Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Another new bursds?

He's too skint for that. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

He's too skint for that. 

 

Nothing a bit of insider dealing wont solve.

[Beni]

59 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

unfortunately herd immunity doesn’t work - read it on here

 

nice idea tho

 

is there any particular reason why you don't use capital letters and full stops? not having a go just curious

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Nothing a bit of insider dealing wont solve.

Not the Tories mate. They don't do insider dealing and PPE procurement scams and Covid app provision scams or stuff like that. No siree 

Edited September 26, 2020 by The Mighty Thor

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Not the Tories mate. They don't do insider dealing and PPE procurement scams and Covid app provision scams or stuff like that. No siree 

 

Me bad.   I was going to suggest that the highly unusual appointment of a complete non-clinician to head up a national public health organisation was also a bit suspect.    But maybe she just impressed at the interview.

[doctor jambo]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

This country is eating itself to death.

Drinking itself to death 

Smoking itself to death

Sitting on its collective arse waiting for death

Covid should take care of the rest. 

But drink and fags are taxed to hell to compensate/ deter/ reduce use

food is not

it should be

[Ray Gin]

Not just obese people who are at risk of lasting health issues:

 

Health experts worry virus could cause lasting heart complications for athletes
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-athletes-heart-complications-health-issues-a9662386.html

"Mr Schneider is one of many cardiovascular experts concerned about the nascent, growing body of evidence about how Covid-19 affects the heart. The studies have not focused on athletes, but their findings have implications for the sports world. Research raises the possibility that athletes who recover from Covid-19 may face dire or lasting heart complications, and medical experts have urged cardiac screening for athletes returning to play after contracting the virus. Two high-level athletes – including the projected Opening Day starter for the Boston Red Sox – have reported heart issues in the wake of recovery from Covid-19."

“We have very strong, serious concerns about the potential for Covid to affect athletes cardiovascularly,” said Michael Emery, co-director of the sports cardiology department at the Cleveland Clinic. “When you look at Covid in general, there seems to be a higher predilection for involvement with the heart than about any other virus we’ve seen.”

 

"Dean Winslow, an infectious-disease doctor at Stanford University, said research has shown that as many as 20 per cent of people who recover from Covid-19 show cardiac abnormalities."

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Not just obese people who are at risk of lasting health issues:

 

Health experts worry virus could cause lasting heart complications for athletes
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-athletes-heart-complications-health-issues-a9662386.html

"Mr Schneider is one of many cardiovascular experts concerned about the nascent, growing body of evidence about how Covid-19 affects the heart. The studies have not focused on athletes, but their findings have implications for the sports world. Research raises the possibility that athletes who recover from Covid-19 may face dire or lasting heart complications, and medical experts have urged cardiac screening for athletes returning to play after contracting the virus. Two high-level athletes – including the projected Opening Day starter for the Boston Red Sox – have reported heart issues in the wake of recovery from Covid-19."

“We have very strong, serious concerns about the potential for Covid to affect athletes cardiovascularly,” said Michael Emery, co-director of the sports cardiology department at the Cleveland Clinic. “When you look at Covid in general, there seems to be a higher predilection for involvement with the heart than about any other virus we’ve seen.”

 

"Dean Winslow, an infectious-disease doctor at Stanford University, said research has shown that as many as 20 per cent of people who recover from Covid-19 show cardiac abnormalities."

A new study has found that athletes are at risk from cardiovascular problems arising from Covid. Even though no athletes were used in this study. Project Fear in full flow. 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

A new study has found that athletes are at risk from cardiovascular problems arising from Covid. Even though no athletes were used in this study. Project Fear in full flow. 

 

20% of people show cardiac abnormalities. Athletes are people. Athletes put their hearts under a lot of stress. It's not hard to see why there is a concern.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Ray Gin

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

A new study has found that athletes are at risk from cardiovascular problems arising from Covid. Even though no athletes were used in this study. Project Fear in full flow. 

 

For every perceived example of 'project fear' there is at least one example of 'project come ahead then virus, who are ya?'.    Like the periodic proclamations that the virus is weakening.    

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

But drink and fags are taxed to hell to compensate/ deter/ reduce use

food is not

it should be

 

There are hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people in the UK who either can't or can barely afford enough food as it is, and you want to tax it and make it even dearer for them.

[Costanza]

21 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Not just obese people who are at risk of lasting health issues:

 

Health experts worry virus could cause lasting heart complications for athletes
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-athletes-heart-complications-health-issues-a9662386.html

"Mr Schneider is one of many cardiovascular experts concerned about the nascent, growing body of evidence about how Covid-19 affects the heart. The studies have not focused on athletes, but their findings have implications for the sports world. Research raises the possibility that athletes who recover from Covid-19 may face dire or lasting heart complications, and medical experts have urged cardiac screening for athletes returning to play after contracting the virus. Two high-level athletes – including the projected Opening Day starter for the Boston Red Sox – have reported heart issues in the wake of recovery from Covid-19."

“We have very strong, serious concerns about the potential for Covid to affect athletes cardiovascularly,” said Michael Emery, co-director of the sports cardiology department at the Cleveland Clinic. “When you look at Covid in general, there seems to be a higher predilection for involvement with the heart than about any other virus we’ve seen.”

 

"Dean Winslow, an infectious-disease doctor at Stanford University, said research has shown that as many as 20 per cent of people who recover from Covid-19 show cardiac abnormalities."

The term Long Covid is scaremongering apparently.

[Costanza]

Just saw this on Twitter, this can't be right can it?

 

 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There are hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people in the UK who either can't or can barely afford enough food as it is, and you want to tax it and make it even dearer for them.

Don't tax low fat,  low sugar healthy food. Tax unhealthy food. Even use the proceeds from the latter to subsidise the former.

[AlimOzturk]

13 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

20% of people show cardiac abnormalities. Athletes are people. Athletes put their hearts under a lot of stress. It's not hard to see why there is a concern.

 

We are told to excercise is good to keep nasty viruses at bay. 
 

now we are told the fittest men and women amongst are more at risk

 

 

 

[frankblack]

I was in the big Tesco in Corstorphine yesterday and panic buying is back in full force.

 

Chilled food section was very low in stock, and bog roll aisle was getting cleared out.

 

Project Fear from both governments and the media has a lot to answer for.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Guy sounds like a complete radge.

 

Surely you can do better than that?

[The Real Maroonblood]

14 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There are hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people in the UK who either can't or can barely afford enough food as it is, and you want to tax it and make it even dearer for them.

I’m surprised food banks weren’t mentioned in the post.

Maybe because they appeared during the Tories watch.

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

We are told to excercise is good to keep nasty viruses at bay. 
 

now we are told the fittest men and women amongst are more at risk

 

 

 

 

That's not really surprising though, the fittest people are often pushing their bodies right to the edge. Your average person is never going to be an athlete and get so fit that it verges on being unhealthy.

[Ray Gin]

16 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

We are told to excercise is good to keep nasty viruses at bay. 
 

now we are told the fittest men and women amongst are more at risk

 

 

 

Where does it say 'more at risk'?

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

53 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

is there any particular reason why you don't use capital letters and full stops? not having a go just curious

 

generally typing on a phone mate - hitting the right letters is challenge enough

[Shanks]

Wow, 1 in 5 of the footballers that caugh covid now have destroyed hearts and don’t even know it.  Long Covid truly is the silent killer. 

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Just saw this on Twitter, this can't be right can it?

 

 

 

That does look like a teensie weensie oversight.

But they had little choice except to rush the app out after they g̶r̶i̶f̶t̶e̶d̶, w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ invested hundreds of millions of pounds and a couple of months with Dominic Cummings' mates.

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

generally typing on a phone mate - hitting the right letters is challenge enough

 

👍.

[Ray Gin]

Deniers exaggerating things to extremes to try and ridicule valid research.  

[Victorian]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

Deniers exaggerating things to extremes to try and ridicule valid research.  

 

Research requires time,  thought and open mindedness.

 

Denier-ism requires to be instant gratification,  absolutist,  dismissive.

[Ray Gin]

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/15-college-athletes-showed-signs-heart-damage-covid/story?id=72931050

 

Another study. Presumably also making it up for shits and giggles.

 

[DETTY29]

Guy on Radio Scotland from Sweden, missed his speciality subject, anyway and as mentioned previously on here.

 

Strongest restrictions in his lifetime (of course)

Not enshrined in law, but restrictions are highly recommended in line with lockdown countries, but not full lock down of course.

His 70 yo old parents didn't see anyone for months

100 of thousands of families took kids out of school and nurseries.

Have a v. high single community that live alone and worked from home.

The population are prepared for these restrictions to last for years as confidence levels in mass vaccine being available soon isn't high.

 

Sweden is also a country that in general believes in cradle to grave support of it's people.

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

That does look like a teensie weensie oversight.

But they had little choice except to rush the app out after they g̶r̶i̶f̶t̶e̶d̶, w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ invested hundreds of millions of pounds and a couple of months with Dominic Cummings' mates.

It's ok Johnson's half brother has his snout in the £100bn minty moonbeam project to save us.

[Weakened Offender]

37 minutes ago, frankblack said:

I was in the big Tesco in Corstorphine yesterday and panic buying is back in full force.

 

Chilled food section was very low in stock, and bog roll aisle was getting cleared out.

 

Project Fear from both governments and the media has a lot to answer for.

 

Have either/both governments been telling imbeciles to stock up the freezers and hoard the 9 packs like? 

[Francis Albert]

20 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Where does it say 'more at risk'?

 

You did above when you posted that athletes put their hearts  under a lot of stress. 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

But drink and fags are taxed to hell to compensate/ deter/ reduce use

food is not

it should be

 

Processed food, sugary food, high fat content food, surely. Not just "food".

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Check his name...

 

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Guy on Radio Scotland from Sweden, missed his speciality subject, anyway and as mentioned previously on here.

 

Strongest restrictions in his lifetime (of course)

Not enshrined in law, but restrictions are highly recommended in line with lockdown countries, but not full lock down of course.

His 70 yo old parents didn't see anyone for months

100 of thousands of families took kids out of school and nurseries.

Have a v. high single community that live alone and worked from home.

The population are prepared for these restrictions to last for years as confidence levels in mass vaccine being available soon isn't high.

 

Sweden is also a country that in general believes in cradle to grave support of it's people.

I'd imagine Sweden has a lower percentage of the tin foil hat wearing, non-complying bangers that Scotland has. 

If you have a sense of community then community health policy will always work better. 

[Weakened Offender]

16 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/15-college-athletes-showed-signs-heart-damage-covid/story?id=72931050

 

Another study. Presumably also making it up for shits and giggles.

 

 

Can this guy be a Mod on this forum please? 

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'd imagine Sweden has a lower percentage of the tin foil hat wearing, non-complying bangers that Scotland has. 

If you have a sense of community then community health policy will always work better. 

I wouldn't restrict to Scotland but UK wide it's all about the so called cream siphoning off as much as they can at the public purse expense, encouraging everyone else to work hard to aspire to be like them and if you aren't, blame some other notable minority.

 

And our mass population buys into it.

Edited September 26, 2020 by DETTY29

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

I wouldn't restrict to Scotland but UK wide it's all about the cream siphoning off as much as they can at the public purse expense, encouraging everyone else to work hard to aspire to be like them and if you aren't blame some other notable minority.

 

And our mass population buys into it.

Twas ever thus. 

[Ray Gin]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

You did above when you posted that athletes put their hearts  under a lot of stress. 

 

Really, are the words 'more at risk' in invisible text or something? 

[CavySlaveJambo]

15 hours ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Struggle to understand new restrictions. Case numbers are going to be high when more and more testing is ongoing 

It’s not just the numbers coming back positive that are a problem.  It is the percentage of new tests coming back positive that is the major problem.  That is the comparison to use even though originally it was over 20% in March when they limited testing. 
 

 It’s been over 5% for over a week which means the outbreak is out of control again.  

[Nucky Thompson]

26 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/15-college-athletes-showed-signs-heart-damage-covid/story?id=72931050

 

Another study. Presumably also making it up for shits and giggles.

 

Do you trawl the Internet for every negative article you can find 

[Nucky Thompson]

59 minutes ago, frankblack said:

I was in the big Tesco in Corstorphine yesterday and panic buying is back in full force.

 

Chilled food section was very low in stock, and bog roll aisle was getting cleared out.

 

Project Fear from both governments and the media has a lot to answer for.

Fecking imbeciles 

I can imagine a few doom mongers on this thread will be participating in clearing shelves

[Victorian]

Just now, CavySlaveJambo said:

It’s not just the numbers coming back positive that are a problem.  It is the percentage of new tests coming back positive that is the major problem.  That is the comparison to use even though originally it was over 20% in March when they limited testing. 
 

 It’s been over 5% for over a week which means the outbreak is out of control again.  

 

This guy gets it.   The rate of positive results is the stat to track.   Denier-ist comfort blanket of recent times is the uncertainty in the tests.   A poor rate of accuracy.   A rising percentage of positive results makes that a redundant comfort blanket.

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

That’s horrendous.

I hope things improve quickly.
 

 

👍

[Costanza]

47 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

That does look like a teensie weensie oversight.

But they had little choice except to rush the app out after they g̶r̶i̶f̶t̶e̶d̶, w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ invested hundreds of millions of pounds and a couple of months with Dominic Cummings' mates.

The awarding of Government contracts during  the pandemic should be a national scandal but our "woke" media isn't reporting it widely.

[steve123]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

This guy gets it.   The rate of positive results is the stat to track.   Denier-ist comfort blanket of recent times is the uncertainty in the tests.   A poor rate of accuracy.   A rising percentage of positive results makes that a redundant comfort blanket.

True this but when you are adding hundreds at a time from University out breaks numbers are only going one way until under control.

 

Never easy decision to make but this one seems to be looking wrong in hindsight ( I get some people will think it was predictable)

[redjambo]

On 24/09/2020 at 22:00, Nucky Thompson said:

Which wouldn't be a problem if we all had the same app.

 

Another indication that we may well have made the right decision to develop our own app.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54307526

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Don't tax low fat,  low sugar healthy food. Tax unhealthy food. Even use the proceeds from the latter to subsidise the former.

 

In an ideal world that would be what should happen, however a lot of low income families can't afford the better priced more healthy food, that's been known for years.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Excellent article from todays Telegraph. 

 

Pandemics can mysteriously fizzle out but sadly Covid-19 continues to fizz instead. That leaves two solutions – either inventing a safe and effective vaccine or developing population immunity through infection. Lockdowns, social distancing, face coverings and testing are important in buying time but cannot be sustained endlessly. We desperately need a greater level of public debate, including on the vexed issue of population immunity – a better phrase than herd immunity.

Although we don’t yet know how many people are immune – whether the proportion is five per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent – it all helps reduce spread. When a proportion of the population has immunity, the infection can be transmitted less easily across populations, or even stopped. The proportion needed to stop transmission altogether is known as the population immunity threshold. For Covid-19, it has been estimated that this threshold could be as low as 20 per cent or as high as 70 per cent. My estimate is that it’s likely to be somewhere in the middle, between 40 and 50 per cent.

No one is advocating “letting the infection rip”, a phrase used by people who do not want this discussed. Stifling dialogue around the issue, as happened even to Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty when they aired useful ideas on herd immunity in the early stages of the pandemic, is unacceptable.

I believe most children and young people will get the infection as they return to normal life – through schooling, starting new jobs, and going to university. They generally have strong defences against Covid-19. Yes, serious illness and death can, in rare cases, occur, but the risks have to be offset against the important health, educational, social and other problems of restrictive measures. Young people need education and all of us need to be able to see our families. I have continued to see my own four children and their partners – though they don’t come within three feet of me! I know there is still some risk but it is worth taking to be with them.

Immunity is strong following infection. Several hundreds of millions of cases of Covid-19 have occurred. In calculating this number of infections I assume 0.5 per cent of infected people die and the number of deaths as 2 million, giving 400 million cases. Even if 1 million cases (0.25 per cent of 400 million) had been recurrent infections, not the handful reported so far, this would be a small number, indicating good immunity, although it would be extraordinary, perhaps unique, if immunity was 100 per cent and lifelong.

I believe in vaccination. However, vaccines are not necessarily a silver bullet. Two adenovirus -based vaccines currently being trialled (known as the Oxford and Wuhan vaccines), for example, have side-effects that are similar to Covid-19 itself – fever, pain, fatigue and headache – in 70-80 per cent of fit adults. These vaccines will not be proven to be safe and effective for children and young people for some years. It is also important that any vaccine is proven to be effective in people over 70.

Even when proven, vaccines will face resistance and will be contested, including in the courts. Even if the vaccine is safe, someone may die or become ill by coincidence, sparking controversy. This is the history of vaccination programmes. It can take years to acquire evidence to persuade people that adverse events were not caused by a vaccine.

 
In the meantime, I advocate a strategy of the careful acquisition of population immunity through natural infection in everyday life in young, low-risk people. This requires special efforts directed at those of high risk in any age group, including the young and their parents and grandparents. It is a strategy that, in the wake of Covid-19, has been too readily dismissed, even rendered taboo. Yet I have found that the public and many professionals are generally favourable to the concept.

I wish we had better options. The situation we face is called “zugzwang” in chess – there are no good moves but you don’t want to resign. But while children and young people have much to lose from measures that restrict their education, social development and freedom, they have relatively little to lose from the infection. On the other hand, older people like myself have relatively little to lose from restrictions but much to lose from the infection.

I am not prepared to sacrifice the well-being of children and young people to reduce my risk to near-zero. I believe society should focus our scarce resources to protect those who are frail or cannot protect themselves, while everyone else should apply well-known solutions: hygiene, social distancing and face masks. Life is not without risks or death. More than 12,000 deaths from all causes occur in the UK every week.

We have to get Covid-19 deaths in perspective. Our vision and strategies should be long-term, not week-by-week – and not based on fear.

 

Prof Raj Bhopal CBE is Emeritus Professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh. This article reflects his recent publications in the BMJ

 

Great article 

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Fecking imbeciles 

I can imagine a few doom mongers on this thread will be participating in clearing shelves

 

Its all so unnecessary.  The food waste will be ridiculous and we aren't even at the situation we had in March.

 

The supermarkets need to get a grip.

 

On other matters it looks like the 10pm curfew was a farce as I expected in London with tube stations and streets rammed as everyone leaves at the same time, which means social distancing is gone.  Extending licensing hours to stagger exits would have been the correct approach.

[redjambo]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Its all so unnecessary.  The food waste will be ridiculous and we aren't even at the situation we had in March.

 

The supermarkets need to get a grip.

 

On other matters it looks like the 10pm curfew was a farce as I expected in London with tube stations and streets rammed as everyone leaves at the same time, which means social distancing is gone.  Extending licensing hours to stagger exits would have been the correct approach.

 

I've been practising those for years!