End of season Craig Levein poll

[JamboGraham]

My offline experience is that the fellow Jambos that I know all want change...

 

They don’t seem fussed if that change comes from Craig Levein refinding the form from the start of last season, or a new man taking us in a different direction...

[JamboGraham]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

My point was that a poll with 5% or less of the electorate participating is a complete waste of time.

 

Useful as a general gauge of opinion though, an opinion poll if you will...

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

STs are all that count. If by the start of the season they're anywhere near last year's (after 2 6ths etc etc) then that's a strong indicator that in general most fans think we're heading in the right direction. Of course some may not like the manager or football but it still means they have faith we'll turn things around. A large drop-off would obviously get Budge thinking. 

Disagree. I would renew regardless of who is manager, what league we are playing in etc. Been doing it for about 45 years with only a three year break after Forfar and two kids.  

[Guest]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Disagree. I would renew regardless of who is manager, what league we are playing in etc. Been doing it for about 45 years with only a three year break after Forfar and two kids.  

 

I think most do. Point is, Budge won't sack Levein on the basis of internet polls.

[soonbe110]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think most do. Point is, Budge won't sack Levein on the basis of internet polls.

No sensible person would. 

[redjambo]

56 minutes ago, jake said:

In my offline experience there is no way the Hearts support is split.

I'm afraid they are all wanting change.

 

That's also been the overwhelming chat the last few games at home when going for a half time smoke.

 

Have you considered the possibility that smokers like to complain and are therefore predisposed to be anti-Levein?

 

Perhaps you should hang about the food court for a more balanced view.

[Toggie88]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Probably. My point was that a poll with 5% or less of the electorate participating is a complete waste of time. Interesting on the other poll that 80% agree we should have a DoF yet many on here voice very strong views against. Who knows what we know on here! 

 

A poll of 5% is better than anything you get from official polling companies. A UK wide poll, with an electorate of 46 million-ish, is typically 1000 people. Albeit these are weighted to draw lend greater weighting to those more likely to vote, different demographic respondents etc but I wouldn't discount this poll as not representative on Hearts fans. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Toggie88

[redjambo]

There are only 5 votes difference in the poll . This is getting exciting. I only hope that right at the end of the poll, Yes is winning by one vote, and both Ann and Craig, sitting in the Boardroom with their feet on the table sipping from large glasses of red wine, open up a laptop, sign up to JKB and both vote No to swing the vote back to Craig.

 

[jake]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Have you considered the possibility that smokers like to complain and are therefore predisposed to be anti-Levein?

 

Perhaps you should hang about the food court for a more balanced view.

? 

No I hadn't considered that.

 

I do like a moan though

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Toggie88 said:

 

A poll of 5% is better than anything you get from official polling companies. A UK wide poll, with an electorate of 46 million-ish, is typically 1000 people. Albeit these are weighted to draw lend greater weighting to those more likely to vote, different demographic respondents etc but I wouldn't discount this poll as not representative on Hearts fans. 

I agree re polling companies   Have you ever been asked to participate in one of these opinion polls that appear in the media every week or so it seems? I certainly haven’t. 

Re poll on here I don’t think 5% turnout is a valid poll. I think it reflects those that like to express their views on this forum. No idea who is on here, Hibs fans etc. Also think it’s the norm for people who want change to vote for it. Those who want status quo don’t bother to same extent. After all nothing is going to happen as a result of jkb polls is it? 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Nonsense about Hibs interlopers. His record over 30 years against Hibs explains why they hate him. They want him gone.

 

All of them or some of them??

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Sorry, but you didn’t mention any names. That was the posters point I think. Too easy to say Levein out without any thought as to whom we would likely get to replace him. 

 

If Daly, McPhee and co aren't deemed ready then Robbo or Robbie Neilson for 3 years for me, then Michael O'Neill when he's probably done with NI around 2023/24. I'm sure there are more exciting options but none spring to mind who are likely to be available and in our budget. For some reason M ONeill seems to be a Hearts manager in waiting for me and would be worth saving up for going by his record so far.

 

One benefit for me of Levein seeing our his contract is that Budge can make it known next season that we're hiring a manager for 2020/21. Daly, McPhee and co can try to put their case forward during the season and other interested parties can check us out. I really like that as an alternative to having to make a quick decision this summer.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Guest

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

If Daly, McPhee and co aren't deemed ready then Robbo or Robbie Neilson for 3 years for me, then Michael O'Neill when he's probably done with NI around 2023/24. I'm sure there are more exciting options but none spring to mind who are likely to be available and in our budget. For some reason M ONeill seems to be a Hearts manager in waiting for me and would be worth saving up for going by his record so far.

 

One benefit for me of Levein seeing our his contract is that Budge can make it known next season that we're hiring a manager for 2020/21. Daly, McPhee and co can try to put their case forward during the season and other interested parties can check us out. I really like that as an alternative to having to make a quick decision this summer.

Fair enough. At least you have nailed your colours to the mast. 

[Toggie88]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I agree re polling companies   Have you ever been asked to participate in one of these opinion polls that appear in the media every week or so it seems? I certainly haven’t. 

Re poll on here I don’t think 5% turnout is a valid poll. I think it reflects those that like to express their views on this forum. No idea who is on here, Hibs fans etc. Also think it’s the norm for people who want change to vote for it. Those who want status quo don’t bother to same extent. After all nothing is going to happen as a result of jkb polls is it? 

 

You can actually register to take part. Yougov pay you a small amount for taking part in each, when you reach £50 they send you a cheque. 

 

I think it takes months of filling out surveys though. Only know one guy to have ever got a cheque and I think he'd been at it for potentially years. 

[Alex Kintner]

47 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Not sure. Did anyone actually say that? 

I said that circa 750 have voted. There’s roughly 15000 Hearts fans at home games. That’s 5% exactly. There are a lot more Hears fans that don’t go to every home game so that makes the number that have participated in this poll less than 5% of total Hearts fans making the outcome meaningless. If we have indyref 2 and less than 5% vote should we take any notice of the result of the poll? 

 

Exit polls are almost always bang on the money at elections and they sample much less than 5% of the total vote. As soon as the Brexit exit poll was announced in 2016, it was clear what had happened.

 

Regardless of what anyone argues either way, 750 people is a more than big enough sample size when you’re only talking about 14,000 season ticket holders

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

All of them or some of them??

50% of them and im 85% sure

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

You can actually register to take part. Yougov pay you a small amount for taking part in each, when you reach £50 they send you a cheque. 

 

I think it takes months of filling out surveys though. Only know one guy to have ever got a cheque and I think he'd been at it for potentially years. 

Didn’t know that. Makes them even more worthless in my opinion 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, RudiHMFC said:

Levein will hoover up the over 60's vote no problem.

 

Meanwhile back in the real world, hearts fans don't want another season of Levein. They just don't.

 

Are you saying fans over 60 are all happy with the state of the team and are happy for Levein to stay???  

Well here is one of that group who disprove that ridiculous theory - and there are many more I know!

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Exit polls are almost always bang on the money at elections and they sample much less than 5% of the total vote. As soon as the Brexit exit poll was announced in 2016, it was clear what had happened.

 

Regardless of what anyone argues either way, 750 people is a more than big enough sample size when you’re only talking about 14,000 season ticket holders

It’s not only season ticket holders on here, I think. 

Why do we have general elections for the whole population over 16/18? We should just have a sample at 5% and take their word for it? Is that what you are saying. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Are you saying fans over 60 are all happy with the state of the team and are happy for Levein to stay???  

Well here is one of that group who disprove that ridiculous theory - and there are many more I know!

 

Older chap that sits behind me certainly disproves it as well!

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

From this poll he splits the support down the middle. For me his record of never winning anything in his entire career as player or manager suggests we could do better. 

 

Slightly unfair given how close he's been a few times, and his injuries (although it seems injuries mean nothing to some people and are just an excuse).

 

But he has laid the groundwork for other people to go on and win things, which is what I think Budge has primarily tasked him with at this time in our history.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Guest

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

It’s not only season ticket holders on here, I think. 

Why do we have general elections for the whole population over 16/18? We should just have a sample at 5% and take their word for it? Is that what you are saying. 

 

It would be ridiculous to do so but if you did the result would be the same. Think I’m right in saying exit polls have never got a result wrong.

[Thomaso]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Slightly unfair given how close he's been a few times, and his injuries (although it seems injuries mean nothing to some people and are just an excuse).

 

But he has laid the groundwork for other people to go on and win things, which is what I think Budge has primarily tasked him with at this time in our history.

 

After 5 years hopefully the groundwork is complete and we can bring in a manager who has a winning mentality.

[Bazzas right boot]

We need  a poll on the validity of polls. 

 

 

 

[sandylejambo]

I'm back to being really pissed off with Levein, thinking about the crap I've paid to watch this last season, just my luck we'll start badly and she will move him upstairs and appoint McPhee and Daily. I wonder if they would give me my money back.

[1971fozzy]

11 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

We need  a poll on the validity of polls. 

 

 

 

 

Indeed we do

[feedthefox]

Just can't see beyond having to watch more of the same. CL is not about to reinvent himself anytime soon, we are being left behind in a coaching sense and I just wonder what a dynamic and contemporary coach could achieve with this set of players. I take no pleasure in wanting CL away as manager but really feel now is the time, Celtic are poor, Rangers nothing special;, Aberdeen slightly above average so there hasn't been a better opportunity than now to win things.

[sadj]

27 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

I'm back to being really pissed off with Levein, thinking about the crap I've paid to watch this last season, just my luck we'll start badly and she will move him upstairs and appoint McPhee and Daily. I wonder if they would give me my money back.

Why not do a search on here for Daly and read what or how people who are ITK or clued up react when people see this....

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 hours ago, sadj said:

So my understanding is if it was 90% out in the poll then it would be representative of the support so it would be good its 50/50 so its not representative of the support only the arseholes and therefore not good and dismissed! But...The fan in the street everywhere wants rid even though the fan in the street is also represented by JKB and that says 50/50 so really one group of fans wants him out the other doesn’t so really the poll told us nothing except 100% of people can’t agree

How representative it will be will depend on the number of people voting and the bias from people being on Kickback versus the whole support and the willingness of people to engage with it.

 

However, all things being equal it should be representative and it is interesting how divided the support is.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

Why not do a search on here for Daly and read what or how people who are ITK or clued up react when people see this....

I like how you class yourself as "clued up"!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

It would be ridiculous to do so but if you did the result would be the same. Think I’m right in saying exit polls have never got a result wrong.

Er, they just did here in Oz!

[sadj]

19 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How representative it will be will depend on the number of people voting and the bias from people being on Kickback versus the whole support and the willingness of people to engage with it.

 

However, all things being equal it should be representative and it is interesting how divided the support is.

Yeah I get that it was a comment on the lunacy of the debate on the poll. I think it is representative personally. There seems to be as many negative comments on all social media as there is positive or understanding and therefore supportive for now. Allowing of course for the fact people often say less when its positive or understanding it would  suggest the result may actually be reversed slightly.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I like how you class yourself as "clued up"!

Wasn’t referring to myself. What i’m told is irrelevant to anything. I was using it to cover those who are not fully itk but do pass the odd snippet

Edited May 31, 2019 by sadj

[Jammy T]

Results need to get better.

 

We need to be able to deal with injuries and Levein admitted he needed to come up for a solution with the injuries we had this season and he didn’t.

 

But.

 

There is a foundation of a good team now signed up.

 

Revisionists can get to **** but at the start of the season when fresh from injury we played some fantastic football NOT hoofball.

 

Levein now needs to add extra quality to the spine - flair, game changers etc. He has said as much - he knows it, we know it.

 

Fan(ny) pressure helped stop the work in progress of Neilson. It would now be disastrous if it didn’t give Levein one further season to properly finalise his preferred squad and break what he is building.

 

The worst thing that happened to this club since administration was Robbie Neilson - because he was so successful initially that he turned a chunk of the Hearts support into self-entitled pricks.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Jammy T

[Spellczech]

At the end of the day, Steve Clarke was Killie's "George Burley" - a manager the quality of whom they would not normally expect to get. 

 

All of Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen had much bigger playing budgets again so we cannot complain about being behind them, though there are signs of Aberdeen beginning to toil as the OF steadily pinch their better players same as they used to do to us when we were around 3rd.

 

I'm disappointed about being behind Hibs the last 2 seasons but they simply have not had the same injury problems we've had.

 

These things happen in football and hopefully next season is better

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

It would be ridiculous to do so but if you did the result would be the same. Think I’m right in saying exit polls have never got a result wrong.

Think you are completely wrong. They just did in Oz and in the uk they have only been accurate last two or three elections. 

[ri Alban]

I voted no, but if the form continues, we'll have to act quickly.

[iantjambo]

Yes, our form since Oct/Nov has been horrible. 

We may have put in a gutsy performance in the final and were unfortunate to lose but the end result was the same, we lost.

 

Any other manager in the league would've been emptied following such a run of form.

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Think you are completely wrong. They just did in Oz and in the uk they have only been accurate last two or three elections. 

 

Are you sure you’re not mixing up exit polls and the daily/monthly polls that happen pre-election?

 

The very fact it is illegal to reveal the results of exit polls until polling has closed says it all.

??

Edited May 31, 2019 by To Be Frank

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, Jammy T said:

Results need to get better.

 

We need to be able to deal with injuries and Levein admitted he needed to come up for a solution with the injuries we had this season and he didn’t.

 

But.

 

There is a foundation of a good team now signed up.

 

Revisionists can get to **** but at the start of the season when fresh from injury we played some fantastic football NOT hoofball.

 

Levein now needs to add extra quality to the spine - flair, game changers etc. He has said as much - he knows it, we know it.

 

Fan(ny) pressure helped stop the work in progress of Neilson. It would now be disastrous if it didn’t give Levein one further season to properly finalise his preferred squad and break what he is building.

 

The worst thing that happened to this club since administration was Robbie Neilson - because he was so successful initially that he turned a chunk of the Hearts support into self-entitled pricks.

 

 

 

Some became very “old firm”

[jambo007]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I voted no, but if the form continues, we'll have to act quickly.

indeed we do .....

[Cut The Crap]

Given that Dr Budge sees no need for change, I looking for reasons to believe.

 

A genuine question here for those who want to retain the current coaching staff and setup.

 

What do you see that leads you to think next season will be better than the last two we've suffered, in terms of the quality football on offer and the results achieved?

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

43 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Some became very “old firm”

 

We are entitled to see the club moving forward on the pitch. Progress. 

 

Some don’t see that happening, hence the call for a new Head Coach. 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Are you sure you’re not mixing up exit polls and the daily/monthly polls that happen pre-election?

 

The very fact it is illegal to reveal the results of exit polls until polling has closed says it all.

??

The Channel 9 exit poll here in Oz a couple of weeks had the Labor Opposition winning 82 seats and a majority of 6. They lost handsomely.

[mitch41]

On 29/05/2019 at 19:58, colinmaroon said:

 

Yea!  You could see Hickey scared to go forward in the games he's played.

 

Ruined already!

 

 

Give it time we’ve had lots of young lads coming into the first team and what happens they lose form and confidence and disappear. I want a manager that can put a team together that blends youthful talent and experienced professionals but i’m afraid Levein and his pals are not the right people. 

[mitch41]

Looking at the poll there’s no doubt that some fans have had their heads turned by the Cup Final where we were glorious losers. Many have forgotten the dire shambles of a team that Levein’s management gave us for the last 6 months never mind the rubbish we had to put up with the previous season.

Now we have Levein giving an interview and he’s telling the world and their dogs that he want to play 4 4 3 my god he sounds like a child who plays Football Manager on his computer.  Well it looks like we’re stuck with Levein and Ann Budge has made him unsackable which is to be expected as she take her football advice from her Craig the man she owes so much to.

[Beast Boy]

23 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

Given that Dr Budge sees no need for change, I looking for reasons to believe.

 

A genuine question here for those who want to retain the current coaching staff and setup.

 

What do you see that leads you to think next season will be better than the last two we've suffered, in terms of the quality football on offer and the results achieved?

 

 

 

Good seasons follow bad, follow indifferent, follow good. Historically there is little in one season that helps you predict the performance of the next. The poor league place finish I suppose would be the bad sign, but the cup runs and 11 games in a row show the potential for consistency too. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, mitch41 said:

Looking at the poll there’s no doubt that some fans have had their heads turned by the Cup Final where we were glorious losers. Many have forgotten the dire shambles of a team that Levein’s management gave us for the last 6 months never mind the rubbish we had to put up with the previous season.

Now we have Levein giving an interview and he’s telling the world and their dogs that he want to play 4 4 3 my god he sounds like a child who plays Football Manager on his computer.  Well it looks like we’re stuck with Levein and Ann Budge has made him unsackable which is to be expected as she take her football advice from her Craig the man she owes so much to.

 

Missed that interview. Where is it?

 

I assume you mean 4-3-3 or else we are in big trouble. Even Collum can count to 12. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, mitch41 said:

Looking at the poll there’s no doubt that some fans have had their heads turned by the Cup Final where we were glorious losers.

 

Assumption to explain poll results that are at odds with what you thought they would be.

[doctor jambo]

24 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

We are entitled to see the club moving forward on the pitch. Progress. 

 

Some don’t see that happening, hence the call for a new Head Coach. 

 

 

True, the product has often been chronic.

There has also been an increase in lack of self awareness of our size as a club, and many expectations are a bit artificial.

The wage and budget disparity in the FA cup final was 2.5:1

ours was 10:1 I think.

We should function more on hope than expectation.

Why we should think that league 1 recruits from England + cast offs from abroad + really low cost acquisitions from Scotland could compete against ra Celtic is beyond me.

In a one off we can fluke it, but that's about it.

yes we should be beating St Mirren Livi and Dundee more regularly.

But on a small budget when your 1st choices are injured your back ups are another step down in an already meagre pool.

 

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Looking at the poll there’s no doubt that some fans have had their heads turned by the Cup Final where we were glorious losers. Many have forgotten the dire shambles of a team that Levein’s management gave us for the last 6 months never mind the rubbish we had to put up with the previous season.

Now we have Levein giving an interview and he’s telling the world and their dogs that he want to play 4 4 3 my god he sounds like a child who plays Football Manager on his computer.  Well it looks like we’re stuck with Levein and Ann Budge has made him unsackable which is to be expected as she take her football advice from her Craig the man she owes so much to.

 

Mitch not getting into most of it as done to death but many times this season he has stated he doesn’t want to play 3 at the back but we have been forced to. 4 at the back is his preferred formation and a fluid 4-3-3/4-5-1 when needed is what he wants to play. A criticism could be he has tried to play that without having competent widemen to play it but not that he wants to play it. 

 

28 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

Given that Dr Budge sees no need for change, I looking for reasons to believe.

 

A genuine question here for those who want to retain the current coaching staff and setup.

 

What do you see that leads you to think next season will be better than the last two we've suffered, in terms of the quality football on offer and the results achieved?

 

 

 

I want to see two emptied from the coaching staff as I believe they are a big part of the problem.