Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Radio Ga Ga]

21 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

She already has. What are the benefits of this vaccine? 

I don’t want to be rude, but I think you should step away from this thread as you’re coming across as an absolute clown, FFS, ‘What are the benefits of vaccine’ you surely can’t be serious. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

Ugh Midlothian numbers - something is weird. They drop right down and then there appears to be a spike.. happened 2 weeks ago and then also on Monday. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

As i understand it the Astrazenica vaccine is capable of preventing onward transmission because it stops you getting infected although not 100% obviously.

 

 

 

But it's not been approved as yet, and there is no guarantee's that the AstraZenica vaccine will get approved, whilst on the other hand the Pfizer vaccine has been approved, so you have to go with that one until such time if or when the AstraZenica vaccine gets approved.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

But it's not been approved as yet, and there is no guarantee's that the AstraZenica vaccine will get approved, whilst on the other hand the Pfizer vaccine has been approved, so you have to go with that one until such time if or when the AstraZenica vaccine gets approved.

 

 

Ivan algorithms can't catch Covid, J-J, so doug has no dog in this fight.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

32 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Pans' comment is a good one. Why are we rushing into the Pfizer deal? What does it do to help?

 

None of us know the ins & outs of the contract the UK government has with Pfizer, but there is the distinct possiblity, that the UK government has had to pay a down payment up front to secure X number of vaccines and to be at the front of the queue, so for all we know this 800,000 doses have already been paid for.

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

None of us know the ins & outs of the contract the UK government has with Pfizer, but there is the distinct possiblity, that the UK government has had to pay a down payment up front to secure X number of vaccines and to be at the front of the queue, so for all we know this 800,000 doses have already been paid for.

 

That is pretty much it tbh. They also have deals with Astrazaneca so when that gets approval (next week I believe) then that one will also be rolled out.

[Mikey1874]

36 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Pans' comment is a good one. Why are we rushing into the Pfizer deal? What does it do to help?

 

'Rushing' is what has happened since January as soon as China shared the genetic map of the virus. To avoid the world's economy collapsing. And save lives. 

 

But what is announced today was set in motion in January or soon after when Governments including the UK removed the financial risk for the vaccine companies. Which accelerated the process. This isn't a rush job. It's been planned carefully for 8 to 10 months. 

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

'Rushing' is what has happened since January as soon as China shared the genetic map of the virus. To avoid the world's economy collapsing. And save lives. 

 

But what is announced today was set in motion in January or soon after when Governments including the UK removed the financial risk for the vaccine companies. Which accelerated the process. This isn't a rush job. It's been planned carefully for 8 to 10 months. 

 

Correct.

 

Governments across the globe hedged bets against a number of vaccine trial developments.  Not doing so would have left the UK at the end of the queue for vaccines.

 

The UK government made an arse of PPE procurement at the start of the pandemic and got caned for it.  What they have done here is take a number of options on and hopefully the end result is that the UK emerges slowly into recovery in the second and third quarters of 2021.

 

As for approval of the vaccines, the government has put that in the hands of the experts and its them alone that decide to approve or reject vaccine candidates.

Edited December 2, 2020 by frankblack

[Beni]

The link below gives details of all the vaccines the UK has ordered. Seems sensible to cover so many bases as it wasn't known which vaccines would be effective, be safe, or which would be first.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-secures-5-million-doses-of-moderna-vaccine

[Kiwidoug]

Great news this.  Let's hope it goes like clockwork all round the world.  By Easter, this curse of a virus might just seem a distant memory.

 

Well done to the unsung heroes, in this case scientists, who are making this possible.

 

 

[graygo]

52 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Hancock volunteering to get vaccine live on TV in attempt to show its safe. Even though the temptation would be to stick it in his neck, suppose its a good thing if it helps persuade people to take it. Bet there will be some who say its a fake he gets. 

 

A bit like Boris and Trump shaking hands with people in Covid wards in hospital? 

(Not being serious)

[coconut doug]

47 minutes ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

I don’t want to be rude, but I think you should step away from this thread as you’re coming across as an absolute clown, FFS, ‘What are the benefits of vaccine’ you surely can’t be serious. 

 

Why don't you tell me what they are then?

[chester copperpot]

5 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

I was meant to have “ urgent “ referral to NHS which meant I should have been seen without two weeks . Never heard within two weeks so called them again and they said it wasn’t “ urgent urgent “ type !!!’ Needless to say I wasn’t happy . I contacted my msp as well as placing formal complaint . I had to go to private care last week cause I didn’t want to wait . Shocking state of affairs with Lothian NHS . Isn’t helped by the lies spun by Leitch and others saying the NHS is back up to speed . It’s not 

 

 

I work for NHS Lanarkshire now and can confirm we are definitely not back up to speed yet. 

 

I was taken on in a specialist role 6 months ago and have not even seen a patient yet. 

[Brighton Jambo]

3 hours ago, Chong said:

Might not be the great thing everyone thinks it is. The testing was done on a 100% health group who had extensive screening prior to trials. Not to mention the age group too. If your older or have pre-existing health conditions I cant see why you would be happy to have this vaccine on the say-so of Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson. 

It is far too short a duration of the study that doesn't allow for a realistic estimation of the late effects. Although Pfizer apparently submitted an application for emergency approval on 1st of December 2020. Hmmm, not for me thanks. Next...

It’s not on the say so of Boris and Matt Hancock though is it?  It’s on the say so of the MHRA who are one of the most respected independent regulatory bodies in the world.  Their entire credibility, which is essential for health way beyond just Covid, is at stake if they get this wrong.  If you think they would rush this and cut corners to please a couple of politicians then you clearly know nothing of the MHRA and the calibre of the people who work for it.

 

Many of us are guilty of letting political chat onto this thread, me included, but when you let your political views be a reason to dissuade people from talking a vaccine that’s bang out of order.  

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Oh dunno, might be that it stops people catching Covid. 

In a covid pandemic, that might, just might, be a worthwhile step. 

Don't bother replying as debate is pointless. You and Pans hate UK government more than you want vaccine. Very strange attitude from very strange people. 

 

You  still can't debate anything without personal insults and you still refuse to consider an alternative point of view.

Yes it might be a worthwhile step but we don't know yet and the science tells us the Astrazenica option is a better option. 

 

In other news this current government continues to give money to their friends to provide non existent goods and services and continues continues to award contracts to non specialist companies in highly specialised fields. Pfizer continues to pay out Billions in compensation for drugs that were not properly tested and caused death and serious illness because they falsified their research findings. 

 

You go all in with the Tories and big Pharma and abuse anybody who questions it. 

 

Have you looked to see what this vaccine brings us yet? will it help get the pubs open ASAP?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

The link below gives details of all the vaccines the UK has ordered. Seems sensible to cover so many bases as it wasn't known which vaccines would be effective, be safe, or which would be first.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-secures-5-million-doses-of-moderna-vaccine

 

Indeed, everyone no matter what their political persuasion is, should be thankful that the government have it seems, at least got this thing right, and by being pro-active have secured more than enough doses of different vaccines to vaccinate the entire UK population and everyone in our dependant territories as well.

[Radio Ga Ga]

12 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Why don't you tell me what they are then?

Vaccination is a safe and effective way to prevent disease and save lives – now more than ever. Today there are vaccines available to protect against at least 20 diseases, such as diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, influenza and measles. Together, these vaccines save the lives of up to 3 million people every year.

When we get vaccinated, we aren’t just protecting ourselves, but also those around us. Some people, like those who are seriously ill, are advised not to get certain vaccines – so they depend on the rest of us to get vaccinated and help reduce the spread of disease. 

During the COVID-19 pandemic, vaccination continues to be critically important. The pandemic has caused a decline in the number of children receiving routine immunizations, which could lead to an increase in illness and death from preventable diseases. WHO has  urged countries to ensure that essential immunization and health services continue, despite the challenges posed by COVID-19.More information about the importance of vaccines is available 

[coconut doug]

55 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

None of us know the ins & outs of the contract the UK government has with Pfizer, but there is the distinct possiblity, that the UK government has had to pay a down payment up front to secure X number of vaccines and to be at the front of the queue, so for all we know this 800,000 doses have already been paid for.

 

They will have been paid for and it may have been the right thing to do but how is this vaccine going to contribute to the eradication of Covid if we don't know whether it prevents an individual getting the virus or from passing it on. It may create more problems than it solves, a bit like a mask really.

[Radio Ga Ga]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

They will have been paid for and it may have been the right thing to do but how is this vaccine going to contribute to the eradication of Covid if we don't know whether it prevents an individual getting the virus or from passing it on. It may create more problems than it solves, a bit like a mask really.

Source WHO -

Vaccines reduce risks of getting a disease by working with your body’s natural defenses to build protection. When you get a vaccine, your immune system responds. It:

• Recognizes the invading germ, such as the virus or bacteria.

• Produces antibodies. Antibodies are proteins produced naturally by the immune system to fight disease. 

• Remembers the disease and how to fight it. If you are then exposed to the germ in the future, your immune system can quickly destroy it before you become unwell.

The vaccine is therefore a safe and clever way to produce an immune response in the body, without causing illness.

Our immune systems are designed to remember. Once exposed to one or more doses of a vaccine, we typically remain protected against a disease for years, decades or even a lifetime. This is what makes vaccines so effective. Rather than treating a disease after it occurs, vaccines prevent us in the first instance from getting sick.

 

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

You  still can't debate anything without personal insults and you still refuse to consider an alternative point of view.

Yes it might be a worthwhile step but we don't know yet and the science tells us the Astrazenica option is a better option. 

 

In other news this current government continues to give money to their friends to provide non existent goods and services and continues continues to award contracts to non specialist companies in highly specialised fields. Pfizer continues to pay out Billions in compensation for drugs that were not properly tested and caused death and serious illness because they falsified their research findings. 

 

You go all in with the Tories and big Pharma and abuse anybody who questions it. 

 

Have you looked to see what this vaccine brings us yet? will it help get the pubs open ASAP?

Are you trying to say this vaccine is a Tory ploy to make money?

They have more invested in the Oxford vaccine which is not for profit 

[coconut doug]

6 minutes ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

Vaccination is a safe and effective way to prevent disease and save lives – now more than ever. Today there are vaccines available to protect against at least 20 diseases, such as diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, influenza and measles. Together, these vaccines save the lives of up to 3 million people every year.

When we get vaccinated, we aren’t just protecting ourselves, but also those around us. Some people, like those who are seriously ill, are advised not to get certain vaccines – so they depend on the rest of us to get vaccinated and help reduce the spread of disease. 

During the COVID-19 pandemic, vaccination continues to be critically important. The pandemic has caused a decline in the number of children receiving routine immunizations, which could lead to an increase in illness and death from preventable diseases. WHO has  urged countries to ensure that essential immunization and health services continue, despite the challenges posed by COVID-19.More information about the importance of vaccines is available 

 

 Do we know that this vaccine does this? "When we get vaccinated, we aren’t just protecting ourselves, but also those around us."

 

And your second point is crucial too. Seriously ill and some other groups including the elderly are excluded from vaccinations. Could it be that those who stand to gain the most from the mitigation of symptoms are those who are at the greatest risk i.e. the elderly and those with underlying health problems.

[Pasquale for King]

An interesting take on today’s announcement. 
“For those wondering why this vaccine was launched in such a hurry, EU law which is still binding in the UK until January 1st, allows member states to fast track drugs in case of an emergency. You would think that getting a vaccine pdq to save lives would be the cause of the emergency.

In this case however, the emergency is that after January 1st, the UK will no longer be able to bring in supplies of the vaccine through this route or have fast track access from the EU. 

Of course that is not the message being touted by Johnsons kakistocrats and across the media. Instead it is all jingoistic shite as usual”. 

[coconut doug]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

An interesting take on today’s announcement. 
“For those wondering why this vaccine was launched in such a hurry, EU law which is still binding in the UK until January 1st, allows member states to fast track drugs in case of an emergency. You would think that getting a vaccine pdq to save lives would be the cause of the emergency.

In this case however, the emergency is that after January 1st, the UK will no longer be able to bring in supplies of the vaccine through this route or have fast track access from the EU. 

Of course that is not the message being touted by Johnsons kakistocrats and across the media. Instead it is all jingoistic shite as usual”. 

 

Made in Belgium.  HMG says they can beat any Brexit restrictions. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

Made in Belgium.  HMG says they can beat any Brexit restrictions. 

They say a lot of stuff that’s made up nonsense don’t they?

Edited December 2, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[coconut doug]

11 minutes ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

Source WHO -

Vaccines reduce risks of getting a disease by working with your body’s natural defenses to build protection. When you get a vaccine, your immune system responds. It:

• Recognizes the invading germ, such as the virus or bacteria.

• Produces antibodies. Antibodies are proteins produced naturally by the immune system to fight disease. 

• Remembers the disease and how to fight it. If you are then exposed to the germ in the future, your immune system can quickly destroy it before you become unwell.

The vaccine is therefore a safe and clever way to produce an immune response in the body, without causing illness.

Our immune systems are designed to remember. Once exposed to one or more doses of a vaccine, we typically remain protected against a disease for years, decades or even a lifetime. This is what makes vaccines so effective. Rather than treating a disease after it occurs, vaccines prevent us in the first instance from getting sick.

 

 

But what about everybody else?

 

What about the elderly and those with underlying health problems?

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

I heard that the vaccine makes you vote Tory.

There's probably a few on this thread believe that 

[Chong]

24 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

It’s not on the say so of Boris and Matt Hancock though is it?  It’s on the say so of the MHRA who are one of the most respected independent regulatory bodies in the world.  Their entire credibility, which is essential for health way beyond just Covid, is at stake if they get this wrong.  If you think they would rush this and cut corners to please a couple of politicians then you clearly know nothing of the MHRA and the calibre of the people who work for it.

 

Many of us are guilty of letting political chat onto this thread, me included, but when you let your political views be a reason to dissuade people from talking a vaccine that’s bang out of order.  

 

Of course,  it is a political issue so it's pretty difficult to not let political debate in. I have not dissuaded anyone from taking a vaccine and I'm certainly not out of order in any comment I've made. I'm not thinking they've cut corners I know they have....

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines 

 

should always read the small print.

[coconut doug]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I heard that the vaccine makes you vote Tory.

 

If that's the case then it's been around for years. There can be no other reason for voting Tory.

[Shanks]

Looks like we have a new type of anti-vaxxer, they are quite happy to have their kid take a type of vaccine but are too scared to take one themselves. 

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I heard that the vaccine makes you vote Tory.

 

I've heard that it turns you into Margret Thatcher.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

If that's the case then it's been around for years. There can be no other reason for voting Tory.

 

Unless you live somewhere pleasant and are reasonably well off.

[Herbert.]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I've heard that it turns you into Margret Thatcher.

 

 

 

 

At least my cock will get bigger.

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

 

Margaret Thatcher tell you that?

 

I have a direct line to Purgatory now that I'm back in the office.

[Mikey1874]

49 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

It’s not on the say so of Boris and Matt Hancock though is it?  It’s on the say so of the MHRA who are one of the most respected independent regulatory bodies in the world.  Their entire credibility, which is essential for health way beyond just Covid, is at stake if they get this wrong.  If you think they would rush this and cut corners to please a couple of politicians then you clearly know nothing of the MHRA and the calibre of the people who work for it.

 

Many of us are guilty of letting political chat onto this thread, me included, but when you let your political views be a reason to dissuade people from talking a vaccine that’s bang out of order.  

 

Some things are more affected by politics. It looks to me a Government that favours the private sector chose to give test and trace to private companies rather than trust established public health professionals.

 

But vaccines are one of these things with well established processes outside politics. What the politicians did very well was to sign a blank cheque to remove many of the slower parts of vaccine development. 

[Felix Lighter]

Is there peer reviewed data on the prevalence of viral mutation in the vaccinated host versus natural built immunity, I wonder?  

As a layman and speaking from the perspective of I hope,common sense, I'd be more inclined to think that mutation is more likely in a vaccinated individual. IIRC vaccines are basically made from dead bits of viral DNA/RNA? which produce the immune response, if the same living virus were to mutate a different mechanism with which it invades the host cell as to what has been previously vaccinated against then the immune system would not recognise the mutation. If immunity is naturally built from previous infection, rather than just a few dead bits of genetic code in a vaccine, the immune system would surely recognise the majority of the genetic make up of the virus minus the mutation but defend against it anyway. Isn't that why, although we aren't immune, the seasonal cold has a not too drastic effect on the majority of us?     

[manaliveits105]

56 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I've heard that it turns you into Margret Thatcher.

😍😍

[Don Dan]

22 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

Is there peer reviewed data on the prevalence of viral mutation in the vaccinated host versus natural built immunity, I wonder?  

As a layman and speaking from the perspective of I hope,common sense, I'd be more inclined to think that mutation is more likely in a vaccinated individual. IIRC vaccines are basically made from dead bits of viral DNA/RNA? which produce the immune response, if the same living virus were to mutate a different mechanism with which it invades the host cell as to what has been previously vaccinated against then the immune system would not recognise the mutation. If immunity is naturally built from previous infection, rather than just a few dead bits of genetic code in a vaccine, the immune system would surely recognise the majority of the genetic make up of the virus minus the mutation but defend against it anyway. Isn't that why, although we aren't immune, the seasonal cold has a not too drastic effect on the majority of us?     

Like the flu vaccine it changes every year as the strain of flue changes. 

[manaliveits105]

"The searchlights of science have found the enemy "

Gawn yersel Boris 

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

"The searchlights of science have found the enemy "

Gawn yersel Boris 

 
Next years must have Christmas Present. Boris Johnson’s Quotes! 
 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

In other good news today the 7 day average for deaths with a +ve test fell below 30 for the 1st time since November 10th. 

Brian any idea what the statistics are for Edinburgh today?

[Chong]

21 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

That document shows the process for how this vaccine was licensed, not how corners were cut. 

 

Removing the liability of manufacturers isn't cutting corners? 

[Don Dan]

Where’s @redjambo the past couple of days? Hope he/she is ok! 
we miss the helpful daily figure updates that get posted.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, chester copperpot said:

 

 

I work for NHS Lanarkshire now and can confirm we are definitely not back up to speed yet. 

 

I was taken on in a specialist role 6 months ago and have not even seen a patient yet. 

 

1 hour ago, chester copperpot said:

 

 

I work for NHS Lanarkshire now and can confirm we are definitely not back up to speed yet. 

 

I was taken on in a specialist role 6 months ago and have not even seen a patient yet. 

Yes it seems to be the pattern in most health boards in Scotland. 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, Chong said:

 

Of course,  it is a political issue so it's pretty difficult to not let political debate in. I have not dissuaded anyone from taking a vaccine and I'm certainly not out of order in any comment I've made. I'm not thinking they've cut corners I know they have....

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines 

 

should always read the small print.

Have you actually read what you linked to?  It has absolute nothing to do with the independence of the MHRA and their analysis of the data.  

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

No, it is a requirement of the process to allow for the emergency approval of a vaccine. Nothing sinister about it and is all explained in detail in the link you gave.

This, well said. 

[Brighton Jambo]

An interesting scenario to ponder.  Imagine if the number of people who won’t take the virus means that some level of restrictions has to remain permanently in place.  Things could get pretty divisive with those wanting a return to normal challenging those who won’t take the vaccine.  
 

p.s.  yes I did get this thought from watching Jonathan penalty shoot out Van Tam.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Felix Lighter]

7 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Like the flu vaccine it changes every year as the strain of flue changes. 

 

I've never had a flu vaccination, and as far as I can remember, unless I'm fortunate to possess a very robust immune system, I've never had the flu. Folk tend to say "if you've had the flu you'd know all about it".

Like I asked, I wonder if viral mutation is more prevalent in vaccinated individuals than those who were full blown and recovered with natural immunity. Could it be the case that vaccination is more likely to cause a virus to mutate or not? If that were the case then wouldn't vaccinating otherwise healthy people be a very dangerous proposition?

Surely studies have been done to determine?

Anyway just musing, with all the political custard pie flinging going on here I thought I'd put my thoughts out there, and they might very well be 'out there'.🙂  

 

[Don Dan]

6 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

Like I asked, I wonder if viral mutation is more prevalent in vaccinated individuals than those who were full blown and recovered with natural immunity. Could it be the case that vaccination is more likely to cause a virus to mutate or not? If that were the case then wouldn't vaccinating otherwise healthy people be a very dangerous proposition?

No disrespect to posters on here but you are asking the wrong people with the perfect valid questions you pose. 
Its widely known viruses mutate. As I said earlier in a reply to you that the flu virus changes every year and the tweak the vaccine to match the strain. They will no doubt do that with the Covid19 vaccine.

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

onanist

Must admit I had to look that one up. 🤣

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

But what about everybody else?

 

What about the elderly and those with underlying health problems?

If you dont want to be vaccinated then dont be. Your personal choice.

Let others who want to be vaccinated carry on, thats their personal choice.

No one is forcing you to be vaccinated. Ever.