Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[frankblack]

19 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Yes, and I will mitigate the risks of Covid by socially distancing and isolating if I have symptoms. I think your selfish for just trusting your basic rights of privacy over to untested, unproven app.

 

Once again it is is either safe to leave lockdown or it isn't. No track and trace app will make it any less so. 

 

And I'll say it again, you know **** all like the majority so keep your selfish labels to yourself. 

 

Given that the incubation period for the virus can be 14 days you can be a carrier infecting god knows how many people before you eventually realise you are ill.  From your comments I suspect you would take a selfish viewpoint and wouldn't isolate when you realise you are ill.

[frankblack]

17 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

So in the not to distant future.If you go to the pub are you going to have to give over details so that they can trace you in case someone has Covid in there as you are not going to know everyone in the pub but there is a fairly high chance you are going to be a metre next to a lot of folk over the course you are in ?

 

That is why the pubs won't be opening any time soon.

[vegas-voss]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Given that the incubation period for the virus can be 14 days you can be a carrier infecting god knows how many people before you eventually realise you are ill.  From your comments I suspect you would take a selfish viewpoint and wouldn't isolate when you realise you are ill.

I don't get the new rules if NHS contact you have to isolate for 14 days but no other members of your household have to.So what if you are asymptomatic and transfer it to them without knowing.

[vegas-voss]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

That is why the pubs won't be opening any time soon.

Not according to good old Boris

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

I don't get the new rules if NHS contact you have to isolate for 14 days but no other members of your household have to.So what if you are asymptomatic and transfer it to them without knowing.

 

The 14 day thing is to let the symptoms run their course and make asymptomatic people clear.

 

The track and trace procedure is to try and identify who could be infected and initially asymptomatic based on who they were near.

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Given that the incubation period for the virus can be 14 days you can be a carrier infecting god knows how many people before you eventually realise you are ill.  From your comments I suspect you would take a selfish viewpoint and wouldn't isolate when you realise you are ill.

 

If it last 14 days the then the test trace app is a waste of time. Could self isolate for 7 days then still infect people when I leave and still become ill. 

 

Chances of me or you getting infected are incredibly low anyways. Covid 19 is disappearing so no need for apps or anything. 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Not according to good old Boris

 

I think Sturgeon can overrule him up here.  Boris has been proven to be a complete ****wit by his handling of the Cummings scandal.

[frankblack]

Just now, AlimOzturk said:

 

If it last 14 days the then the test trace app is a waste of time. Could self isolate for 7 days then still infect people when I leave and still become ill. 

 

Chances of me or you getting infected are incredibly low anyways. Covid 19 is disappearing so no need for apps or anything. 

 

Covid 19 is disappearing because most people have been obeying the lockdown.

 

Trace and tracking are to allow the government to relax the lockdown and isolate those who may be infected to stop the infection rate increasing after relaxation.

[AlimOzturk]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Covid 19 is disappearing because most people have been obeying the lockdown.

 

Trace and tracking are to allow the government to relax the lockdown and isolate those who may be infected to stop the infection rate increasing after relaxation.

 

Folk asking me to trust the government in this after the Cummings scandal and then calling me or others selfish for not doing so. 

 

Aii, I'll use my own judgement as Cummings would say. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Folk asking me to trust the government in this after the Cummings scandal and then calling me or others selfish for not doing so. 

 

Aii, I'll use my own judgement as Cummings would say. 

 

It isn't the UK government in charge of this up here.

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It isn't the UK government in charge of this up here.

 

Are we going to be using the same app?

[I P Knightley]

12 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Somebody please put a sock in piers Morgan. Seems to think he’s the man of the people. Much of what he’s posting is correct but he’s still a massive dick

I've written before of my loathing for Piers Moron and my feeling that he should have served time.

 

Despite all that, I think he's played the lockdown well; more willing to take the government to task than most presenters/reporters in the main stream. I don't follow the guy but he's often quoted by others on my Twitter feed. He's been alright but I'm getting the impression that it's turning round to focus on himself more than the issues. 

 

I'll be glad when things are back to normal and I can go back to out and out hatred of the man. 

 

2 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Folk saying they will now tell test tracers to get stuffed and folk who would have downloaded the app, saying ram it too, even though they would before even when it broke Cummings pals are getting the contract.

I am not going to load the app onto my phone. I won't willingly give up access to my contacts and details to the liar and manipulator Cummings.

 

If I happen to be contacted by a tracer, I shall use my instincts to decide my course of action. My primary concern rests with the health and well-being of my family. 

[Taffin]

I'm a bit confused by track and trace.

 

Say I stand near someone infected in a supermarket queue and they get symptoms a week later then they won't report this until then. I've then potentially been carrying it and sharing it for 7 days before I even know about it.

 

I get what people are saying in response to Alim that it helps make you aware you may have it even if you have no symptoms but if being asymptomatic is so prevalent then the whole chain breaks down anyway as the initial person won't ever have reported symptoms to therefore trigger the process.

 

 

[TheOak88]

12 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

The outrage is really about him being the architect of Brexit. 

 

I imagine the people who are shouting the loudest about it could well be remoaners who have an axe to grind with the guy. 

 

It will not be exclusively be about Brexit tho.  

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I'm a bit confused by track and trace.

 

Say I stand near someone infected in a supermarket queue and they get symptoms a week later then they won't report this until then. I've then potentially been carrying it and sharing it for 7 days before I even know about it.

 

I get what people are saying in response to Alim that it helps make you aware you may have it even if you have no symptoms but if being asymptomatic is so prevalent then the whole chain breaks down anyway as the initial person won't ever have reported symptoms to therefore trigger the process.

 

 

 

The data from the app on who was where at what time lets them build a chain to trace people.

[Victorian]

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I imagine the people who are shouting the loudest about it could well be remoaners who have an axe to grind with the guy. 

 

It will not be exclusively be about Brexit tho.  

 

Its not about Brexit - its the hypocrisy of him setting the rules for everyone and disregarding them to take his wife on a Birthday jolly 250 miles away.

 

It has bugger all to do with childcare as they have relatives within 3 miles of their home.

[frankblack]

Just now, Victorian said:

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

 

You have put it better than I tried. 👍

[vegas-voss]

31 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think Sturgeon can overrule him up here.  Boris has been proven to be a complete ****wit by his handling of the Cummings scandal.

Aye I was more talking about England.They are moving much faster.Although I think it's just a good news story that might well not happen

[Brighton Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

Well said.  My view is that I totally understand the rage and frustration towards Cummings and the temptation to then say well I’m not Cooperating if he does what he likes.  But that only harms ourselves and makes this whole exit process slower.

 

i really hope we don’t cut off our nose to spite our face.  Cummings is a disgrace who flouts the rules but I hope the vast majority will choose to be better than him not use it as an excuse to copy him.   

[vegas-voss]

Just seen on the news just now even if you have had Covid but get a call from NHS as part of track and trace you have still to self isolate for two weeks.

[vegas-voss]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

Yes I will follow it out even if I'm not sure about the workings of it at all.I have done everything else so for myself I feel it's right to continue to do things.I just want things back to normal or near normal as quickly as possible.Just cause Cummings was a bellend doesn't mean I will just become one.

 

[Shanks said no]

43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is why the pubs won't be opening any time soon.

Saturday 4th July down the road.

 

If the seethe about garden centres is anything to go by then no pubs open in Scotland will see a backlash

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The data from the app on who was where at what time lets them build a chain to trace people.

 

Yeh but it only does that once somebody self-reports symptoms. So if there is a delay in their onset then people may have spread it before that happens or if they are asymptomatic then that chain never starts.

 

It seems more like a tool for getting better data on numbers who may have it rather than preventing people getting it.

[AlimOzturk]

6 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Saturday 4th July down the road.

 

If the seethe about garden centres is anything to go by then no pubs open in Scotland will see a backlash

 

Use your own judgement mate and nip over the road to Berwick apon tweed for a few pints and just test your eyesight on the way home. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[vegas-voss]

My main grip le is in the new tag line Civic Duty ( not sure if Scotland is the same not heard much ). It feels like a get out for the goverment if things spike as they can just say not enough people are taking responsibility.Despite the outcry about Cummings though I think the majority will do as asked.

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Well said.  My view is that I totally understand the rage and frustration towards Cummings and the temptation to then say well I’m not Cooperating if he does what he likes.  But that only harms ourselves and makes this whole exit process slower.

 

i really hope we don’t cut off our nose to spite our face.  Cummings is a disgrace who flouts the rules but I hope the vast majority will choose to be better than him not use it as an excuse to copy him.   

 

The reasoning of people not complying because of Cummings can be understood.   But it's flawed.

 

Cummings breaking the rules = Cummings breaking the rules.    Any other PM would have sacked their adviser.    People should accept that the public health message still remain intact.    Cummings and Johnson are out on a limb.

 

Swift compliance with an isolate instruction could save someone's life.   Perhaps 4 people.   Perhaps 4000.    This is real and not a notional theory.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Victorian

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I have a bit of a problem with track and trace and I am sure I am one of many in that I had suspected covid 19 back in March, a doctor said I more than likely had it. Whatever it was it was pretty bad to be honest nothing like a cold or flu and it lasted weeks. Because I rode it out at home and wasn't offered a test I don't know if I will have to self isolate again if I have been in contact with someone who has tested positive. I sure many more people are in the same boat.

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Saturday 4th July down the road.

 

If the seethe about garden centres is anything to go by then no pubs open in Scotland will see a backlash

He said yesterday he hopes to have hospitality moving faster and pubs up and running in June

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Use your own judgement mate and nip over the road to Berwick soon tweed for a few pints and just test your eyesight on the way home. 

😂

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Yes I will follow it out even if I'm not sure about the workings of it at all.I have done everything else so for myself I feel it's right to continue to do things.I just want things back to normal or near normal as quickly as possible.Just cause Cummings was a bellend doesn't mean I will just become one.

 

 

Correct.   Cummings breaking the rules is irrelevant to the public health duty.

[Taffin]

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

 

Or they just don't believe that the risk of the virus is that high and would prefer to take that risk than staying in lockdown or having sporadic periods of self-isolation based on you maybe having caught it.

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I have a bit of a problem with track and trace and I am sure I am one of many in that I had suspected covid 19 back in March, a doctor said I more than likely had it. Whatever it was it was pretty bad to be honest nothing like a cold or flu and it lasted weeks. Because I rode it out at home and wasn't offered a test I don't know if I will have to self isolate again if I have been in contact with someone who has tested positive. I sure many more people are in the same boat.

You do have to self isolate again even if you definitely had it confirmed by a test.You could be asked to self isolate many times with this new system even if you have had confirmed Covid as they have no def way of knowing about immunity.

 

^ this is what was said on the news about 30 mins ago.

Edited May 28, 2020 by vegas-voss

[DETTY29]

21 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You can't credibly oppose lockdown and oppose trace & isolate.     The system needs to be a united,   community effort and needs high compliance.     It simply does not work on the basis of everyone making their own choice.

 

No trace & isolate,   or a badly observed trace & isolate,   will mean lockdown takes longer to lift or,   much worse,   has to start again.

 

If you come to the bizarre conclusion that you oppose lockdown AND trace & isolate then all you're really saying is that the efforts are for other people and that you're somehow exempt.

Which has all been fecked because of the actions of one man and a weak, incompetent slavering, prejudiced PM and his like minded cabinet.

 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Or they just don't believe that the risk of the virus is that high and would prefer to take that risk than staying in lockdown or having sporadic periods of self-isolation based on you maybe having caught it.

 

Nope.   The effectiveness of the system requires high compliance.    It needs people to have faith in it.    It needs the chains of infection identified and broken... fast.     If you opt out then all you do is avoid personal inconvenience for the short term.    

 

Widespread non observance WILL lead to more lockdown.    No two ways about that.

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Which has all been fecked because of the actions of one man and a weak, incompetent slavering, prejudiced PM and his like minded cabinet.

 

It doesn't need to be ****ed.How about let's not let one man **** it.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Which has all been fecked because of the actions of one man and a weak, incompetent slavering, prejudiced PM and his like minded cabinet.

 

 

That's the reality.    But logically it should be ignored.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

15 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

You do have to self isolate again even if you definitely had it confirmed by a test.You could be asked to self isolate many times with this new system even if you have had confirmed Covid as they have no def way of knowing about immunity.

I will do it for the common good as you could possibly still get a second dose maybe even not know you have it as surely some anti bodies will be in your system and it wont be as bad as the first infection. I dread to think of it being so bad again.

Edited May 28, 2020 by All roads lead to Gorgie

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Nope.   The effectiveness of the system requires high compliance.    It needs people to have faith in it.    It needs the chains of infection identified and broken... fast.     If you opt out then all you do is avoid personal inconvenience for the short term.    

 

Widespread non observance WILL lead to more lockdown.    No two ways about that.

 

What do you mean 'nope'? It's an opinion on someone's reasoning not on how it will work. People could be against lockdown and TTI not because they think they are exempt and that the effort is for others but because they don't believe either are necessary for society, because they don't believe the risk warrants it.

 

Regards the bit in bold, I'm certain that won't play out. I'm certain there will be widespread non-observance and I don't believe it will lead to more lockdown. Even if you get 100% of those with a smartphone to do it you've still got over a quarter of the population not using it...unless they're all concentrated in a tiny area then you've got widespread non-observance straight off the bat.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Taffin

[TheOak88]

37 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its not about Brexit - its the hypocrisy of him setting the rules for everyone and disregarding them to take his wife on a Birthday jolly 250 miles away.

 

It has bugger all to do with childcare as they have relatives within 3 miles of their home.

 

There are defo some people who have been absolutely revelling in his demise. I imagine those are people who already had a dislike for the guy, and this is a great “gotcha” moment for them. 

 

I understand that a lot of people outside of the above are pi$$ed off at the hypocrisy.

[Shanks said no]

25 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

He said yesterday he hopes to have hospitality moving faster and pubs up and running in June

5 live early this morning said 4th July. It would have been my late mother’s 80th birthday and it’s an understatement to say she enjoyed a drink. 

[Francis Albert]

12 hours ago, coconut doug said:

Who is having a go at Westminster?

 

I'm not saying SG should not be criticised.

You are joking. About 90% of this thread has been having a go at the WM Govt. about 2% has involved mild criticism of the Holyrood Govt. Much but not all of the former deserved and more deserved than criticism of the latter, which nevertheless has got off lightly for those mistakes it has made.

[AlimOzturk]

What happens if someone doesn't have a smart phone? Are they going to be classed as selfish? What if someone forgets their mobile phone? What if someone breaks their smart phone and it takes a while to get a replacement or get it fixed? They selfish arseholes as well?

[Brighton Jambo]

22 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Which has all been fecked because of the actions of one man and a weak, incompetent slavering, prejudiced PM and his like minded cabinet.

 

Only if people let it.  Why because he is such a slimy lying rule breaker should we all ignore advice that will help us avoid another lockdown.  
 

the people who are now blaming Cummings for ignoring advice, not following TTI protocols etc are just making an excuse and if it wasn’t that it would be some other reason not to do it (not aiming that at you btw)

 

we can either be like Cunmings and BoJo or be better than them.  

[XB52]

12 hours ago, coconut doug said:

If that's a reference to me then it's misplaced. I'm not and never have praised or defended the S G handling of this crisis.

I have challenged some who have blamed the SG for things not entirely in their control or not entirely their responsibility e.g. care homes.

I picked him up because I don't believe he is correct or fair. His allegation was directed at SG and I merely challenged it. 

It's not defensive either, iget tired of posters making sweeping derogatory statements about Scotland and it's government. I merely try to provide some perspective.

Exactly my thinking. If someone slags off Scotland my automatic reaction is to respond. I've been accused of only attacking these type of posts and not ones having an unjustified go at England or their government. To me it's like asking me why I don't have a go at Hearts fans attacking hibs actions but have a go at undercover hobos.

[The Real Maroonblood]

48 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Saturday 4th July down the road.

 

If the seethe about garden centres is anything to go by then no pubs open in Scotland will see a backlash

Your last sentence is spot on.

[Shanks said no]

45 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Use your own judgement mate and nip over the road to Berwick apon tweed for a few pints and just test your eyesight on the way home. 

or jump on a train at 1006 getting there at 1048, return at 2025, cost approximately £18

 

Buy some off licence booze before returning would pay for the train fare

[TheOak88]

16 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

What happens if someone doesn't have a smart phone? Are they going to be classed as selfish? What if someone forgets their mobile phone? What if someone breaks their smart phone and it takes a while to get a replacement or get it fixed? They selfish arseholes as well?

 

I don’t think you technically need a Smartphone. Just ideally a list of your contacts. 

[Victorian]

21 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What do you mean 'nope'? It's an opinion on someone's reasoning not on how it will work. People could be against lockdown and TTI not because they think they are exempt and that the effort is for others but because they don't believe either are necessary for society, because they don't believe the risk warrants it.

 

Regards the bit in bold, I'm certain that won't play out. I'm certain there will be widespread non-observance and I don't believe it will lead to more lockdown. Even if you get 100% of those with a smartphone to do it you've still got over a quarter of the population not using it...unless they're all concentrated in a tiny area then you've got widespread non-observance straight off the bat.

 

People not believing the risk warrants it is irrelevant.    The individual belief has no bearing whatsoever on the system's purpose or effectiveness.    It simply exists and,   if you proceed on the basis that it IS necessary,   it needs people to observe it.    You do realise that the virus isn't just going to bypass all the non-believers?    

 

The app is a complete irrelevance.    It is not going to be the central tool of the system.    In fact it may well be practically redundant.    The real tracing will be done manually.

 

If you are opposed to lockdown and oppose being bound by the instruction to isolate then you're trying to opt out altogether.     You get asked to isolate... you don't... you infect the next person who may well have faith that the people they are interacting with are not infected.

 

The choice of opting out is not a self contained option to take a personal risk.    It has consequences for others.    Multiply that by 10,000 and we're back in lockdown.

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Multiply that by 10,000 and we're back in lockdown.

After seeing photos from places like Linhope Spout, Richmond Falls and Devil's Bridge last weekend, I think a second wave and another lockdown looks inevitable.