Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Weakened Offender]

8 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Objection! Speculation, Your Honor.

 

 

Hopefully it is speculation however what's being reported now isn't too clever and the quotes from people close to him suggest it's very serious 

 

[ri Alban]

The media need to calm it, it's like an obituary. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

 

I'm just as guilty of speculating with my objection to his speculation.

[ri Alban]

So what I'd this goes into cats and then mutates and comes back again making the future vaccine obsolete. Mother nature isn't happy with is humans.

[ri Alban]

France hitting big numbers now.

[Sharpie]

5 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

To be honest,  we just took it on the chin. Their position was simply "no ball games". That's leisure/ recreation. Only walking, running or cycling. 

 

PCSO argument was that us playing tippy-tap would give the teens etc legitimacy for having an impromptu game in the park,  social gatherings etc etc.

 

She then trucked off in to the distance to have a similar chat to some bloke playing cricket with his six year old son.

 

Still... them's the rules. We'll do something else next time.

 

I wan't I hope seen as being critical of you, on the contrary I understand wanting to get the kids out, I equally though have sympathy for the Pc, I hope she felt bad about what she had to do.

[Sharpie]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I think the police could establish quickly whether the three neds were part of the same household. Sounds unlikely. But even if they were they could surely distinguish between 3 neds and a couple with a one year old.

Anyway why is kicking a ball less of  form of exercise than say skateboarding or riding a bike?

 

You do understand that there were no neds there, I was using that term as an example. I have had on many occasions been asked why are you telling me not to when, and a finger point or some other action indicates a seemingly similar situation was in progress, sometimes the simple explanation was enough other times a full description of the other situation was required and still did not satisfy. Sometimes discretion was just the wrong tactic. When carrying out enforcement or just enacting policy one runs into these situations, and on occasion can end up in fairly serious problems for the enforcer who is being asked by a supervisor are you aware of the law or did you not understand the policy, 

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So what I'd this goes into cats and then mutates and comes back again making the future vaccine obsolete. Mother nature isn't happy with is humans.

 

A tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for COVID-19.  This is a worrisome development.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for COVID-19.  This is a worrisome development.

 

More worrying some countries are testing tigers and we are barely testing doctors. 

[fabienleclerq]

Boris is now a victim of the stupid herd immunity idea they came up with and the initial response not taking this serious enough. I wonder how many people will be ill because of this country's slow response? Or how many people have already died having not been privileged enough to be tested? 

 

He was shaking hands with folk who had it and ignored their own rules. I hope he recovers but just because he is ill doesn't make him any less of an arsehole. 

[Tommy Brown]

How he will regret this conference on 3rd March. Shaking hands with Carona virus patients .

Knew at the time it would come back and haunt him.

https://youtu.be/n3NAx3tsy-k

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

How he will regret this conference on 3rd March. Shaking hands with Carona virus patients .

Knew at the time it would come back and haunt him.

https://youtu.be/n3NAx3tsy-k

I’d imagine the infection point for this was the daily briefings from the middle of March with Hancock and Witty, both of whom also got the symptoms/tested positive at the same time as BJ. Strict SD was only introduced round about the 20th so he’ll have caught it sometime that previous week.

Edited April 7, 2020 by JimmyCant

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

Boris is now a victim of the stupid herd immunity idea they came up with and the initial response not taking this serious enough. I wonder how many people will be ill because of this country's slow response? Or how many people have already died having not been privileged enough to be tested? 

 

He was shaking hands with folk who had it and ignored their own rules. I hope he recovers but just because he is ill doesn't make him any less of an arsehole. 

People still think herd immunity was an actual strategic policy ?  It was only ever talked about as a good side outcome of mass infection, that once people had it they were immune given that there wasn’t and isn’t a vaccine and getting it was the only way to become immune. Some people were desperate to misinterpret that.

 

Slow response ? He went to lockdown a week too late in hindsight. Maybe he thought people just weren’t ready for it yet. When the numbers starting going up, people were more ready. Some people are STILL not ready, eager to find whatever loophole they can to ensure their important lives aren’t disrupted. Those people are the arseholes in this event.You need to show bodies piled up in the street for some people to get this through their thick skulls. Those people are spreading the virus and causing deaths.

 

He also should have kicked arses below him on PPE He carries the can for that but no country in the world apart from South Korea had ready access to the volume of stuff required immediately so it’s not solely a British issue

Edited April 7, 2020 by JimmyCant

[DETTY29]

37 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

How he will regret this conference on 3rd March. Shaking hands with Carona virus patients .

Knew at the time it would come back and haunt him.

https://youtu.be/n3NAx3tsy-k

In fairness he did say the scientific evidence was to wash your hands, which was clarified by Vallance.

 

But they were 'both off the ball' because I remember Tam Cowan asking Jason Leitch why Leitch shook his hand and Leitch gave a more detailed response that he saw the hand sanitizer in the studio and he had the opportunity to rub his hands down immediately.  That should have been made clear too.

 

Mass shaking of hands however isn't a good idea over a condensed period of time because you need to be able to clean them before put them to your mouth, nose, eyes.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by DETTY29

[The Internet]

Why does the daily mail always start it's headline with 'now'?

[fabienleclerq]

32 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

People still think herd immunity was an actual strategic policy ?  It was only ever talked about as a good side outcome of mass infection, that once people had it they were immune given that there wasn’t and isn’t a vaccine and getting it was the only way to become immune. Some people were desperate to misinterpret that.

 

Slow response ? He went to lockdown a week too late in hindsight. Maybe he thought people just weren’t ready for it yet. When the numbers starting going up, people were more ready. Some people are STILL not ready, eager to find whatever loophole they can to ensure their important lives aren’t disrupted. Those people are the arseholes in this event.You need to show bodies piled up in the street for some people to get this through their thick skulls. Those people are spreading the virus and causing deaths.

 

He also should have kicked arses below him on PPE He carries the can for that but no country in the world apart from South Korea had ready access to the volume of stuff required immediately so it’s not solely a British issue

 

I feel like we've imposed a half arsed lockdown compared to other countries, we watched Italy and instead of acting quickly and shutting down ASAP we appeared to think we had plenty time.

 

We obviously dragged our feet getting PPE and ventilators or organising testing.

 

We have no idea how many people have or have had it or which parts of the country are worst hit as we have just told people with symptoms to hide away without testing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So what I'd this goes into cats and then mutates and comes back again making the future vaccine obsolete. Mother nature isn't happy with is humans.

 

Yes it is worrying, because this virus has made the jump from 'bats' allegedly to humans and now humans to cats (Tiger in the Bronx zoo) and maybe other animal species that we don't know about yet, and all this in a matter of a few months.

 

There has to be a big fear about this development, that being that the virus mutates and makes the jump back from animals to humans a second time.

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

More worrying some countries are testing tigers and we are barely testing doctors. 

It's the results of that test I find

worrying 😞

[Beni]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

People still think herd immunity was an actual strategic policy ?  It was only ever talked about as a good side outcome of mass infection, that once people had it they were immune given that there wasn’t and isn’t a vaccine and getting it was the only way to become immune. Some people were desperate to misinterpret that.

 

Slow response ? He went to lockdown a week too late in hindsight. Maybe he thought people just weren’t ready for it yet. When the numbers starting going up, people were more ready. Some people are STILL not ready, eager to find whatever loophole they can to ensure their important lives aren’t disrupted. Those people are the arseholes in this event.You need to show bodies piled up in the street for some people to get this through their thick skulls. Those people are spreading the virus and causing deaths.

 

He also should have kicked arses below him on PPE He carries the can for that but no country in the world apart from South Korea had ready access to the volume of stuff required immediately so it’s not solely a British issue

 

Here's the chief scientific advisor speaking on March 13th.

 

 

[hearts related nickname]

57 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

I feel like we've imposed a half arsed lockdown compared to other countries, we watched Italy and instead of acting quickly and shutting down ASAP we appeared to think we had plenty time.

 

We obviously dragged our feet getting PPE and ventilators or organising testing.

 

We have no idea how many people have or have had it or which parts of the country are worst hit as we have just told people with symptoms to hide away without testing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in New Zealand and the difference in approach and general management is night and day.  I'm Saturday Jacinda Arden gave a speech putting forward 4 levels of action, what conditions there are for increasing the level.  Saturday level 2, Monday they confirmed community transmission so onto level 4 on Wednesday. Everywhere non essential shut, no ambiguity in what lockdown meant, no ambiguity in what constitutes an essential business. 

 

The information was clear and concise and the people listened and as a result cases have dropped and we will likely be out of full lockdown by the time the 4 week period is over. 

 

The confusion in instructions from the British government is staggering

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, hearts related nickname said:

I'm in New Zealand and the difference in approach and general management is night and day.  I'm Saturday Jacinda Arden gave a speech putting forward 4 levels of action, what conditions there are for increasing the level.  Saturday level 2, Monday they confirmed community transmission so onto level 4 on Wednesday. Everywhere non essential shut, no ambiguity in what lockdown meant, no ambiguity in what constitutes an essential business. 

 

The information was clear and concise and the people listened and as a result cases have dropped and we will likely be out of full lockdown by the time the 4 week period is over. 

 

The confusion in instructions from the British government is staggering

 

Thanks. 

 

Folk keep saying he's done/doing a good job, it's been winged from the start. 

[Mikey1874]

Herd immunity was 100% the plan till about 3 weeks ago. 

 

And it took them at least a week to change after the scientific report that modelled 250,000 deaths. 

 

Now maybe herd immunity is part of the solution. 

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

I feel like we've imposed a half arsed lockdown compared to other countries, we watched Italy and instead of acting quickly and shutting down ASAP we appeared to think we had plenty time.

 

We obviously dragged our feet getting PPE and ventilators or organising testing.

 

We have no idea how many people have or have had it or which parts of the country are worst hit as we have just told people with symptoms to hide away without testing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of the stuff done hasn’t been the right thing in hindsight. Testing for one. If we had mass tested from the start the scale would have been apparent much earlier and the lock down would have happened earlier. 
 

Ventilator supply was caught up with fairly quickly but the PPE delivery is a shocker and loads of key workers and care homes still don’t have the right kit. To me that’s a massive shortcoming that has cost lives and will go on doing so. There has to be an explanation for this that no one has given or that people are hiding from knowing more could have been done.

 

the lockdown should have been done earlier but we spent a week or so relying on people and organisations to do the right thing. The organisers of Cheltenham and theatres and cinemas, particularly The playhouse who carried on arrogantly insisting they didn’t need the presence of the emergency services at their shows so everything would go in as normal . Employers too, didn’t do nearly enough, especially those with workforces who could have worked from home immediately but didn’t get to because it wasn’t ‘the culture of the company’ to allow home working. Shame on all of them.

 

Some of this is hindsight. A lot of it is incompetence. Most of it is damn arrogance and putting profit before health.

Edited April 7, 2020 by JimmyCant

[vegas-voss]

27 minutes ago, hearts related nickname said:

I'm in New Zealand and the difference in approach and general management is night and day.  I'm Saturday Jacinda Arden gave a speech putting forward 4 levels of action, what conditions there are for increasing the level.  Saturday level 2, Monday they confirmed community transmission so onto level 4 on Wednesday. Everywhere non essential shut, no ambiguity in what lockdown meant, no ambiguity in what constitutes an essential business. 

 

The information was clear and concise and the people listened and as a result cases have dropped and we will likely be out of full lockdown by the time the 4 week period is over. 

 

The confusion in instructions from the British government is staggering

She is a great leader.Seen her message yesterday as well for the kids as well about not to worry the Easter bunny is a key worker.She just seems very real which is something you can't label our politicians with.

[Victorian]

73yo in N.Ireland was pressured into signing a DNR.    Before she was diagnosed with Covid.     

 

Another tranche for the inquiry.

[JimmyCant]

51 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Here's the chief scientific advisor speaking on March 13th.

 

 

Widely misinterpreted as him saying he wanted people to get it as part of the strategy. It was merely a factual outcome of the strategy and the nature of the disease that he knew couldn’t be entirely suppressed by that stage anyway. Herd immunity will have a massive impact on beating this long before a vaccine comes out but it happens naturally, not as a policy. If it ever was a valid strategic policy we’d have been encouraged to get it if we were otherwise healthy

Edited April 7, 2020 by JimmyCant

[vegas-voss]

Viral load they know it's a problem but they never emphasise what it is either for the public to understand 

[hearts related nickname]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

She is a great leader.Seen her message yesterday as well for the kids as well about not to worry the Easter bunny is a key worker.She just seems very real which is something you can't label our politicians with.

She's just normal

 

 

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Widely misinterpreted as him saying he wanted people to get it as part of the strategy. It was merely a factual outcome of the strategy and the nature of the disease that he knew couldn’t be entirely suppressed by that stage anyway

Personally I don't trust a word the guy says has come across as dodgy to me since the whole thing started might just be the attitude he gives off in my mind though but Whitty and his deputy come across far better.

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, hearts related nickname said:

She's just normal

 

 

That's it and what a difference it makes she is normal.

[jambo89]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Widely misinterpreted as him saying he wanted people to get it as part of the strategy. It was merely a factual outcome of the strategy and the nature of the disease that he knew couldn’t be entirely suppressed by that stage anyway

“Widely misinterpreted”

 

So just to be clear, everyone else was wrong about herd immunity being the strategy, and you are right? 
 

I note the government has changed its tune and said that it was never part of the strategy, but the radio interview posted above is pretty conclusive if you ask me.

[Victorian]

Perhaps the term herd immunity is no longer suitable to describe the unavoidable reality of the overall solution.   Herd immunity is normally a deliberate policy derived via vaccination.     The ultimate solution here must involve widespread exposure to the virus.     There is no other choice but to accept it as part of the future.    

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

“Widely misinterpreted”

 

So just to be clear, everyone else was wrong about herd immunity being the strategy, and you are right? 
 

I note the government has changed its tune and said that it was never part of the strategy, but the radio interview posted above is pretty conclusive if you ask me.

The interview is open to misinterpretation. Many people did that. You included it seems. The government cleared it up as soon as they were questioned on it. Not one single action that would have led to a deliberate mass infection and thereby herd immunity was ever taken or considered. The very thought of it is ridiculous.

[jambo89]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

The interview is open to misinterpretation. Many people did that. You included it seems. The government cleared it up as soon as they were questioned on it. Not one single action that would have led to a deliberate mass infection and thereby herd immunity was ever taken or considered. The very thought of it is ridiculous.

Everyone is else is wrong and I am right would suffice. 
 

 

[JimmyCant]

Just now, jambo89 said:

Everyone is else is wrong and I am right would suffice. 
 

 

Not everyone , in fact hardly anyone, really believes there was ever a herd immunity strategy. I’m in that group. It’s not just me who had a think about it and dismissed it as bloody ridiculous. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean everyone else has that opinion mate. Also doesn’t mean it’s right.

[vegas-voss]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Perhaps the term herd immunity is no longer suitable to describe the unavoidable reality of the overall solution.   Herd immunity is normally a deliberate policy derived via vaccination.     The ultimate solution here must involve widespread exposure to the virus.     There is no other choice but to accept it as part of the future.    

It's not mentioned as there was a backlash against it.Its kind of mental though that folk wanted the government to take a different approach they have and now ****wits can't adhere to it.

[Dirty Deeds]

Those early press conferences are damning.  They couldn't even put the lecturns 2 metres apart. 

 

Whatever they were trying to achieve,  it has failed spectacularly. 

 

Even this morning Gove is acting like Boris is alright because he's not (yet) on a ventilator, you couldn't make this shit up.

 

I genuinely hope he pulls through but bloody hell,  he's no leader.

 

We're all now watching a Shakespearean tragedy play out from a safe distance. 

[jambo89]

8 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Not everyone , in fact hardly anyone, really believes there was ever a herd immunity strategy. I’m in that group. It’s not just me who had a think about it and dismissed it as bloody ridiculous. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean everyone else has that opinion mate. Also doesn’t mean it’s right.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2020/03/uk-backed-herd-immunity-beat-covid-19-well-ultimately-need-it/amp
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-millions-of-britons-will-need-to-contract-covid-19-for-herd-immunity-11956793
 

Re-read what you just posted.
 

Nobody believed there was a herd immunity strategy. 
 

That’s simply not true.

 

Just because the UK changed from this strategy, it doesn’t mean that this wasn’t the initial plan 3 weeks ago.

 

"Communities will become immune to it and that's going to be an important part of controlling this longer term“

 

Is a direct quote btw

Edited April 7, 2020 by jambo89

[Mikey1874]

Herd immunity still being put forward

 

 

[vegas-voss]

12 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

The interview is open to misinterpretation. Many people did that. You included it seems. The government cleared it up as soon as they were questioned on it. Not one single action that would have led to a deliberate mass infection and thereby herd immunity was ever taken or considered. The very thought of it is ridiculous.

**** the guy was encouraging going to football grounds , horse racing etc etc but now we are not to be within two metres of a stranger he was encouraging the spread of it.

[Beni]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

People still think herd immunity was an actual strategic policy ?  

 

28 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

It was merely a factual outcome of the strategy 

 

Question asked, question answered. Well done.

[Dirty Deeds]

6 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

**** the guy was encouraging going to football grounds , horse racing etc etc but now we are not to be within two metres of a stranger he was encouraging the spread of it.

They've most likely killed thousands with their expert advice.   https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/health/coronavirus/serious-questions-why-cheltenham-festival-was-allowed-go-ahead-star-names-display-coronavirus-2530091

[Victorian]

Just now, vegas-voss said:

It's not mentioned as there was a backlash against it.Its kind of mental though that folk wanted the government to take a different approach they have and now ****wits can't adhere to it.

 

There's probably various strands to it.    People quite rightly protested that the implications from a policy of herd immunity could not stand.    The forecasted figures.    The certainty that the NHS would be hopelessly overwhelmed.     On the other side,   people seem to demand to know when they can get back to normal.    Some people are too detached from reality,   too insular,   to realise that the rules apply to them.     Never, ever underestimate the capacity of people to come to the conclusion that they are entitled to be excluded from control.

 

The future is very uncertain but one certainty is that eventually there has to be a widespread exposure to the virus.    Lockdown is for the expressed purpose of allowing the NHS to cope.     Post-peak is the time when the government's unspoken policy will be for everyone to get back out and take their chances.    It cannot be avoided.

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Not everyone , in fact hardly anyone, really believes there was ever a herd immunity strategy. I’m in that group. It’s not just me who had a think about it and dismissed it as bloody ridiculous. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean everyone else has that opinion mate. Also doesn’t mean it’s right.

 

When I see someone arguing that black is white or that white is black on here, I assume it is either due to their dogged religious or political beliefs. I assume that in your case, it is the political side of things that is blinkering you on the subject, despite the overwhelming evidence countering your assertions. You really need to take a step back, forget your dogma for a moment, and ask yourself "am I actually right on this?"

[vegas-voss]

Austria to be the first European country to start easing restrictions will be interesting to see how that goes

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

**** the guy was encouraging going to football grounds , horse racing etc etc but now we are not to be within two metres of a stranger he was encouraging the spread of it.

So the government and the senior medical advisors sat down at the start of this and said ‘look we’ve got this virus, there is no cure so let’s just do nothing, take the hit on deaths, the lucky and the strong will survive and the unlucky and the weak will die and we’ll be fine at the end of it because everyone will have had it and can’t get it again’  

 

I think the last government that implemented a similar strategy was tried at Nuremberg.

[Dirty Deeds]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

So the government and the senior medical advisors sat down at the start of this and said ‘look we’ve got this virus, there is no cure so let’s just do nothing, take the hit on deaths, the lucky and the strong will survive and the unlucky and the weak will die and we’ll be fine at the end of it because everyone will have had it and can’t get it again’  

 

I think the last government that implemented a similar strategy was tried at Nuremberg.

Yup, https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/wash-your-hands-message-from-dominic-cummings-1-6561892

 

Cummings has seen his uncle die, his boss in ICU and he's had to self isolate with symptoms. 

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

So the government and the senior medical advisors sat down at the start of this and said ‘look we’ve got this virus, there is no cure so let’s just do nothing, take the hit on deaths, the lucky and the strong will survive and the unlucky and the weak will die and we’ll be fine at the end of it because everyone will have had it and can’t get it again’  

 

I think the last government that implemented a similar strategy was tried at Nuremberg.

Call it what you want they were following Netherlands and Sweden's approach to it then done a U-turn.

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, hearts related nickname said:

I'm in New Zealand and the difference in approach and general management is night and day.  I'm Saturday Jacinda Arden gave a speech putting forward 4 levels of action, what conditions there are for increasing the level.  Saturday level 2, Monday they confirmed community transmission so onto level 4 on Wednesday. Everywhere non essential shut, no ambiguity in what lockdown meant, no ambiguity in what constitutes an essential business. 

 

The information was clear and concise and the people listened and as a result cases have dropped and we will likely be out of full lockdown by the time the 4 week period is over. 

 

The confusion in instructions from the British government is staggering

Unfortunately the PM did not take Covid 19 seriously. It will cost the country dearly and may well cost him everything...

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

When I see someone arguing that black is white or that white is black on here, I assume it is either due to their dogged religious or political beliefs. I assume that in your case, it is the political side of things that is blinkering you on the subject, despite the overwhelming evidence countering your assertions. You really need to take a step back, forget your dogma for a moment, and ask yourself "am I actually right on this?"

What’s your assumption on my political beliefs might I ask ?