Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[dobmisterdobster]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think she tried to manage a transitional exit for Calderwood for continuity,   in the context of how important the job is.    Then realised it had to be more decisive and immediate.     I think the benefit of doubt can be given.

 

If the media drags out the attention beyond today then they're blithering idiots.    It's unimportant compared to the task at hand.

 

I agree that the media is being unusually toxic in a crisis like this. However there is no question she had to go. She breached public trust in a big way.

[East Lothian Jambo]

15 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

 

This.

 

Sturgeon herself said this morning she isn't interested in political spin right now, which media outlets and others seem to be obsessed by.

 

 

 

 

Why has she kept Pennington at arms length?

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Coronavirus: Pastor who decried 'hysteria' dies after attending Mardi Gras

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52157824

 

Excerpt:

 

Pastor Spradlin was one of those who became ill, but tested negative for Covid-19. Even as he was sick, he posted on social media about "hysteria" surrounding the virus.

On the 13th of March Pastor Spradlin shared on Facebook a misleading post comparing swine flu and coronavirus deaths. It suggested that Barack Obama and Donald Trump respectively had been treated very differently by the media and that it was a politically motivated ploy to harm President Trump. Earlier the very same day, the president himself had insinuated something very similar at a news conference...

He won’t be the last 🙈.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That made me laugh " a gynecologist to trade" ,  I cant imagine she is asked what her " trade " is when shes at a dinner party in the New town ...LOL 

Ideal person to have in a crisis.  She'll be used to staring into the abyss on a regular basis.

[scott herbertson]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Didn't she initially offer to resign and Nicola refused to accept it ?. Sacking her immediately wasn't necessary although if it had been done it would have been viewed as absolutely reasonable in the event of any "legal scrutiny". 

I haven't seen anything from either to say that she offered to resign initially. Have you a link to this?

 

They talked it over and if I had been in the FMs place I would have been ''encouraging;' a resignation but I'm not aware she actually offered to resign..

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Fun Boaby said:

Ideal person to have in a crisis.  She'll be used to staring into the abyss on a regular basis.

lol

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Why has she kept Pennington at arms length?

 

You mean the 81-year old retired specialist in bacteriology who hasn't been immersed in virology for decades and who tends to be outspoken to the extent that he would risk becoming the personal centre of attention, thus deflecting the common message of the national effort? That one?

 

And anyway. how do you know that she has kept him at arm's length? You have no idea. He just hadn't been in the public spotlight, and, although I appreciate Hugh a great deal, that's perhaps a good thing.

[redjambo]

Why are folk still talking about Catherine Calderwood? She has gone. Let's move on. We have a pandemic to beat.

[jambogaza]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You mean the 81-year old retired specialist in bacteriology who hasn't been immersed in virology for decades and who tends to be outspoken to the extent that he would risk becoming the personal centre of attention, thus deflecting the common message of the national effort? That one?

 

And anyway. how do you know that she has kept him at arm's length? You have no idea. He just hadn't been in the public spotlight, and, although I appreciate Hugh a great deal, that's perhaps a good thing.

 

You're right but best to ignore it, usual suspects flooding a thread with their political innuendos.

[East Lothian Jambo]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You mean the 81-year old retired specialist in bacteriology who hasn't been immersed in virology for decades and who tends to be outspoken to the extent that he would risk becoming the personal centre of attention, thus deflecting the common message of the national effort? That one?

 

And anyway. how do you know that she has kept him at arm's length? You have no idea. He just hadn't been in the public spotlight, and, although I appreciate Hugh a great deal, that's perhaps a good thing.

We certainly wouldn't want anyone to fulfil such a role 

[indianajones]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Why are folk still talking about Catherine Calderwood? She has gone. Let's move on. We have a pandemic to beat.

 

It is rather boring. 

 

Pushing agendas and all that. 

[Spellczech]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

Or the opposite. Oxygen can really make a difference and is all that’s needed when you are struggling. 

Not if you reach ICU - My wife was looking after a guy who was sedated and 6 pumps were keeping him going. Only one was Oxygen.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

We certainly wouldn't want anyone to fulfil such a role 

 

Indeed.

[East Lothian Jambo]

Just now, jambogaza said:

 

You're right but best to ignore it, usual suspects flooding a thread with their political innuendos.

The gravity of this situation is such that the very best and most able and learned people should be involved in the fight against this pandemic. Political views are inconsequential 

 

I very much hope that's the case 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Why are folk still talking about Catherine Calderwood? She has gone. Let's move on. We have a pandemic to beat.

agendas agendas !

[scottishguy]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Why are care home residents getting blamed for carers getting Ill. They don't leave the homes, the workers do.

 

 The residents had been getting visitors up until the lockdown started. More chance of their family members bringing it into the care home rather than the carers. 

 

The carers are putting their lifes and their own partners and family at risk too, so they can look after other people's parents, when they cant even see their own family members.

 

My partner and her sister are care workers and it is very worrying for all who work there and their families too.

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Not if you reach ICU - My wife was looking after a guy who was sedated and 6 pumps were keeping him going. Only one was Oxygen.

No doubt, I was meaning before it gets to that stage which I assume Boris is. 

[Dazo]

Double post. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Dazo

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Why are folk still talking about Catherine Calderwood? She has gone. Let's move on. We have a pandemic to beat.

 

Nicola on now

 

Dr Gregor Smith Depute Chief Medical Officer now Interim Chief Officer 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, scottishguy said:

 

 The residents had been getting visitors up until the lockdown started. More chance of their family members bringing it into the care home rather than the carers. 

 

The carers are putting their lifes and their own partners and family at risk too, so they can look after other people's parents, when they cant even see their own family members.

 

My partner and her sister are care workers and it is very worrying for all who work there and their families too.

Very true. They really are putting themselves at risk.  A big thank you to them. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

7 minutes ago, scottishguy said:

 

 The residents had been getting visitors up until the lockdown started. More chance of their family members bringing it into the care home rather than the carers. 

 

The carers are putting their lifes and their own partners and family at risk too, so they can look after other people's parents, when they cant even see their own family members.

 

My partner and her sister are care workers and it is very worrying for all who work there and their families too.

 

Certainly not in West Lothian council run care homes. They've been on lockdown since the 13th March.

[Mikey1874]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Very true. They really are putting themselves at risk.  A big thank you to them. 

 

Care worker reported dead today

[Mikey1874]

Deaths in community (not hospital) will be reported on Wednesday.

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

I haven't seen anything from either to say that she offered to resign initially. Have you a link to this?

 

They talked it over and if I had been in the FMs place I would have been ''encouraging;' a resignation but I'm not aware she actually offered to resign..

I certainly heard it in one of the TV news reports - BBC national I think. Frankly I would find it astonishing if she had not offered to resign or been invited to resign. I take the point about sudden change in the middle of the crisis but this could easily have been managed by resignation but staying for an agreed handover to her successor or even beyond that in a subsidiary role if Calderwood has something  unique or very valuable to contribute. 

Anyway by all accounts (reaching even the deep south) Nicola is having a good crisis so I agree with moving on. I only posted because the first thing I read was more excuses for the way the whole thing was handled.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Francis Albert

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

agendas agendas !

 

Really? Honestly with some of the folk on here who persist in interjecting their political opinions and agendas everywhere, it's almost like they're addicted to it, like they just can't put their politics out of their mind for a second, or even for a pandemic. As Trump would say: So sad. Hope you're keeping well, James.

[Mikey1874]

 

 

[scott herbertson]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I certainly heard it in one of the TV news reports - BBC national I think. Frankly I would find it astonishing if she had not offered to resign or been invited to resign. I take the point about sudden change in the middle of the crisis but this could easily have been managed by resignation but staying for an agreed handover to her successor. 

Anyway by all accounts (reaching even the deep south) Nicola is having a good crisis so I agree with moving on. I only posted because the first thing I read was more excuses for the way the whole thing was handled.

I agree with you she should have resigned, and had I been  FM I would have encouraged it - just picking up on the statement that she offered to - I can't see that confirmed.

 

Anyway she's paid the price and to move on, the latest figures being given out just now are on the surface looking positive in terms of the trend. I think we have been lucky in that the lockdown came early enough for holidaymakers to not have come up from London and overseas hot spots in significant numbers

[Jambof3tornado]

15 minutes ago, scottishguy said:

 

 The residents had been getting visitors up until the lockdown started. More chance of their family members bringing it into the care home rather than the carers. 

 

The carers are putting their lifes and their own partners and family at risk too, so they can look after other people's parents, when they cant even see their own family members.

 

My partner and her sister are care workers and it is very worrying for all who work there and their families too.

I was in several care homes 3 weeks ago(through work) and they were worrying then about having to self isolate patients that wander. Its not unusual for vascular dementia residents to find themselves in the wrong rooms etc. Minimum standards of ppe in homes etc was also a big issue. If they get 1 resident with covid its going to be very hard to contain things.

 

Its hard going at the best of times.

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Deaths in community (not hospital) will be reported on Wednesday.

 

With that and the reduced stats over the weekend, I would have thought that in this day and age we could have been more efficient with the reporting and data collection - it's important for keeping on top of this thing. At this rate, it's almost getting like only the weekly stats will have any relevance.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Really? Honestly with some of the folk on here who persist in interjecting their political opinions and agendas everywhere, it's almost like they're addicted to it, like they just can't put their politics out of their mind for a second, or even for a pandemic. As Trump would say: So sad. Hope you're keeping well, James.

Hi Im doing fine . starting 4th week of lockdown ! yes I have delibrately tried not to get involved in any political talk.  Lets have an inquest about that topic after its all over ?   We all need to just concentrate in fighting this thing.  Wasted  energy on political scoring achieves nothing at the present time. 

[scott herbertson]

Just now, Jambof3tornado said:

I was in several care homes 3 weeks ago(through work) and they were worrying then about having to self isolate patients that wander. Its not unusual for vascular dementia residents to find themselves in the wrong rooms etc. Minimum standards of ppe in homes etc was also a big issue. If they get 1 resident with covid its going to be very hard to contain things.

 

Its hard going at the best of times.

 

 

Yes - very tough for staff in these settings. Often very low paid, having to travel in on public transport and high potential exposure with limited protection.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Hi Im doing fine . starting 4th week of lockdown ! yes I have delibrately tried not to get involved in any political talk.  Lets have an inquest about that topic after its all over ?   We all need to just concentrate in fighting this thing.  Wasted  energy on political scoring achieves nothing at the present time. 

 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I was in several care homes 3 weeks ago(through work) and they were worrying then about having to self isolate patients that wander. Its not unusual for vascular dementia residents to find themselves in the wrong rooms etc. Minimum standards of ppe in homes etc was also a big issue. If they get 1 resident with covid its going to be very hard to contain things.

 

Its hard going at the best of times.

Virtually impossible to manage effectively for people with dementia I would think.  

[Cade]

"I didn’t try to defend what she’d done because I didn’t think she should or can be defended.

Last night, it became clear to me, and it became clear to her, that actually however valid that reason was, the bigger risk if she stayed in office was that important message could be undermined and that was not a risk either of us were willing to take."
"We had a long conversation last night, and it was my view, but she came to the same view.

So we came to that by mutual agreement, but it was my firm view by last night that that was the correct course of action.

She made a serious error of judgement and she has paid the price for that."

 

Read between the lines, people.

NS is as good as openly saying "I asked her to resign"

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

With that and the reduced stats over the weekend, I would have thought that in this day and age we could have been more efficient with the reporting and data collection - it's important for keeping on top of this thing. At this rate, it's almost getting like only the weekly stats will have any relevance.

 

On UK BBC news guy doing a summary said there are issues and delays in reporting deaths. Can take weeks. 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

"I didn’t try to defend what she’d done because I didn’t think she should or can be defended.

Last night, it became clear to me, and it became clear to her, that actually however valid that reason was, the bigger risk if she stayed in office was that important message could be undermined and that was not a risk either of us were willing to take."
"We had a long conversation last night, and it was my view, but she came to the same view.

So we came to that by mutual agreement, but it was my firm view by last night that that was the correct course of action.

She made a serious error of judgement and she has paid the price for that."

 

Read between the lines, people.

NS is as good as openly saying "I asked her to resign"

 

"We were hammered at that press conference. This isn't going away" 

[Cade]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

On UK BBC news guy doing a summary said there are issues and delays in reporting deaths. Can take weeks. 

Yes, so we can't use the daily figures to model or predict anything, as they're not actually DAILY figures.

The whole thing has been half-arsed from the very start.

 

[jambopilms]

I wish she would just say, she made an error and has rightly resigned . Answer no more questions on it.

Same questions over and over it's not important and it just fuels our country's thirst for finger pointing and playing the blame game. It's done and far more important things to think about now.

[Bongo 1874]

[pablo]

No comment on if Calderwood will receive a pay off

[The Internet]

So that's 4 deaths in the last 2 days after about 90 in the previous 2 days? Doesn't seem right. 

[DETTY29]

19 minutes ago, Cade said:

"I didn’t try to defend what she’d done because I didn’t think she should or can be defended.

Last night, it became clear to me, and it became clear to her, that actually however valid that reason was, the bigger risk if she stayed in office was that important message could be undermined and that was not a risk either of us were willing to take."
"We had a long conversation last night, and it was my view, but she came to the same view.

So we came to that by mutual agreement, but it was my firm view by last night that that was the correct course of action.

She made a serious error of judgement and she has paid the price for that."

 

Read between the lines, people.

NS is as good as openly saying "I asked her to resign"

Philip Sim from BBC is saying along lines of

 

This is clear Sturgeon sacked Calderwood.

 

It will of course by like all top business or public people that they need to resign instead and be offered a severance package.

 

And the FM has just said she made it clear last night to the CMO that she had to resign.

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

So that's 4 deaths in the last 2 days after about 90 in the previous 2 days? Doesn't seem right. 

It is the way they are recorded with dept closed over the weekend that they are getting info from, numbers will catch up tomorrow and Wednesday.

Edited April 6, 2020 by steve123

[DETTY29]

Just now, Mauricio Pinilla said:

So that's 4 deaths in the last 2 days after about 90 in the previous 2 days? Doesn't seem right. 

The method of reporting deaths has changed and will now be reported via the National Registery Office (?) which is closed at weekends.

 

There will be a catch up tomorrow, Wednesday.

 

The NRO will then move to a 7 day service.

 

 

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

So that's 4 deaths in the last 2 days after about 90 in the previous 2 days? Doesn't seem right. 

 

Under-reported due to more limited information gathering on the weekend. The same occurred last weekend. Expect to see a rise in the stats on Tuesday and Wednesday as the data filters through.

[DETTY29]

19 minutes ago, pablo said:

No comment on if Calderwood will receive a pay off

She will.

 

Its just the way of life.

[East Lothian Jambo]

26 minutes ago, pablo said:

No comment on if Calderwood will receive a pay off

Not really that important 

[Jambof3tornado]

The deaths figures quoted the last 2 days have been explained as well below the real figures so be prepared for a rather big jump, possibly a 3 figure increase given models used.

[Jambof3tornado]

24 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

The method of reporting deaths has changed and will now be reported via the National Registery Office (?) which is closed at weekends.

 

There will be a catch up tomorrow, Wednesday.

 

The NRO will then move to a 7 day service.

 

 

Cant believe its taken 2 weeks to get the NRO to move to a 7 day service.

[ri Alban]

Tony Lloyd MP isn't too well either.