Levein’s time is up...

[Forever Hearts]

26 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

That’s just absolute rubbish. As a matter of interest who would be your choice to replace Levein?

It's not my job to decide who replaces him but are you telling me there is no coach in football (within our budget) who would have us playing better football than we are and building a squad capable of finishing higher than 6th and not losing to the likes of Livi, Motherwell, Hamilton, Dundee and St Mirren all in the one season and in some cases without laying a glove on them?

[stevie1874]

1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

It's not my job to decide who replaces him but are you telling me there is no coach in football (within our budget) who would have us playing better football than we are and building a squad capable of finishing higher than 6th and not losing to the likes of Livi, Motherwell, Hamilton, Dundee and St Mirren all in the one season and in some cases without laying a glove on them?

I’m certainly not denying we’ve had some terrible results this year and on other threads I’ve said it’s probably time for a change, but as I said your comment was rubbish. So if a new manager comes in has a few bad results then what,  Will you back him or want rid ASAP? 

[Boab]

1 hour ago, Deviskan said:

 

Struggling to understand the logic here...you’re saying if we win the cup, irrespective of the dross we have seen over the past three seasons then Craig should get another year?

 

If Celtic pound us in the final, and do everything but score...and we get a last minute winner, that merits another year?

 

I’m desperate for Craig to win the cup, so that he can retire gracefully as manager...with the one thing he must crave (to win something with us). However, in my opinion...no matter what happens in the cup final, we’re in desperate need of fresh ideas and a modern, forward-thinking younger manager (someone that can take us to the next level basically).

 

As a club we’re badly in need of some inspiration on the pitch, some excitement...and seeing Craig in the dugout next season isn’t going to bring that (again, in my opinion).

 If we’re talking logic, I don’t give a shiny shite how we win the Cup.

Pounded for 89 mins and score a last minute winner ?  Hell, yea, i’ll have that.

Look at the 2006 Final, we were gash !

Is our name on the Cup ? Damn right it is !

I get people not happy with the style of play but, c’mon, winning a cup and still saying he has to go ?

There will be some disappointed people on here because if that happens, he’ll see out his last year....imo !

 

[merseyjambo]

2 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

That’s just absolute rubbish. As a matter of interest who would be your choice to replace Levein?

 

Personal choice to that question is Michael Flynn at Newport. Team plays good football and go out with no fear of who teams are. Have given teams like City and Spurs a scare in cup competitions and have taken notable scalps.

 

1 hour ago, Boab said:

 If we’re talking logic, I don’t give a shiny shite how we win the Cup.

Pounded for 89 mins and score a last minute winner ?  Hell, yea, i’ll have that.

Look at the 2006 Final, we were gash !

Is our name on the Cup ? Damn right it is !

I get people not happy with the style of play but, c’mon, winning a cup and still saying he has to go ?

There will be some disappointed people on here because if that happens, he’ll see out his last year....imo !

 

 

The question is based on the last 2 seasons, does he deserve to see out his last year?????,

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Personal choice to that question is Michael Flynn at Newport. Team plays good football and go out with no fear of who teams are. Have given teams like City and Spurs a scare in cup competitions and have taken notable scalps.

 

 

The question is based on the last 2 seasons, does he deserve to see out his last year?????,

 If we win the Cup, i’d say yes.

[stevie1874]

2 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Personal choice to that question is Michael Flynn at Newport. Team plays good football and go out with no fear of who teams are. Have given teams like City and Spurs a scare in cup competitions and have taken notable scalps.

 

 

The question is based on the last 2 seasons, does he deserve to see out his last year?????,

Never watched Newport or heard of Michael Flynn well done though as too many folk on here shouting for change but with no names or reason for said person. ?

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said:

It's not my job to decide who replaces him but are you telling me there is no coach in football (within our budget) who would have us playing better football than we are and building a squad capable of finishing higher than 6th and not losing to the likes of Livi, Motherwell, Hamilton, Dundee and St Mirren all in the one season and in some cases without laying a glove on them?

It's not your job to moan either but you do plenty of it.

You surely have some idea of who would fit the bill but, of course, if you named somebody you could leave yourself open to criticism and you wouldn't want that, would you?

[Bridge of Djoum]

Thread title change, please. 

 

I dunno, something like...''knicker wetters comfort blanket safe place **official thread**.

[redjambo]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It wasn't shite. It was an exaggeration. His point was clear enough for Stevie Wonder to see. 

 

 

When it comes to facts, exaggerating them is the same as getting them wrong.

 

His point was a good one (sort of - look at the table I produced and you will see that we are roughly where we should be, playing budget-wise), but I can't hack folk making up "facts". Despite this being the case for much of human history, with social media it has become even more prevalent nowadays. If we don't counter misinformation then we will be swimming in the a sea of it and unable to make good decisions. All I asked was for him to back up his statement with a source, which of course he couldn't do.

 

Or do you think folk should be just be able to make up "facts" as they go along?

 

It's a minor point relative to the whole question of whether Levein should stay or go, granted, and I can't believe I'm still having to argue this here (unless you've decided to have a prod at the tiger in the cage, which I wouldn't put past you, my dear ri ;)), but I don't regret pulling folk up on falsehoods when I see them. Just the way I rock I suppose.

[jack D and coke]

Watching Celtic Killie just now. Strikes me how much Killie don’t utterly shite themselves at parkhead, playing with confidence and having a couple of decent chances. 

We’d be at least 3 down by now, camped on our own 18 yard box. 

[stevie1874]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Watching Celtic Killie just now. Strikes me how much Killie don’t utterly shite themselves at parkhead, playing with confidence and having a couple of decent chances. 

We’d be at least 3 down by now, camped on our own 18 yard box. 

I’m watching this also, Killie sitting deep but when they get the ball they move it quickly to good effect. They should be 2 up. Steve Clarke must be in high demand come the end of season. 

[siegementality]

3 hours ago, innerjambo said:

Sunday is a big game for us, and him in particular. If he suffers another defeat against that lot, this place will go into meltdown. 

If we are beaten tomorrow then it should be the final nail in his coffin. Let the cup final be his last game, and Budge should take any decision about Levein’s future out of his hands. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by siegementality

[1874robbo]

3 hours ago, Deviskan said:

 

Struggling to understand the logic here...you’re saying if we win the cup, irrespective of the dross we have seen over the past three seasons then Craig should get another year?

 

If Celtic pound us in the final, and do everything but score...and we get a last minute winner, that merits another year?

 

I’m desperate for Craig to win the cup, so that he can retire gracefully as manager...with the one thing he must crave (to win something with us). However, in my opinion...no matter what happens in the cup final, we’re in desperate need of fresh ideas and a modern, forward-thinking younger manager (someone that can take us to the next level basically).

 

As a club we’re badly in need of some inspiration on the pitch, some excitement...and seeing Craig in the dugout next season isn’t going to bring that (again, in my opinion).

We’ve had disagreements in the past on this board but your post there is a top post!!  

[leginten]

19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

When it comes to facts, exaggerating them is the same as getting them wrong.

 

His point was a good one (sort of - look at the table I produced and you will see that we are roughly where we should be, playing budget-wise), but I can't hack folk making up "facts". Despite this being the case for much of human history, with social media it has become even more prevalent nowadays. If we don't counter misinformation then we will be swimming in the a sea of it and unable to make good decisions. All I asked was for him to back up his statement with a source, which of course he couldn't do.

 

Or do you think folk should be just be able to make up "facts" as they go along?

 

It's a minor point relative to the whole question of whether Levein should stay or go, granted, and I can't believe I'm still having to argue this here (unless you've decided to have a prod at the tiger in the cage, which I wouldn't put past you, my dear ri ;)), but I don't regret pulling folk up on falsehoods when I see them. Just the way I rock I suppose.

 

 

I guess you don’t do irony. The table you produced shows us with the fourth-largest budget. We’re sixth in the league. That is not “roughly” where we should be. Nor is it Ann Budge’s target. Talk about distortion of facts and falsehoods.

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, bistokid said:

 

Injuries were awful and I acknowledge that. However how he dealt with them was poor. And his signings failed to cover through that period. Even since our players returned, we have arguably been worse. 

 

Derbies - slight improvement but we'll be finishing below hibs this season and may well finish with a losing record to them.

 

Cups-  the best I can say is he capitalised on incredible draws - in the Scottish especially.  In cups this season we've beaten Motherwell and Livingston at home. Every other team has been lower league.  That's par. Cathro debacle aside, Neilson got some shitty early draws such as Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen. 

 

Judging a manager on a quarter of the league season seems incredibly generous to me. 

6

That's good that you acknowledge that and you can add that it was our best players out at the same time.  Before that we were top of the league!

How should he have dealt with the injuries?

[siegementality]

59 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Never watched Newport or heard of Michael Flynn well done though as too many folk on here shouting for change but with no names or reason for said person. ?

So no-one is allowed to want change until they have identified the replacement and provided reasons in support of that person, good one!!!

[leginten]

1 minute ago, siegementality said:

So no-one is allowed to want change until they have identified the replacement and provided reasons in support of that person, good one!!!

 

Some people still haven’t clicked that while it is the privilege (I would say duty) of fans to voice their opinions when things are going unacceptably badly, it is not their job to come up with a short-list of candidates to replace every underperforming manager. (Although they may well have interesting suggestions.) There are people at the club whose job that is.

 

Pedantry of the most tedious and predictable kind in the service of failed agendas.

[stevie1874]

2 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So no-one is allowed to want change until they have identified the replacement and provided reasons in support of that person, good one!!!

Your making things up, I would never say people are allowed to say this or that. 

[Bull's-eye]

3 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

Some people still haven’t clicked that while it is the privilege (I would say duty) of fans to voice their opinions when things are going unacceptably badly, it is not their job to come up with a short-list of candidates to replace every underperforming manager. (Although they may well have interesting suggestions.) There are people at the club whose job that is.

 

Pedantry of the most tedious and predictable kind in the service of failed agendas.

 

Same as discussing players I take it ?

[siegementality]

1 hour ago, stevie1874 said:

Never watched Newport or heard of Michael Flynn well done though as too many folk on here shouting for change but with no names or reason for said person. ?

Really. I’m making it up am I.

Edited April 27, 2019 by siegementality

[leginten]

1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Same as discussing players I take it ?

 

I’m being slow here. Indulge me.

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

I’m being slow here. Indulge me.

 

Just checking if it's ok to draw up a short list of players ?

[stevie1874]

1 minute ago, siegementality said:

Really. I’m making it up am I.

Yes you are. I made a point that a lot of people shouting for change but no names coming forward to discuss pros & cons.

It is a discussion board and people ARE allowed to discuss what they want.

As a matter of interest who would you want to replace our manager?

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

Some people still haven’t clicked that while it is the privilege (I would say duty) of fans to voice their opinions when things are going unacceptably badly, it is not their job to come up with a short-list of candidates to replace every underperforming manager. (Although they may well have interesting suggestions.) There are people at the club whose job that is.

 

Pedantry of the most tedious and predictable kind in the service of failed agendas.

You haven't clicked that it is the privilege (I would say duty) of other fans to voice their opinions on the same tedious moans that infest every other thread.

When you want a new manager, be careful what you wish for.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask pedants for the name of a preferred successor or even to suggest someone like (insert name). just as the guy did re Michael Flynn

[leginten]

1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Just checking if it's ok to draw up a short list of players ?

 

I’m not sure which part of “Although they may have interesting suggestions” was hard to understand. It’s a discussion forum. Fans discuss things. People at the club employ.

[siegementality]

Just now, stevie1874 said:

Yes you are. I made a point that a lot of people shouting for change but no names coming forward to discuss pros & cons.

It is a discussion board and people ARE allowed to discuss what they want.

As a matter of interest who would you want to replace our manager?

So no-one is allowed to shout for change unless they put a name forward to discuss the pros and cons. So we are back to where we were 20 minutes ago!!!

 

I’ll make it simple for you. I might decide I would like to change my car. I will go to the garage and see what is available within my price range. When I see what is available I will make my mind up as to which is the right one for me. You’ll note the first thing I did was to decide I wanted a change of car. 

 

I have decided I would like Hearts to have a change of management. When I see who is available within the clubs price range I would make my mind up who I would want. 

 

Utimately it doesnt really matter what I want in relation to Hearts as I have no control. Doesn’t stop me wanting change though.

 

 

[siegementality]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You haven't clicked that it is the privilege (I would say duty) of other fans to voice their opinions on the same tedious moans that infest every other thread.

When you want a new manager, be careful what you wish for.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask pedants for the name of a preferred successor or even to suggest someone like (insert name). just as the guy did re Michael Flynn

Careful what you wish for??!!  Do you not trust AB to employ the right person?

[Nookie Bear]

I wonder if there is another forum for another club where someone is putting Leveins name forward as a possible replacement for whoever they have right now? ?

[leginten]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You haven't clicked that it is the privilege (I would say duty) of other fans to voice their opinions on the same tedious moans that infest every other thread.

When you want a new manager, be careful what you wish for.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask pedants for the name of a preferred successor or even to suggest someone like (insert name). just as the guy did re Michael Flynn

 

I don’t think you’ve thought this through. While people who go along to see Hearts will have more than a good impression of how the current regime is performing, they will not necessarily have a good impression of the strengths of other candidates, of whom there will always be a considerable number given the relative status of Hearts. People may wish to make a suggestion, but there’s absolutely no reason why they should. Again, although it shouldn’t need pointing out, it’s not their job.

 

[siegementality]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I wonder if there is another forum for another club where someone is putting Leveins name forward as a possible replacement for whoever they have right now? ?

You know the answer to that.

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, siegementality said:

You know the answer to that.

 

Perhaps a team like Dundee Utd, if they fail to come up?

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Perhaps a team like Dundee Utd, if they fail to come up?

Was just about to reply to you that the best Levein can hope for after Hearts is Dundee United.

[stevie1874]

2 minutes ago, siegementality said:

So no-one is allowed to shout for change unless they put a name forward to discuss the pros and cons. So we are back to where we were 20 minutes ago!!!

 

I’ll make it simple for you. I might decide I would like to change my car. I will go to the garage and see what is available within my price range. When I see what is available I will make my mind up as to which is the right one for me. You’ll note the first thing I did was to decide I wanted a change of car. 

 

I have decided I would like Hearts to have a change of management. When I see who is available within the clubs price range I would make my mind up who I would want. 

 

Utimately it doesnt really matter what I want in relation to Hearts as I have no control. Doesn’t stop me wanting change though.

 

 

Firstly how many times do I have to point out you or anyone (ARE ALLOWED) to discuss what they want. 

Secondly using your example and I’ll make this very simple for you, 

If you were changing your car surely you would do some research to make sure that the new car is an upgrade on the old one, and not just throwing money away on something that you want to change again in a year.

I know ultimately the club will pick a new manager when the time comes, but at the moment Hearts don’t seem to be in the market for one. 

I do think it is time for a change of direction and thought people shouting for change would have a preference and a discussion board would be the perfect place to discuss pros & cons. 

[siegementality]

4 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Firstly how many times do I have to point out you or anyone (ARE ALLOWED) to discuss what they want. 

Secondly using your example and I’ll make this very simple for you, 

If you were changing your car surely you would do some research to make sure that the new car is an upgrade on the old one, and not just throwing money away on something that you want to change again in a year.

I know ultimately the club will pick a new manager when the time comes, but at the moment Hearts don’t seem to be in the market for one. 

I do think it is time for a change of direction and thought people shouting for change would have a preference and a discussion board would be the perfect place to discuss pros & cons. 

Here’s a novel idea. Why don’t you tell us all the pros and cons for keeping Levein. Then we can decide what we need to upgrade on.

Edited April 27, 2019 by siegementality

[stevie1874]

3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Here’s a novel idea. Why don’t you tell us all the pros and cons for keeping Levein. Then we can decide what we need to upgrade on.

I only post my own opinion and it is just that. Who is the (We) your representing?

[JamboAl]

34 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Careful what you wish for??!!  Do you not trust AB to employ the right person?

I do.

The right person (on paper)doesn't always work out.  Ask the Man U directors, if you don't believe me.

[JamboAl]

32 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

I don’t think you’ve thought this through. While people who go along to see Hearts will have more than a good impression of how the current regime is performing, they will not necessarily have a good impression of the strengths of other candidates, of whom there will always be a considerable number given the relative status of Hearts. People may wish to make a suggestion, but there’s absolutely no reason why they should. Again, although it shouldn’t need pointing out, it’s not their job.

 

It's not their job to idly moan either but they do it.

If they don't have a good impression of the other candidates they could well finish up with someone worse.

There are no guarantees with new managers or new players for that matter.

[siegementality]

17 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

I only post my own opinion and it is just that. Who is the (We) your representing?

Ok, you really need to keep up, not with me, just with yourself would be nice.

 

You stated that “.I made a point that a lot of people shouting for change but no names coming forward to discuss pros & cons.”

 

So the (we) is “the lot of people” you referred to that are shouting for change. I am sure all of them would like to hear your pros and cons for no change.

 

So, if that’s all too complicated, and without the pedantics, tell ME the pros and cons of keeping Levein.

[siegementality]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I do.

The right person (on paper)doesn't always work out.  Ask the Man U directors, if you don't believe me.

Or ask Budge about the manger she has now? He is the one that missed the target (4th) set be her. If she is prepared to accepted missed targets - without explanation - then maybe questions need asked of her as well.

[Boab]

Just now, siegementality said:

Ok, you really need to keep up, not with me, just with yourself would be nice.

 

You stated that “.I made a point that a lot of people shouting for change but no names coming forward to discuss pros & cons.”

 

So the (we) is “the lot of people” you referred to that are shouting for change. I am sure all of them would like to hear your pros and cons for no change.

 

So, if that’s all too complicated, and without the pedantics, tell ME the pros and cons of keeping Levein.

 Surely this has to wait until after the Final ?

If we won, he’d be only the fourth manager in 63 years to win the thing.

A pretty big pro !

Of course, this will open up the criticism of  “ an incredibly easy route “ etc !

Something I don’t remember when JJ was at the helm in 1998.

I’ll concede there was a really good team back then but the stats don’t lie !

[leginten]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

It's not their job to idly moan either but they do it.

If they don't have a good impression of the other candidates they could well finish up with someone worse.

There are no guarantees with new managers or new players for that matter.

 

They wouldn’t be employing the new manager. They’d be relying on the expertise of those at the club to do so.

 

As for “idly moaning”...

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Same as discussing players I take it ?

Like Djoum to Aberdeen? Is discussing that possibility allowed?

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

 

 

I guess you don’t do irony. The table you produced shows us with the fourth-largest budget. We’re sixth in the league. That is not “roughly” where we should be. Nor is it Ann Budge’s target. Talk about distortion of facts and falsehoods.

 

Killie are the over-performers. By budget, Celtic should be first, Rangers second, Aberdeen third, Hearts and Hibs very close for fourth and fifth with an off-chance of third. Killie and Dundee should be vying for the final top-six place, and Livingston and St Mirren competing to avoid relegation.

 

And the thing is, these aren't about "facts and falsehoods" - they're interpretations of the data (and only playing budget data at that). And if you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion then you're a lost cause I'm afraid.

[stevie1874]

7 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Ok, you really need to keep up, not with me, just with yourself would be nice.

 

You stated that “.I made a point that a lot of people shouting for change but no names coming forward to discuss pros & cons.”

 

So the (we) is “the lot of people” you referred to that are shouting for change. I am sure all of them would like to hear your pros and cons for no change.

 

So, if that’s all too complicated, and without the pedantics, tell ME the pros and cons of keeping Levein.

Surely the pros & cons of keeping Levein have been flogged to death and someone keeping up with things wouldn’t need me to explain. I was only really interested and asking for pros & cons of successors, which a poster put forward a name of someone I’d never really heard of but might be worthy of consideration when the time comes.

 

Lets just agree to disagree about some things and move on as I sense your getting a little hot under the collar. 

No hard feelings ?

[Notts1874]

7 minutes ago, sadj said:

Like Djoum to Aberdeen? Is discussing that possibility allowed?

Interesting. You heard that as well?

[siegementality]

1 minute ago, stevie1874 said:

Surely the pros & cons of keeping Levein have been flogged to death and someone keeping up with things wouldn’t need me to explain. I was only really interested and asking for pros & cons of successors, which a poster put forward a name of someone I’d never really heard of but might be worthy of consideration when the time comes.

 

Lets just agree to disagree about some things and move on as I sense your getting a little hot under the collar. 

No hard feelings ?

I’m not hot under the collar mate. Seems you are taking the easy route out. You said you only post your opinion so I’m not interested in what other have said at this point. You have raised the point of pros and cons so let me hear yours.

[sadj]

Just now, Notts1874 said:

Interesting. You heard that as well?

Have indeed sir. I take i’m not the only one then. ?

[Bull's-eye]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Killie are the over-performers. By budget, Celtic should be first, Rangers second, Aberdeen third, Hearts and Hibs very close for fourth and fifth with an off-chance of third. Killie and Dundee should be vying for the final top-six place, and Livingston and St Mirren competing to avoid relegation.

 

And the thing is, these aren't about "facts and falsehoods" - they're interpretations of the data (and only playing budget data at that). And if you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion then you're a lost cause I'm afraid.

 

Killies pitch is the anomoly.

[Calebs Grandad]

September 2022

Leveins Time Is Up Thread

5,456 pages 

263,546 replies

3,854,678 views

 

And The Boss is still The Boss. 

[siegementality]

12 minutes ago, Boab said:

 Surely this has to wait until after the Final ?

If we won, he’d be only the fourth manager in 63 years to win the thing.

A pretty big pro !

Of course, this will open up the criticism of  “ an incredibly easy route “ etc !

Something I don’t remember when JJ was at the helm in 1998.

I’ll concede there was a really good team back then but the stats don’t lie !

It would certainly suit some to leave it until then. Regretfully I really do t think it will make much difference. It will be a matter of by how many Celtic will win. We simply aren’t good enough to beat them, especially given they are going for the treble treble.