Naismith - aims for return against Rangers ( updated )

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

If injuries are the justification for us finishing 6th and below Budge's own benchmark of 4th, why do you think a lot of fans don't accept that justification and want a change? Why do you think they can't see what you do?

 

4th was the target? Looking at the table now I think saying we lost 13 points because of the injuries is pretty reasonable and not a justification at all, just the reality of what happened this season. It's been said before but pick any 4 or more of the teams above us best players and take them out of the team for an extended period, mostly all at the same time - any manager would have struggled same as we did. Or to put it another way, any manager who could cope with the injuries we've had and still challenge for Europe (and get to a cup final as I assume you'd still want us to do that) wouldn't be managing in Scotland very long.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Guest

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Rudolf said:

If season ticket sales are slow there are other factors such as the expense of the last month or so coupled with the delay in getting a new company to handle payment by instalments.

 

The renewal period was also extended for a month 

 

all perfectly reasonable assumptions for slower sales but you blame it all on Levein.

 

Time will tell I suppose.  

Levein is the manager. He's accountable for on field performance.

 

Still, glad you backed down on your previous allegation.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

4th was the target? Looking at the table now I think saying we lost 13 points because of the injuries is pretty reasonable and not a justification at all, just the reality of what happened this season. It's been said before but pick any 4 or more of the teams above us best players and take them out of the team for an extended period, mostly all at the same time - any manager would have struggled same as we did. Or to put it another way, any manager who could cope with the injuries we've had and still challenge for Europe (and get to a cup final as I assume you'd still want us to do that) wouldn't be managing in Scotland very long.

Yes, 4th was Ann Budge's target.

 

And I disagree that injuries are the only reason for where we've finished. Since we got humped in that semi-final in October we've been a pale shadow of the team at the start of the season.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Yes, 4th was Ann Budge's target.

 

And I disagree that injuries are the only reason for where we've finished. Since we got humped in that semi-final in October we've been a pale shadow of the team at the start of the season.

 

Well yes because we literally were a pale shadow of that team. Injuries do affect teams. Liverpool would probably be playing to retain the CL next week if Salah hadn’t gone off the way he did last year. You could see how Liverpool immediately deflated. Naismith in that semi had the same effect on us.

 

Obviously the injuries are just part of it as we haven't played well with key players back (although doubtful some of them like berra or haring were even fully fit) but momentum is everything in football and we got stopped in our tracks in very unfortunate curcumstances. Give Levein a break for christs sake. The guy even had a heart attack this season! 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Guest

[Mr Elwood P]

21 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Yes, 4th was Ann Budge's target.

 

And I disagree that injuries are the only reason for where we've finished. Since we got humped in that semi-final in October we've been a pale shadow of the team at the start of the season.

 

We had a good run again from Boxing Day when we won 6 out of 8 matches including away wins against Hibs and Kilmarnock. The wheels came off again against Motherwell when Doyle chucked the ball in the net. That game was followed by a Sean Clare own goal against St Mirren in the next game. Fine margins, I'm still frustrated by Naismith's penalty miss against Livingston. Intrigued as to the alternative explanation for the poor runs of form if it isn't injuries. Blaming Levein lacks logic as he was the manager for the outstanding start to the season and has been the manager for the two successful cup runs.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[sadj]

**** me!!! Came on to see if there was anything on his vid at the POTY awards...but think ill

just head to the Levein thread and see if its there as clearly kickback is playing up and the threads are messed up

[CloustonHMFC]

Imagine the scenes, it’s cup final day and the team has just been posted on Hearts twitter and Naismith starts. That’s quickly followed up by a photo of scarf over head at Hampden with confirmation of a 3 year player/coach deal. ???

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Well yes because we literally were a pale shadow of that team. Injuries do affect teams. Liverpool would probably be playing to retain the CL next week if Salah hadn’t gone off the way he did last year. You could see how Liverpool immediately deflated. Naismith in that semi had the same effect on us.

 

Obviously the injuries are just part of it as we haven't played well with key players back (although doubtful some of them like berra or haring were even fully fit) but momentum is everything in football and we got stopped in our tracks in very unfortunate curcumstances. Give Levein a break for christs sake. The guy even had a heart attack this season! 

Injuries play a part. Obviously. The point is you can't claim that as the only reason. We signed 20 players this season and you could count the success stories of those on one hand. That's in the manager's wheelhouse. That's what he's accountable for because he chose to build the squad to cover for injuries in this fashion. Not saying the players should be the same level. Equally, you can't hype a signing and then never be questioned on why they aren't used (Vanecek).

 

Now, getting back to Naismith, it is a quality signing and everyone should be happy. It doesn't mean anything to Craig Levein's future though.

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We had a good run again from Boxing Day when we won 6 out of 8 matches including away wins against Hibs and Kilmarnock. The wheels came off again against Motherwell when Doyle chucked the ball in the net. That game was followed by a Sean Clare own goal against St Mirren in the next game. Fine margins, I'm still frustrated by Naismith's penalty miss against Livingston. Intrigued as to the alternative explanation for the poor runs of form if it isn't injuries. Blaming Levein lacks logic as he was the manager for the outstanding start to the season and has been the manager for the two successful cup runs.

See above. 20 signings for the first team squad. 5-6 success stories. That is the fundamental problem and is entirely Craig Levein's responsibility.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

See above. 20 signings for the first team squad. 5-6 success stories. That is the fundamental problem and is entirely Craig Levein's responsibility.

 

Maybe it’s just me but 5 or 6 success stories out the bat is pretty good. Added to the success stories we already had like smith, berra, souttar, djoum and naismith that’s a whole team of success stories.

 

And it’s not like the other squad players aren’t fit for purpose. Lee, Bozanic, garruccii, mitchell, mulraney, clare, edwards, and co are all fine squad players for this level. The problem was too many players signed for the squad and cover ended up as first picks due to the injuries.

[August Landmesser]

6 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We had a good run again from Boxing Day when we won 6 out of 8 matches including away wins against Hibs and Kilmarnock. The wheels came off again against Motherwell when Doyle chucked the ball in the net. That game was followed by a Sean Clare own goal against St Mirren in the next game. Fine margins, I'm still frustrated by Naismith's penalty miss against Livingston. Intrigued as to the alternative explanation for the poor runs of form if it isn't injuries. Blaming Levein lacks logic as he was the manager for the outstanding start to the season and has been the manager for the two successful cup runs.

Also that penalty given against us up in Perth, Madden's performance at Tynie v the Huns, Brandon's red card v Celtic etc. Whether incompetence or bias, the effect of refereeing inconsistencies is the same - loss of momentum, loss of morale, loss of points.

[GorgieFifeLife]

9 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I know Fife's said to stand for 'feckin idiots, feckin everywhere', but this takes the biscuit!!!!

Farmers are also known for not having much between the ears. It's all opinions and I think he is a decent player. If he was such a top player he would be taking good money from a Championship club.  He is certainly a bonus for us but if we don't get quality around him next season will be more of the same guff.

[Portable Badger]

8 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

Assuming Levein stays another year and Naismith plays another year and we decide to do the succession thing.

 

Season 2020/21:

 

Daly - Head Coach

McPhee - Assistant

Kirk - Assistant

Naismith - U-20s Manager

 

Could happen

I don't think you'll be a million miles away with this - I expect Naismith will be announced with some form of Mgt/coaching role in the next few weeks

[Section Q]

14 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I am intrigued by this Plan B especially when you lose who is probably your most influential player.

Can you give me some idea of what your Plan B would have been or what you think CL's should have been?   (In this connection, I am sure you will be aware CL did not have a crystal ball to tell him which players were going to be injured and for how long)

Intrigued.....?

[The Treasurer]

I opened this thread entitled "Naismith" thinking it would be either about him signing or his fitness.

But no, this being JKB, it's just the usual bitch-fest about totally different, unrelated subjects

[Deevers]

7 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I opened this thread entitled "Naismith" thinking it would be either about him signing or his fitness.

But no, this being JKB, it's just the usual bitch-fest about totally different, unrelated subjects

This 100%.  There is one huge Levein thread out there for the manic anti CL brigade to bay at the moon on.  Every other thread in here just now lands up infected with the Levein oot stuff from the usual suspects. Unnecessary and very boring.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Deevers

[Rudolf]

8 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Levein is the manager. He's accountable for on field performance.

 

Still, glad you backed down on your previous allegation.

Stating the obvious there Geoff.

 

Doesn't prove he's entirely responsible for your unsubstantiated quote re season ticket sales though does it.

 

It may not have been the game in December but you definitely were for sacking him if we didn't win a particular game against Hibs. 

 

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

28 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I opened this thread entitled "Naismith" thinking it would be either about him signing or his fitness.

But no, this being JKB, it's just the usual bitch-fest about totally different, unrelated subjects

Here here

[Perrykitch]

Is Naismith fit for the final?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

35 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

Stating the obvious there Geoff.

 

Doesn't prove he's entirely responsible for your unsubstantiated quote re season ticket sales though does it.

 

It may not have been the game in December but you definitely were for sacking him if we didn't win a particular game against Hibs. 

 

 

 

Oh FFS! 

 

No, it doesn't prove it but let's consider why that could be.

 

1. Change in economic circumstances of fans - nothing material

 

2. Changes in fan experience - negative for some but overall better

 

3. What people are paying to watch? Like Henry the Mild Mannered Janitor, COULD BE!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

7 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Maybe it’s just me but 5 or 6 success stories out the bat is pretty good. Added to the success stories we already had like smith, berra, souttar, djoum and naismith that’s a whole team of success stories.

 

And it’s not like the other squad players aren’t fit for purpose. Lee, Bozanic, garruccii, mitchell, mulraney, clare, edwards, and co are all fine squad players for this level. The problem was too many players signed for the squad and cover ended up as first picks due to the injuries.

Well, I beg to differ especially since we've wasted transfer fees on two duds in Clare and Wighton.

 

And I count Mulraney as one of the success stories.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Maybe it’s just me but 5 or 6 success stories out the bat is pretty good. Added to the success stories we already had like smith, berra, souttar, djoum and naismith that’s a whole team of success stories.

 

And it’s not like the other squad players aren’t fit for purpose. Lee, Bozanic, garruccii, mitchell, mulraney, clare, edwards, and co are all fine squad players for this level. The problem was too many players signed for the squad and cover ended up as first picks due to the injuries.

Quite clearly, if they can't come in and cover for injured players then they are not fit for purpose. If you come in and do a good job, you become a "first pick". That's why you have a squad. We are talking about replacing guys like Haring, who came in as a CH, Uche and Berra ffs. Naismith is an exception and we did miss him but the rest should be easily replaced. If they are "fine squad players" as you claim, then they come in and prove it. 

[busby1985]

Square pegs in round holes, pretty much sums up our approach to coping with the injury crisis. You have to be mental to think that injuries haven’t hindered our season, you’d also be pretty mental not to see that we haven’t handled the injury crisis very well. Rushing players back, playing players with injuries (Uche, Haring, morrison), side changing every week, shape changing twice a game sometimes, all of this combined have resulted in what we’ve seen. Let’s stop going round and round in circles, it’s boring. 

 

Naismith would’ve challenged for player of the year if he’d stayed fit. Amazing business to get him here permanent. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Section Q said:

Intrigued.....?

Definition: to arouse the curiosity

 

What is your idea of a Plan B you think he should have had/followed?

Apart from having like-for-like replacements (which we cannot afford) ready to put in, what could he have done during our worst injury spell?

Who do you imagine we should have had on our books who would have easily slotted in for Naisy?  Oh, and how much would he have cost?

[wavydavy]

12 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Correct, it would be harsh and to me it is the only way he can save his job.

 

And it wasn't my point, if you read again.

 

If only that were true. Even if we lose the final CL will still be our Coach next season if it is up to AB.

 

The only way he will be going is if he decides to go on his own terms she will not sack him.

 

Oh and for the benefit of JamboAl this is all my own opinion and I have absolutely no proof whatsoever that this will in fact be the case.

 

Sorry I couldn't put my reply in one word.

[The White Cockade]

A lot of people moaning no point in signing Naisy if there is no Plan B for when he’s injured 

if we don’t sign him then there’s no Plan A or Plan B!!!!

 

[Inch Hearts]

8 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

A lot of people moaning no point in signing Naisy if there is no Plan B for when he’s injured 

if we don’t sign him then there’s no Plan A or Plan B!!!!

 

 

We need both.  It shouldn’t be that hard to work out. 

[Victorian]

I'll no be happy unless we have a clear plan C in case plan A and plan B both go arse over tit.    Plan D anaw.    Plan C and plan D anaw or GTF.    Shambles.    Let's organise a boycott.

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Definition: to arouse the curiosity

 

What is your idea of a Plan B you think he should have had/followed?

Apart from having like-for-like replacements (which we cannot afford) ready to put in, what could he have done during our worst injury spell?

Who do you imagine we should have had on our books who would have easily slotted in for Naisy?  Oh, and how much would he have cost?

Intrigued you say.....!!

[The White Cockade]

1 hour ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

We need both.  It shouldn’t be that hard to work out. 

obviously

but some people are saying no point signing Naismith without a plan b

i'd rather have a plan a with him than have nothing at all

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

Intrigued you say.....!!

Aye.  Running away with your tail between your legs?

Well done, lad.

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Aye.  Running away with your tail between your legs?

Well done, lad.

Tedious and intrigued...??

NOW GO AWAY...............!!

[Mr Sifter]

Mods ffs close this monstrosity ??

[1971fozzy]

7 hours ago, busby1985 said:

Square pegs in round holes, pretty much sums up our approach to coping with the injury crisis. You have to be mental to think that injuries haven’t hindered our season, you’d also be pretty mental not to see that we haven’t handled the injury crisis very well. Rushing players back, playing players with injuries (Uche, Haring, morrison), side changing every week, shape changing twice a game sometimes, all of this combined have resulted in what we’ve seen. Let’s stop going round and round in circles, it’s boring. 

 

Naismith would’ve challenged for player of the year if he’d stayed fit. Amazing business to get him here permanent. 

 

Great post.

without a doubt he would have been nominated. Getting him permanent is one hell of a signing and credit to Levein for obviously being a part of that (see I’m not all anti Levein)

Edited May 15, 2019 by 1971fozzy

[Portable Badger]

6 minutes ago, Mr Sifter said:

Mods ffs close this monstrosity ??

That's an 'Intriguing' proposition ...

[Kiwidoug]

Doubt if Trump could build as big a wall as Hearts wall of silence.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Well, I beg to differ especially since we've wasted transfer fees on two duds in Clare and Wighton.

 

And I count Mulraney as one of the success stories.

 

I do as well. Clare is far from a dud for me and Wighton was always signed for next season. This whole thing of writing off young players after a few games is getting pretty tiresome.

[Inch Hearts]

35 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I do as well. Clare is far from a dud for me and Wighton was always signed for next season. This whole thing of writing off young players after a few games is getting pretty tiresome.

 

Clare I’ll give you Wighton is dugmeat. He’s like a shiter version of that boy we signed from QoS to solve our goal scoring issues. 

[Bazzas right boot]

 

This thread

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Doubt if Trump could build as big a wall as Hearts wall of silence.

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, Section Q said:

Tedious and intrigued...??

NOW GO AWAY...............!!

 

Oh dear.  No answer with supposed Plan B.

Starts to get nasty.

The one thing I find tedious is people like you who are unable to substantiate the points they try to make.

You must have heard someone else talk about a Plan B and thought "That sounds good"

[Portable Badger]

40 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

This thread

 

 

Too big 'a Teeth for my liking but excellent attempt to divert us away from the two Lovebirds Al & Q !!!

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Oh dear.  No answer with supposed Plan B.

Starts to get nasty.

The one thing I find tedious is people like you who are unable to substantiate the points they try to make.

You must have heard someone else talk about a Plan B and thought "That sounds good"

?

[FarmerTweedy]

On 14/05/2019 at 20:23, DH1986 said:

We announced the signing of Olly Lee in May last year.....he wasn’t officially out of contract at that time.

 

 

Olly Lee had probably signed a pre-contract agreement when we announced he'd signed. Naismith has stated publicly that he hasn't signed anything yet, which is probably why we haven't made any announcement about him having signed! 

[jr ewing]

Faith healing may help. 

[FarmerTweedy]

16 hours ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Farmers are also known for not having much between the ears. It's all opinions and I think he is a decent player. If he was such a top player he would be taking good money from a Championship club.  He is certainly a bonus for us but if we don't get quality around him next season will be more of the same guff.

Well played sir, a fine riposte!  I'm not actually a farmer though, I just bear an uncanny resemblance to the character from Chicken Run!

 

You're certainly correct that it's all opinions, but in the context of Scottish football, Steven Naismith is still very much a seriously top drawer player. Outwith celtic, there's probably a handful of players at most in Scotland that are better than him. He's almost certainly not EPL quality any more, and would probably not be in great demand from top English Championship clubs looking for promotion either these days, but I think it's highly likely he'd be able to get a contract at a middling Championship club without too much trouble that would earn him considerably more money than he'll make at Hearts. He's been clear for quite a long time though that his family have wanted to resettle back in Scotland for their kids' schooling, and also that in a personal sense for him, his priority was to actually enjoy his football, not maximise his earnings. That's good news for us, because if he was looking for the most lucrative contract he could get to round off his career, we wouldn't ever have had a snowball's chance in hell of seeing him pull on a Hearts shirt.

 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

6 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Doubt if Trump could build as big a wall as Hearts wall of silence.

WTF are you talking about? 

[Dunks]

 v 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

?

R. Soale

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, FarmerTweedy said:

WTF are you talking about? 

Hearts wall of silence.  No statements on anything.  ST sales etc.  Attrocious performances.

 

Sorry for being cryptic.