Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Nucky Thompson]

12,594 new positive tests in the UK.

19 deaths in all settings

[coconut doug]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It very much depends what state they were in pre-infection

.

These tests are being done on patients hospitalised- who are the worse affected and by all possible other measures are most likely to already have ischaemic damage to their brains and myocardia, let alone damage from smoking and diabetes etc etc etc even before they had Covid.

Establishing causality would require before and after shots, which they may have, but I doubt it, because even if they had a previous, say echo cardiogram- they deteriorate over time anyway, so attributing any extra damage to the virus would be really hard

 

I would think it doesn't matter what state you are in pre-infection. Covid is going to make you worse unless there are some beneficial effects that i am not yet aware of. 

 

Tests are carried out in hospitals and in the community and not just on the worst affected as you suggest. As you are doubtless aware in almost every case it is not Covid that kills the patient and many Covid victims are in the last stages of life in any case . Attributing the death Covid is obviously misleading in these cases even if it is strictly true.

 

  Not everybody dies though and not everybody is in the final stages of life. For some, and it may turn out to be a significant number their existing and underlying conditions are going to deteriorate and their quality of life diminish. The scale of this effect is not known but we do know, amongst many other things that Covid damages alveoli causing breathing problems which are often the stimulus for other debilitating and life threatening conditions. We do not need to establish causality for this but we do probably need to establish the extent of it. Of course we also know for sure that Covid adversely affects many other conditions too.

  In a decent society these people would be protected and looked after whatever the cause of their condition even though we know their condition will deteriorate anyway. Prevention might actually save the hard pressed taxpayer in the long run.

[Nucky Thompson]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

You’re right.
I’ll be shouting mad Nicola oot.

I'm pretty sure that won't have any effect 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I'm pretty sure that won't have any effect 

No it won’t.

I do think a further lockdown is a waste of time and not because I’ll miss the pub. 
Honest.

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I would think it doesn't matter what state you are in pre-infection. Covid is going to make you worse unless there are some beneficial effects that i am not yet aware of. 

 

Tests are carried out in hospitals and in the community and not just on the worst affected as you suggest. As you are doubtless aware in almost every case it is not Covid that kills the patient and many Covid victims are in the last stages of life in any case . Attributing the death Covid is obviously misleading in these cases even if it is strictly true.

 

  Not everybody dies though and not everybody is in the final stages of life. For some, and it may turn out to be a significant number their existing and underlying conditions are going to deteriorate and their quality of life diminish. The scale of this effect is not known but we do know, amongst many other things that Covid damages alveoli causing breathing problems which are often the stimulus for other debilitating and life threatening conditions. We do not need to establish causality for this but we do probably need to establish the extent of it. Of course we also know for sure that Covid adversely affects many other conditions too.

  In a decent society these people would be protected and looked after whatever the cause of their condition even though we know their condition will deteriorate anyway. Prevention might actually save the hard pressed taxpayer in the long run.

you are missing the point.

The piece is speculative, and has bound together some information about ICU patients, ventilated patients, COVID patients and non COVID patients and drawn conclusions that may or not be true, then thrown a dart at a board to come up with a figure to put to it.

 

That is not useful for any profession to do, let alone medicine- its utterly irresponsible- linking COVID to everything from dementia to cardiac failure.

We do know that COVID badly affects some people, thats true, but its not a doomsday virus by any stretch, though that appears to be the narrative from some people overly keen to see their names in print

[Irufushi]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

No it won’t.

I do think a further lockdown is a waste of time and not because I’ll miss the pub. 
Honest.

Lies! LIES! 

[Beni]

Sweden expect current levels of restrictions to last for at least a year.

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20201005/swedens-coronavirus-measures-could-remain-in-place-for-at-least-another-year

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Irufushi said:

Lies! LIES! 

That’s what the wife would say.

😩

 

[theshed]

1 hour ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Me & the wife were both SNP but their management of this situation has been a total farce. If there's another proper lockdown that means her shop has to close, she's out a job and we're out of our flat.

 

Zero logic behind this plan. This 'circuit breaker' goes ahead, they can forget me voting SNP ever again. 

The people who make these lockdown decisions don’t give a toss about people like you and me and will never have the worry about how to pay bills.

 

It’s easy for sturgeon and her cronies to have another lockdown cause in the end she will ride away into the sunset with her big fat pension no matter what happens 

Look at the SNP women who went to London last week who still hasn’t walked. 
She gets around 80k a year 

1st class travel down to London 

Everything paid for her when she’s down there. 
A house to stay in down in London plus god knows what other perks. 
No wonder she won’t resign

 

These people live in a different world from most people and don’t give a shit about lockdowns, in fact there’s many people loving this just like the Leitch who’s starting to get right on my tits 

[AlphonseCapone]

Never mind a vaccine, why isn't someone designing a fashionable, more sleek hazmat type suit so we can keep going places without spreading anything. That or allow folk out if they use a zorb.

Edited October 5, 2020 by AlphonseCapone

[AlphonseCapone]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

you are missing the point.

The piece is speculative, and has bound together some information about ICU patients, ventilated patients, COVID patients and non COVID patients and drawn conclusions that may or not be true, then thrown a dart at a board to come up with a figure to put to it.

 

That is not useful for any profession to do, let alone medicine- its utterly irresponsible- linking COVID to everything from dementia to cardiac failure.

We do know that COVID badly affects some people, thats true, but its not a doomsday virus by any stretch, though that appears to be the narrative from some people overly keen to see their names in print

 

You not got patients to see? 

[Nucky Thompson]

Shite reporting by The Scotsman again

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/could-scotland-get-circuit-breaker-lockdown-if-harsher-restrictions-could-be-introduced-control-spread-covid-19-2993313

 

There was 697 positive cases today, not 875. Also there was no rise in ICU patients 

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

You not got patients to see? 

not this afternoon mon amis,

with all the telephone triage and so on I can start work at 7am  and if I'm not "duty Dr" be all wrapped up pronto...

though I'd have to say not every patient likes being called at 7am, and you do get some verbals

[Vansen]

State of this thread 😁 

 

And lay off JIH, I'm enjoying his fishing 😁

[ri Alban]

15 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

You not got patients to see? 

Do people believe he's a Doctor.

[OmiyaHearts]

18 minutes ago, theshed said:

The people who make these lockdown decisions don’t give a toss about people like you and me and will never have the worry about how to pay bills.

 

It’s easy for sturgeon and her cronies to have another lockdown cause in the end she will ride away into the sunset with her big fat pension no matter what happens 

Look at the SNP women who went to London last week who still hasn’t walked. 
She gets around 80k a year 

1st class travel down to London 

Everything paid for her when she’s down there. 
A house to stay in down in London plus god knows what other perks. 
No wonder she won’t resign

 

These people live in a different world from most people and don’t give a shit about lockdowns, in fact there’s many people loving this just like the Leitch who’s starting to get right on my tits 

Spot on. These people that make these decisions have had zero-impact on their life. I despise politicians and their ilk.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Do people believe he's a Doctor.

Which.

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Which.

This one. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

How the f@@@ do they know about” long term “ damage when cv just surfaced earlier this year ? More scare mongering pish 

From SARS and MERS which are related viruses.   This virus is closely related to SARS. 
 

SARS and MERS didn’t do human to human transmission well.  SARS-CoV-2 (Covid) does.  
 

Also there are 3 endgames and a vaccine is only one of them. 
 

the other are future viral mutations so it becomes another common cold virus, and effective treatments. We have a start with steroids and remdesivir but more are needed. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

This one. 

[Ray Gin]

56 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Run rampant? A huge swathe of the population may well have natural immunity already. It was able to "run rampant " on the Diamond Princess for 2 full weeks and less than 20% were infected. You seem to believe , hyperbolic language aside ; rip through, run rampant etc, that everyone is prone to catching it. They're not, especially if they follow the hands, face, space principle. 

 

You get upset at the term run rampant but then say that "huge swathes" may have already been infected.  

 

20% sounds like an awful lot of people to me. Over 13.5 million in the UK alone.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

51 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

12,594 new positive tests in the UK.

19 deaths in all settings

19 deaths today? 
 

Worth the whole country being economically crippled I suppose....

[Francis Albert]

46 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

Sweden expect current levels of restrictions to last for at least a year.

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20201005/swedens-coronavirus-measures-could-remain-in-place-for-at-least-another-year

Sensible proportionate measures can remain in place for a long time maybe some indefinitely without doing the harm our extreme stop-go panic measures are doing.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Heartsmad1874]

Another lockdown would be absolutely disastrous so fully expect it to happen 👍🏻👍🏻.

 

Just have to look at Cineworld. 4 thousand jobs down the pan and they are probably the first of many companies to do the same.

 

 

 

 

[Heartsmad1874]

The world is a weird place now where you can't even sit beside your family and console them after losing a loved one.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

What is it she's waiting on?

There is no vaccine in the offing.

Waiting for decline in cases and deaths and hospital admissioms which will.inevitably happen in time whatever measures are taken (and however much damage those measures cause). That will enable victory over the pandemic and victory for the politivians and governmemts to.be declared.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Nucky Thompson]

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

19 deaths today? 
 

Worth the whole country being economically crippled I suppose....

Aye, but deaths will shoot up to April levels in 2/4/6/8/10 weeks. Delete as appropriate 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

12,594 new positive tests in the UK.

19 deaths in all settings

Covid 19 Others 1681

[frankblack]

13 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Another lockdown would be absolutely disastrous so fully expect it to happen 👍🏻👍🏻.

 

Just have to look at Cineworld. 4 thousand jobs down the pan and they are probably the first of many companies to do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

Something Sturgeon and co need to realise is there will be no furlough cash from Sunak to facilitate a Scottish lockdown.  That will translate directly into redundancies.

[Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Something Sturgeon and co need to realise is there will be no furlough cash from Sunak to facilitate a Scottish lockdown.  That will translate directly into redundancies.

Maybe part of her thinking. Cause more division by blaming Westminster for not providing a never ending furlough solution to her mental lockdown ideas. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Maybe part of her thinking. Cause more division by blaming Westminster for not providing a never ending furlough solution to her mental lockdown ideas. 

Sounds a plan.

[kila]

I think a 2 week lockdown will be effective and coming out of lockdown afterwards will mean the number of cases should be lower for a while before increasing again.

 

I don't see an issue with that when there are a variety of treatments being tested and we're at a potential tipping point with new cases.

 

It's a lot to gamble that things will be fine and a lockdown isn't needed. The general consensus a few months ago was the UK should've locked down earlier than it did. Now there are plans to do just that to limit what could be the second wave, and it is being argued against more than I was expecting.

 

I do like the clashes on this thread though - it's good to have balance even if some is a little crazy. It's like a diary of what parts of the population are thinking/doing.

 

[Heartsmad1874]

2 minutes ago, kila said:

I think a 2 week lockdown will be effective and coming out of lockdown afterwards will mean the number of cases should be lower for a while before increasing again.

 

I don't see an issue with that when there are a variety of treatments being tested and we're at a potential tipping point with new cases.

 

It's a lot to gamble that things will be fine and a lockdown isn't needed. The general consensus a few months ago was the UK should've locked down earlier than it did. Now there are plans to do just that to limit what could be the second wave, and it is being argued against more than I was expecting.

 

I do like the clashes on this thread though - it's good to have balance even if some is a little crazy. It's like a diary of what parts of the population are thinking/doing.

 

The stats and figures from this 2 week lockdown won't actually show until weeks after it's meant to finish.

 

You live in planet cuckoo land if you think it will be just two weeks imo.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[graygo]

43 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

From SARS and MERS which are related viruses.   This virus is closely related to SARS. 
 

SARS and MERS didn’t do human to human transmission well.  SARS-CoV-2 (Covid) does.  
 

Also there are 3 endgames and a vaccine is only one of them. 
 

the other are future viral mutations so it becomes another common cold virus, and effective treatments. We have a start with steroids and remdesivir but more are needed. 

 

4. It wipes us all out. 😉

[Heartsmad1874]

Lockdown would also require a bit of trust in the governments but both Holyrood and Westminster seem to be in a competition to see who can come up with the more severe failures to deliver public trust.

 

From an SNP MP travelling from London- Glasgow with Covid to a failure from the Track and Trace system and thats just the last week!

 

You could go back to the start of this and point out more.

 

Both governments shown up for their complete incompetence and the public enquiry to covid can't come soon enough.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[Jambo_Gaz]

8 minutes ago, kila said:

I think a 2 week lockdown will be effective and coming out of lockdown afterwards will mean the number of cases should be lower for a while before increasing again.

 

I don't see an issue with that when there are a variety of treatments being tested and we're at a potential tipping point with new cases.

 

It's a lot to gamble that things will be fine and a lockdown isn't needed. The general consensus a few months ago was the UK should've locked down earlier than it did. Now there are plans to do just that to limit what could be the second wave, and it is being argued against more than I was expecting.

 

I do like the clashes on this thread though - it's good to have balance even if some is a little crazy. It's like a diary of what parts of the population are thinking/doing.

 

No it won't be effective. The effective way is to allow the younger in society to get on with their lives and allow the shielding of any that need it. We know so much more about this month's in to this lockdown. 

 

The true effect of lockdown hasn't hit people yet but it's going to....very soon. 

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

The stats and figures from this 2 week lockdown won't actually show until weeks after it's meant to finish.

 

You live in planet cuckoo land if you think it will be just two weeks imo.

 

If you are going to do a lockdown it has to be 4-6 weeks for the virus to work through asymptomatic people and their contacts or it isn't worthwhile.

[steve123]

6 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Lockdown would also require a bit of trust in the governments but both Holyrood and Westminster seem to be in a competition to see who can come up with the more severe failures to deliver public trust.

 

From an SNP MP travelling from London- Glasgow with Covid to a failure from the Track and Trace system and thats just the last week!

 

You could go back to the start of this and point out more.

 

Both governments shown up for their complete incompetence and the public enquiry to covid can't come soon enough.

I agree with this, I reckon they are stick on to do it next week before Furlough etc ends and she does not have the financial back up to do it.

[Victorian]

On a lighter note from the avalanche of doom mongering from the gloomsters...

 

Optical Express advert for laser eye surgery using glasses steaming up due to wearing a mask as it's 'USP'.   

 

 

[theshed]

9 minutes ago, Jambo_Gaz said:

No it won't be effective. The effective way is to allow the younger in society to get on with their lives and allow the shielding of any that need it. We know so much more about this month's in to this lockdown. 

 

The true effect of lockdown hasn't hit people yet but it's going to....very soon. 

The last thing you have said is so very true and it’s going to hit home with lots of people on next couple of months 

 

After Xmas and new year there’s going to be a lot of people out a job and no money to pay their mortgage 

 

But the people making these decisions will still be getting paid their big wage and will be fine 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Shanks said:

Not enough people are dying from the virus so we have to be scared of ‘long covid’ 

 

When deaths start creeping up long Covid mysteriously seems to disappear, funny that. 

Exactly

[Shanks]

47 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, but deaths will shoot up to April levels in 2/4/6/8/10 weeks. Delete as appropriate 

 

That hasn’t happened so we have moved on to being scared of long covid. 
 

We don’t do lockdowns to protect the NHS anymore it seems. 

[Robbofan99]

3 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Me & the wife were both SNP but their management of this situation has been a total farce. If there's another proper lockdown that means her shop has to close, she's out a job and we're out of our flat.

 

Zero logic behind this plan. This 'circuit breaker' goes ahead, they can forget me voting SNP ever again. 

Similar position. SNP no longer getting my vote in elections.  Even going off the idea of independence if the current situation is a foreshadow of what an Independent Scotland would be like with SNP in charge. The good news is that BJ will tell her to take a hike re furlough and that will certainly put pay to future full lockdowns. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Similar position. SNP no longer getting my vote in elections.  Even going off the idea of independence if the current situation is a foreshadow of what an Independent Scotland would be like with SNP in charge. The good news is that BJ will tell her to take a hike re furlough and that will certainly put pay to future full lockdowns. 

[kila]

As if Boris won't join in on the circuit break idea! Especially after PHE's blunder for using Excel as a database for case numbers and fudging it so things are worse than they thought.

 

 

[Robbofan99]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, but deaths will shoot up to April levels in 2/4/6/8/10 weeks. Delete as appropriate 

We are already passed the 4 weeks mark that some doom merchants * you know which ones im talking about.  Anyway by now apparently deaths would be very high , infections in the 10s of thousands...however maybe it will happen in the next 4 weeks ?  

[Robbofan99]

59 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Something Sturgeon and co need to realise is there will be no furlough cash from Sunak to facilitate a Scottish lockdown.  That will translate directly into redundancies.

Having a lockdown will directly be responsible for redundancies.  We are seeing it every day. 

[Robbofan99]

53 minutes ago, kila said:

I think a 2 week lockdown will be effective and coming out of lockdown afterwards will mean the number of cases should be lower for a while before increasing again.

 

I don't see an issue with that when there are a variety of treatments being tested and we're at a potential tipping point with new cases.

 

It's a lot to gamble that things will be fine and a lockdown isn't needed. The general consensus a few months ago was the UK should've locked down earlier than it did. Now there are plans to do just that to limit what could be the second wave, and it is being argued against more than I was expecting.

 

I do like the clashes on this thread though - it's good to have balance even if some is a little crazy. It's like a diary of what parts of the population are thinking/doing.

 

Take it your in a safe job then ? Since you have no problem with others losing theirs if there is another lockdown? Selfish. 

[manaliveits105]

22 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Similar position. SNP no longer getting my vote in elections.  Even going off the idea of independence if the current situation is a foreshadow of what an Independent Scotland would be like with SNP in charge. The good news is that BJ will tell her to take a hike re furlough and that will certainly put pay to future full lockdowns. 

[kila]

Just now, Robbofan99 said:

Take it your in a safe job then ? Since you have no problem with others losing theirs if there is another lockdown? Selfish. 

 

I'd rather the government helped out workers...

 

But even if things just stayed open and the older generation/vulnerable ones shielded, that's a lot of customers to lose. Are young people going to spend money everywhere to keep the economy going? Or would there be job losses because there's a chunk of the population unable to spend their cash out and about?

 

The problem is the capitalist model. You can't just isolate a chunk of society and think things will be fine economically. During a pandemic, a switch to a more socialist model is needed. And we sort of got that with furlough - though it needs ramped up again to support what lies ahead.