The Roller Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Was hoping desperately Italy’s numbers would continue to decline 😔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo1874 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: 743 deaths reported in Italy. Big jump after 2 days of lower numbers. Awful. I had hoped that they would continue going down. Might have given them hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Italys number raise after 2 consecutive days on decreasing. 743 deaths in last 24 hours. That’s really frightening news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Brutal numbers in Italy and Spain ☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 It's very difficult to directly compare death and infection rates between different nations or even from day to day in the same nation. Patients will all be of different ages, from different places, from different backgrounds and with different underlying conditions. Healthcare will be wildly different too. The number of confirmed cases measured depends on testing. I'm sure that many people who have Covid-19 symptoms and self-isolate then go on to recover will never be officially tested and declared as a positive infection. Italy, Spain and Germany are testing en masse. UK is only testing people who go to hospital. Only very, very broad generalisations can be drawn from comparing stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: I’m in the construction trade and can’t believe both countries differ on the rules? Im on the huge site at St James Centre where there was 800 guys at its height. Most workers operate in pairs as that what health and safety specifies. You pass or socialise on breaks with numerous guys but there isn’t the provision or facilities to hope to divide guys up safely when there are big numbers together. Gladly, my site is closed and most guys wanted to go off anyway. But this is the contempt you are treated with sometimes in our field of work. Even this morning my own bosses blackmailed operatives on other sites dotted around Edinburgh saying they wouldn’t be paid if they never stayed on to work. They were just sent in initially to secure any tools or equipment then go home....honestly, some people are actual c###s to the core. Any of you in a union ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Cade said: It's very difficult to directly compare death and infection rates between different nations or even from day to day in the same nation. Patients will all be of different ages, from different places, from different backgrounds and with different underlying conditions. Healthcare will be wildly different too. The number of confirmed cases measured depends on testing. I'm sure that many people who have Covid-19 symptoms and self-isolate then go on to recover will never be officially tested and declared as a positive infection. Italy, Spain and Germany are testing en masse. UK is only testing people who go to hospital. Only very, very broad generalisations can be drawn from comparing stats. I think all this talk of modelling is a little misleading. The idea that the Govt has some sort phased planning timeline is a nonsense - too many variables, like dickheads cramming onto Tube after being told to stay home. It is simply about action and inaction...and communication. Edited March 24, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Any of you in a union ? I am ,mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 36 minutes ago, Taffin said: Surely that's what a government bailout should be based on? Edit: that's what the employees one should have been based on as well imo. Or just paid the living wage. Yeah but if living for a self-employed person could be moving house, or doing up a bathroom and buying new carpets one year, and doing none of that the next...ditto expensive holidays one year and not the next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 The numbers of cases and deaths for countries like Ukraine and Poland are relatively low for the size of populations. Are they just not reporting their numbers, or do they have a plan that’s working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I think all this talk of modelling is a little misleading. The idea that the Govt has some sort phased planning timeline is a nonsense - too many variables, like dickheads cramming onto Tube after being told to stay home. It is simply about action and inaction. The trouble is that if Government start comparing stats and think we're somehow ahead of some perceived curve, they'll relax things too soon and we'll go back to square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: Yeah but if living for a self-employed person could be moving house, or doing up a bathroom and buying new carpets one year, and doing none of that the next...ditto expensive holidays one year and not the next... Sorry I'm not following you? I'm suggesting the minimum amount to get by would be a decent amount to be getting covered by the government. What they announced for the employed was very generous. I'd have been quite happy having had my job security guaranteed but moving onto the living wage until this passes. If the living wage is deemed enough to live on then it seems a decent arbitrary amount for the government to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cade said: The trouble is that if Government start comparing stats and think we're somehow ahead of some perceived curve, they'll relax things too soon and we'll go back to square one. Yep exactly like the people who started to hope Italy was improving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: Spain is really worrying 489 new deaths, 2800 total Germany seem to have good control in comparison 149, but 26 of those were today. Edit: didnt realise they are 21 days behind Italy http://nrg.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mjh/covid19/ It's worse than that I'm afraid, 514 in the last 24 hrs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52020060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: I am ,mate. Contact them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 One reported death in Russia and only approx. 500 infections?? Someone is telling porkies, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Francis Albert said: For goodness sake. I responded in a light hearted vein to your comments about living in a "match box" which didn't have a washing machine and a dishwasher, and having your shirts "laundered". In case anyone missed the fact it was light hearted I even ended with a reference to the Monty Python Yorkshiremen skit. That's not an argument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, JamesM48 said: Contact them . Just waiting to hear what they have to say first mate. It’s the usual pish we get in the trade. There’s not much empathy until you give them some resistance. They push to get more from guys when they know they shouldn’t be pushing. 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Taffin said: Sorry I'm not following you? I'm suggesting the minimum amount to get by would be a decent amount to be getting covered by the government. What they announced for the employed was very generous. I'd have been quite happy having had my job security guaranteed but moving onto the living wage until this passes. If the living wage is deemed enough to live on then it seems a decent arbitrary amount for the government to cover. Well if I have a year where I want to take money out of my business because I need it, I'll defer less by putting less into my pension - I'll pay more tax on profits and thus have a higher "net income". Thus I can change my income to suit my needs, by changing my pension and thus changing the amount of tax I pay in any given year. This is the flexibility that I was talking of. Whilst I agree it prima facie looks like a good idea to just take the tax of last year and gross it up, it doesn't really give a true picture... This is why mortgage companies ask for several years of info for self-employed people, versus last 3 payslips for employed people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: It's worse than that I'm afraid, 514 in the last 24 hrs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52020060 Reading about funeral homes not being able to collect bodies due to lack of protective equipment mean that you can still catch it from the dead, or their houses but not from flu victim equivalents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, DETTY29 said: Reading about funeral homes not being able to collect bodies due to lack of protective equipment mean that you can still catch it from the dead, or their houses but not from flu victim equivalents? Flipping heck - it could get industrial like BSE and Foot & Mouth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Just waiting to hear what they have to say first mate. It’s the usual pish we get in the trade. There’s not much empathy until you give them some resistance. They push to get more from guys when they know they shouldn’t be pushing. 👍🏻 Good luck with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Well if I have a year where I want to take money out of my business because I need it, I'll defer less by putting less into my pension - I'll pay more tax on profits and thus have a higher "net income". Thus I can change my income to suit my needs, by changing my pension and thus changing the amount of tax I pay in any given year. This is the flexibility that I was talking of. Whilst I agree it prima facie looks like a good idea to just take the tax of last year and gross it up, it doesn't really give a true picture... This is why mortgage companies ask for several years of info for self-employed people, versus last 3 payslips for employed people... Ah okay, get you now, thanks for explaining it 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: That's not an argument! Who said was? Not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfurdaley Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 41 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: I’m in the construction trade and can’t believe both countries differ on the rules? Im on the huge site at St James Centre where there was 800 guys at its height. Most workers operate in pairs as that what health and safety specifies. You pass or socialise on breaks with numerous guys but there isn’t the provision or facilities to hope to divide guys up safely when there are big numbers together. Gladly, my site is closed and most guys wanted to go off anyway. But this is the contempt you are treated with sometimes in our field of work. Even this morning my own bosses blackmailed operatives on other sites dotted around Edinburgh saying they wouldn’t be paid if they never stayed on to work. They were just sent in initially to secure any tools or equipment then go home....honestly, some people are actual c###s to the core. I'm back tomorrow, essential maintenance / Gas safety certs for schools, I have been instructed lone working only, someone from the council will open boiler room for me then leave me alone.All new build sites we are on have been closed. Not sure what trade you are in but most heating guys work in pairs, and youre right sometimes they want you to work at all costs. Thankfully our bosses have taken advice from the relevant trade bodies and only 'essential' has to be done. Stay safe all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said: The numbers of cases and deaths for countries like Ukraine and Poland are relatively low for the size of populations. Are they just not reporting their numbers, or do they have a plan that’s working. Caught up with friends in Poland earlier; who were aghast at the UK reaction and were worried about us after seeing what was happening in Italy, borders were shut down , lock down implemented much quicker than here - and in common with mainland Europe, 2 meter social distancing implemented in shops etc (shops well stocked with no panic buying) with little fuss and with good grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, Cade said: It's very difficult to directly compare death and infection rates between different nations or even from day to day in the same nation. Patients will all be of different ages, from different places, from different backgrounds and with different underlying conditions. Healthcare will be wildly different too. The number of confirmed cases measured depends on testing. I'm sure that many people who have Covid-19 symptoms and self-isolate then go on to recover will never be officially tested and declared as a positive infection. Italy, Spain and Germany are testing en masse. UK is only testing people who go to hospital. Only very, very broad generalisations can be drawn from comparing stats. I agree with this - it's not just the numbers that are being tested but how the testing is being carried out. When they start testing for antibodies - which we are told will be very soon - that will change things quite a bit, as it will give a much better indication of how many people have actually contracted the virus. The other thing to bear in mind is that the distribution of the virus within specific countries (as well as the natural geography of those countries) varies greatly - which means that expecting the virus spread in one country to follow the trajectory of another is over-simplistic. A very large proportion of the cases in Italy have been in the Lombardy region - and even within Lombardy, there are some areas, such as Bergamo and Brescia, that have been hit particularly hard. This is not to say that other countries won't be hit as hard as Italy, it's just that the trajectory will quite possibly vary considerably from country to country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, stirlo said: I agree with this - it's not just the numbers that are being tested but how the testing is being carried out. When they start testing for antibodies - which we are told will be very soon - that will change things quite a bit, as it will give a much better indication of how many people have actually contracted the virus. The other thing to bear in mind is that the distribution of the virus within specific countries (as well as the natural geography of those countries) varies greatly - which means that expecting the virus spread in one country to follow the trajectory of another is over-simplistic. A very large proportion of the cases in Italy have been in the Lombardy region - and even within Lombardy, there are some areas, such as Bergamo and Brescia, that have been hit particularly hard. This is not to say that other countries won't be hit as hard as Italy, it's just that the trajectory will quite possibly vary considerably from country to country. The viral load of the confirmed cases and the deceased also has to be taken into account. How many infected people were they in contact with and just how MUCH of a dose did they receive? Far too many variables around this to make assumptions or models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said: Caught up with friends in Poland earlier; who were aghast at the UK reaction and were worried about us after seeing what was happening in Italy, borders were shut down , lock down implemented much quicker than here - and in common with mainland Europe, 2 meter social distancing implemented in shops etc (shops well stocked with no panic buying) with little fuss and with good grace. Good to see some people are acting accordingly to the seriousness of this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, weehammy said: It’s called ‘implausible denial’. Russia has turned it into an art form. Basically 'lying' then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, weehammy said: It’s called ‘implausible denial’. Russia has turned it into an art form. Did they not close their border with China and suspend travel between other countries really early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, hughesie27 said: Looks like we are on the rise now. Yup, bigger increase than expected. Predicting 526 tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Yup, bigger increase than expected. Predicting 526 tomorrow. How are the numbers outside of London ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Who said was? Not me. The correct response was, "Yes it is" More Monty Python... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVodka Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Death in the US linked to cholroquinine Coronavirus: US man dies after taking drug touted by Trump https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52012242 I have worked with Banner before, they are a good hospital network Edited March 24, 2020 by DarthVodka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annushorribilis III Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Did they not close their border with China and suspend travel between other countries really early. China & Iran , did it in late February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, arfurdaley said: I'm back tomorrow, essential maintenance / Gas safety certs for schools, I have been instructed lone working only, someone from the council will open boiler room for me then leave me alone.All new build sites we are on have been closed. Not sure what trade you are in but most heating guys work in pairs, and youre right sometimes they want you to work at all costs. Thankfully our bosses have taken advice from the relevant trade bodies and only 'essential' has to be done. Stay safe all A heating engineer mate. But mainly installations on construction sites. I said myself that guys like yourself will come under the “essential” banner who are in the maintenance/ emergency side of things but as you point out, you normally work alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 45 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Good luck with it . Cheers 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, luckyBatistuta said: That’s guaranteed surely, too many folk just weren’t taking it seriously. Only now that we’re in a lockdown and even then there are still muppets ignoring the warnings. Think the Gov made a big mistake in allowing this to be branded an"old person disease" initially. Gave the impression that younger people weren't at risk,and probably contributed to the initial blase attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, DarthVodka said: Death in the US linked to cholroquinine Coronavirus: US man dies after taking drug touted by Trump https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52012242 I have worked with Banner before, they are a good hospital network It was a DIY attempt was it not? Ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King prawn Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I can’t remember if I wrote this on here or not but they’ve turned an indoor ski centre into a morgue here in Madrid. The army also went into a care home to disinfect it only to find the residents had been abandoned, some were found dead in their beds. Really horrible situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: The correct response was, "Yes it is" More Monty Python... You switched sketches though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, merrymac said: Think the Gov made a big mistake in allowing this to be branded an"old person disease" initially. Gave the impression that younger people weren't at risk,and probably contributed to the initial blase attitude. It kills predominantly older people but I don't think it was ever claimed only old people could contract it. In fact the Govermmemts response was based on trying to stop old people being infected by younger people. If younger people were blase it was because they ignored advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It kills predominantly older people but I don't think it was ever claimed only old people could contract it. In fact the Govermmemts response was based on trying to stop old people being infected by younger people. If younger people were blase it was because they ignored advice. Agreed but still think there has been a bit of backtracking with a much bigger emphasis on younger people who have caught the virus. If they had gone in hard from the start we might be better prepared at this stage. Never gonna be a win situation with this nasty bugger though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, merrymac said: Think the Gov made a big mistake in allowing this to be branded an"old person disease" initially. Gave the impression that younger people weren't at risk,and probably contributed to the initial blase attitude. ‘Indeed they did, but every country will have made mistakes. Let’s hope they make the right decisions from here on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It kills predominantly older people but I don't think it was ever claimed only old people could contract it. In fact the Govermmemts response was based on trying to stop old people being infected by younger people. If younger people were blase it was because they ignored advice. They pretty much portrayed it as very mild for nearly everyone apart from 70+ at the start.Think I he ave mentioned to you before that the problem I seen was when folk 40 to 50 started to be admitted to hospital things would become over run imo and since then there is now anyone under 70 with underlying conditions. Please don't take this reply as having a go at you as it's not meant to. Edited March 24, 2020 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, luckyBatistuta said: ‘Indeed they did, but every country will have made mistakes. Let’s hope they make the right decisions from here on. Amen Stay safe mate👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, merrymac said: Amen Stay safe mate👍 And to you and your family mate👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: You switched sketches though! No, he didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: They pretty much portrayed it as very mild for nearly everyone apart from 70+ at the start.Think I he ave mentioned to you before that the problem I seen was when folk 40 to 50 started to be admitted to hospital things would become over run imo and since then there is now anyone under 70 with underlying conditions. Please don't take this reply as having a go at you as it's not meant to. You were an early poster on this thread. Your work colleague was one of Scotland's first cases. Has he returned to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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