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Friends in England are saying that all their local parks are rammed with twats sunbathing, having parties and feckin barbecues.

 

:seething:

 

They're only going to make the lockdown drag on for far longer than it would have done if they'd just stayed in.

If everybody stopped acting the twat then it'd last for three to four weeks then we'd slowly get back to normal.

It's going to last all summer due to these pricks.

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Jambo-Jimbo

Glimmer of hope, Italy has seen a reduction in deaths and infections, 525 deaths in the 24 hrs.

Can't believe that this is anything to take anything positive from as it's still horrendus totals, but I think (I hope) yous know what I mean.

 

That is now several days were the death rates have steadily gone down, so maybe the rest of the World can look at Italy and see where they themselves might be in a few weeks down the line. 

 

Italy has had a total lock-down for around 4 weeks now, so I'd reckon in another 3 or 4 weeks they might be in a position to begin to ease the lock-down in stages, so it's maybe looking like 2 or 3 maybe 4 months and things might have reached the stage of some partial normality.

 

If things follow suit in Spain in the next week or two, then we'll know.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Glimmer of hope, Italy has seen a reduction in deaths and infections, 525 deaths in the 24 hrs.

Can't believe that this is anything to take anything positive from as it's still horrendus totals, but I think (I hope) yous know what I mean.

 

That is now several days were the death rates have steadily gone down, so maybe the rest of the World can look at Italy and see where they themselves might be in a few weeks down the line. 

 

Italy has had a total lock-down for around 4 weeks now, so I'd reckon in another 3 or 4 weeks they might be in a position to begin to ease the lock-down in stages, so it's maybe looking like 2 or 3 maybe 4 months and things might have reached the stage of some partial normality.

 

If things follow suit in Spain in the next week or two, then we'll know.

 

 

Logic would say that this should be the pattern. The people that are dying will unfortunately be the ones that caught it before lockdown procedures and spread it around their family members during lockdown. It SHOULD slow down and eventually disappear all together with no losses. The problem will be getting back to normal and then another outbreak happening. I don't think anyone knows how to go about getting back to normality without that risk 

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Tommy Brown
42 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

She ****ed up but don't think she deserves the sack. She has apologised, been warned by the police and publicity suffered. Think enough is enough now. 

All very well AO

 

but now when you see her on adverts for "Stay at Home", they are going to look pretty hollow.

 

monumental bit of arrogance, I'm afraid.

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44 minutes ago, Jap Jambo said:

Absolutely outrageous that the CMO hasn't resigned or indeed been fired. Not sure I can remember such a piece of blatant hypocrisy from a public official.

No, but there's been an outrageous action made by the heir to the throne by travelling the length of the country (with wife and staff) whilst displaying symptoms (later tested positive) of the virus.

The CMO made a mistake of judgement, that's all. Nobody caught the virus or died due to her actions. Charles could easily have passed on the virus to anyone he came in contact with on that unnecessary journey or at the hospital in Aberdeen where he was tested. Seems he's got off scot free from any criticism

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Just now, Musemic said:

No, but there's been an outrageous action made by the heir to the throne by travelling the length of the country (with wife and staff) whilst displaying symptoms (later tested positive) of the virus.

The CMO made a mistake of judgement, that's all. Nobody caught the virus or died due to her actions. Charles could easily have passed on the virus to anyone he came in contact with on that unnecessary journey or at the hospital in Aberdeen where he was tested. Seems he's got off scot free from any criticism

Why the need to minimise what she’s done or indeed to compare her to someone else who did the wrong thing?

 

She’s an absolute clown. Happy to dish out advice but obviously feels it doesn’t apply to her.

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I think after the peak / plateau has gone past,   a wholesale unlocking of the lockdown can only lead to another wave.    The government would be quite content to hold station with the current lockdown 'lite' as it is producing what was needed.   To flatten the peak and cases to undershoot resources.   It's also likely to ensure that the infection continues to widen (as it must) and the country moves gradually to widespread exposure.    But this could take months to see out and the economic situation becomes increasingly unsustainable.   It's not known if immunity will remain long enough to get through to a vaccine.

 

It's a bit of a puzzle with no best case solution.

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6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Why the need to minimise what she’s done or indeed to compare her to someone else who did the wrong thing?

 

She’s an absolute clown. Happy to dish out advice but obviously feels it doesn’t apply to her.

1 million percent this, she is clearly not a stupid women but my God has lost her common sense !!

Edited by steve123
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10 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

All very well AO

 

but now when you see her on adverts for "Stay at Home", they are going to look pretty hollow.

 

monumental bit of arrogance, I'm afraid.

 

They and her public appearances are being withdraw n.

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2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Glimmer of hope, Italy has seen a reduction in deaths and infections, 525 deaths in the 24 hrs.

Can't believe that this is anything to take anything positive from as it's still horrendus totals, but I think (I hope) yous know what I mean.

 

That is now several days were the death rates have steadily gone down, so maybe the rest of the World can look at Italy and see where they themselves might be in a few weeks down the line. 

 

Italy has had a total lock-down for around 4 weeks now, so I'd reckon in another 3 or 4 weeks they might be in a position to begin to ease the lock-down in stages, so it's maybe looking like 2 or 3 maybe 4 months and things might have reached the stage of some partial normality.

 

If things follow suit in Spain in the next week or two, then we'll know.

 

Unless someone finds a vaccine, the same problems will be present. 

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Japan Jambo
14 minutes ago, Musemic said:

No, but there's been an outrageous action made by the heir to the throne by travelling the length of the country (with wife and staff) whilst displaying symptoms (later tested positive) of the virus.

The CMO made a mistake of judgement, that's all. Nobody caught the virus or died due to her actions. Charles could easily have passed on the virus to anyone he came in contact with on that unnecessary journey or at the hospital in Aberdeen where he was tested. Seems he's got off scot free from any criticism

Charles didn't set the rules the CMO did, Charles didn't tell us every night to stay and home and specifically not to go to holiday homes/caravans etc. the CMO did. I'm not going to defend Charles' actions for one second but also have no time for false equivalence and whataboutery. She is way out of line, but of course we should agree to disagree.

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North Yorkshire Police have been turning people away from Malham Cove today, walkers from Leeds, Bradford, Keighley and Oldham.

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37 minutes ago, Cade said:

Friends in England are saying that all their local parks are rammed with twats sunbathing, having parties and feckin barbecues.

 

:seething:

 

They're only going to make the lockdown drag on for far longer than it would have done if they'd just stayed in.

If everybody stopped acting the twat then it'd last for three to four weeks then we'd slowly get back to normal.

It's going to last all summer due to these pricks.

 

Still too cold here 

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Have to be honest first thing I want to see is kids being allowed to play together again, I think either they were kept at school far too long or it has minimal effect and I fall on the side of the first one.

 

Our street decided they would have an adult drink at 4.30 today staying the distance apart "" problem is for 2 weeks we have been telling the same kids they cant see each other and can only skype disappointed to be honest ( and these folks are my friends ) 

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joondalupjambo

If the stats show that Scotland is behaving better than England in relation to the lockdown, not sure if we are or not but based on population size we could be.  What happens if Boris says total lock down because of a minority down south behaving badly.

 

I am not trying to score political points here but why should Scots or indeed Welsh or Irish be subject to even more stringent rules if they are currently doing what they have been asked to do.

 

Is there a way that an increased lock down be done by region and/ or area?

 

Was this what they were talking about when Hancock mentioned immunity passports for example?

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43 minutes ago, Cade said:

Friends in England are saying that all their local parks are rammed with twats sunbathing, having parties and feckin barbecues.

 

:seething:

 

They're only going to make the lockdown drag on for far longer than it would have done if they'd just stayed in.

If everybody stopped acting the twat then it'd last for three to four weeks then we'd slowly get back to normal.

It's going to last all summer due to these pricks.

 

Incredible footage of widespread sunbathing,   lying around in parks.

 

The trouble is that society today will not be told what to do.   We now know that this still holds,   even in extreme emergency.     People self-justify.    Erstwhile reasonable people and belligerents both.    The only way people will begin to take it seriously is if the laws ensure that anyone sanctioned gets a criminal record.

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1 minute ago, joondalupjambo said:

If the stats show that Scotland is behaving better than England in relation to the lockdown, not sure if we are or not but based on population size we could be.  What happens if Boris says total lock down because of a minority down south behaving badly.

 

I am not trying to score political points here but why should Scots or indeed Welsh or Irish be subject to even more stringent rules if they are currently doing what they have been asked to do.

 

Is there a way that an increased lock down be done by region and/ or area?

 

Was this what they were talking about when Hancock mentioned immunity passports for example?

Not sure of the chances our on Cmo cant blinkin do it, I live in South Queensferry and the streets and walks about here have been ridiculous- not sure if it is the same all over the country but if so then would be amazed if we dont have tighter restrictions !!

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Immunity passport is baws.

Even if you have antibodies in your system, a heavy viral load will still re-infect you.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
38 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Logic would say that this should be the pattern. The people that are dying will unfortunately be the ones that caught it before lockdown procedures and spread it around their family members during lockdown. It SHOULD slow down and eventually disappear all together with no losses. The problem will be getting back to normal and then another outbreak happening. I don't think anyone knows how to go about getting back to normality without that risk 

 

The second wave, that is always possible indeed highly probable, I don't think covid-19 will ever be eradicated completely, it'll hover around for years to come, at best effective treatments will reduce the deaths down to more like normal flu rates, as for a vaccine there are no guarantees they will even get one.

 

Normality, will anything ever be 'normal' again, what will you or me or anybody think if they are sitting on a plane, a bus, a train, at the footy and somebody is coughing and sneezing in the row behind you.

 

Pre covid-19 all you'd think about is that they had a cold, post covid-19.............................

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Jambo-Jimbo
39 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think after the peak / plateau has gone past,   a wholesale unlocking of the lockdown can only lead to another wave.    The government would be quite content to hold station with the current lockdown 'lite' as it is producing what was needed.   To flatten the peak and cases to undershoot resources.   It's also likely to ensure that the infection continues to widen (as it must) and the country moves gradually to widespread exposure.    But this could take months to see out and the economic situation becomes increasingly unsustainable.   It's not known if immunity will remain long enough to get through to a vaccine.

 

It's a bit of a puzzle with no best case solution.

 

Exactly, lots of people will die, no matter which scenario is adopted.

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Just get it covered by a public order offence.    It can all be dealt with at a later date.    Get details and record.

 

Out doing something unnecessary?    Criminal record with a public order offence.    

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11 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

If the stats show that Scotland is behaving better than England in relation to the lockdown, not sure if we are or not but based on population size we could be.  What happens if Boris says total lock down because of a minority down south behaving badly.

 

I am not trying to score political points here but why should Scots or indeed Welsh or Irish be subject to even more stringent rules if they are currently doing what they have been asked to do.

 

Is there a way that an increased lock down be done by region and/ or area?

 

Was this what they were talking about when Hancock mentioned immunity passports for example?

 

The Emergency Powers laws allow each country to do things differently.

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joondalupjambo

The East Neuk of Fife is apparently crawling with folk living and/or visiting their holiday homes.  Locals been raising the issue here locally for the last two weeks.  No enmass action by the Police and local MP now raising it as an issue.  Without a legal edict how else do you force people to remain in their primary property?

If there is a law next question would be why is it not being inforced?  Maybe this is why the local MP is getting involved, starting to ask the hard questions.

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Jambo-Jimbo
33 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Unless someone finds a vaccine, the same problems will be present. 

 

Or enough of the population gets infected and becomes immune to whatever degree of immunity being infected provides, if any.

 

People are putting a lot of faith in a vaccine, but there isn't any guarantee that they'll be able to develop one, and even if they do, how long will it last, a lifetime, a year a few months, it might be a new one is needed every year because the immunity wears off, this is something nobody knows right now.

 

In an ideal World all that would be needed is a dose of a vaccine and that'll be the end of Covid-19, that would be the best case scenario, but it rarely ever works out that way, unfortunately.

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Mac_fae_Gillie
54 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think after the peak / plateau has gone past,   a wholesale unlocking of the lockdown can only lead to another wave.    The government would be quite content to hold station with the current lockdown 'lite' as it is producing what was needed.   To flatten the peak and cases to undershoot resources.   It's also likely to ensure that the infection continues to widen (as it must) and the country moves gradually to widespread exposure.    But this could take months to see out and the economic situation becomes increasingly unsustainable.   It's not known if immunity will remain long enough to get through to a vaccine.

 

It's a bit of a puzzle with no best case solution.

After 3months the lockdown for those less at risk must be lifted as general production needs to restart, holding schools shut and pubs/cinemas again fine. AS for unknown time on immunity we have 1 major advantage..China.. they are 6weeks ahead so that will give us an early warning of expected length of immunity as long as they are honest and forthcoming.

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1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Or enough of the population gets infected and becomes immune to whatever degree of immunity being infected provides, if any.

 

People are putting a lot of faith in a vaccine, but there isn't any guarantee that they'll be able to develop one, and even if they do, how long will it last, a lifetime, a year a few months, it might be a new one is needed every year because the immunity wears off, this is something nobody knows right now.

 

In an ideal World all that would be needed is a dose of a vaccine and that'll be the end of Covid-19, that would be the best case scenario, but it rarely ever works out that way, unfortunately.

 

The best chance of a quick fix is a major breakthrough with a treatment.    A large percentage success rate repurposed drug to intervene to prevent critical illness.   

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Francis Albert
23 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

If the stats show that Scotland is behaving better than England in relation to the lockdown, not sure if we are or not but based on population size we could be.  What happens if Boris says total lock down because of a minority down south behaving badly.

 

I am not trying to score political points here but why should Scots or indeed Welsh or Irish be subject to even more stringent rules if they are currently doing what they have been asked to do.

 

Is there a way that an increased lock down be done by region and/ or area?

 

Was this what they were talking about when Hancock mentioned immunity passports for example?

On your last question ... no. It is about releasing from lock down those who are tested and shown to have had the virus and so  they (may)  be immune and unlikely to infect others. It seems far too early to say how practical or useful the idea would be.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

After 3months the lockdown for those less at risk must be lifted as general production needs to restart, holding schools shut and pubs/cinemas again fine. AS for unknown time on immunity we have 1 major advantage..China.. they are 6weeks ahead so that will give us an early warning of expected length of immunity as long as they are honest and forthcoming.

 

Yes.   Hopefully reliable data from China.    Failing that we'll get it later from other regions.

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Francis Albert
9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes.   Hopefully reliable data from China.    Failing that we'll get it later from other regions.

Reliable data from China? China suppressed the news of the outbreak for one to two months at least, and closed down whistleblowing by accusations of subversion of the state and cultural revolution style re-education . 

Astonishingly the Chinese were praised by the Director General of WHO for their exemplary handling of the outbreak. The said DG got his post thanks to strong backing by China and his country is strongly dependent on aid from China.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The best chance of a quick fix is a major breakthrough with a treatment.    A large percentage success rate repurposed drug to intervene to prevent critical illness.   

 

Absolutely, something which improves the survival odds of those who are the sickest and preferably something which prevents the majority getting really sick and needing ICU, that has to be the goal right now, it'll kick the can down the road and buy a bit more time for the holy grail of a workable vaccine to hopefully get developed.

 

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Francis Albert
6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

What was said earlier 

 

 

Isn't a public role part of her job. In fact a major part?

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1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Isn't a public role part of her job. In fact a major part?

Other than in a public health crisis I’d say her public appearances are fairly limited. 

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Went out for a decent walk today and I'm not saying Gilmerton,  Fairmilehead, Morningside are reflective of Edinburgh as whole but the vast majority of people made way, or stopped till traffic went by before getting off pavement, only about 5 groups I'd doubt were families (4 sets of girls walking, all who took up whole pavement and didn't even try to go to single file and 4 guys sitting  beside each other in Comiston Park).  Of course, these could all have been flat mates.

 

Oh and one absolute throbber of a cyclist taking advantage of no cars and racing down Comiston Road at serious speed.  Also souted at a woman who was walking a couple of steps off the pavement and in the bus lane to keep away from folks on the pavement.  Not a car on the road, cyclist likely breaking the speed limit, already in the main lane and could see the woman from a significant distance.

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Five London bus drivers have died of Covid-19.

That's a shocking state of affairs.

TFL have tough questions to answer.

 

 

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Montgomery Brewster
2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Went out for a decent walk today and I'm not saying Gilmerton,  Fairmilehead, Morningside are reflective of Edinburgh as whole but the vast majority of people made way, or stopped till traffic went by before getting off pavement, only about 5 groups I'd doubt were families (4 sets of girls walking, all who took up whole pavement and didn't even try to go to single file and 4 guys sitting  beside each other in Comiston Park).  Of course, these could all have been flat mates.

 

Oh and one absolute throbber of a cyclist taking advantage of no cars and racing down Comiston Road at serious speed.  Also souted at a woman who was walking a couple of steps off the pavement and in the bus lane to keep away from folks on the pavement.  Not a car on the road, cyclist likely breaking the speed limit, already in the main lane and could see the woman from a significant distance.

There are some decent cyclists, then there are twats like this who should be birched and the bike torched or is that the other way about 🤔

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
51 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The second wave, that is always possible indeed highly probable, I don't think covid-19 will ever be eradicated completely, it'll hover around for years to come, at best effective treatments will reduce the deaths down to more like normal flu rates, as for a vaccine there are no guarantees they will even get one.

 

Normality, will anything ever be 'normal' again, what will you or me or anybody think if they are sitting on a plane, a bus, a train, at the footy and somebody is coughing and sneezing in the row behind you.

 

Pre covid-19 all you'd think about is that they had a cold, post covid-19.............................

 

when did the death rates surpass flu death rates?

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4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Five London bus drivers have died of Covid-19.

That's a shocking state of affairs.

TFL have tough questions to answer.

 

Boris Johnson saying construction and other workers can keep working more like it. 

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19 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Or enough of the population gets infected and becomes immune to whatever degree of immunity being infected provides, if any.

 

People are putting a lot of faith in a vaccine, but there isn't any guarantee that they'll be able to develop one, and even if they do, how long will it last, a lifetime, a year a few months, it might be a new one is needed every year because the immunity wears off, this is something nobody knows right now.

 

In an ideal World all that would be needed is a dose of a vaccine and that'll be the end of Covid-19, that would be the best case scenario, but it rarely ever works out that way, unfortunately.


I think that the UK, along with other countries, are following an unofficial policy of herd immunity.  Not something the public want to hear, but there really is very little in the way of options. They only changed to an official policy of social isolation, as without it, the policy of heard immunity alone was projected to result in a very high death rate.
The chances are this virus will continue to return and the hope must be that the majority of the population will be exposed and develop some resistance, the trick will be to prevent the NHS being swamped with cases at these times.

The lockdown will have to be lifted in cycles probably for the sake of the economy and for people’s general well being to prevent social unrest.
Normal life may never be the same for a long time, but hopefully we will get there.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
7 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

when did the death rates surpass flu death rates?

 

Give it time, in a year or two, then ask the same question, then see what the answer is.

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2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I have noticed a significant increase in cyclist doing stupid things. Can only assume the reduced volume of traffic is providing a increased sense of invincibility.

 

 

 

Cyclists going wrong way in one way streets seems to be what they have agreed between themselves. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Immunity passport is baws.

Even if you have antibodies in your system, a heavy viral load will still re-infect you.

 

And you can still carry the surface transmitted virus on your clothing, your person, your car, your shopping bags etc, etc and unknowingly transfer it to someone else who, just maybe, doesn't have quite as robust immune system as yourself.

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8 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

And you can still carry the surface transmitted virus on your clothing, your person, your car, your shopping bags etc, etc and unknowingly transfer it to someone else who, just maybe, doesn't have quite as robust immune system as yourself.

 

Why they don't want us travelling or meeting people.

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Jambo-Jimbo
17 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

when did the death rates surpass flu death rates?

 

I forgot that I'd posted an article about this season's flu outbreak in Italy.

https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

This article was published a month before the first recorded covid-19 death in Italy.

 

From October 2019 to January 2020 there were 240 deaths attributed to the flu, which was lower than the 258 deaths they had expected.

Compare that to Covid-19.

From 21 February 2020 to today 5 April 2020 a period of little over 6 weeks there has been almost 16,000 deaths in Italy attributed to Covid-19.

 

To recap.

240 deaths attributed to the flu in Italy over a period of 3 months.

Almost 16,000 deaths attributed to covid-19 over a 6 week period in Italy.

That's pretty conclusive if you ask me.

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Malinga the Swinga

I stay couple of hundred yards from Pentlands Hills and expected to see loads of walkers and families up hills today. In reality, barely anyone about. Police car up about mid afternoon to check and a few cars that were about butbonlybstayed about 10 minutes.

 

Mind, the wind and weather probably kept most away. Baltic up there today.

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Malinga the Swinga

Excellent speech by Queen. Pretty sure, although not 100%, that she must be the only reigning monarch who was about during WW2, and thought she captured what was required extremely well. 

 

I know now she has detractors on here, but her words will still have an impact with the older population and encourage them to get through this.

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I forgot that I'd posted an article about this season's flu outbreak in Italy.

https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

This article was published a month before the first recorded covid-19 death in Italy.

 

From October 2019 to January 2020 there were 240 deaths attributed to the flu, which was lower than the 258 deaths they had expected.

Compare that to Covid-19.

From 21 February 2020 to today 5 April 2020 a period of little over 6 weeks there has been almost 16,000 deaths in Italy attributed to Covid-19.

 

To recap.

240 deaths attributed to the flu in Italy over a period of 3 months.

Almost 16,000 deaths attributed to covid-19 over a 6 week period in Italy.

That's pretty conclusive if you ask me.

 

regarding your earlier reply - I agree there are much more unknowns about covid19 so maybe in 1-2-3 years absolutely who knows

 

regarding what u posted which inferred death rates for Covid was already higher - I was meaning in the uk (that Italy figure looks ridiculously dubious btw)

 

i think in 2014 28000 died of/with flu in the uk - I’m not sure what the excess deaths were within that figure but I think an accepted figure is around 8000 (although 2014 was a heavier year) 

 

we dont know the excess deaths from Covid so far (have heard it estimated as a third)

 

so my original question was when Covid death rates surpassed flu - I don’t know if they have btw and given unknowns in the data not sure how I could easily work it out so it’s a genuine question

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18 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Excellent speech by Queen. Pretty sure, although not 100%, that she must be the only reigning monarch who was about during WW2, and thought she captured what was required extremely well. 

 

I know now she has detractors on here, but her words will still have an impact with the older population and encourage them to get through this.

 

Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah of Kuwait was born on 16 June 1929

 

Humaid bin Rashid Al Nuaimi III of Ajman was born in 1931

 

Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia was born on 31 December 1935

 

Harald V of Norway was born on 21 February 1937

 

Sultan bin Mohamed Al-Qassimi III of Sharjah was born on 6 July 1939

 

Margrethe II of Denmark was born on 16 April 1940

 

Mahmud Sallehuddin of Kedah (Malaysia) was born on 30 April 1942

 

Sirajuddin of Perlis (Malaysia) was born on 17 May 1943

 

Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein was born on 14 February 1945

 

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_reigning_monarchs_by_length_of_reign

 

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )
  • JKBMod 12 featured, locked, unlocked and unfeatured this topic

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