End of season Craig Levein poll

[Jamhammer]

3 minutes ago, JamboFever said:

I voted no to replacing the manager now, and here's why:

 

Levein is not a 'bad' manager, but is clearly not as flexible and tactically agile as we would like.  What disappointed me most about this season was that when injuries decimated both the first team squad and any momentum we were building in the autumn we went into a necessarily defensive shell from which we never emerged once the personnel situation improved.  A good bit of the responsibility for that has to lie with the coaching team, who should have had a critical mission to rediscover our early season attacking intent and fluency of passing and with it the results that took us to the top of the league.

 

Personally I don't think that failure is sufficient to warrant kicking Craig back upstairs just yet.  Back to back 6th place finishes don't sit well with any of us, but it's worth remembering that there were very different reasons for each.  The first was a desperate rearguard action to minimise and partially recover from the horrible impact of the Cathro era in personnel and performance terms which was taking us to the wrong end of the bottom six.  This season injuries ripped the arse out of it mid-season and we simply didn't manage to recover to anything like our potential performance levels.

 

Next season is the last chance saloon, I think.  Some judicious recruitment in key areas, probably 4 or 5 players, maximising the impact of the really promising youth we have (Cochrane, Hickey, Smith and Irving in particular) and maintaining consistently high levels of performance across the majority of the season should be an acceptable minimum baseline.  From that could (and maybe should) follow a challenge for 3rd in the league and more semis / finals.  Anne Budge has a key role here.  She needs to set the bar high and hold Craig to account if he can't take the team to that level, not in 3 or 4 or 5 years, but next year.  No excuses.

 

 

This is the key thing for me. There has to be accountability. Even with the injuries we should have performed better and we simply didn't. We had injuries on Saturday but played with intensity and belief throughout. This needs to be the rule rather than the exception and the manager has to get more out of the players at his disposal

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

CL managed to squeeze a performance out of a team. Yahoo. It was a Cup final, man. Squeezing, cajoling etc. really shouldn't be necessary. 

 

Our performance levels, individually and collectively, have been abysmal. The team looks clueless from kick off in most games. No plan, no aim, no direction. There's been the odd 20 minutes, even an entire half (yippee), when we've played well. But it's rarely risen above "playing well" and certainly doesn't last.

 

I fear next season is going to be the same. We'll probably scrape top six, rarely look like an actual football team and it's extremely unlikely we'll strike gold again in Cup draws.

 

Heart of Midlothian are sleepwalking into a future of mediocrity and apathy but still some believe that it's all going to be okay. That somehow Craig Levein's approach to football is going to miraculously click into place and be successful and pleasant to watch?

 

Sadly, I'm going to get the Hearts that the "CL should stay" punters deserve. 

 

Fecking depressing.

Top post!! Well put 

[Nookie Bear]

Can we get a few more Levein Out votes, please?

 

I really want our Head of Communications to get bevvied up and start flinging shite around again

[Cut The Crap]

My all-time favourite Hearts player, but the football he is serving up now is beyond awful and I've sadly lost confidence in his ability to fix it.

[1874robbo]

21 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Although I’ve voted no if I owned the club he would have been sacked for allowing hibs to finish above us. 

He’d have been sacked for that embarrassment at Livingston!!!

[Absolute Scenes]

43 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

I agree with some of your points but i have to add the fact hibs have finished above us two seasons in a row and that really gets at me knowing we have a bigger budget than them and Kilmarnock etc personally speaking it is not good enough. 

 

Nah I completely agree about Hibs and Killie finishing above us twice - not good enough at all, and that's something that definitely needs addressed this window. We have a good solid spine so we need to recruit very wisely this one

[Inch Hearts]

29 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Aye needs new ideas not just the same ideas

 

Can anyone actually see that happening though? Deep down nobody does and deep down it’s probably settling with the devil we know.  

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

I hope you're right. I'd love Craig Levein to prove me and other doubters wrong. I'm not a hater and I've never been disrespectful toward him on this site or in real life but I just don't believe he is the way forward for our club. He's spent the last 2/3 proving it, for me anyway, yet still we plough on regardless.

 

He’s not. He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business. Folk need to have a bit of patience. The  academy is beginning to produce and the best players have been retained. Probably the biggest downfall of the 2018/19 season was not retaining some of the key figures from 2017/18. I can’t help thinking that Lafferty, McLaughlin and Milinkovic have all suffered as much as Hearts by deciding to move. No party has won anything and McLaughlin hasn’t managed to get into the Championship, which was presumably one of the main attractions of moving to Sunderland. Those three on Saturday would have been the difference between glory and a glorious failure.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[Inch Hearts]

9 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Nah I completely agree about Hibs and Killie finishing above us twice - not good enough at all, and that's something that definitely needs addressed this window. We have a good solid spine so we need to recruit very wisely this one

 

The two years before Hibs finishing above us they won the cup and then smashed us in the Scottish under Cathro. That adds to the apathy completely (aeroplane flying over etc) Saturday turned the tide a little definitely and overall I would say we had the better season although they improved when they erm changed the manager. 

[Inch Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He’s not. He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business. Folk need to have a bit of patience. The  academy is beginning to produce and the best players have been retained. Probably the biggest downfall of the 2018/19 season was not retaining some of the key figures from 2017/18. I can’t help thinking that Lafferty, McLaughlin and Milinkovic have all suffered as much as Hearts by deciding to move. No party has won anything and McLaughlin hasn’t managed to get into the Championship, which was presumably one of the main attractions of moving to Sunderland. Those three on Saturday would have been the difference between glory and a glorious failure.

 

Who did we sign in the summer he took over that we wouldn’t have if he was the manager? Berra? Lafferty? Smith? Big Jon? Milinkovic was a Levein signing too. 

 

Theres been too too much patience, from managers to new managers to give time and windows to injuries it’s always patience.  We need a here and now with no excuse.  Everyone talking about how Levein had Lennon on Saturday -  if it was the other way about and we got skelped it would have been “oh it’s someone else’s team give him the summer” 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Inch Hearts

[Absolute Scenes]

7 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

The two years before Hibs finishing above us they won the cup and then smashed us in the Scottish under Cathro. That adds to the apathy completely (aeroplane flying over etc) Saturday turned the tide a little definitely and overall I would say we had the better season although they improved when they erm changed the manager. 

 

that wasn't Levein in charge so your point is completely irrelevant regarding those results

Also if you class 3-1 as "smashed" you're easily pleased

[MTS1874]

I’ve voted yes because I think that Levein has taken us as far as he can.

[graygo]

49 minutes ago, Coco said:

5 years in I hope the Board are looking at the overall football operations and will see it is time for change.

 

First team poor performance for 2 seasons should mean the manager and all coaches go.  On the DoF side - Supposed strategies of boot room succession and player continuity ditched.  Poor net transfer income and ridiculous player turnover.  No young players sold or established in the first team after 5 years (the best 2 young players this season developed at Rangers and Celtic - of those Cochrane hardly played and Hickey had 2 games).  Diminishing crowds due to the rubbish on the pitch.  Questionable man management of fringe players.

 

Time for a fresh start.

 

Cochrane joined us from Rangers at Under 13 level.

 

Hickey started his career at Hearts then had a brief spell at Celtic before returning to Hearts.

 

In what universe do the above "facts" suggest that these players were developed at Rangers and Celtic?

 

How did you come up with your username?

[tartofmidlothian]

No. I like managerial continuity and he's the man to bring that. I'm also willing to cut him some slack for his own health problems, which he kept in the background but which must have had an effect.

 

However I'll bet Levein recognises as we all do that the past season was unacceptable, regardless of injuries or bad luck. He deserves three strikes. The first was when Cathro failed and he had to take over, the second was our league capitulation this season, the third would be failure next season.

 

For 2019/20 it's a bare minimum that we finish in the top four and don't go out of either cup to a team below us. Being generous I'd give him the whole season to do it, but if we're failing badly on either front by Christmas I might not be so sure.

[martoon]

52 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He’s not. He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business. Folk need to have a bit of patience. The  academy is beginning to produce and the best players have been retained. Probably the biggest downfall of the 2018/19 season was not retaining some of the key figures from 2017/18. I can’t help thinking that Lafferty, McLaughlin and Milinkovic have all suffered as much as Hearts by deciding to move. No party has won anything and McLaughlin hasn’t managed to get into the Championship, which was presumably one of the main attractions of moving to Sunderland. Those three on Saturday would have been the difference between glory and a glorious failure.

 

With all due respect, Mr E. there's a fair amount of hair splitting and ifs, buts and maybes in there.

 

CL oversaw the Cathro appointment, wanted to give him longer, apparently, and is responsible for 2/3 years of decline and mediocrity. 

 

The buck stops with him but Ann, sadly, is buckless. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by martoon

[soonbe110]

54 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He’s not. He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business. Folk need to have a bit of patience. The  academy is beginning to produce and the best players have been retained. Probably the biggest downfall of the 2018/19 season was not retaining some of the key figures from 2017/18. I can’t help thinking that Lafferty, McLaughlin and Milinkovic have all suffered as much as Hearts by deciding to move. No party has won anything and McLaughlin hasn’t managed to get into the Championship, which was presumably one of the main attractions of moving to Sunderland. Those three on Saturday would have been the difference between glory and a glorious failure.

Good points, hadn’t thought about the impact on this season of those that chose to leave. No doubt that had those three been playing for us on Sat we would have won 

[erskinehearts]

no

[soonbe110]

52 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Who did we sign in the summer he took over that we wouldn’t have if he was the manager? Berra? Lafferty? Smith? Big Jon? Milinkovic was a Levein signing too. 

 

Theres been too too much patience, from managers to new managers to give time and windows to injuries it’s always patience.  We need a here and now with no excuse.  Everyone talking about how Levein had Lennon on Saturday -  if it was the other way about and we got skelped it would have been “oh it’s someone else’s team give him the summer” 

To be fair Lafferty, big Jon and Skinny all ‘chose’ to leave. Hardly Leveins fault that all three chased much bigger money  elsewhere. Do you agree that had those three been playing this season we would have finished higher up the league and would probably be cup winners? Very difficult to adequately replace those three given our finances. 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Good points, hadn’t thought about the impact on this season of those that chose to leave. No doubt that had those three been playing for us on Sat we would have won 

Collum would just have awarded more penalties.

 

We were never winning on Saturday, Scottish Football needed the rebel treble treble apparently.

[soonbe110]

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

Collum would just have awarded more penalties.

 

We were never winning on Saturday, Scottish Football needed the rebel treble treble apparently.

Ok, but you get my point? Hardly Leveins fault they left and he gets zero credit for having signed them. 

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Ok, but you get my point? Hardly Leveins fault they left and he gets zero credit for having signed them. 

I wasn't trying to pick your point apart,  just still gutted and mumping about those cheating bassas.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He’s not. He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business. Folk need to have a bit of patience. The  academy is beginning to produce and the best players have been retained. Probably the biggest downfall of the 2018/19 season was not retaining some of the key figures from 2017/18. I can’t help thinking that Lafferty, McLaughlin and Milinkovic have all suffered as much as Hearts by deciding to move. No party has won anything and McLaughlin hasn’t managed to get into the Championship, which was presumably one of the main attractions of moving to Sunderland. Those three on Saturday would have been the difference between glory and a glorious failure.

 

Impressive signing list for someone who didn't do much business. This info is taken from FootballScotland.

 

Role: Head coach/Director of Football

Number of players signed: 14

Season 2018/19

The present day ... Hearts were bursting in the opening months of the campaign as they went on an unbeaten run spanning 13 games between July and October. They then lost a couple of key players, including Steven Naismith and in a bleak winter they went seven games without a win and managed just three wins before the year end.

Craig Levein in the dugout following Hearts' January defeat to Dundee at Tynecastle (Image: David Young/Action Plus via Getty Images)

The final one came against Hibs on December 29 and that gave fans a lift. When they returned from the winter break with a win over a Livingston team who had scudded them 5-0 in December there were further reasons to be cheerful. Today, following the midweek defeat to Dundee at Tynecastle, it's hard to find one. So far 18 players have been signed in 2018/19 and we still have a few days to go in the window.

Role: Head coach/director of football

Number of players signed: 18

The total

We have tallied this up in a couple of ways. The players signed while Levein was working as director of football and the number brought in when he was in sole charge of the team. When he took the job of head coach it was at the end of August 2017 and just one player was signed before the window closed - Ross Callachan from Raith Rovers.

Players signed while director of football: 53

 

Players signed while head coach and director of football: 23

Total number of signings while working at Hearts since 2014: 76

So there you have it. A total of 76 players signed since Levein's return to the club, the big question - that can't really be answered at this stage - is how many of them were solely his? The signing of 23 players in the 17 months he has worked as both coach and director of football does, however, stand as a pretty impressive turnover.

 

 

[Mr Elwood P]

14 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

With all due respect, Mr E. there's a fair amount of hair splitting and ifs, buts and maybes in there.

 

CL oversaw the Cathro appointment, wanted to give him longer, apparently, and is responsible for 2/3 years of decline and mediocrity. 

 

The buck stops with him but Ann, sadly, is buckless. 

 

That’s football though. The finest of margins between success and failure. An injury to a key player, a batch of fantastic young players emerging together, individual errors, failed signings, great signings, kind cup draws, cruel cup draws, penalties that never were or never should have been  ... 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

Impressive signing list for someone who didn't do much business. This info is taken from FootballScotland.

 

Role: Head coach/Director of Football

Number of players signed: 14

Season 2018/19

The present day ... Hearts were bursting in the opening months of the campaign as they went on an unbeaten run spanning 13 games between July and October. They then lost a couple of key players, including Steven Naismith and in a bleak winter they went seven games without a win and managed just three wins before the year end.

Craig Levein in the dugout following Hearts' January defeat to Dundee at Tynecastle (Image: David Young/Action Plus via Getty Images)

The final one came against Hibs on December 29 and that gave fans a lift. When they returned from the winter break with a win over a Livingston team who had scudded them 5-0 in December there were further reasons to be cheerful. Today, following the midweek defeat to Dundee at Tynecastle, it's hard to find one. So far 18 players have been signed in 2018/19 and we still have a few days to go in the window.

Role: Head coach/director of football

Number of players signed: 18

The total

We have tallied this up in a couple of ways. The players signed while Levein was working as director of football and the number brought in when he was in sole charge of the team. When he took the job of head coach it was at the end of August 2017 and just one player was signed before the window closed - Ross Callachan from Raith Rovers.

Players signed while director of football: 53

 

Players signed while head coach and director of football: 23

Total number of signings while working at Hearts since 2014: 76

So there you have it. A total of 76 players signed since Levein's return to the club, the big question - that can't really be answered at this stage - is how many of them were solely his? The signing of 23 players in the 17 months he has worked as both coach and director of football does, however, stand as a pretty impressive turnover.

 

 

 

Can you read?

[Coco]

53 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Cochrane joined us from Rangers at Under 13 level.

 

Hickey started his career at Hearts then had a brief spell at Celtic before returning to Hearts.

 

In what universe do the above "facts" suggest that these players were developed at Rangers and Celtic?

 

How did you come up with your username?

I've picked up the career history wrongly.  Many apologies.

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Can you read?

 

I can read even the joined up stuff. I am afraid that I am however not a mind reader so you will need to enlighten me on what your point is.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, JamboFever said:

I voted no to replacing the manager now, and here's why:

 

Levein is not a 'bad' manager, but is clearly not as flexible and tactically agile as we would like.  What disappointed me most about this season was that when injuries decimated both the first team squad and any momentum we were building in the autumn we went into a necessarily defensive shell from which we never emerged once the personnel situation improved.  A good bit of the responsibility for that has to lie with the coaching team, who should have had a critical mission to rediscover our early season attacking intent and fluency of passing and with it the results that took us to the top of the league.

 

Personally I don't think that failure is sufficient to warrant kicking Craig back upstairs just yet.  Back to back 6th place finishes don't sit well with any of us, but it's worth remembering that there were very different reasons for each.  The first was a desperate rearguard action to minimise and partially recover from the horrible impact of the Cathro era in personnel and performance terms which was taking us to the wrong end of the bottom six.  This season injuries ripped the arse out of it mid-season and we simply didn't manage to recover to anything like our potential performance levels.

 

Next season is the last chance saloon, I think.  Some judicious recruitment in key areas, probably 4 or 5 players, maximising the impact of the really promising youth we have (Cochrane, Hickey, Smith and Irving in particular) and maintaining consistently high levels of performance across the majority of the season should be an acceptable minimum baseline.  From that could (and maybe should) follow a challenge for 3rd in the league and more semis / finals.  Anne Budge has a key role here.  She needs to set the bar high and hold Craig to account if he can't take the team to that level, not in 3 or 4 or 5 years, but next year.  No excuses.

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoPo]

Amazed to see this poll is even close. 

 

Not just the management of the club that is content with mediocrity then.  

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

I can read even the joined up stuff. I am afraid that I am however not a mind reader so you will need to enlighten me on what your point is.

 

I wrote that he hadn’t done much business in the two winter windows, you replied with a lot of information about summer signings.

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I wrote that he hadn’t done much business in the two winter windows, you replied with a lot of information about summer signings.

 

This is what I read and replied to.

 

He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business.

[soonbe110]

17 minutes ago, ScoPo said:

Amazed to see this poll is even close. 

 

Not just the management of the club that is content with mediocrity then.  

As is unfortunately regularly the case these days, the apparent ‘viewpoint of the majority of the Hearts support’ on here, is hardly that. 

A few hours in and jkb votes so far, which represents about  2-3% of the Hearts support, and it’s pretty much 50/50. 

[Jodami]

Crexit poll almost identically tracking the Brexit poll currently. Tense! 

[martoon]

41 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

That’s football though. The finest of margins between success and failure. An injury to a key player, a batch of fantastic young players emerging together, individual errors, failed signings, great signings, kind cup draws, cruel cup draws, penalties that never were or never should have been  ... 

 

Fair enough, bud. 

 

A difference of opinion, whist remaining courteous and polite, is my kind of post exchange. 

 

Edit: although I did call a dodgy poster a rude name a month or so back which I regret and apologise for. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by martoon

[Phil Dunphy]

Tbf, it’s very easy to sit at home and say “**** it, let’s keep him.”

 

The dwindling numbers in the crowd tell their own story of how the support in general feel about the current management setup. 

[Rudolf]

25 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

This is what I read and replied to.

 

He has been manager for less than two seasons and only had one summer transfer window and two winter windows, in which we didn’t do much business.

I liked the bit at the start where we only lost a couple of key players to injury, including Steven Naismith. 

[redjambo]

No. I've changed my mind on this one, although I was never a die-hard "Levein must go!!!" guy anyway, just a moderate "I think we need a change" guy.. Youth could be his saviour, as could a relatively injury-free season.

[Inch Hearts]

1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

that wasn't Levein in charge so your point is completely irrelevant regarding those results

Also if you class 3-1 as "smashed" you're easily pleased

 

I obviously wasn’t pleased it was ****ing shit.  

 

It is relevant because he chooses the managers and it’s been 4 years of Hibs better.  That’s what is getting most of our backs up. 

[Inch Hearts]

Just now, redjambo said:

No. I've changed my mind on this one, although I was never a die-hard "Levein must go!!!" guy anyway, just a moderate "I think we need a change" guy.. Youth could be his saviour, as could a relatively injury-free season.

 

Best person to bring them through - Craig.  For that you Reason I share similar views. 

[Alex Kintner]

3 hours ago, Gershwin said:

I want an experienced coach who leads training to take charge of the team. Not a fan of Levein leaving training to rookies like Daly, Fox, McPhee...

 

I do wonder if Levein was more involved in the week leading up to the final as the team seemed a lot more organised at Hampden.

 

I also want to tap into the network of a better coach as well - someone who can identify better players and bring in better personnel to support them.

 

I think you’re going to be a happy bunny ?

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

What happens in October?

 

Halloween. The only thing I can think of anyway.

[Phil Dunphy]

Olly Lees Left Boot seemingly doesn’t understand how the recruitment process for a job works. 

 

Can’t say I’m hugely surprised. 

[redjambo]

Just now, Barack said:

Thought these votes on here aren't reflective of the Hearts' support. 

 

But they are if you're on the right side of the vote.

 

I'm abstaining.?

 

Don't let that fence post make you too uncomfortable!

[Absolute Scenes]

6 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

I obviously wasn’t pleased it was ****ing shit.  

 

It is relevant because he chooses the managers and it’s been 4 years of Hibs better.  That’s what is getting most of our backs up. 

 

this is about Levein as a manager, not who he signed as manager - so stop using other managers as a stick to beat him with: therefore your points about Cathro results and Neilsons are irrelevant to this thread about the CURRENT hearts MANAGER (not DOF)

 

[gnasher75]

If Robbie had stayed and led us to two successive 6th place finishes, would he have been kept on? I don't think so.

 

Hearts can and should be doing better and the hope that we might do better next year or the year after isn't good enough.

 

The Cup final tactics and performance were excellent but for far too many games this season that has not been the case.

 

It is such a pity that he didn't win the Cup and go out on a high but we can't afford to be sentimental (remember day 1 of the Budge/Levein reign!).

 

Not knowing who to replace him with isn't a good reason for holding on to him and hoping things will improve. Create a vacancy and then look carefully at all the applicants.

 

The time to act is now to give the new guy time to plan for next season. Sadly that won't happen.

[Rudy T]

It’s really not that simple is it....how many wanted Robbie gone...we got Cathro!

 

same could happen here! If we had   a list of alternatives it might be easier to answer!

 

FWIW I don’t think he will be Manager!

[Phil Dunphy]

3 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

Not knowing who to replace him with isn't a good reason for holding on to him and hoping things will improve. Create a vacancy and then look carefully at all the applicants.

 

Your post was bang on the money, but I wanted to highlight this bit in particular. 

 

Candidates aren’t going to step forward and say “I want this job” when there isn’t a job there. 

[gnasher75]

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Your post was bang on the money, but I wanted to highlight this bit in particular. 

 

Candidates aren’t going to step forward and say “I want this job” when there isn’t a job there. 

 

Unless they are Tory MPs!

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, gnasher75 said:

 

Unless they are Tory MPs!

 

 True. 

 

 

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Before the cup final it would have been 70% for a new manager.

 

Play weĺl in a cup final that Levein actually prepared properly for and that's enough to change people's minds?

 

  Idiots

 

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

35 minutes ago, Barack said:

Thought these votes on here aren't reflective of the Hearts' support. 

 

But they are if you're on the right side of the vote.

 

 

I'm abstaining.?

Nah, that actual percentage is far higher than 50% out.