]

10 minutes ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

This is the way forward people! 
Meet the Blade beer machine...a thing of beauty producing 15 pints of lovely chilled lager for £26.

Mark my words it will be the must have purchase this year.

I love it, get pished in yer bubble for less than £2 a pint.

That would look braw next to my (similar looking!) coffee machine.

Cover all bases!

[Heartsmad1874]

Did she say where any cash support is coming from to support these businesses??

[westbow]

Just now, Shanks said:

 

Close down the halls of residence maybe?  Considering that's where a huge number of cases are coming from.  

I think they would but where would they go? Back into the community? They will all need screened before leaving. Apparently it is quicker and a lot more reliable to check if you don't have it than if you do.

[FWJ]

9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Better yet, I've been making my own. Moved onto the wine too. Got a raspberry (picked by my own hand) wine brewing away just now.

Raspberry vodka’s good too.  My dad used to make that.

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What changes would people on here make that would be more effective in their view? Not a loaded question. 

Insist on mandatory mask wearing in all indoor settings.  Enforced. No mask,no entry. Supermarkets, buses, everywhere. If you're exempt, you produce a card to prove that exemption. Student halls closed and all students sent home after a mandatory test. It won't pick up all cases but it is a guide. More police enforcement in order to break up house parties and mass gatherings. 

[theshed]

1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

another thing will be over the next couple of years is the cases of alcohol (and drug) related illnesses as binge drinking in the home will increase

I’m nearly 50 and never drank in the house until this lockdown started. 
 

Now I’ve found myself buying beer in most weekends if I’m not working. 
Most of my friends are now drinking in their house if not out in their garage in their man caves as they call them 

[Robbofan99]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

She's going cap in hand to nasty  Westmonster for a bail out.

She will get SFA 

[FWJ]

9 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

She has lifted most if not everything and the NHS is not overwhelmed. 

Not yet.  It generally takes a while to get ill enough to need hospital, then a while more before ICU.

I can’t remember the figure for death rate once in ICU.  Was it 40% (though better understanding of the disease meant it had dropped from 60%)

 

[FWJ]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

You introduce controls, like the shielding. You don’t let in run through the general pop.
 

You control who can potentially get its. Herd immunity is achieved at lower levels than many think and as immunity increases the spread decreases. 

 

We know this thing doesn’t effect all equally. You control who can who exposed to this to a large degree. The SG already made choices like that in relation to schools and Uni, they are back first because their risk is viewed as much lower. 
 

You take a similar approach until your start building up immunity in the community. Phased easing of restrictions is something easily doable but is just unpalatable, mainly for political reasons. 

 

It wouldn’t be straightforward and it would be difficult on those who were the most vulnerable, however, at least you can plan to minimise impact on these. Whilst, you have to accept deaths will occur with this course of action but that is something we do everyday and occurring with hefty restrictions. 
 

If a vaccine was found tomorrow, it wouldn’t be for everyone. People under 65 would be perceived at lower risk of getting than disease than taking a vaccine. A vaccine would be for vulnerable or risk categories. That’s how we should treat the control measures imo for those who need them. 

Even if you went for population immunity strategy controls like social distancing would remain as limits the spread. It’s far from a go back to how we used to live and stuff anyone who ain’t strong enough to survive. 
 

Closing resteraunts etc will do nothing do address the issues we face at best it delays a couple of weeks. It does cause untold damage economically and socially. 

 

 

 

Is that the Swedish rationale?

[westbow]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

This latest tranche of measures is very unpopular.   A real vote loser.   She's probably doing all this for political gain...

 

Nut,  haud the bus!   Maybe that's no quite right.

Don't think they care about political gain as they have so many votes regardless. They do have a bit of a clunking fist when it comes to policy.

[joondalupjambo]

Did the Scottish Conservatives condemn / challenge these latest restrictions surrounding hospitality venues?  I cannot see anywhere that they did.  Is that because next week the UK Government will introduce the same or near same restrictions next week?

 

The logic for some of this is not clear. The SG says these advise / ask people from within the central belt / five heath board areas that are restricted areas not to travel outside those areas but people from areas who live within high transmissions areas in the rest of the UK can still travel to anywhere in Scotland.  Surely that is wromg?  Or is it because the UK Government will shortly follow suit and advise no travel outside their own areas, high transmission or otherwise?

 

France has shut all bars for two weeks from 6th October.  We ate just a bit later to the party.

 

[Norm]

28 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

She damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

 

If she lifts everything and allows us to "crack-on" regardless then the NHS will be swamped and thousands will die but as long as the pubs are open though eh?

 

What would you do different? Would you have ignored the scientific advice? She cant close the borders, she cant borrow money to extend the furlough, she cant magic a vaccine out her arse.

 

Credit where its due, she trying to balance 50 plates here. some are going to crash down.

If anything, the inability for the SG to borrow money for these latest rules is an argument for independence. Clearly, our elected government has a strategy to fight Covid but are reliant on WM to fund it. If furlough was still in place, which NS has said would be her preferred option, this latest announcement wouldn't be so bad. 

[joondalupjambo]

12 minutes ago, theshed said:

I’m nearly 50 and never drank in the house until this lockdown started. 
 

Now I’ve found myself buying beer in most weekends if I’m not working. 
Most of my friends are now drinking in their house if not out in their garage in their man caves as they call them 

 It is interesting.  I lived in Oz for nearly 15 years on and off and most people in the suburbs drank at home, hardly any pubs in those type of areas and it was the norm.   Granted for most of the year you could sit outside but not all the time.

 

I honestly think we could be going through a bit of a cultural change here and drinking in the home could become the new norm for a vast number of folk. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by joondalupjambo

[Norm]

15 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

It’s the balance of harm I think they are getting wrong. Poverty kills, we know that. Think I read somewhere austerity led to 160k deaths. At this point my opinion is decimating the economy in the way these restrictions are will cause far more deaths, and additional issues, long term. There is a balance to be struck for sure, I just think they are getting it wrong. 

In the States, it's believed by some that each 1% increase in unemployment results in an additional 40,000 deaths. Now, that's thought to be less in places with a stronger welfare system such as Europe but there is a direct link between unemployment rate and mortality. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, westbow said:

Don't think they care about political gain as they have so many votes regardless. They do have a bit of a clunking fist when it comes to policy.

 

Not a bit.   The only route to a referendum is to achieve a majority at Holyrood.   Any future referendum will require maximum support being carried on.   Especially if the franchise is widened to Scots born people living in England,  etc.   

 

We may soon see any chance of the SNP delivering independence disappearing up in smoke.   That will not prevent Sturgeon from taking decisions she thinks are right.   

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, joondalupjambo said:

 It is interesting.  I lived in Oz for nearly 15 years on and off and most people in the suburbs drank at home, hardly any pubs in those type of areas and it was the norm.   Granted for most of the year you could sit outside but all the ti,me.

 

I honestly think we could be going through a bit of a cultural change here and drinking in the home could become the new norm for a vast number of folk. 

The first lockdown brought home just how much cheaper it is to drink at home. And quite often more pleasant.