End of season Craig Levein poll

[Jambo-Fox]

2 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

A great poll to prove Levein is popular?????

More than half want a new Manager in!!

’Gobby loudmouths’ please! ?

Yep ... he has the job and should keep it, the silent majority have spoken!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Through Christmas at least. We were gutted by injuries. See if he can reproduce the beginning of season form.

[Beast Boy]

6 hours ago, Jammy T said:

 

Fair comment.

 

But like I annoy ‘fellow’ Hearts fans who tell me where to go the feeling is often mutual.

 

 

 

You take some amount of stick without complaining. You have a longer tether than I.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

So when we won the SC in 2012 and the entire structure of the club was in dire straits, you didn’t give a monkeys

 

You’re a mess,squire. 

 

Try reading the thread before spouting off squire!

The particular debate I responded to was specifically related to points and final league positions.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Yep ... he has the job and should keep it, the silent majority have spoken!

 

“Silent majority” ?

[fila]

Should happen, but wont happen

[Jammy T]

6 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I'd say you'll only have been proven right over someone who wants Levein sacked if there's pretty substantial improvement next season. I'd say that means a top four finish, and if it's fourth, we'd have to have pushed whoever finished third hard all the way, and not been miles and miles off second either, plus we'd have to have done at least reasonably well in the cups (i.e. not lost to teams well below us in the league(s) and not gone out early unless to a very strong team.

 

Ok i’ll take that.

[Jammy T]

7 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

So in summary I’m a self entitled, stupid, Levein hating, wee prick....

 

I think that covers it! ?

 

No. I think people can have stupid opinions without themselves being stupid.

 

So I think it is stupid to get rid of Levein when he is one transfer window from adding the remaining quality he says he needs to unlock close games and when HIS key players have all nearly signed up long term.

 

We have seen that these key players can combine and play top of the league football so to have a new manager come in that might not ‘fancy’ these long term contracted players seems a bit stupid when we have hardly had a disastrous season.

 

It’s like when in season 1 of the Romanov era when things started kicking off I said we should cut Romanov some slack as we needed to see things from his point of view - that was a stupid opinion.

[Kiwidoug]

I'll always be more adventurous than a 4th place finish.  We should be challenging near the top and have a much better record against the top clubs.

 

That's the challenge for the squad and the coaching staff and I'll be backing all the way.

 

All the way though will dissipate rapidly if we dont dramatically improve on the last 3 seasons.

[Jammy T]

1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

I'll always be more adventurous than a 4th place finish.  We should be challenging near the top and have a much better record against the top clubs.

 

That's the challenge for the squad and the coaching staff and I'll be backing all the way.

 

All the way though will dissipate rapidly if we dont dramatically improve on the last 3 seasons.

 

IMO Celtic will decline next season with Lennon (has he accepted yet?); you simply can’t predict what will happen with Rangers; Killie have peaked; Aberdeen are starting a downward curve; Hibs could go either way because this new manager of theirs seems to play ‘pragmatic’ football and we don’t know what his signing policy will be; and then there is us.

 

So my personal target for us would be 3rd at a minimum but there is a chance of a surprisingly competitive league at the top next year IMO.

 

However that isn’t the basis of my potential retirement from JKB ?

[Jambof3tornado]

5 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Through Christmas at least. We were gutted by injuries. See if he can reproduce the beginning of season form.

And if not it can be another transitional season.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

No. I think people can have stupid opinions without themselves being stupid.

 

So I think it is stupid to get rid of Levein when he is one transfer window from adding the remaining quality he says he needs to unlock close games and when HIS key players have all nearly signed up long term.

 

We have seen that these key players can combine and play top of the league football so to have a new manager come in that might not ‘fancy’ these long term contracted players seems a bit stupid when we have hardly had a disastrous season.

 

It’s like when in season 1 of the Romanov era when things started kicking off I said we should cut Romanov some slack as we needed to see things from his point of view - that was a stupid opinion.

 

Stupid is as stupid does..............Forrest Gump

[i wish jj was my dad]

7 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

So when we won the SC in 2012 and the entire structure of the club was in dire straits, you didn’t give a monkeys

 

You’re a mess,squire. 

That's it in a nutshell. Nothing else matters as long as first team results are good. 

 

While it is understandable and important to immediate revenue streams it is very short sighted and an outlook we can't afford to have ever again. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Lol. Half want him gone.

 

Thats a lot of gobby loudmouths.

 

To be honest I'm very surprised it's so even. I'm sure I've read many posts from the out camp that the vast majority want him out. If you factor in the JKB is only a small % of the support who knows.

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

And if not it can be another transitional season.

 

And if a new manager (probably with a new coaching team) comes in it will 100% be a transitional season. With possibly less chance of it improving (league wise) than the incumbent.

[portobellojambo1]

21 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

To be honest I'm very surprised it's so even. I'm sure I've read many posts from the out camp that the vast majority want him out. If you factor in the JKB is only a small % of the support who knows.

 

There is a number, possibly around 450, who are fairly regular posters on here, and there is probably an even split of thoughts.. The number of people who have voted on this poll is around twice that number, but still the split is around 50/50. If you apply that same percentage across the average home attendance at Tynecastle it creates a fairly significant total numbers wise, although not much different percentage wise, and that is where the issue lies. Across the whole regular support it creates a situation where the club could lose out financially, depending on how ST sales develop. There are no certainties if changing a coach, at any time, the danger is it is difficult, for me, to imagine any change in the way we play/line up if there is no change.

[Beast Boy]

17 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

There is a number, possibly around 450, who are fairly regular posters on here, and there is probably an even split of thoughts.. The number of people who have voted on this poll is around twice that number, but still the split is around 50/50. If you apply that same percentage across the average home attendance at Tynecastle it creates a fairly significant total numbers wise, although not much different percentage wise, and that is where the issue lies. Across the whole regular support it creates a situation where the club could lose out financially, depending on how ST sales develop. There are no certainties if changing a coach, at any time, the danger is it is difficult, for me, to imagine any change in the way we play/line up if there is no change.

 

50/50 on a manager is probably fairly common at different stages of their tenure at a club. Could very quickly swing overwhelmingly in either direction depending on form. Wouldn’t be surprised to see it go 80% either direction depending upon how things transpire next season. As it stands just now though. Ann Budge would be crazy to get rid of a manager who divides fans 50/50, especially when he is trying to build something. RIP that all up and start again on the manager merry go round? Not a chance, at least not unless he was staying as DoF with a head coach taking over first team setup.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Icon of Symmetry

[Jodami]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

50/50 on a manager is probably fairly common at different stages of their tenure at a club. Could very quickly swing overwhelmingly in either direction depending on form. Wouldn’t be surprised to see it go 80% either direction depending upon how things transpire next season. As it stands just now though. Ann Budge would be crazy to get rid of a manager who divides fans 50/50, especially when he is trying to build something. RIP that all up and start again on the manager merry go round? Not a chance. 

Absolutely agree that 50/50 split of people wanting a change is a common occurrence, the key question is how the 50% that want change react. If it's the same way as PJ and I have reacted, wanting change but still purchasing season tickets as usual, then it doesn't present much of a problem. If it does impact on season ticket sales that becomes more of an issue. 

p.s. liking the new Chvrches inspired theme! 

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Absolutely agree that 50/50 split of people wanting a change is a common occurrence, the key question is how the 50% that want change react. If it's the same way as PJ and I have reacted, wanting change but still purchasing season tickets as usual, then it doesn't present much of a problem. If it does impact on season ticket sales that becomes more of an issue. 

p.s. liking the new Chvrches inspired theme! 

 

I think PJ1 and yourself probably do represent the bulk of those who want change. Intelligent fans with an opinion, and not inclined to just shout as loud and as often as you can until it looks as though you are the vast majority. I expect you have both been through enough poor seasons and good seasons too, so you know that the season before is no sure fire indication of what the next one holds. Honest fans with an opinion who just want to see the club doing well. I naively expect that is the same for the vast majority, and that season ticket sales won’t be massively impacted.

 

Cheers. Felt like a change. ?

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Icon of Symmetry

[wavydavy]

43 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And if a new manager (probably with a new coaching team) comes in it will 100% be a transitional season. With possibly less chance of it improving (league wise) than the incumbent.

 

They seemed to hit the ground running staright away at Killie after they appointed Steve Clarke so not always transitional although I think more often than not your theory is probably correct.

[Nookie Bear]

22 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

50/50 on a manager is probably fairly common at different stages of their tenure at a club. Could very quickly swing overwhelmingly in either direction depending on form. Wouldn’t be surprised to see it go 80% either direction depending upon how things transpire next season. As it stands just now though. Ann Budge would be crazy to get rid of a manager who divides fans 50/50, especially when he is trying to build something. RIP that all up and start again on the manager merry go round? Not a chance, at least not unless he was staying as DoF with a head coach taking over first team setup.

 

 

 

The issue with this is that we seem unable to relieve Levein if his Head Coach duties as it undermines his duties as DoF. 

 

As DoF his task is indeed to build something. That also applies to his Boardroom job. But his Head Coach role is to get results, and the success of that is very much open to question. 

 

I suppose what what I am saying is that we have gone ‘all in’ on Craig to the point where removing his Head Coach job would be too disruptive. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

They seemed to hit the ground running staright away at Killie after they appointed Steve Clarke so not always transitional although I think more often than not your theory is probably correct.

 

And there's the rub. I've not been happy with a lot of our performances this year but I do worry about the old adage "be careful what you wish or".  One cup final, one semi final but only 6th in the league is not in any way shape or form a disastrous season. The style of football has been poor far too often but the same players were playing great football and flying in the first few months of the season. In my opinion it's not ever going to be a sackable season. If he decides to step down for health reasons I'd support that. Too often we've not seen the old fiery Levein on the sidelines there have been cameo appearances of it though and they've tended to be our best performances. If he's worried about his health long term then I can only see that as a reason he'll step down.

[Bridge of Djoum]

8 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Try reading the thread before spouting off squire!

The particular debate I responded to was specifically related to points and final league positions.

My point stands though. 

[JamboAl]

31 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

They seemed to hit the ground running staright away at Killie after they appointed Steve Clarke so not always transitional although I think more often than not your theory is probably correct.

It may have been that Killie were so poorly managed previously that it only needed a few minor adjustments and then momentum takes over.  They slid back a bit in the 2nd half of the season.

I'll bet that you could name a hundred managerial changes where results didn't materially improve.

Next season another team will do well elsewhere and the moaners on here will say "why did we not do that?" - with the advantage of hindsight of course.

Edited June 2, 2019 by JamboAl

[Bridge of Djoum]

24 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The issue with this is that we seem unable to relieve Levein if his Head Coach duties as it undermines his duties as DoF. 

 

As DoF his task is indeed to build something. That also applies to his Boardroom job. But his Head Coach role is to get results, and the success of that is very much open to question. 

 

I suppose what what I am saying is that we have gone ‘all in’ on Craig to the point where removing his Head Coach job would be too disruptive. 

Good post. 

 

I had wondered about this recently and you articulated it better than I could. 

[Beast Boy]

25 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The issue with this is that we seem unable to relieve Levein if his Head Coach duties as it undermines his duties as DoF. 

 

As DoF his task is indeed to build something. That also applies to his Boardroom job. But his Head Coach role is to get results, and the success of that is very much open to question. 

 

I suppose what what I am saying is that we have gone ‘all in’ on Craig to the point where removing his Head Coach job would be too disruptive. 

 

I don’t actually disagree with much there. Broadly in agreement. The only real difference is that I am quite pleased that we went all in, and you are not.

 

The managerial merry go round is not a game that we have done too well with over the decades. I want to break the wheel.

 

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

I don’t actually disagree with much there. Broadly in agreement. The only real difference is that I am quite pleased that we went all in, and you are not.

 

The managerial merry go round is not a game that we have done too well with over the decades. I want to break the wheel.

 

 

That was what we tried to do with Cathro.  It was an imaginative appointment which we now know failed but I feel that was largely down to Cathro's lack of communication skills and charisma, rather than his coaching ability.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Good post. 

 

I had wondered about this recently and you articulated it better than I could. 

 

I was due one 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I was due one 

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That was what we tried to do with Cathro.  It was an imaginative appointment which we now know failed but I feel that was largely down to Cathro's lack of communication skills and charisma, rather than his coaching ability.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

True. I think in future though, head coaches will be helped by having a fully functioning youth system behind them, and a fully matured infrastructure. Agree that it didn’t seem to be Cathro’s tactical nous that let him down.

 

 

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

True. I think in future though, head coaches will be helped by having a fully functioning youth system behind them, and a fully matured infrastructure. Agree that it didn’t seem to be Cathro’s tactical nous that let him down.

 

 

The unknown factor about Cathro was that no one knew how he would fare as a manager because ours was his first such appointment.  We could only best guess and his lack of success was welcomed by the weegie biased press who were desperate for him to fail - after all were Rangers Mark 2 not after him as well and he chose us?

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

after all were Rangers Mark 2 not after him as well and he chose us?

 

Think so. Rangers wanted Cathro, Scotland wanted McPhee.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

My point stands though. 

 

Your point was totally irrelevant to the specific discussion - try to keep up young chap. ?

[Tenaciousdandy]

Personally i'd give Levein until end of October mid November to see what happens, we were going well last season until the horrific injuries the first 11 sustained in a short period of time, if its not working out get a new manager in to assess the squad before the January window and let Levein focus on the academy/upstairs

[JamboAl]

Just looked at the poll and there are 4 more votes to get rid.

Wow, that's an overwhelming majority!

 

[Inch Hearts]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Just looked at the poll and there are 4 more votes to get rid.

Wow, that's an overwhelming majority!

 

 

Just looked at it and there’s 474 betwetting troublemaking posters who haven’t a clue  - as you would put it.  I’m not one of them just pointing out hypocrisy all over the pace. 

[wavydavy]

17 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Just looked at it and there’s 474 betwetting troublemaking posters who haven’t a clue  - as you would put it.  I’m not one of them just pointing out hypocrisy all over the pace. 

 

Not quite sure how someobdy voting differently to you can be deemed Hypocritical?

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The issue with this is that we seem unable to relieve Levein if his Head Coach duties as it undermines his duties as DoF. 

 

As DoF his task is indeed to build something. That also applies to his Boardroom job. But his Head Coach role is to get results, and the success of that is very much open to question. 

 

I suppose what what I am saying is that we have gone ‘all in’ on Craig to the point where removing his Head Coach job would be too disruptive. 

 

 

Good post. 

 

However, if things were really bad I think Ann would remove him. 

 

We have been average, but Ann is more visionary and patient than most so will stick for the time being as we aren't anywhere near the " it's gone so bad so rip it all up" stage. 

 

Time will tell if all in  and patience is the right way. 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[Inch Hearts]

16 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Not quite sure how someobdy voting differently to you can be deemed Hypocritical?

 

Who voted differently to me?

 

Al has a go at bed wetters, troublemakers,Anti Levein with agendas (and so on) as if it’s a vocal minority on here while not only being hysterical to back track when’s there’s a majority of overall posters on here, loud or not, that would like w change. I voted remain btw. 

[Inch Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Good post. 

 

However, if things were really bad I think Ann would remove him. 

 

We have been average, but Ann is more visionary and patient than most so will stick for the time being as we aren't anywhere near the " it's gone so bad so rip it all up" stage. 

 

Time will tell if all in  and patience is the right way. 

 

 

I don’t think AB would want to reach right into the core of the matter and ever conclude she was wrong. I’m not saying she’s arrogant or anything I just couldn’t see it but I’ve been wrong before I didn’t think the sfa would sack MLeish and dare appoint Clarke and admit it was wrong. Livi was our Khazak moment. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

I don’t think AB would want to reach right into the core of the matter and ever conclude she was wrong. I’m not saying she’s arrogant or anything I just couldn’t see it but I’ve been wrong before I didn’t think the sfa would sack MLeish and dare appoint Clarke and admit it was wrong. Livi was our Khazak moment. 

 

 

Don't agree. 

For starters,

Budge is far more progressive than the SFA. 

The SFA are terrible and just about everything they do is wrong. 

 

Peterhead and Dunfermline was our khazak moment under Cathro, and he got sacked because of it. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[Inch Hearts]

Just now, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Don't agree. 

For starters,

Budge is far more progressive than the SFA. 

The SFA are terrible and just about everything they do is wrong. 

 

Peterhead and Dunfermline was our khazak moment under Cathro, and he got sacked because of it. 

 

 

 

Fair play. I’m not sure how more progressive, they both appointed CL - Cathro should have went before the summer tho as it was a clear disaster. Dunfermline was the titanic moment that questions the judgement of appoiments, so far, the duty is well and truly out.  I can’t see an admitting of its wrong on her last season as owner.  I hope it doesn’t come anywhere near that though and we build to leave a football legacy in years to come

 

Old ground though. ?

 

 

[wavydavy]

15 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Who voted differently to me?

 

Al has a go at bed wetters, troublemakers,Anti Levein with agendas (and so on) as if it’s a vocal minority on here while not only being hysterical to back track when’s there’s a majority of overall posters on here, loud or not, that would like w change. I voted remain btw. 

 

I obvioulsy misunderstood the point you were making and I have no idea who voted differently to you.

[Inch Hearts]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

I obvioulsy misunderstood the point you were making and I have no idea who voted differently to you.

 

No bother Davy ?

[Cruyff Turn]

475 to 474 

 

Looks like folk are willing to give things a bit longer. 

[eusabio]

 I know that whether or not C.L. stays  or goes is the most debated topic on kickback at this time but can we drop all the primary school insults and exchange views In an adult manner? After all whichever views you have, we are all  Hearts supporters and all want what is best for the club and having differing opinions is part of the attraction of being a supporter. Also any criticism of the club seems to attract abuse from some sources, but in my opinion we should praise what is good and criticise what we deem to be bad, and that in turn means that we should not necessarily agree with everything said by Craig, Anne Budge or anybody else at the club. I am not a supporter of Craig as a manager although I thought he was a brilliant player who, but for injury could have gone on to greater things but lots of great players have proved to be poor managers such as Willie Miller, Frank Sauzee, Ally McCoist, 

&  John Greig and some of the best mangers such as Alex Ferguson, and Jock Stein were mediocre players. Having said all that, I would like to give my reasons why I don't think he is a good manager and would welcome replies as to why others think he is good so long as they are genuine footballing reasons and not because he is "A good Hearts man" as there are thousands of us who could identify with that tag.

1) Srategy he signs 18 journeymen, some who are injured on arrival, others who are injured soon after, some are immediately loaned out and yet others who just cannot hack it. 

It would surely have been better signing 3 better class players and bringing in some of the youngsters gradually. I think we could have stood a poor season in these circumstances, but  youngsters come and go never to be heard of for a long time.

2) Tactics I've lost count of the number of times that we are attacking in the opponents half  and when we are challenged, the ball gets passed back and ends up wiith the keeper who boots it upfield only to be won by the opposition.

At corners he has eleven men in the box and if we win the ball, back it comes immediately. Any pub team player knows you stick one player on the centre spot and this drags 2 of theirs away and stretches their team out of the box. Levein has been asked why on more than one occasion and just replies " Thats how I want to play it"

Well that's my rant over. Looking forward to reading what others think that Levein brings to the table.

[MTS1874]

We all await with bated breath for our new dynamic signings who will help Levein to easily win the Bet Fred Group. If that happens the fans will be right behind him. If we struggle in the Bet Fred games the seethe on here will unbelievable and he’ll lose the backing of the fans.

[gedster]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

475 to 474 

 

Looks like folk are willing to give things a bit longer. 

Take away the vermin infiltrators and "Levein to go" will still be comfortably winning.

[Beast Boy]

15 minutes ago, gedster said:

Take away the vermin infiltrators and "Levein to go" will still be comfortably winning.

 

[Gorillajam]

I voted No.

 

I'd wait to see how Levein performs in the summer transfer window. If by Christmas we are still showing stagnant progress then look elsewhere. Personally don't believe Neil McCann is the man to take us forward. My vote would be Jack Ross if he is sacked by Sunderland.