Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Robbofan99]

Nice sunny day in Sweden 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Interesting thread on Twitter by Faisal Islam on the PHE pillar 1&2 testing data by age group and the trends from it

Can't imagine data for Scotland will be hugely different. Given the clusterf**k in student halls the 20-29 age group will likely be worse up here.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by The Mighty Thor

[Robbofan99]

11 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I was in the West End of Glasgow today and could’ve shot the same movie, what’s your point?

Point being people getting on with their lives without the fear factor curtailing them 

[Norm]

Thanks to those offering concern for my circumstances a few pages back. It's appreciated. Still on furlough, but expecting to be laid off. We'll see. 

 

On the bright side, the missus got an improved role at her work with a sizeable pay rise. Whilst it's only temporary at the moment, it should probably keep us going for a bit longer so selling the house won't be an immediate concern. The more breathing space, the better chance of finding another job before it all goes tits up. 

 

But yeah, 6 months on the dole and we'd be done for. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, theshed said:

Is this guy the same guy as Natural order?
 

Cause if it is he’s posting over on the terrace under natural order 

 

Has he got two accounts?

 

No idea perhaps he has a twin. That would  possibly create one half-wit.

[hughesie27]

19 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Nice sunny day in Sweden 

 

2nd guy you see in the video with a fa e covering on. Not that it matters as you could see a similar video in Britain walking down the street where face coverings in the street are not mandatory and anyone wearing one is doing it by choice.

[Seymour M Hersh]

18 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I was in the West End of Glasgow today and could’ve shot the same movie, what’s your point?

 

So you're a weejie!  

[Norm]

5 hours ago, theshed said:

Right so the natural order guy posting on the terrace is a different natural order to the guy who asks all the questions and is now the mask guy on here 

 

Sorry it’s hard to keep up at times 

I can't remember which was which but I'm sure one was Natural Order and the other was Natural Orders. Confused the hell out of me at first as I didn't notice the difference in names. Thought we had a genuine case of multiple personality as some of the posts were clearly by a reasonable, functioning human being while others.... 

[jack D and coke]

20 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Thanks to those offering concern for my circumstances a few pages back. It's appreciated. Still on furlough, but expecting to be laid off. We'll see. 

 

On the bright side, the missus got an improved role at her work with a sizeable pay rise. Whilst it's only temporary at the moment, it should probably keep us going for a bit longer so selling the house won't be an immediate concern. The more breathing space, the better chance of finding another job before it all goes tits up. 

 

But yeah, 6 months on the dole and we'd be done for. 

Good news about your mrs.
Best of luck finding something yourself👍🏼

[Norm]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Good news about your mrs.
Best of luck finding something yourself👍🏼

Cheers and appreciated.

 

I'm not sure what to do.

 

My current job is almost ideal, a literal 60 second commute and ties in perfect with family life. I'd like to keep it and I'm loathe to get another one until I know for sure this one is gone. 

 

On the other hand, I don't want to leave it too late to apply for other stuff if there's going to be massive increase in fellow job seekers. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Normthebarman

[Francis Albert]

BBC news has not yet mentioned the  latest number of COVID deaths after 15 minutes of scaremongering. During the so called first wave it was the headline news every day. 

[Des Lynam]

24 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I now live not too far from Hamilton actually.....

Are you starting to question things more? 

[Morgan]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

Are you starting to question things more? 

Ummmm...

 

What a twit.

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

BBC news has not yet mentioned the  latest number of COVID deaths after 15 minutes of scaremongering. During the so called first wave it was the headline news every day. 

It was only 34 deaths after 3 days in a row of record breaking infections 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

BBC news has not yet mentioned the  latest number of COVID deaths after 15 minutes of scaremongering. During the so called first wave it was the headline news every day. 

34 in UK FA in Scotland

[Fxxx the SPFL]

16 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Cheers and appreciated.

 

I'm not sure what to do.

 

My current job is almost ideal, a literal 60 second commute and ties in perfect with family life. I'd like to keep it and I'm loathe to get another one until I know for sure this one is gone. 

 

On the other hand, I don't want to leave it too late to apply for other stuff if there's going to be massive increase in fellow job seekers. 

Not sure what your job is but Scottish Govt ( who i work for) and Social Security Scotland are taking on loads just now obviously working from home mostly IT/Processing.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

it would be nice but won't happen if the daily death figures were broken down into age brackets i.e. 80+, 70+ etc and if they had underlying health problems. i'm sure it would show most were in the higher age bracket imo, nobody wants any deaths but we need to get this in perspective particularly as they never mention how mention people that died in the last 24 hours of cancer, heart issues etc etc.

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

BBC news has not yet mentioned the  latest number of COVID deaths after 15 minutes of scaremongering. During the so called first wave it was the headline news every day. 

Behavioural scientists at work again.  The state, along with it's various flunkies like the BBC will have serious questions to answer about the scaremongering campaign that has been undertaken.  Deaths and hospital admissions are not rising in accordance with the higher positive test rates.  Surely that deserves to be highlighted, even if Patrick Vallance's shareholding will be adversely affected by a weakening virus.

[Seymour M Hersh]

48 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I now live not too far from Hamilton actually.....

 

Commiserations. 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

8 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Which is up 7 from last Friday and the weekly average has gone up from 16 to 29. We should be concerned at this trend, although this is currently manageable we need it to stop rising 

not disputing that but i'm sure it's mostly people with underlying health problems but they don't tell us that. My in laws aged 82 and 88 both have very serious health problems and could possibly only live for another twelve months to two years and now because of the restrictions their last year/years they are being deprived of seeing us their grandchildren and great grandchildren people are assuming their will be a vaccine aye ok. oh and they are in a nursing home

Edited September 25, 2020 by Fxxx the SPFL

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was only 34 deaths after 3 days in a row of record breaking infections 

34 out of about a total of  1700 deaths in.the UK.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

34 out of about a total of  1700 deaths in.the UK.

2%

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

One of many horrible situations we find ourselves in, I hope we get out of this and their lives can return to normal. 

agree BD

[Shanks said no]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

I now live not too far from Hamilton actually.....

 

Deep sleeper

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Captain Canada said:

 

This is from the SG website suggesting over 1.5m tests. The number you've quoted is individual people rather than tests. 

 

"A total of 654,246 COVID-19 tests carried out through NHS labs and  920,154 tests through UKG Labs in Scotland have reported results."

 

It would seem each person is averaging 2 tests unless tests from England are being processed in Scotland? I'm not sure but even the lowest figure would still mean a huge total for a test that's 'a bit rubbish.' 

 

You're quite right, that's where I got my figure from but didn't read further down to the bit you've quoted.

[Captain Canada]

 

Some good points in here I'd not heard before.

 

There is so much that many people can do individually to improve their metabolic health. 

[Captain Canada]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

You're quite right, that's where I got my figure from but didn't read further down to the bit you've quoted.

👍 it's not easy to pick out the right figures as there are so many! 

[Norm]

Speaking to the missus earlier and she was telling me one of the other problems with locking down care homes.

 

There's quite a few facilities across the country where young adults with learning difficulties are in residential care. Normally, they'd be seen at the weekends by their family or go and visit them. 

 

However, by law, these facilities were classed as care homes and therefore under the same strict controls as any other. The problem being the residents are as physically fit as the next person and are not in any at risk categories. 

 

She knows a parent of one of these folk and used to work with some of them when they were kids. The parent has a petition on the go and is trying to get the SG to re-classify these places. An unforeseen impact that hopefully can be rectified. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

You would think six months in they would’ve found someone to find the time to get this resolved even on a individual or facility basis. 

Six months on they don’t really have any other ideas bar trying to suppress a virus. In this day and age, impossible surely. 

[Robbofan99]

2 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

Thanks to those offering concern for my circumstances a few pages back. It's appreciated. Still on furlough, but expecting to be laid off. We'll see. 

 

On the bright side, the missus got an improved role at her work with a sizeable pay rise. Whilst it's only temporary at the moment, it should probably keep us going for a bit longer so selling the house won't be an immediate concern. The more breathing space, the better chance of finding another job before it all goes tits up. 

 

But yeah, 6 months on the dole and we'd be done for. 

Good luck 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Captain Canada said:

 

Some good points in here I'd not heard before.

 

There is so much that many people can do individually to improve their metabolic health. 

 

that should be re-titled an audience with the flat-earthers

 

comparing covid to flu using ‘facts’ and ‘numbers’

 

suggesting the Swedish approach may pay long term dividends when proper expert opinion predicts bad times ahead for Sweden 

 

the key parts to be taken -

 

no mention of long-covid - the uniqueness of this symptom/disease means no discussion can be taken seriously without it figuring prominently - it’s absence here makes the whole video invalid 

 

even more dangerously their tinfoil hat declaration that improving physical and mental health and diet could be some sort of defence against this highly infectious indiscriminate deadly pathogen needs closed-down

 

in reality all out hopes lie with good guys in the pharma companies 

 

an industry who’ll reach out to give second opportunities to those who have maybe had small issues in the past but have now mended their ways like convicted nazis

 

an industry where no puppy is ever punched unless “they’ve had their chance”

 

 

[Heartsmad1874]

6 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

Cheers and appreciated.

 

I'm not sure what to do.

 

My current job is almost ideal, a literal 60 second commute and ties in perfect with family life. I'd like to keep it and I'm loathe to get another one until I know for sure this one is gone. 

 

On the other hand, I don't want to leave it too late to apply for other stuff if there's going to be massive increase in fellow job seekers. 

Anytime i applied for a job on Indeed recently the number of applicants was above 400ish.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Robbofan99 said:

well u want need a graph for April just look at the figures for then . They will be online somewhere. 

Aw, only graphs that support your agenda are required? 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

6 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was only 34 deaths after 3 days in a row of record breaking infections 

Takes a week to 10days for infection rate to reflect death rate, plus places like care homes are more on the ball now so less likely to see as high a numbers as spring due to the age of the infected been way lower on average. 

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

that should be re-titled an audience with the flat-earthers

 

comparing covid to flu using ‘facts’ and ‘numbers’

 

suggesting the Swedish approach may pay long term dividends when proper expert opinion predicts bad times ahead for Sweden 

 

the key parts to be taken -

 

no mention of long-covid - the uniqueness of this symptom/disease means no discussion can be taken seriously without it figuring prominently - it’s absence here makes the whole video invalid 

 

even more dangerously their tinfoil hat declaration that improving physical and mental health and diet could be some sort of defence against this highly infectious indiscriminate deadly pathogen needs closed-down

 

in reality all out hopes lie with good guys in the pharma companies 

 

an industry who’ll reach out to give second opportunities to those who have maybe had small issues in the past but have now mended their ways like convicted nazis

 

an industry where no puppy is ever punched unless “they’ve had their chance”

 

 

Long Covid is not unique. Many viruses can cause long term sequelae in a small number of people .

And they partly have a point.

if the fat, unfit people of the nation had started strict diets waaaaay back in March many of them would no longer be at risk as they would 

1- no longer be obese

2- no longer have sleep apnoea

3- have lowered their BP

4- have reversed their type 2 diabetes 

 

but they didn’t 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Long Covid is not unique. Many viruses can cause long term sequelae in a small number of people .

And they partly have a point.

if the fat, unfit people of the nation had started strict diets waaaaay back in March many of them would no longer be at risk as they would 

1- no longer be obese

2- no longer have sleep apnoea

3- have lowered their BP

4- have reversed their type 2 diabetes 

 

but they didn’t 

 

even if this fanciful notion was true it is very difficult for many people to go on a strict diet as evidenced by their body condition everyday

 

why did the governments not continually push this to save lives or given the draconian measures they were forced to take they could have easily shut all the supermarkets and delivered only healthy food to every household?

 

according to these flat-earthers that would not only have saved lives but also seen the virus deflected/quickly shaken-off by many of the hosts it relies on

 

why aren’t they doing it now? I dont think ive ever seen such advice figure prominently in any of the slogans (could have missed it tho)

 

 

 

 

[Beni]

9 hours ago, Captain Canada said:

 

Some good points in here I'd not heard before.

 

There is so much that many people can do individually to improve their metabolic health. 

 

What are the good points you've not heard before?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Excellent article from todays Telegraph. 

 

Pandemics can mysteriously fizzle out but sadly Covid-19 continues to fizz instead. That leaves two solutions – either inventing a safe and effective vaccine or developing population immunity through infection. Lockdowns, social distancing, face coverings and testing are important in buying time but cannot be sustained endlessly. We desperately need a greater level of public debate, including on the vexed issue of population immunity – a better phrase than herd immunity.

Although we don’t yet know how many people are immune – whether the proportion is five per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent – it all helps reduce spread. When a proportion of the population has immunity, the infection can be transmitted less easily across populations, or even stopped. The proportion needed to stop transmission altogether is known as the population immunity threshold. For Covid-19, it has been estimated that this threshold could be as low as 20 per cent or as high as 70 per cent. My estimate is that it’s likely to be somewhere in the middle, between 40 and 50 per cent.

No one is advocating “letting the infection rip”, a phrase used by people who do not want this discussed. Stifling dialogue around the issue, as happened even to Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty when they aired useful ideas on herd immunity in the early stages of the pandemic, is unacceptable.

I believe most children and young people will get the infection as they return to normal life – through schooling, starting new jobs, and going to university. They generally have strong defences against Covid-19. Yes, serious illness and death can, in rare cases, occur, but the risks have to be offset against the important health, educational, social and other problems of restrictive measures. Young people need education and all of us need to be able to see our families. I have continued to see my own four children and their partners – though they don’t come within three feet of me! I know there is still some risk but it is worth taking to be with them.

Immunity is strong following infection. Several hundreds of millions of cases of Covid-19 have occurred. In calculating this number of infections I assume 0.5 per cent of infected people die and the number of deaths as 2 million, giving 400 million cases. Even if 1 million cases (0.25 per cent of 400 million) had been recurrent infections, not the handful reported so far, this would be a small number, indicating good immunity, although it would be extraordinary, perhaps unique, if immunity was 100 per cent and lifelong.

I believe in vaccination. However, vaccines are not necessarily a silver bullet. Two adenovirus -based vaccines currently being trialled (known as the Oxford and Wuhan vaccines), for example, have side-effects that are similar to Covid-19 itself – fever, pain, fatigue and headache – in 70-80 per cent of fit adults. These vaccines will not be proven to be safe and effective for children and young people for some years. It is also important that any vaccine is proven to be effective in people over 70.

Even when proven, vaccines will face resistance and will be contested, including in the courts. Even if the vaccine is safe, someone may die or become ill by coincidence, sparking controversy. This is the history of vaccination programmes. It can take years to acquire evidence to persuade people that adverse events were not caused by a vaccine.

 
In the meantime, I advocate a strategy of the careful acquisition of population immunity through natural infection in everyday life in young, low-risk people. This requires special efforts directed at those of high risk in any age group, including the young and their parents and grandparents. It is a strategy that, in the wake of Covid-19, has been too readily dismissed, even rendered taboo. Yet I have found that the public and many professionals are generally favourable to the concept.

I wish we had better options. The situation we face is called “zugzwang” in chess – there are no good moves but you don’t want to resign. But while children and young people have much to lose from measures that restrict their education, social development and freedom, they have relatively little to lose from the infection. On the other hand, older people like myself have relatively little to lose from restrictions but much to lose from the infection.

I am not prepared to sacrifice the well-being of children and young people to reduce my risk to near-zero. I believe society should focus our scarce resources to protect those who are frail or cannot protect themselves, while everyone else should apply well-known solutions: hygiene, social distancing and face masks. Life is not without risks or death. More than 12,000 deaths from all causes occur in the UK every week.

We have to get Covid-19 deaths in perspective. Our vision and strategies should be long-term, not week-by-week – and not based on fear.

 

Prof Raj Bhopal CBE is Emeritus Professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh. This article reflects his recent publications in the BMJ

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

12 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Excellent article from todays Telegraph. 

 

Pandemics can mysteriously fizzle out but sadly Covid-19 continues to fizz instead. That leaves two solutions – either inventing a safe and effective vaccine or developing population immunity through infection. Lockdowns, social distancing, face coverings and testing are important in buying time but cannot be sustained endlessly. We desperately need a greater level of public debate, including on the vexed issue of population immunity – a better phrase than herd immunity.

Although we don’t yet know how many people are immune – whether the proportion is five per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent – it all helps reduce spread. When a proportion of the population has immunity, the infection can be transmitted less easily across populations, or even stopped. The proportion needed to stop transmission altogether is known as the population immunity threshold. For Covid-19, it has been estimated that this threshold could be as low as 20 per cent or as high as 70 per cent. My estimate is that it’s likely to be somewhere in the middle, between 40 and 50 per cent.

No one is advocating “letting the infection rip”, a phrase used by people who do not want this discussed. Stifling dialogue around the issue, as happened even to Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty when they aired useful ideas on herd immunity in the early stages of the pandemic, is unacceptable.

I believe most children and young people will get the infection as they return to normal life – through schooling, starting new jobs, and going to university. They generally have strong defences against Covid-19. Yes, serious illness and death can, in rare cases, occur, but the risks have to be offset against the important health, educational, social and other problems of restrictive measures. Young people need education and all of us need to be able to see our families. I have continued to see my own four children and their partners – though they don’t come within three feet of me! I know there is still some risk but it is worth taking to be with them.

Immunity is strong following infection. Several hundreds of millions of cases of Covid-19 have occurred. In calculating this number of infections I assume 0.5 per cent of infected people die and the number of deaths as 2 million, giving 400 million cases. Even if 1 million cases (0.25 per cent of 400 million) had been recurrent infections, not the handful reported so far, this would be a small number, indicating good immunity, although it would be extraordinary, perhaps unique, if immunity was 100 per cent and lifelong.

I believe in vaccination. However, vaccines are not necessarily a silver bullet. Two adenovirus -based vaccines currently being trialled (known as the Oxford and Wuhan vaccines), for example, have side-effects that are similar to Covid-19 itself – fever, pain, fatigue and headache – in 70-80 per cent of fit adults. These vaccines will not be proven to be safe and effective for children and young people for some years. It is also important that any vaccine is proven to be effective in people over 70.

Even when proven, vaccines will face resistance and will be contested, including in the courts. Even if the vaccine is safe, someone may die or become ill by coincidence, sparking controversy. This is the history of vaccination programmes. It can take years to acquire evidence to persuade people that adverse events were not caused by a vaccine.

 
In the meantime, I advocate a strategy of the careful acquisition of population immunity through natural infection in everyday life in young, low-risk people. This requires special efforts directed at those of high risk in any age group, including the young and their parents and grandparents. It is a strategy that, in the wake of Covid-19, has been too readily dismissed, even rendered taboo. Yet I have found that the public and many professionals are generally favourable to the concept.

I wish we had better options. The situation we face is called “zugzwang” in chess – there are no good moves but you don’t want to resign. But while children and young people have much to lose from measures that restrict their education, social development and freedom, they have relatively little to lose from the infection. On the other hand, older people like myself have relatively little to lose from restrictions but much to lose from the infection.

I am not prepared to sacrifice the well-being of children and young people to reduce my risk to near-zero. I believe society should focus our scarce resources to protect those who are frail or cannot protect themselves, while everyone else should apply well-known solutions: hygiene, social distancing and face masks. Life is not without risks or death. More than 12,000 deaths from all causes occur in the UK every week.

We have to get Covid-19 deaths in perspective. Our vision and strategies should be long-term, not week-by-week – and not based on fear.

 

Prof Raj Bhopal CBE is Emeritus Professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh. This article reflects his recent publications in the BMJ

 

 

unfortunately herd immunity doesn’t work - read it on here

 

nice idea tho

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

unfortunately herd immunity doesn’t work - read it on here

 

nice idea tho

 

True perhaps we should listen more to the "experts" on here rather than the Emeritus Professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh. Will we ever learn? 

[Victorian]

31 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Excellent article from todays Telegraph. 

 

Pandemics can mysteriously fizzle out but sadly Covid-19 continues to fizz instead. That leaves two solutions – either inventing a safe and effective vaccine or developing population immunity through infection. Lockdowns, social distancing, face coverings and testing are important in buying time but cannot be sustained endlessly. We desperately need a greater level of public debate, including on the vexed issue of population immunity – a better phrase than herd immunity.

Although we don’t yet know how many people are immune – whether the proportion is five per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent – it all helps reduce spread. When a proportion of the population has immunity, the infection can be transmitted less easily across populations, or even stopped. The proportion needed to stop transmission altogether is known as the population immunity threshold. For Covid-19, it has been estimated that this threshold could be as low as 20 per cent or as high as 70 per cent. My estimate is that it’s likely to be somewhere in the middle, between 40 and 50 per cent.

No one is advocating “letting the infection rip”, a phrase used by people who do not want this discussed. Stifling dialogue around the issue, as happened even to Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty when they aired useful ideas on herd immunity in the early stages of the pandemic, is unacceptable.

I believe most children and young people will get the infection as they return to normal life – through schooling, starting new jobs, and going to university. They generally have strong defences against Covid-19. Yes, serious illness and death can, in rare cases, occur, but the risks have to be offset against the important health, educational, social and other problems of restrictive measures. Young people need education and all of us need to be able to see our families. I have continued to see my own four children and their partners – though they don’t come within three feet of me! I know there is still some risk but it is worth taking to be with them.

Immunity is strong following infection. Several hundreds of millions of cases of Covid-19 have occurred. In calculating this number of infections I assume 0.5 per cent of infected people die and the number of deaths as 2 million, giving 400 million cases. Even if 1 million cases (0.25 per cent of 400 million) had been recurrent infections, not the handful reported so far, this would be a small number, indicating good immunity, although it would be extraordinary, perhaps unique, if immunity was 100 per cent and lifelong.

I believe in vaccination. However, vaccines are not necessarily a silver bullet. Two adenovirus -based vaccines currently being trialled (known as the Oxford and Wuhan vaccines), for example, have side-effects that are similar to Covid-19 itself – fever, pain, fatigue and headache – in 70-80 per cent of fit adults. These vaccines will not be proven to be safe and effective for children and young people for some years. It is also important that any vaccine is proven to be effective in people over 70.

Even when proven, vaccines will face resistance and will be contested, including in the courts. Even if the vaccine is safe, someone may die or become ill by coincidence, sparking controversy. This is the history of vaccination programmes. It can take years to acquire evidence to persuade people that adverse events were not caused by a vaccine.

 
In the meantime, I advocate a strategy of the careful acquisition of population immunity through natural infection in everyday life in young, low-risk people. This requires special efforts directed at those of high risk in any age group, including the young and their parents and grandparents. It is a strategy that, in the wake of Covid-19, has been too readily dismissed, even rendered taboo. Yet I have found that the public and many professionals are generally favourable to the concept.

I wish we had better options. The situation we face is called “zugzwang” in chess – there are no good moves but you don’t want to resign. But while children and young people have much to lose from measures that restrict their education, social development and freedom, they have relatively little to lose from the infection. On the other hand, older people like myself have relatively little to lose from restrictions but much to lose from the infection.

I am not prepared to sacrifice the well-being of children and young people to reduce my risk to near-zero. I believe society should focus our scarce resources to protect those who are frail or cannot protect themselves, while everyone else should apply well-known solutions: hygiene, social distancing and face masks. Life is not without risks or death. More than 12,000 deaths from all causes occur in the UK every week.

We have to get Covid-19 deaths in perspective. Our vision and strategies should be long-term, not week-by-week – and not based on fear.

 

Prof Raj Bhopal CBE is Emeritus Professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh. This article reflects his recent publications in the BMJ

 

 

Not a bad article.   The analogy of zugzwang is interesting but not actually relevant.   Zugzwang is a situation in chess where every available move is guaranteed to worsen a players ability to achieve a win or draw.    We don't know that applies to covid.    Population immunity might end up being a 'move' that achieves progress.    Unfortunately it can only be achieved and proved to be beneficial over a long time.    That's going to be an enormous study.

[Unknown user]

After my mrs lost 2 members of the extended family at the start of this I haven't had much personal experience, but I know 5 people who've caught it this last couple of weeks. One is 20, built like a brick shithouse, waiting to join the royal marines, and he's getting pretty ill. He lives with his granny too so obviously she's looking after him. Fingers crossed she doesn't get it, imagine that on your conscience. 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

After my mrs lost 2 members of the extended family at the start of this I haven't had much personal experience, but I know 5 people who've caught it this last couple of weeks. One is 20, built like a brick shithouse, waiting to join the royal marines, and he's getting pretty ill. He lives with his granny too so obviously she's looking after him. Fingers crossed she doesn't get it, imagine that on your conscience. 

 

That’s horrendous.

I hope things improve quickly.
 

 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

even if this fanciful notion was true it is very difficult for many people to go on a strict diet as evidenced by their body condition everyday

 

why did the governments not continually push this to save lives or given the draconian measures they were forced to take they could have easily shut all the supermarkets and delivered only healthy food to every household?

 

according to these flat-earthers that would not only have saved lives but also seen the virus deflected/quickly shaken-off by many of the hosts it relies on

 

why aren’t they doing it now? I dont think ive ever seen such advice figure prominently in any of the slogans (could have missed it tho)

 

 

 

 

It hasn’t , but it should have.

Many people are now so fat they cannot breathe  properly.

Their organs so full of fat their pancreas cannot function.

Their blood is swimming with sugar, and cannot fight off infections.

Remove type 2 diabetes and obesity and the number at risk falls massively for the younger categories alone.

Yet what did the government advise?

Nothing.

I hope this pandemic will be paid for with a food tax, as this country is eating itself to death. Covid kills fat people.

[The Internet]

I know we've never been better placed to actually treat people who become ill with this but in societal terms I feel like  it's the worst possible time for something like this to happen. Mainly because we've got the worst politicians in living memory trying to navigate it but also because of the internet. You've not only got your Davie and Traceys thinking they're now virologists and epidemiologists pushing out nonsense but the actual scientists are (seemingly) at odds with each other and every little prediction or claim they make on both sides is used to batter the other side with. I don't know if its divide and rule or whatever working perfectly but its insufferable. So much conflicting information out there. No idea how people deal with it scrolling through facebook and twitter all day, this thread is enough for me

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

even if this fanciful notion was true it is very difficult for many people to go on a strict diet as evidenced by their body condition everyday

 

why did the governments not continually push this to save lives or given the draconian measures they were forced to take they could have easily shut all the supermarkets and delivered only healthy food to every household?

 

according to these flat-earthers that would not only have saved lives but also seen the virus deflected/quickly shaken-off by many of the hosts it relies on

 

why aren’t they doing it now? I dont think ive ever seen such advice figure prominently in any of the slogans (could have missed it tho)

 

 

 

 

 

Or people could take some responsibility for their own health and well-being for a change. Covid aside, the nick of the UK population is shocking.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

It hasn’t , but it should have.

Many people are now so fat they cannot breathe  properly.

Their organs so full of fat their pancreas cannot function.

Their blood is swimming with sugar, and cannot fight off infections.

Remove type 2 diabetes and obesity and the number at risk falls massively for the younger categories alone.

Yet what did the government advise?

Nothing.

I hope this pandemic will be paid for with a food tax, as this country is eating itself to death. Covid kills fat people.

 

Actually there was a half-hearted snippet of advice along those lines.   Barely registered beyond the day it was uttered.   Think it was BJ himself.

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Actually there was a half-hearted snippet of advice along those lines.   Barely registered beyond the day it was uttered.   Think it was BJ himself.

It was indeed Johnson himself. 

 

Was he not pictured doing a press up in his office?

 

[Victorian]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

It was indeed Johnson himself. 

 

Was he not pictured doing a press up in his office?

 

 

Another new bursds?

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It hasn’t , but it should have.

Many people are now so fat they cannot breathe  properly.

Their organs so full of fat their pancreas cannot function.

Their blood is swimming with sugar, and cannot fight off infections.

Remove type 2 diabetes and obesity and the number at risk falls massively for the younger categories alone.

Yet what did the government advise?

Nothing.

I hope this pandemic will be paid for with a food tax, as this country is eating itself to death. Covid kills fat people.

This country is eating itself to death.

Drinking itself to death 

Smoking itself to death

Sitting on its collective arse waiting for death

Covid should take care of the rest.