frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, coconut doug said: 80% not enough then? Nowhere near. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, coconut doug said: 80% not enough then? Said someone who know **** all about running a business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Is there no support for businesses then? Who's to blame for that? As I said, that will the the Scottish Government as they are closing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, GinRummy said: Why don’t you tell us. Government gives 80% of wages and/or profits to self employed does it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, coconut doug said: Government gives 80% of wages and/or profits to self employed does it not? I’m a director of a ltd company. What support has my company had in lockdown 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, frankblack said: As I said, that will the the Scottish Government as they are closing them. Closing businesses where exactly? Are businesses open everywhere else? Those who are forced to close are compensated often getting 80% of normal earnings for doing absolutely nothing. A situation that seems to irk many when it is given to workers but somehow is not enough for businesses. There's a pandemic on and things are not perfect. We all have to make sacrifices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: I’m a director of a ltd company. What support has my company had in lockdown 2. Why don't you tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Said someone who know **** all about running a business You don't know anything about me and my work experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, frankblack said: Nowhere near. What do you think would be a more appropriate figure then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, coconut doug said: Why don't you tell us? You already have. 80% of staff wages. Since March 30k of cash reserves have been swallowed up, 50k bounce back loan spent and owe hmrc about 45k. What prospects do you think businesses have going into the coming recession with 10’s if not 100s of thousands of pounds worth of debt as a starting point? What do you think is going to happen to all those folk currently getting 80% of their wage after the free money stops? The government is not doing enough to support SME’s who have been forced to close and is doing practically nothing for companies who are still open but are operating at huge losses directly caused by the pandemic. Yes they are supporting employees but that is nowhere near enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, frankblack said: Look at Edinburgh City. To quote The Eagles - you can check out any time but you can never leave (T3). Where was Edinburgh in relation to Midlothian when the decision was made? It has already been explained to you why Edinburgh is an exceptional case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, coconut doug said: You don't know anything about me and my work experience. It’s blatantly obvious by your posts you don’t know the first thing about running a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Closing businesses where exactly? Are businesses open everywhere else? Those who are forced to close are compensated often getting 80% of normal earnings for doing absolutely nothing. A situation that seems to irk many when it is given to workers but somehow is not enough for businesses. There's a pandemic on and things are not perfect. We all have to make sacrifices. Doug, normally I respect your answers even if I disagree but you are miles off on this one. Paying furlough to retain employees won't generate income to pay the overheads every business has - rent, utilities, and many others. The fact those businesses are losing money is because the Scottish Government has closed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, redjambo said: The latest 7-day infection rates per council. Midlothian and East Lothian tier 2 designations expected on Tuesday. Council Area Tier 7-day per-100,000 cases Today Yesterday Change Renfrewshire 4 250 260 -10 North Lanarkshire 4 228 235 -7 South Lanarkshire 4 228 233 -5 Glasgow City 4 218 235 -17 East Renfrewshire 4 191 195 -4 West Lothian 4 183 193 -10 Stirling 4 178 210 -32 Clackmannanshire 3 150 165 -15 East Dunbartonshire 4 143 161 -18 East Ayrshire 4 141 152 -11 West Dunbartonshire 4 141 142 -1 South Ayrshire 4 126 153 -27 North Ayrshire 3 123 124 -1 Perth and Kinross 3 115 116 -1 Fife 3 109 116 -7 Dundee City 3 108 102 6 Midlothian 2 97 101 -4 Edinburgh City 3 89 84 5 Inverclyde 3 89 99 -10 Angus 3 82 88 -6 Falkirk 3 81 85 -4 Scottish Borders 2 65 74 -9 Aberdeenshire 2 64 64 0 East Lothian 2 57 48 9 Aberdeen City 2 52 51 1 Dumfries and Galloway 2 33 34 -1 Argyll and Bute 2 31 31 0 Moray 1 20 25 -5 Highland 1 17 19 -2 Shetland Islands 1 13 13 0 Orkney Islands 1 4 4 0 Na h-Eileanan Siar 1 0 0 0 Thanks for posting these updates, I appreciate them as they are very clear and easy to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Where was Edinburgh in relation to Midlothian when the decision was made? It has already been explained to you why Edinburgh is an exceptional case. Excuse me if I missed it, but please explain how Edinburgh can be an exceptional case different from say Fife or the Borders? What criteria exactly is it that Edinburgh has to meet to get out of this "two week circuit breaker" from the Scottish Government? This is exactly why the Scottish Government has far too much power and is meddling in decision making that should be driven by one criteria only - the science without political disgression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said: Thanks for posting these updates, I appreciate them as they are very clear and easy to understand My pleasure, Carl. Funny you say that though, because I'm thinking of making it slightly more complex as of tomorrow by including an extra column showing how much the figures have changed since 21 November, the first full day of the Tier 4s, so that we can possibly see if the placing of some council areas in that tier makes a difference, for example when compared against those areas which remained in Tier 3. If it makes it too complex though, I'll remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 Whilst there is sympathy for many who does deserve support and to what level ? Who is going to pay for it ?....are you willing to pay more in tax for the next few years ? Hospitality is just one industry and we have seen far more losses in retail for example.....I did not notice the outcry for them Many companies are in my opinion taking advantage of the pandemic to make large cuts and changes to their workforce with little outcry....the results of which will not be seen for a while In Scotland we are being led by someone trying their best but whose manner is becoming more and more autocratic with her failure to go into detail and her failure to discuss and explain leaving many angry and frustrated with little logic to decisions made...remember it was all about the science and now other factors are taken onto account and those are not black and white and full of discrepancies when scrutinised in detail. Our FM knows this so she avoids talking about it or just ignores the impact of her decisions and for a while we went along with it but no more it seems and rightly some are starting to ask for details and why her opinion is one we should follow and better than our opinion. Her failures are being laid bare as time moves on and far from being seen as strong she is now being seen as stubborn She needs to use this lockdown to review and plan for the future, thinking hard about her attitude and approach to what is to come. Of course we are part of the bigger UK picture and funding for much of what is required is not in Scotland's hands such as the furlough scheme....sometimes we forget this as well.....its not all controlled by the Scottish government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, frankblack said: I think Midlothian are going to miss out. I'm not so sure. There are other indicators and factors involved and it would also be a tough call to make. They may announce that it will go into Tier 2 as planned but that they'll review the situation after a week. Usually when a decision has been made or is going to possibly be made, there's some sort of advanced warning leaked that it is going to (possibly) happen, and I personally haven't seen any such leak about Midlothian possibly not going into Tier 2. In addition to that, the daily case rate in Midlothian has dropped over the last few days - there were only 5 infections reported today. In other words, I have no idea what they're going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, CJGJ said: Whilst there is sympathy for many who does deserve support and to what level ? Who is going to pay for it ?....are you willing to pay more in tax for the next few years ? Hospitality is just one industry and we have seen far more losses in retail for example.....I did not notice the outcry for them Many companies are in my opinion taking advantage of the pandemic to make large cuts and changes to their workforce with little outcry....the results of which will not be seen for a while In Scotland we are being led by someone trying their best but whose manner is becoming more and more autocratic with her failure to go into detail and her failure to discuss and explain leaving many angry and frustrated with little logic to decisions made...remember it was all about the science and now other factors are taken onto account and those are not black and white and full of discrepancies when scrutinised in detail. Our FM knows this so she avoids talking about it or just ignores the impact of her decisions and for a while we went along with it but no more it seems and rightly some are starting to ask for details and why her opinion is one we should follow and better than our opinion. Her failures are being laid bare as time moves on and far from being seen as strong she is now being seen as stubborn She needs to use this lockdown to review and plan for the future, thinking hard about her attitude and approach to what is to come. Of course we are part of the bigger UK picture and funding for much of what is required is not in Scotland's hands such as the furlough scheme....sometimes we forget this as well.....its not all controlled by the Scottish government Fair and balanced post. I would add that this isn’t just a problem for business but a problem for everyone. I agree big corporations and large private ltd companies will take advantage of the situation but there are a million SMEs who have employees and are ltd companies. Many of them just won’t be trading when the free cash stops. It’s anyone’s guess how that will affect the economy but it won’t be good and could be catastrophic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, redjambo said: My pleasure, Carl. Funny you say that though, because I'm thinking of making it slightly more complex as of tomorrow by including an extra column showing how much the figures have changed since 21 November, the first full day of the Tier 4s, so that we can possibly see if the placing of some council areas in that tier makes a difference, for example when compared against those areas which remained in Tier 3. If it makes it too complex though, I'll remove it. That sounds great. My issue is that too many outlets providing a lot of stats with no local detail. I live in Midlothian so your posts are of interest to me. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, frankblack said: Doug, normally I respect your answers even if I disagree but you are miles off on this one. Paying furlough to retain employees won't generate income to pay the overheads every business has - rent, utilities, and many others. The fact those businesses are losing money is because the Scottish Government has closed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1874 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said: There's a photo papers this morning of Princes Street showing it as busy with description of heaving. Find it hard to believe it was taken on Saturday. I walked to Prices street yesterday, got there about 10.30 and left about 2pm. Prince's Street was empty, shops were quiet and barely anyone walking about. The wife and I were only people in Pakora bar where we had lunch. All I can think us media desperate to portray issues where none exist. Was in the centre of town today, was like a ghost town considering Christmas on the horizon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, frankblack said: Doug, normally I respect your answers even if I disagree but you are miles off on this one. Paying furlough to retain employees won't generate income to pay the overheads every business has - rent, utilities, and many others. The fact those businesses are losing money is because the Scottish Government has closed them. The Scottish gov and every other gov has closed businesses and of course there are still some overheads but opening them up kills people. Imo compensation is more that generous and if some businesses fold so be it. Some people will lose their jobs too. Some of these hospitality businesses were reaching the non viable stage anyway and patronage will be down right across the sector as well because many people do not want to risk catching the virus by doing something as frivolous as hanging around in a pub or restaurant. Getting the virus under control and reducing it substantially is good for business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 57 minutes ago, frankblack said: Excuse me if I missed it, but please explain how Edinburgh can be an exceptional case different from say Fife or the Borders? What criteria exactly is it that Edinburgh has to meet to get out of this "two week circuit breaker" from the Scottish Government? This is exactly why the Scottish Government has far too much power and is meddling in decision making that should be driven by one criteria only - the science without political disgression. Edinburgh was higher than Midlothian when the decision was made. It was explained by the FM at the time that as people traveled from more places in higher numbers to Edinburgh than anywhere else relaxing the restrictions in Edinburgh would be much more likely to increase infections than doing the same in Penicuik or Tranent. Presumably there is data to support that view and the potential for increasing infection is a determining factor when deciding which tier places should be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The Scottish gov and every other gov has closed businesses and of course there are still some overheads but opening them up kills people. Imo compensation is more that generous and if some businesses fold so be it. Some people will lose their jobs too. Some of these hospitality businesses were reaching the non viable stage anyway and patronage will be down right across the sector as well because many people do not want to risk catching the virus by doing something as frivolous as hanging around in a pub or restaurant. Getting the virus under control and reducing it substantially is good for business. You still completely avoid the issue. There is NO COMPENSATION TO LIMITED COMPANIES only money which must be given directly to employees. Please explain how £0.00 is more than generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1874 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The Scottish gov and every other gov has closed businesses and of course there are still some overheads but opening them up kills people. Imo compensation is more that generous and if some businesses fold so be it. Some people will lose their jobs too. Some of these hospitality businesses were reaching the non viable stage anyway and patronage will be down right across the sector as well because many people do not want to risk catching the virus by doing something as frivolous as hanging around in a pub or restaurant. Getting the virus under control and reducing it substantially is good for business. I’ll assume your sitting pretty employment wise to be coming out with statements like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The Scottish gov and every other gov has closed businesses and of course there are still some overheads but opening them up kills people. Imo compensation is more that generous and if some businesses fold so be it. Some people will lose their jobs too. Some of these hospitality businesses were reaching the non viable stage anyway and patronage will be down right across the sector as well because many people do not want to risk catching the virus by doing something as frivolous as hanging around in a pub or restaurant. Getting the virus under control and reducing it substantially is good for business. I can't agree with anything you have posted above. I'm not just talking about hospitality here - I'm referring to any SME, which can range from hospitality to retail. Any business has massive overheads, and your attitude is completely lacking in understanding of basic economics. Any economy relies on SMEs and larger employers to survive. I don't accept your argument that these businesses were going to fail anyway, so just let them. That just isn't true. As for hospitality, that argument is nonsensical. Sure a lot of businesses had to make adjustments during the pandemic, notably installing costly measures such as track and trace stations, hand sanitisers, setting up one way systems, and reducing their capacity to facilitate social distancing between tables. These businesses did this in the belief that the Scottish Government would notice how well run and compliant they were. Instead they got shafted royally by the Scottish Government who won't provide the data to justify hammering them a second time. To make matters worse they were promised they would only be shutting for their two week circuit breaker during the school holiday, and that was a blatant lie. The Scottish Government are all over the place, misleading the public and business and I'm stunned by your attempts to defend them here. What we are seeing now are a complete loss of control from the SG and closing hospitality backfiring as I have witnessed by my own eyes with the Take Away Pints scheme being operated outside pubs causing large gatherings of people without social distancing. Edited November 22, 2020 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Edinburgh was higher than Midlothian when the decision was made. It was explained by the FM at the time that as people traveled from more places in higher numbers to Edinburgh than anywhere else relaxing the restrictions in Edinburgh would be much more likely to increase infections than doing the same in Penicuik or Tranent. Presumably there is data to support that view and the potential for increasing infection is a determining factor when deciding which tier places should be in. This again goes back to my argument about the lack of transparency in the Scottish Government's decision making where they reserve the right to political disgression to override what the data suggests. If they were open and honest and could provide the breakdown of the data to justify their decisions I'd accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 50 minutes ago, redjambo said: I'm not so sure. There are other indicators and factors involved and it would also be a tough call to make. They may announce that it will go into Tier 2 as planned but that they'll review the situation after a week. Usually when a decision has been made or is going to possibly be made, there's some sort of advanced warning leaked that it is going to (possibly) happen, and I personally haven't seen any such leak about Midlothian possibly not going into Tier 2. In addition to that, the daily case rate in Midlothian has dropped over the last few days - there were only 5 infections reported today. In other words, I have no idea what they're going to do. Midlothian met the criteria for Tier 2 on Friday. And they do again today as far as we are aware. Yesterday was the only day they did not meet the published criteria that we know of (projected cases) so it may be that Tier 2 is still appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 hours ago, theshed said: So you’ve got a pub in Midlothian and have been busy getting things ready for the last week to open up to be told the day before sorry you can’t open anymore. 🙄 Exactly it’s cruel from this government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, frankblack said: I can't agree with anything you have posted above. I'm not just talking about hospitality here - I'm referring to any SME, which can range from hospitality to retail. As well as hospitality and retail you have all the other businesses such as wholesalers, printers, office supplies, any business to business sales (outwith construction), takeaways who rely on the office crowd, food manufacturers who rely on hospitality, shopfitters, and many other industries taking huge hits. I found out in 2008 that a hit ot the economy is like a massive house of cards. For instance, some businesses will be hanging in there during a recession only for a major customer to go bust and tip them over the edge. Edited November 22, 2020 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said: Midlothian met the criteria for Tier 2 on Friday. And they do again today as far as we are aware. Yesterday was the only day they did not meet the published criteria that we know of (projected cases) so it may be that Tier 2 is still appropriate. If you have a look at the 7-day stats for the council areas, you will see that the published criteria and the actual levels in each tier are divergent. Check out the following chart, courtesy of Travelling Tabby, with regards to the shaded areas (the published criteria) contrasted against the values in each tier. In almost every case, the councils have been placed, for that indicator anyway, in a higher tier than they should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, GinRummy said: As well as hospitality and retail you have all the other businesses such as wholesalers, printers, office supplies, any business to business sales (outwith construction), takeaways who rely on the office crowd, food manufacturers who rely on hospitality, shopfitters, and many other industries taking huge hits. I found out in 2008 that a hit ot the economy is like a massive house of cards. For instance, some businesses will be hanging in their during a recession only for a major customer to go bust and tip them over the edge. Agreed. I work in financial services, but everyone needs small businesses be it hospitality, hairdressers, retail, etc. I walked into a hairdresser last week and only one member of staff was working due to the loss of trade with people working at home. I can't pretend to know all the overheads businesses have to keep afloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, GinRummy said: It’s blatantly obvious by your posts you don’t know the first thing about running a business. 1 hour ago, GinRummy said: You already have. 80% of staff wages. Since March 30k of cash reserves have been swallowed up, 50k bounce back loan spent and owe hmrc about 45k. What prospects do you think businesses have going into the coming recession with 10’s if not 100s of thousands of pounds worth of debt as a starting point? What do you think is going to happen to all those folk currently getting 80% of their wage after the free money stops? The government is not doing enough to support SME’s who have been forced to close and is doing practically nothing for companies who are still open but are operating at huge losses directly caused by the pandemic. Yes they are supporting employees but that is nowhere near enough. So you have spent £80K in reserves and loan. Has this gone entirely on overheads? I'm surprised you have not received any actual cash from the gov as family member's business has received two five figure grants to assist with property costs, mainly rent i think. If you owe 45k to HMRC i assume that is a historical debt and so you would have a bit of a cheek expecting the taxpayer to fork out for that. If it is not a historical debt then it has been calculated on profits which would be in excess of £200K. In that case you have nothing to complain about either. I also believe that there is a deferment on taxes in this situation for at least a year. I think everybody knows times are tough for many people and businesses but what is the point of subsidising companies who are not viable anyway and isn't it illegal to continue to trade when you know you can't meet the bills? The government's approach has been wrong but it has been brought here in large part because it has pursued what it was told were the interests of business. We have the worst public health response and the worst economic response in Europe as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, frankblack said: This again goes back to my argument about the lack of transparency in the Scottish Government's decision making where they reserve the right to political disgression to override what the data suggests. If they were open and honest and could provide the breakdown of the data to justify their decisions I'd accept it. They were open and honest. That's what they said. I'm not making it up. Why would you want data to prove that Edinburgh has more traffic than anywhere else in Lothian? You don't need data for something as obvious as that. They are our elected leaders and actually they do have the right to make political decisions on our behalf. We live in representative democracy and 74% of us think the SG is doing a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, coconut doug said: They were open and honest. That's what they said. I'm not making it up. It isn't just me on this thread questioning their decision making and transparency. 1 minute ago, coconut doug said: Why would you want data to prove that Edinburgh has more traffic than anywhere else in Lothian? You don't need data for something as obvious as that. What has traffic got to do with anything? Is that a criteria in the track and trace data? The track and trace data should be the ONLY criteria for the tier system. 1 minute ago, coconut doug said: They are our elected leaders and actually they do have the right to make political decisions on our behalf. We live in representative democracy and 74% of us think the SG is doing a good job. We will see how that works out for them next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Exactly it’s cruel from this government No it hasn't happened and if it does it will be a responsible, evidence based decision where public health is prioritised over keeping the pubs open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, coconut doug said: So you have spent £80K in reserves and loan. Has this gone entirely on overheads? I'm surprised you have not received any actual cash from the gov as family member's business has received two five figure grants to assist with property costs, mainly rent i think. If you owe 45k to HMRC i assume that is a historical debt and so you would have a bit of a cheek expecting the taxpayer to fork out for that. If it is not a historical debt then it has been calculated on profits which would be in excess of £200K. In that case you have nothing to complain about either. I also believe that there is a deferment on taxes in this situation for at least a year. I think everybody knows times are tough for many people and businesses but what is the point of subsidising companies who are not viable anyway and isn't it illegal to continue to trade when you know you can't meet the bills? The government's approach has been wrong but it has been brought here in large part because it has pursued what it was told were the interests of business. We have the worst public health response and the worst economic response in Europe as a result. Ha ha. You’re a card mate. I’ll run through a condensed version for you. First of all your family member would have qualified for one of the grants through Small Business Rates Relief, I don’t qualify for that because of the rateable value of the premises I rented (past tense as I moved premises in August to cut costs at the end of my lease). I’ve no idea what the other 5 figure sum was for so I’ve maybe missed something. My overheads (excluding wages) are around 8k a month which includes rent, it support, software and database payments, the upkeep of 11 vehicles, printing costs, stationery, diesel, mileage for part time staff who don’t have company vans, technical equipment and phone/broadband and employee pension costs That’s not a full list just enough to give you an idea. My business is still open because if I closed my customers (all businesses themselves) would just go elsewhere and I’d lose them forever so I have no option but to operate at a significant loss every month. The reason I am operating at a loss is because well over half my customers are closed because of Covid. I’ve operated at a profit since 2009. Your HMRC calculations are bullshit. I don’t owe any corporation tax the money I owe is for VAT from April which I wasn’t able to pay because I needed the money to stay afloat. I’ll ignore all the shit about illegal trading and viability because you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. Not one iota, you’re just an empty vessel spouting nonsense. Edited November 22, 2020 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, frankblack said: It isn't just me on this thread questioning their decision making and transparency. An appeal to the masses doesn't support your point. This reasoning was spelt out in detail as to why the decision was made. Other decisions may not be so obvious or transparent but this one was crystal clear. 2 minutes ago, frankblack said: What has traffic got to do with anything? Is that a criteria in the track and trace data? The track and trace data should be the ONLY criteria for the tier system. Traffic is the key to infection and reducing it has been the means by which we reduce the incidence of the virus. Reducing the traffic (human interaction) is a preventative measure which is far more effective than any track and trace which is a massively compromised method at the best of times. 2 minutes ago, frankblack said: We will see how that works out for them next year. Is there any party offering the approach you suggest or are they all on board with Nicola, Jason and Jeanne? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, coconut doug said: No it hasn't happened and if it does it will be a responsible, evidence based decision where public health is prioritised over keeping the pubs open. In the famous words of Mandy Rice Davies “ well he would say that wouldn’t he “ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 The cost of Covid19 has to be covered in some way. Once we are out of it there needs to be a system where every transaction made in the UK would have a Covid19 charge added. How you work that out I’m not sure but say 2% on every transaction that can’t be offset or claimed back. Everybody buys things therefore everybody pays. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, redjambo said: My pleasure, Carl. Funny you say that though, because I'm thinking of making it slightly more complex as of tomorrow by including an extra column showing how much the figures have changed since 21 November, the first full day of the Tier 4s, so that we can possibly see if the placing of some council areas in that tier makes a difference, for example when compared against those areas which remained in Tier 3. If it makes it too complex though, I'll remove it. You’re doing a great job but that’s actually a really good addition to your figures. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Dagger Is Back said: You’re doing a great job but that’s actually a really good addition to your figures. Cheers Nice. In that case I will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His name is Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: The cost of Covid19 has to be covered in some way. Once we are out of it there needs to be a system where every transaction made in the UK would have a Covid19 charge added. How you work that out I’m not sure but say 2% on every transaction that can’t be offset or claimed back. Everybody buys things therefore everybody pays. Just a thought. I'm still waiting on VAT to return to 17.5% from the banking crash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 35 minutes ago, coconut doug said: An appeal to the masses doesn't support your point. This reasoning was spelt out in detail as to why the decision was made. Other decisions may not be so obvious or transparent but this one was crystal clear. Sorry, but I don't accept that. Their communication has been a complete shambles. 35 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Traffic is the key to infection and reducing it has been the means by which we reduce the incidence of the virus. Reducing the traffic (human interaction) is a preventative measure which is far more effective than any track and trace which is a massively compromised method at the best of times. If I follow you correctly, what you have just said is that Edinburgh and Glasgow have no chance of getting out of Tiers 3 until the virus is eradicated because their populations are too big? That is unacceptable and a massive cop-out if true from the SG who have been flapping all over the place with illogical reasoning. My argument is that they should be using targeted measures against the sectors where track and trace is identifying a problem. However, they won't publish that data, which leads many to conclude it doesn't back up their decisions. 35 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Is there any party offering the approach you suggest or are they all on board with Nicola, Jason and Jeanne? That is irrelevant as no other parties can vote down the SG due to the support of the Greens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, His name is said: I'm still waiting on VAT to return to 17.5% from the banking crash! You can kiss that goodbye for the foreseeable. This needs to an identifiable charge on every receipt. Further the government needs to publish the true cost of Covid19 on the economy at a certain date point and regularly publish the falling total as we pay it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, redjambo said: If you have a look at the 7-day stats for the council areas, you will see that the published criteria and the actual levels in each tier are divergent. Check out the following chart, courtesy of Travelling Tabby, with regards to the shaded areas (the published criteria) contrasted against the values in each tier. In almost every case, the councils have been placed, for that indicator anyway, in a higher tier than they should be. The problematic data is for Midlothian is probably the number of test returning positive not the actual number of cases. That was 5.1% yesterday and is back at 4.6% today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said: The problematic data is for Midlothian is probably the number of test returning positive not the actual number of cases. That was 5.1% yesterday and is back at 4.6% today. 4.6 is a big improvement. Maybe yesterday a blip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 At last, sensible decision making from Boris in getting rid of the ridiculous 10pm curfew. Even in Tier 3, restaurants will be serving alcohol until 10pm. Here, we're stuck with mad rules about 6pm, 8pm with or without food, in or out. Quite simply Sturgeon is using Covid and her "saving lives" mantra to restrict people going out for a meal and a drink or for a few beers, behaving sensibly and enjoying themselves. She is so far removed from how peopke live their lives that she doesn't seem to understand that those who go out and get pi**ed and fall down, will still be doing that somewhere else, still mixing with other households. She will now, quite rightly, be under pressure to follow Boris's lead and start thinking of the economy and the vast majority of the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, frankblack said: That is irrelevant as no other parties can vote down the SG due to the support of the Greens. Like the Offensive behaviour act that was voted down by all the opposition parties? The Greens choose the position they will take on a case by case basis, as they should. Edited November 22, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.