Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

A Question...if you refuse to take the vaccine should you be able to avail yourself of the rights of others ?

 

The vaccine is not 100% so why should someone willing to take it have to run an extra risk from those who refuse ?

 

If they don't want to take it then it is their decision as long as it does not impact on others but it means isolation, limits on exercise and travel, mask wearing, no access to pubs when we are able to etc as we are living through today

 

What is all of this based on? If it's proven it prevents people catching it at all rather than just avoiding serious illness or it prevents onwards transmission then you've got a point. Until then, I don't follow what you mean as taken at face value, currently there is no solid proof that those who are vaccinated won't pass it on at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

 

 

Hopefully that will come once they've had a greater chance to study it, but currently, I don't follow your point.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

46 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The likely benefit regarding onward transmission is that vaccinations will greatly reduce it but without absolutely preventing it.  The people refusing the vaccine will gain personal benefit from others' vaccinations due to the greatly diminished risk of infection + all of the societal and economic freedoms returning.  At the same time they'll be contributing to the remaining level of risk for all those unlucky enough not to have gained any immune response from their vaccinations,  as well as those who couldn't be vaccinated at all.

 

I doubt there's any workable and fair way to proceed with the refusals.  It seems like a bit of a minefield.  We'll just need to accept that some people haven't taken part and accept or set aside the various reasons why.  

 

i think there will be enough willing to take the vaccine to make it do its job

 

hopefully the numbers who don’t take the vaccine will be low enough that any change in risk is negligible

 

that way risk fundamentally the same and free choice exercised - hopefully that’s how it works out

[Victorian]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

i think there will be enough willing to take the vaccine to make it do its job

 

hopefully the numbers who don’t take the vaccine will be low enough that any change in risk is negligible

 

that way risk fundamentally the same and free choice exercised - hopefully that’s how it works out

 

With any luck.   

 

Onward transmission prevented / reduced or not,  I still reckon the first phase of vaccinations wont be the last of 2021.  I reckon people will be getting their next one later in the year.  There probably wont be enough verified data to nail down how long immunity lasts.  Starting again before winter will be a huge insurance policy against problems over the winter.

 

Later on we'll see how long immunity lasts.  If it's short then we'll probably be looking at a 'Forth Bridge' type of vaccination system.  Twice a year vaccinations until it's eradicated.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

With any luck.   

 

Onward transmission prevented / reduced or not,  I still reckon the first phase of vaccinations wont be the last of 2021.  I reckon people will be getting their next one later in the year.  There probably wont be enough verified data to nail down how long immunity lasts.  Starting again before winter will be a huge insurance policy against problems over the winter.

 

Later on we'll see how long immunity lasts.  If it's short then we'll probably be looking at a 'Forth Bridge' type of vaccination system.  Twice a year vaccinations until it's eradicated.

 

if the virus behaves seasonally as both “the science” and “not the science” appear to agree on by and large by the time this round of vaccines kicks in the virus will possibly be heading off on its summer holidays so it might not be entirely clear if things drastically improve how much of its down to the vaccines and how much is it down to the virus reducing its hours for a few months

 

if that’s a potential scenario then the biggest test is going to be heading into next winter where I agree the jags will almost certainly be out again no messing about and unfortunately a return of physical restrictions (hopefully shorter term and refined through experience) to protect the nhs and save lives

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

On 08/01/2021 at 05:56, Captain Sausage said:

Have you got the scientific evidence for this? Heard a lot about this new variant but hadn’t seen the science behind it. 

 

carl heneghan the evidenced-based director guy at oxford was asking for evidence for these types of numbers not sure if he ever got them

 

hes quite good in that he doesn’t start disputing stuff initially he just asks for the evidence

 

also rather than doing his zoom calls in front of a bookcase full of heavy reading he seems to do his from a garden shed of some sort

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Excellent article about the possibilities of re infection . There was debate about it the other day on this . In summary it’s very rare   
 

The article states those who have had the virus have stronger protection against it than those who have had the vaccine . 
 

      https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-recovered-coronavirus-patients-have-stronger-protection-than-vaccinated-people-1133149

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

The pubs were open from July till Oct. You could have went in then. ?  Yeah its all pretty shit. No other word for it. 

Ach it was still shite mate. Book a table then get table service, stay away from other tables and wear a mask for a piss. Took the fun clean out of it. I didnt go back. 
Be glad to see the back of the pandemic restrictions if the numpties would just play the game.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Pans Jambo

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

if the virus behaves seasonally as both “the science” and “not the science” appear to agree on by and large by the time this round of vaccines kicks in the virus will possibly be heading off on its summer holidays so it might not be entirely clear if things drastically improve how much of its down to the vaccines and how much is it down to the virus reducing its hours for a few months

 

if that’s a potential scenario then the biggest test is going to be heading into next winter where I agree the jags will almost certainly be out again no messing about and unfortunately a return of physical restrictions (hopefully shorter term and refined through experience) to protect the nhs and save lives

Surely of things are well planned than it should be highly unlikely we have restrictions next winter ! Now that Would be gross incompetence . Most of the vulnerable / elderly would have been vaccinated so unlikely they would be in hospital unless you believe we need restrictions to curb the spread of the flu ! 

[JyTees]

Folk having aneurysms at the non wearing of masks is pretty funny. If you think wearing a mask is the solution to the pandemic, you need help.

 

There's bigger fish to fry.

 

The fact that the biggest proponent of it on here hails from Hamilton should really tell you to direct your angst elsewhere.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

With any luck.   

 

Onward transmission prevented / reduced or not,  I still reckon the first phase of vaccinations wont be the last of 2021.  I reckon people will be getting their next one later in the year.  There probably wont be enough verified data to nail down how long immunity lasts.  Starting again before winter will be a huge insurance policy against problems over the winter.

 

Later on we'll see how long immunity lasts.  If it's short then we'll probably be looking at a 'Forth Bridge' type of vaccination system.  Twice a year vaccinations until it's eradicated.

“Forth Bridge”?

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

A nod to the old urban myth that as soon as you finished painting the Forth Bridge you had to start at the other end again I assume. 

Thanks.

Pft. Am off to bed. Brain is not working any more today!

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Ach it was still shite mate. Book a table then get table service, stay away from other tables and wear a mask for a piss. Took the fun clean out of it. I didnt go back. 
Be glad to see the back of the pandemic restrictions if the numpties would just play the game.

I know what you mean re pubs . Atmosphere life and music sucked out of them last year when they were allowed to open . Completely against the whole vibe of pubs really 

18 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Won't stop the BBC and a few predictable posters on here drowning themselves in a pant-wetting furore.

Oh don’t I know it . I await their views 

17 minutes ago, JyTees said:

Folk having aneurysms at the non wearing of masks is pretty funny. If you think wearing a mask is the solution to the pandemic, you need help.

 

There's bigger fish to fry.

 

The fact that the biggest proponent of it on here hails from Hamilton should really tell you to direct your angst elsewhere.

So true . Most scientists believe masks are of only slight benefit really  

[luckyBatistuta]

9 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Coronavirus: Morrisons to ban shoppers who refuse to wear face masks https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55618408

Think Costco have banned anyone from entering without a covering and also those with health problems must wear a shield and this is quite right imo. I don’t see what the problem is with them wearing a shield over their face whilst in the shop. Just because they have an existing condition, doesn’t mean they cannot wear a shield. It’s not acceptable as far as I’m concerned that they can cough or sneeze in an enclosed public space without a mask, thus risking the lives of others, just because they have a medical condition themselves. Everyone’s life is a important, so the other 99% of people in the shop who are now in an enclosed environment with someone not wearing a mask are now at a higher risk. It’s about everyone’s health, not just a minority. Not sure if I’ve worded that perfectly, had a few now. 

[ri Alban]

Drive thro vaccines in Israel. 20% of the population vaccinated in 3 weeks. 

 

Israel are not giving Palestinians the vaccine. Pathetic. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by ri Alban

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I'm all for bringing the army in on this one. 👍

We're agreeing too much WO😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, jonesy said:

You mean, like pretty much the whole of 2020? At least we know what we're letting ourselves in for. There's not even been the slightest sign that those in charge look capable of learning from their mistakes, preventing future issues and having us back to 'normal' within a reasonable timescale. Governments and the media have failed us.

 

More and more people will be judging what normal is for themselves, and taking personal responsibility for their actions. Completely unpoliceable and, IMO, the necessary course of action to end this stasis-like non-existence. 

Yes, once the most vulnerable are vaccinated, the justification for lockdown goes out the window and we get back to normality as soon as is practicable. Some may not want to and can decide whether they want to go out or not, pubs, restaurants,  foreign travel etc, for themselves.

[Governor Tarkin]

8 hours ago, JyTees said:

Folk having aneurysms at the non wearing of masks is pretty funny. If you think wearing a mask is the solution to the pandemic, you need help.

 

 

 

The three Eastern European chaps that get on my bus each morning agree with you. On at different stops, sit together, nae masks.

They must have bigger fish to fry too.

[Lord Inglis]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Drive thro vaccines in Israel. 20% of the population vaccinated in 3 weeks. 

 

Israel are not giving Palestinians the vaccine. Pathetic. 

Would like to see drive through here. Must speed things up.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

Israel are not giving Palestinians the vaccine. Pathetic. 

 

Palestinians aint God's chosen people, buddy, so it's tough titty for them.

[DETTY29]

Using the Dundee Courier for vaccine updates, jings.

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1877716/covid-vaccine-tracker/

 

(Travelling Tabby for all things UK)

 

https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by DETTY29

[DETTY29]

And a reminder on current prioritisation list per JCVI recommendations.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Is the Fish due to announce new restrictions today?

 

Restricted movement due to trapped nerve, apparently.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

5 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Think Costco have banned anyone from entering without a covering and also those with health problems must wear a shield and this is quite right imo. I don’t see what the problem is with them wearing a shield over their face whilst in the shop. Just because they have an existing condition, doesn’t mean they cannot wear a shield. It’s not acceptable as far as I’m concerned that they can cough or sneeze in an enclosed public space without a mask, thus risking the lives of others, just because they have a medical condition themselves. Everyone’s life is a important, so the other 99% of people in the shop who are now in an enclosed environment with someone not wearing a mask are now at a higher risk. It’s about everyone’s health, not just a minority. Not sure if I’ve worded that perfectly, had a few now. 

Well said

 

otherwise they should get someone else to do their shopping or do online shop

 

no excuse anymore 

[OBE]

9 hours ago, JyTees said:

If you think wearing a mask is the solution to the pandemic, you need help.

 

 

 

Folk are beyond help if they assume other people are thinking this, much funnier.

[Nucky Thompson]

2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Talk of 3m social distance rule to be introduced. Recommendation from sage. 

It sounds like they are winging it again.

 

[manaliveits105]

Does morning tv really have to go into hospitals every morning for an update on misery we are all aware of 

[manaliveits105]

2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Talk of 3m social distance rule to be introduced. Recommendation from sage. 

There is something afoot lets hope we dont give an inch 

[manaliveits105]

GMTV  roll out Geoff Boycott to moan about not receiving his second jab for 12 weeks 

just F off ya mental knob 

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Restricted movement due to trapped nerve, apparently.

😂that mean she won't get to the podium Guv??

[OBE]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

GMTV  roll out Geoff Boycott to moan about not receiving his second jab for 12 weeks 

just F off ya mental knob 

 

Roll all the mental knobs out...get the pressure turned up.

[Harry Potter]

18 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

True.

 

The Scottish Government don't want to build a new Eye Hospital here, with ours on its last legs and are talking of sending Edinburgh people to Livi.  Seriously! 

 

Based on the **** ups with the Sick Kids and that Glasgow hospital, perhaps they have given up.

just reading this morning that theres a 16 month wait at the eye hospital.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

17 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Does morning tv really have to go into hospitals every morning for an update on misery we are all aware of 

If it gets the message across then fine

 

some people out there still (including some on here) don’t take it seriously enough and follow all the rules 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

There is something afoot lets hope we dont give an inch 

SAGE had also discussed at one of their meetings,  the option of a China style full lockdown. Power really does corrupt. 

Once the vaccine roll out gets up to speed, the Governments need to take back control from the academic theorists and set out a road map that allows people to live freely and to kick start the economy again. 

[Ray Gin]

29 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Does morning tv really have to go into hospitals every morning for an update on misery we are all aware of 

 

While there are morons still hellbent on downplaying the severity of the situation and claiming it is all a hoax, yes.

 

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

While there are morons still hellbent on downplaying the severity of the situation and claiming it is all a hoax, yes.

 

 

 

Sure you have some of them, but the constant negative headlines just make people switch off.

[Nucky Thompson]

I saw some teacher getting interviewed on TV this morning.

In the March lockdown they only had 4.5% of pupils attend (key workers and vulnerable)

This time 60% were wanting to attend. She had to put out an appeal to families and managed to get it down to 40%

 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

While there are morons still hellbent on downplaying the severity of the situation and claiming it is all a hoax, yes.

 

 

 

Do you think someone will go, "well the last 276 days of seeing misery on TV hasn't made me change my ways, but do you know what, day 277 has really made me reassess my views, I'm going to behave differently today."

 

We've taken a three prong approach to compliance/severity realisation:

 

- fear mongering

- guilt tripping/shaming

- half-assed enforcement

 

For those that haven't fallen into line from one of, or a combination, of those things yet, just repeating the same act over and over again isn't going to suddenly make them.

 

For a lot of people it will be as simple as they aren't bothered about catching the virus and think that those who are afraid of it, are more than welcome to stay at home. You won't change them with horror reels on the news.

 

[manaliveits105]

Now we are out of EU I think we should be using 6 foot or 9 foot anyway - people might understand better

obviously up here it would be 6 fit and Nicky and jason could bring out a new slogan

 

DONT BE A TIT STAY SIX FIT 

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Do you think someone will go, "well the last 276 days of seeing misery on TV hasn't made me change my ways, but do you know what, day 277 has really made me reassess my views, I'm going to behave differently today."

 

We've taken a three prong approach to compliance/severity realisation:

 

- fear mongering

- guilt tripping/shaming

- half-assed enforcement

 

For those that haven't fallen into line from one of, or a combination, of those things yet, just repeating the same act over and over again isn't going to suddenly make them.

 

For a lot of people it will be as simple as they aren't bothered about catching the virus and think that those who are afraid of it, are more than welcome to stay at home. You won't change them with horror reels on the news.

 

 

 

Undoubtedly some absolute spanners will still deny the most obvious of facts but surely not all are completely beyond hope.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, jonesy said:

You mean, like pretty much the whole of 2020? At least we know what we're letting ourselves in for. There's not even been the slightest sign that those in charge look capable of learning from their mistakes, preventing future issues and having us back to 'normal' within a reasonable timescale. Governments and the media have failed us.

 

More and more people will be judging what normal is for themselves, and taking personal responsibility for their actions. Completely unpoliceable and, IMO, the necessary course of action to end this stasis-like non-existence. 

Great post 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Undoubtedly some absolute spanners will still deny the most obvious of facts but surely not all are completely beyond hope.

 

 

 

Sadly I think some are - they just don't care and if nobody is challenging them will continue in this way.

[Enzo Chiefo]

19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Sure you have some of them, but the constant negative headlines just make people switch off.

Yes, that's what I do. Not sure what they're trying to achieve. We know they're busy but it's only one side of it. The overwhelming majority of those with Covid recover quickly in the community. Most people understand that and still respect the basic rules. Those that have raves etc are unlikely to be watching the News anyway imo

[Samuel Camazzola]

I'd prefer if the security staff were given a mandate to ensure the scaffs washed their hands upon entering. 

 

I've mentioned it before but the number of tramps that visit the toilets at Tynie without washing their hands is shameful. 

[Taffin]

14 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Undoubtedly some absolute spanners will still deny the most obvious of facts but surely not all are completely beyond hope.

 

 

 

Some aren't denying facts though, they just fundamentally see it differently. Cressida Dick is reported today saying it's preposterous for anyone to be unaware of our duty to prevent the spread of the virus. Now pragmatically that seems like the right, moral and sensible thing to do but on the flip side where has a 'duty' to prevent the spread of this virus come from? Human duty is entirely constructed based on people's opinions. The majority share her opinion but some just don't and never will. You could argue we have inherent natural duties to ensure the existence of our species, but this isn't a threat to that.

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Taffin

[Weakened Offender]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We're agreeing too much WO😂

 

Ken 😬

[OBE]

6 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

I'd prefer if the security staff were given a mandate to ensure the scaffs washed their hands upon entering. 

 

I've mentioned it before but the number of tramps that visit the toilets at Tynie without washing their hands is shameful. 

 

Yes, Hobo's in the Roseburn...

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Some aren't denying facts though, they just fundamentally see it differently. Cressida Dick is reported today saying it's preposterous for anyone to be unaware of our duty to prevent the spread of the virus. Now pragmatically that seems like the right, moral and sensible thing to do but on the flip side where has a 'duty' to prevent the spread of this virus come from? Human duty is entirely constructed based on people's opinions. The majority share her opinion but some just don't and never will. You could argue we have inherent natural duties to ensure the existence of our species, but this isn't a threat to that.

 

That's correct. The old mantra about repeating something often enough and it is assumed to be true. The virus , like all coronaviruses, will spread in the winter next year and people will be inconvenienced by catching it. With the most vulnerable vaccinated our duty will have moved from stopping the spread of the virus to rebuilding the economy and allowing people to live rather than exist.  That's where our duty will lie in a couple of months.

[Dazo]

45 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Undoubtedly some absolute spanners will still deny the most obvious of facts but surely not all are completely beyond hope.

 

 

Don’t think it’s anything to do with denial, people are either fed up or don’t give a ****. Everyone is aware of the facts. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Don’t think it’s anything to do with denial, people are either fed up or don’t give a ****. Everyone is aware of the facts. 

All the above are twits then 

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's correct. The old mantra about repeating something often enough and it is assumed to be true. The virus , like all coronaviruses, will spread in the winter next year and people will be inconvenienced by catching it. With the most vulnerable vaccinated our duty will have moved from stopping the spread of the virus to rebuilding the economy and allowing people to live rather than exist.  That's where our duty will lie in a couple of months.

 

True, but also I'm still not convinced there is a duty to not spread a virus unintentionally; intentionally, absolutely 100%, people testing positive and then not isolating are the absolute pits. But this virus (disease) accounted for 13% of deaths in 2020, did we have a duty to prevent whatever killed the other 87%?