Stevenson article on Shanks

[Hearts1975]

It's a really good read from Stevo. Whether you agree, or disagree, it definitely has a lot of merit 

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/catching-celtic-rangers-hearts-aim-32714587

[Baxfee]

He always writes/talks sense and an ex pro that could really help players along their football path. One of the very few I have time for. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I see what he is saying but if Shanks does his ACL first game then it backfires. It would be a gamble but personally one I would take.

[kingantti1874]

10 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

I see what he is saying but if Shanks does his ACL first game then it backfires. It would be a gamble but personally one I would take.

that can happen to any player at any point.  

[Dazo]

Totally disagree with the theme of the article to be honest. If Shanks leaves the idea we need to replace him with one player is nonsense. We need to replace his goals but that could easily be distributed throughout the team. Yes we we would need a top striker to come in but the rest of the team scoring more goals is achievable. Also the chuck him £500k part that apparently goes straight into his bank. 

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Totally disagree with the theme of the article to be honest. If Shanks leaves the idea we need to replace him with one player is nonsense. We need to replace his goals but that could easily be distributed throughout the team. Yes we we would need a top striker to come in but the rest of the team scoring more goals is achievable. Also the chuck him £500k part that apparently goes straight into his bank. 

Agree with your point, we’d need to sign more than 1 and change the style of play.

 

I’d be amazed if a signing on bonus isn’t part of the deal being negotiated, I live in the same street as a few who who have played for us and one player in particular was paid £200k.  But he wasn’t shanks and it was a decade ago.  After all if you have to give another club £500k then why not.

 

that said,  if there is a bonus the biggest chunk should be a retention bonus. 

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Agree with your point, we’d need to sign more than 1 and change the style of play.

 

I’d be amazed if a signing on bonus isn’t part of the deal being negotiated, I live in the same street as a few who who have played for us and one player in particular was paid £200k.  But he wasn’t shanks and it was a decade ago.  After all if you have to give another club £500k then why not.

 

that said,  if there is a bonus the biggest chunk should be a retention bonus. 

It wasn’t the figure I was laughing at just the mere ignorance to tax on that figure. 

[johnking123]

10k a week. 500k sign on and 4 year deal. Been we would keep him till 33

[jamboozy]

The part where Steve makes a point about the club suiting Shanks and Shanks suiting the club is a big factor in any decisions being made. While it’s true that money matters and makes you more comfortable, it’s not everything.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Good piece by Stevo

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

I see what he is saying but if Shanks does his ACL first game then it backfires. It would be a gamble but personally one I would take.

Newcastle spent £15M to get Alan Shearer from Blackburn, then lost him for about a year to serious injury. Every player no matter the price is a gamble.

[TexasAndy]

Problem is it's not just down to money.  Shankland may have ambitions of playing at a higher level be that the Old Firm or down south.  We could throw as much money as we like at him but he may want to leave anyway.

[hmfc_liam06]

If we're not offering players contracts for fear of injury then we'd be as well just shutting down the club.

 

FFS

[johnking123]

Shankland has not had many injuries. That's a big plus about him. Hopefully I have not just doomed him 🙄🤞🤞

[boag1874]

10 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

If we're not offering players contracts for fear of injury then we'd be as well just shutting down the club.

 

FFS

Ageee, if theres a player that’s ever been worth pushing the boat out for then it’s Shanks. Injuries could happen to anyone and he’s no history of serious injury afaik so I’d think he’s deemed low risk.

 

As long as we’re careful enough with it so that it doesn’t blow the entire wage structure of the club to bits then why wouldn’t we offer him a higher contract than we usually would for a guy with his ability. We’re going to struggle to replace him so if there’s a deal to do then lets do it.

[Gorgie_Rules]

Don’t think cash is Shankland’s main motivation to be honest or he would have signed one of the offers we gave him in January.

 

He’s clearly wanting to keep his options open to see who is interested after the Euros. With the season he has had and one year left you can understand sacrificing the money from January to the summer to potentially have some great offers on the table, both in terms of size of club and financially.

 

In our favour is that he is clearly settled here and will likely keep his place in the Scotland team, he’ll be top earner, and crucially at his age there isn’t going to be much sell on value for who takes him next. 
 

With £5million European group stage cash at stake again next season, that should be our starting figure this summer, if no club is willing to pay that then they can have him at the end of next season when out of contract.

[Hearts1975]

There was a piece the other day when shanks was interviewed himself. Pretty sure everyone will have read it, but it was almost suggestive that if he was part of the plan moving forward, then he wouldn't be unhappy 

He wouldn't have said, what he said, if he desperately wanted to move. 

Given the previous discussions on his contract reached a stalling point in Jan, it almost feels a like he is saying that the ball is still in hearts  court in terms of what happens. 

Could be wrong, but you can't replace what he gives us for a few quid ... That said, agree with those that have made a pertinent point, that our team play is based on getting the most out of one player. 

Very much a stick or twist scenario imo 

Edited May 2 by Hearts1975

[Bob Loblaw]

I think there's a fair bit merit in it. I don't think Rangers will come knocking, not at a price we'd accept anyway. 

 

He might get a move to Emgland at more money, but it could be one contract and there's a risk it's the wrong move.

 

Top earner at Hearts, long term deal, good signing on fee and maybe even a loyalty bonus.  He'd be involved with Scotland,  family would be settled and he'd be adored and welcome pretty much the rest of his life.

[Bazzas right boot]

 

 

Hopefully Shankland stays and thinks like this , but a club like Rangers could chuck a £1m signing on fee at him and pay him more money and give him a bigger platform to win trophies and to play in Europe more if he goes there on a Bosman.

That ofc would likley be at the expense of less playing time.

 

A Move ( or commute) to Glasgow wouldn't unsettle his family either.

The unsettled family and move to a club that doesn't work out only applies if he moves abroad, but if he leaves for rangers (or celtic) the cultural, lifestyle impact on him and his family and therefor risk is minimal with greater financial rewards.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Bazzas right boot

[I P Knightley]

53 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

The part where Steve makes a point about the club suiting Shanks and Shanks suiting the club is a big factor in any decisions being made. While it’s true that money matters and makes you more comfortable, it’s not everything.

There are numerous examples of star players leaving a settled, successful environment to go to a 'bigger' club, only to find that for whatever reason, they can't do what they were doing with the club they just left. Robbo to Newcastle was one; Jadon Sancho to Man Utd a more recent one. 

 

That said, if the financial offer is big enough, it's a gamble worth taking. 

 

26 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

Problem is it's not just down to money.  Shankland may have ambitions of playing at a higher level be that the Old Firm or down south.  We could throw as much money as we like at him but he may want to leave anyway.

Apologies for being a pedant, here.

Playing at the Old Firm is not playing at a higher level. It's being paid more money to play at the same level. You've still got to turn out against Motherwell, Kilmarnock, etc. week-in-week-out, but with more wins. It's not a challenge and I'd like to think that a player of Shankland's quality and professionalism will have one eye on having the weekly challenge that makes him become a better player. 

 

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

All makes sense - to me at least.

 

Offer him 500k sign on bonus, 12k a week for the next 4 years, 5k a goal bonus and 200k per year for 3rd place/Euro group qualification.

 

He makes 4.2m, a club legend in place where he just seems to click, family settled, regular contender for Scotland and a pathway into coaching when the above ends at 33 (and/or he can keep playing if still where he needs to be form and fitness wise),

 

We get 6 seasons of a 25+ goal a season striker, 5 years of Euro group football (30 million plus?) and a linchpin in the spine of the team to build around with some continuity; and no need to pay money on a replacement that might not work.

 

I can’t see anyone matching that, and I can’t see why we can’t offer that.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

There are numerous examples of star players leaving a settled, successful environment to go to a 'bigger' club, only to find that for whatever reason, they can't do what they were doing with the club they just left. Robbo to Newcastle was one; Jadon Sancho to Man Utd a more recent one. 

 

That said, if the financial offer is big enough, it's a gamble worth taking. 

 

Apologies for being a pedant, here.

Playing at the Old Firm is not playing at a higher level. It's being paid more money to play at the same level. You've still got to turn out against Motherwell, Kilmarnock, etc. week-in-week-out, but with more wins. It's not a challenge and I'd like to think that a player of Shankland's quality and professionalism will have one eye on having the weekly challenge that makes him become a better player. 

 

 

Ucl, europa knockout , more trophies, playing in front of more home fans - higher level, just like we're a higher level than livi/ Ross county etc despite being in the same league.

 

Players would view it as a higher level.

Paid more as well.

 

[I P Knightley]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Ucl, europa knockout , more trophies, playing in front of more home fans - higher level, just like we're a higher level than livi/ Ross county etc despite being in the same league.

 

Players would view it as a higher level.

Paid more as well.

 

I guess I'm comparing it to a move south. If, say, Brentford came in for him, despite being a smaller ground than Tynie and not having any European football, I'd still count the week-in-week-out games as putting him at a higher level.

[jock _turd]

Might sound strange but I would take the highest bid we get for him, if we get one. Shankland has had a purple patch he has never had at the highest level before . Like all players that could change and he could start misfiring again. If and it is a very big if we were to get a really big offer in excess of 5 million we could use that money to buy up some good young Scottish players from around the SPL and try a to build a team. For the the record I do not think we are going to a big offer for him.

I will get pelters but for me Shankland is or has been really good for us and has done really well in the SPL but personally I do not think he has the football for a high level team and by that I mean English PL or championship

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I guess I'm comparing it to a move south. If, say, Brentford came in for him, despite being a smaller ground than Tynie and not having any European football, I'd still count the week-in-week-out games as putting him at a higher level.

 

That would be as well.

Lots of higher levels for a player than 3rd in the Scottish league, unfortunately! 

Edited May 2 by Bazzas right boot

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I think our team know what they are doing, they won't need advice from the Record

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

Might sound strange but I would take the highest bid we get for him, if we get one. Shankland has had a purple patch he has never had at the highest level before . Like all players that could change and he could start misfiring again. If and it is a very big if we were to get a really big offer in excess of 5 million we could use that money to buy up some good young Scottish players from around the SPL and try a to build a team. For the the record I do not think we are going to a big offer for him.

I will get pelters but for me Shankland is or has been really good for us and has done really well in the SPL but personally I do not think he has the football for a high level team and by that I mean English PL or championship

 

If a club bids £5m for Shankland in his last year of his contract,  Hearts will wish him well and say farewell!

 

But, he can sign an extension which keeps him with us after next season and we can still sell if a large bid comes in.

 

Him extending does not mean we wouldn't sell him, especially if a bid like £5m comes in, it just stops him leaving for hee haw in a years time or for a cut price fee in 7 months.

 

 

Edited May 2 by Bazzas right boot

[GavK1012]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

that can happen to any player at any point.  

Aye but not breaking wage structures for one player is the point made there...

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

It wasn’t the figure I was laughing at just the mere ignorance to tax on that figure. 

👍🏻 yep .

 

Maybe could set up an EBT 

Edited May 2 by kingantti1874

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

If a club bids £5m for Shankland in his last year of his contract,  Hearts will wish him well and say farewell!

 

But, he can sign an extension which keeps us with us after next season and we can still sell if a large bid comes in.

 

Him extending does not mean we wouldn't sell him, especially if a bid like £5m comes in, it just stops him leaving for hee haw in a years time or for a cut price fee in 7 months.

 

 

I agree but I don’t think it will happen.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, GavK1012 said:

Aye but not breaking wage structures for one player is the point made there...

 

Do you "break" the wage structure or just ammend it so it accommodates better players and helps us retain and recruit better players so the team gets better.

 

The wage structure can't stay the same.

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I agree but I don’t think it will happen.

 

 

 

Me neither, if he's not signed an extension or been sold in the summer I see no alternative to him other than Rocking up in Glasgow on a free in a years time. 

 

I will cry.

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Bazzas right boot

[karipidis]

I think Shankland is very settled at the club, I am not convinced that many teams will be willing to pay the £3-4 million fee we would be looking for. 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

Problem is it's not just down to money.  Shankland may have ambitions of playing at a higher level be that the Old Firm or down south.  We could throw as much money as we like at him but he may want to leave anyway.

You are right, of course.

Hearts could be comfortable, though, in the knowledge that they had made their best attempt at persuading him to sign a new contract.

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

10k a week. 500k sign on and 4 year deal. Been we would keep him till 33

 

He could potentially get £20k a week elsewhere though.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

He would have been silly to sign the contract extension with us in January. The potential game changer for him is the Euros in the summer. If he makes an impression and scores a couple of goals offers will

come in that we can neither match or refuse in terms of the transfer fee.

 

If he doesn’t create an impression then I think there’s a more than decent chance he’ll sign the contract extension we put to him in January in whatever reshaped form it is given to him.

[davemclaren]

He said at last week's HMSA dinner that this is his last major desl and he needs to think about his family. He didn't indicate he was leaving but I feel if we/he get an 'acceptable' offer he'll be off. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, davemclaren said:

He said at last week's HMSA dinner that this is his last major desl and he needs to think about his family. He didn't indicate he was leaving but I feel if we/he get an 'acceptable' offer he'll be off. 

of course, but as you say Dave the offer needs to be acceptable for us as well.

 

£2m no thanks. Hes worth more on the pitch in terms of results and potential prize money.  
 

£5m then yes we would sell without doubt.

 

If we don’t receive an acceptable bid, I don’t think it would be a smart move on his behalf to run down his contract if we offered a good deal with great security.   Say we offered him - signing on bonus and £13k per week.  Would he really want to sit on his current wage for a year.  ? 
 

I’d offer the lad the security he  needs, with a reasonable buy out clause which suits both parties.  

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

of course, but as you say Dave the offer needs to be acceptable for us as well.

 

£2m no thanks. Hes worth more on the pitch in terms of results and potential prize money.  
 

£5m then yes we would sell without doubt.

 

If we don’t receive an acceptable bid, I don’t think it would be a smart move on his behalf to run down his contract if we offered a good deal with great security.   Say we offered him - signing on bonus and £13k per week.  Would he really want to sit on his current wage for a year.  ? 
 

I’d offer the lad the security he  needs, with a reasonable buy out clause which suits both parties.  

It will certainly be an interesting window. 

[Bull's-eye]

Judging by his recent performances I would be looking to get rid while he still has some value. 

 

With that in mind, I think the player has decided already what his next move is.

[Daveandal]

59 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Ucl, europa knockout , more trophies, playing in front of more home fans - higher level, just like we're a higher level than livi/ Ross county etc despite being in the same league.

 

Players would view it as a higher level.

Paid more as well.

 

 

I think most players would view it as a higher level but not all.

 

Eion Jess refused to go to Rangers for the very reason that it might be more money but its just the same league and if I'm to stay in that league I might as well stay at a club that loves me.

 

Maybe an odd exception to the rule.

[Daveandal]

3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Judging by his recent performances I would be looking to get rid while he still has some value. 

 

With that in mind, I think the player has decided already what his next move is.

 

Agreed. 28 goals isn't good enough. Bin him now.

[Bunny Munro]

16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

He said at last week's HMSA dinner that this is his last major desl and he needs to think about his family. He didn't indicate he was leaving but I feel if we/he get an 'acceptable' offer he'll be off. 

 

I'm not someone to whine about footballers wages, and I understand where he's coming from, but if hearts can offer £500,000 signing on fee that's a very nice house mortgage free right out the gate. Plus doubling his current salary on top. His family will be fine.

 

 

[May one-six]

58 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

Might sound strange but I would take the highest bid we get for him, if we get one. Shankland has had a purple patch he has never had at the highest level before . Like all players that could change and he could start misfiring again. If and it is a very big if we were to get a really big offer in excess of 5 million we could use that money to buy up some good young Scottish players from around the SPL and try a to build a team. For the the record I do not think we are going to a big offer for him.

I will get pelters but for me Shankland is or has been really good for us and has done really well in the SPL but personally I do not think he has the football for a high level team and by that I mean English PL or championship

I must admit, I am tending towards the sell argument too. In the last few games Shankland has seemed a bit off it. I don't know if that's exhaustion (he has played a lot of games) or a sign that his head's not in it. It makes sense for us to take a wad of cash for him, if we can get it, and use that to strengthen the team in the midfield/forward areas. What we don't want to do is arrange a situation where we are chucking oodles of cash at one player who fancied a challenge elsewhere but couldn't resist the money we were offering. I'd prefer having someone who's really keen to stay and keep developing/challenging himself.

  

[Carter]

Not sure Rangers or Celtic are interested in Shankland. 

[WorldChampions1902]

Fair play to Stevenson. A well-thought out and well-written article. 👏

[Bull's-eye]

Not sure in the article why Stevenson doesn't use his own circumstances when he dumped Hearts for Ipswich for the money as an example.

 

That would have added something interesting.

[chrystaf]

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

Problem is it's not just down to money.  Shankland may have ambitions of playing at a higher level be that the Old Firm or down south.  We could throw as much money as we like at him but he may want to leave anyway.

Most telling point for me was Shank's saying he thought his age would deter clubs from bidding as they would not see any sell on benefit.

IMO I don't see any interested clubs seeing that as a deterrent, but is it an indication that he may think that what he has now is the best option for him. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

37 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Judging by his recent performances I would be looking to get rid while he still has some value. 

 

With that in mind, I think the player has decided already what his next move is.

The bit in bold is a pertinant point. He had a poor patch at the start of the season then caught fire. He missed that chance for Scotland v Netherlands and imo his form has slipped a notch since. I wouldn't agree on the getting rid part though. He stays a year, gets us group European football again and that's £5 Million in value right there. If he decides to leave after that then we wish him good luck (except if he's off down the M8). 

 

The Euros will be key. I don't think Clarke will start him in the group stage (especially on his current form) and if he struggles to feature the expected demand for him will decrease. As much as I want Scotland to do well, this scenario might help Hearts.

[davemclaren]

42 minutes ago, Bunny Munro said:

 

I'm not someone to whine about footballers wages, and I understand where he's coming from, but if hearts can offer £500,000 signing on fee that's a very nice house mortgage free right out the gate. Plus doubling his current salary on top. His family will be fine.

 

 

It's all relative. 😎