How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?

[Jim Weir]

12 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Scotland did not vote to remain.  It was a UK referendum and only the halfwits in the SNP try to convince themselves otherwise.

 

As others have said, Scotland DID vote to remain in the union.  By asking for another referendum on Independence the question would have to be asked if in the improbable scenario that the SNP won the next referendum can the UK government call another referendum to reverse the result?  An Independence Referendum was supposed to be once in a generation, remember?

 

Absolutely correct. 

[Sarah O]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Common sense. 

So if they (Westminster) do something abhorrent it's common sense to stand by them?

 

Right you are then. 

[Don Dan]

Just now, Sarah O said:

So if they (Westminster) do something abhorrent it's common sense to stand by them?

 

Right you are then. 

 

So if in your eyes Westminster did something abhorrent how do the English voters deal with it?

[Jim Weir]

57 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Scotland voted to REMAIN in the EU, that should never be underestimated. 

 

The Tories will be a deciding factor in the YES vote swing with their fecked up BREXIT loony tunes cartoon saga.

What was the question on your ballot paper? Should Scotland remain in the EU? 

 

We voted as United Kingdom citizens regardless of what part of the UK anyone was located. Of course there will be regional variances 

 

This sudden desire of Sturgeon to be staunchly European isn't fooling anyone. She'd attach herself to any cause in her quest for ideological utopia. 

 

The answer is Independence in her eyes regardless of the question 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

This juxtaposition of headline articles fro earlier this month tells us all we need to know about SNP priorities. It’s all about independence and screw everything else. 

 

Actually this tells us a lot more especially if you read the links. Scotland outperforms England in most areas with England experiencing a dramatic drop in the waiting time indicators whilst the mortality rate in Scotland has dropped by about 10%. 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Is that the independence supporting herald who conducted that survey?!

 

I cannot believe the majority of people in Scotland have any appetite for an independence campaign following all this Brexit turmoil.  I don’t like Sturgeon but will concede she is a canny politician.  On this one though she has misjudged the mood of the majority of the nation. 

 

Do you honestly believe that the Herald is an independence supporting paper? Have you ever read it?

 

 

[jake]

9 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Actually this tells us a lot more especially if you read the links. Scotland outperforms England in most areas with England experiencing a dramatic drop in the waiting time indicators whilst the mortality rate in Scotland has dropped by about 10%. 

Good post.

 

 

 

 

[Sarah O]

50 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

So if in your eyes Westminster did something abhorrent how do the English voters deal with it?

Unfortunately for them they don't have the luxury of an out.

[coconut doug]

25 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Actually this tells us a lot more especially if you read the links. Scotland outperforms England in most areas with England experiencing a dramatic drop in the waiting time indicators whilst the mortality rate in Scotland has dropped by about 10%. 

https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/11/10/as-nhs-england-cancer-treatment-wait-statistics-set-to-be-worst-on-record-nhs-scotlands-success-is-ignored/

 

Forgot the link.

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Unfortunately for them they don't have the luxury of an out.

 

Yes they do they just vote the abhorrents out just like any other democratic country who follow the democratic will of the people. 

[Thunderstruck]

51 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Actually this tells us a lot more especially if you read the links. Scotland outperforms England in most areas with England experiencing a dramatic drop in the waiting time indicators whilst the mortality rate in Scotland has dropped by about 10%. 

 

FFS, even the SNP say they have to do better. They set reasonably achievable standards and, even so, fail to meet them. 

 

But, as ever, you justify p**s poor performance by saying someone else is worse. I’ll bet that makes those waiting for treatment feel better. 

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

29 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

FFS, even the SNP say they have to do better. They set reasonably achievable standards and, even so, fail to meet them. 

 

But, as ever, you justify p**s poor performance by saying someone else is worse. I’ll bet that makes those waiting for treatment feel better. 

 

 

I’m sure it doesnt make them feel any better but other than going private, where else on these islands would they get a faster/better health service?

The answer is nowhere. Scotland is currently the best by any measurable way.   

Is it perfect? Hell no but lets talk it down because it’s Scotland we are talking about here and hey, we have a cringe to maintain...

 

Maybe May & her Westminster lot could do a better job???

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

FFS, even the SNP say they have to do better. They set reasonably achievable standards and, even so, fail to meet them. 

 

But, as ever, you justify p**s poor performance by saying someone else is worse. I’ll bet that makes those waiting for treatment feel better. 

 

 

You were screaming about  "SNP incompetence and monomaniacal focus on independence.". The link shows that the 95%, 31 day treatment target has been exceeded and that the mortality rate in Scotland from cancer has dropped. That stands on its own as a decent performance and cannot be called "piss poor" by any fair minded person.

 

  The reason for comparing with England is because you allege that Scotland's position is "piss poor" because of thier "monomaniacal focus on independence" and misplaced "priorities". Clearly if Scotland's figures are significantly better than those for England (and they are) then your assertion is nonsense.

 

It is also valid to compare Scotland with England as many of us feel we would do better as an independent country and these statistics show that we could.

 

Of course the SNP want to do better they have high standards for Scotland in this area despite being in charge of the only country in the U.K. to meet the targets. I can only imagine the outrage if percentage receiving treatment within the 31 day period was 77% as it is in England. That's O.K. though because we have a Tory government and we all know they are the model for efficiency and are white and British and wrapped in a union flag. 

 

The !0% drop in the mortality rate also means that the treatment offered is working and that those receiving it are better off i.e. they are still alive.

[Roxy Hearts]

Yes always yes. Scotland needs it. 

[Thunderstruck]

50 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I’m sure it doesnt make them feel any better but other than going private, where else on these islands would they get a faster/better health service?

The answer is nowhere. Scotland is currently the best by any measurable way.   

Is it perfect? Hell no but lets talk it down because it’s Scotland we are talking about here and hey, we have a cringe to maintain...

 

Maybe May & her Westminster lot could do a better job???

 

Is Scotland’s NHS good enough? No. 

 

Whose job is it to make it better? The Scottish Government. 

 

Are they achieving their own aim? No.

 

Everything else is diversion and please remember that this is just one of the cornerstone public services. Education, transport, local government are all failing to prosper and have been for close on 12 years (the Tories have only been in power for nearly 9 of those years).

 

Might this failure have anything to do with the SNP diverting some 10% of funding for NHS away from core services (per Audit Scotland). I’ll let you think about that and see if you can conjure up some way to blame someone else. 

 

 

 

 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Is Scotland’s NHS good enough? No. 

 

Whose job is it to make it better? The Scottish Government. 

 

Are they achieving their own aim? No.

 

Everything else is diversion and please remember that this is just one of the cornerstone public services. Education, transport, local government are all failing to prosper and have been for close on 12 years (the Tories have only been in power for nearly 9 of those years).

 

Might this failure have anything to do with the SNP diverting some 10% of funding for NHS away from core services (per Audit Scotland). I’ll let you think about that and see if you can conjure up some way to blame someone else. 

 

 

 

 

Not much point in using performance indicators when you can have the sober, measured and objective analysis of a Tory loyalist.

 

You should read more carefully, we are not blaming anybody because the cancer figures to which you originally referred are good and targets have been met.

 

Obviously more money should be reflected in better performance and vv so the money originally diverted from the Health Service for other priorities but now largely restored might be part of the reason the figures are so good. In particular the money being spent on more nurses and doctors. When you have control over your spending you can divert it to where it can be best used. That might be the reason Scottish public service performance figures routinely outperform the English ones.

 

Other public services face challenges too but are generally improving or holding up to the ravages of austerity better than they are down south.  I know you don't believe in austerity btw preferring the notion that the SNP have secreted the resources away into some war chest iirc.

 

Performance figures are not a diversion. They are the means by which we measure the effectiveness of our public services. They also help us to set priorities. They can be measured in absolute terms or by comparison. They are not perfect but they are the best we have.

 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

So if in your eyes Westminster did something abhorrent how do the English voters deal with it?

They vote them out, us??? Well you know the rest. Maybe you should listen to yourself.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Jim Weir said:

What was the question on your ballot paper? Should Scotland remain in the EU? 

 

We voted as United Kingdom citizens regardless of what part of the UK anyone was located. Of course there will be regional variances 

 

This sudden desire of Sturgeon to be staunchly European isn't fooling anyone. She'd attach herself to any cause in her quest for ideological utopia. 

 

The answer is Independence in her eyes regardless of the question 

The Scottish electorate were guaranteed EU citizenship if they voted no. 200,000 EU citizens voted no, I'd say  at least 400,000 Scots and rUK citizens were persuaded to vote no on this guarantee. So let's ask again. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by ri Alban

[Pans Jambo]

Indyref II...

 

Bring it on. 

[Thunderstruck]

6 hours ago, coconut doug said:

Not much point in using performance indicators when you can have the sober, measured and objective analysis of a Tory loyalist.

 

You should read more carefully, we are not blaming anybody because the cancer figures to which you originally referred are good and targets have been met.

 

Obviously more money should be reflected in better performance and vv so the money originally diverted from the Health Service for other priorities but now largely restored might be part of the reason the figures are so good. In particular the money being spent on more nurses and doctors. When you have control over your spending you can divert it to where it can be best used. That might be the reason Scottish public service performance figures routinely outperform the English ones.

 

Other public services face challenges too but are generally improving or holding up to the ravages of austerity better than they are down south.  I know you don't believe in austerity btw preferring the notion that the SNP have secreted the resources away into some war chest iirc.

 

Performance figures are not a diversion. They are the means by which we measure the effectiveness of our public services. They also help us to set priorities. They can be measured in absolute terms or by comparison. They are not perfect but they are the best we have.

 

 

You should try the sober, measured and objective analysis of those that use and work in Scotland’s NHS. That it works at all is a testament to those that work there who go ‘above and beyond’. 

 

At least you now accept that the front-line NHS in Scotland was starved of funds by the SNP government, not Westminster, the SNP. However, you glibly dismiss the fact be saying it has been restored. Has it? Has the damage been repaired? Don’t you think that such diversion of funds was, at best, very poor judgement and, more likely, criminal given the impact on lives. 

 

Last word on this matter comes from the Nursing Times - 

 

‘The annual review of the health service by the Auditor General for Scotland found performance continued to decline in 2017-18, with the health service achieving just one out of eight key national targets.’

 

You said, ‘I know you don’t believe in austerity.’ 

 

Quite the contrary - I believe that the SNP introduced austerity in Scotland 3 years before the Tories got to power. The SNP badly miscalculated the cost of their headline manifesto and instead of replacing Council Tax they introduced their Freeze. It has been downhill all the way since then. 

 

Anyhow, how is the Prospectus coming along? You know, your party’s plan for how an independent Scotland will survive.

 

I know that planning for such is anathema to many of the Nats in this forum (who seem to fly into a rage at the mere mention) but don’t you think that having the courtesy to tell the people about the anticipated outcome of the referendum would be an important first step - a step to be taken before launching any timetable? After all, the lack of any identification of the post-Brexit landscape has gone down a storm, hasn’t it. 

[Boris]

If there is another indy ref I'll vote Yes again, but I don't think Yes will win tbh.  Still, you have to be in it to win it!

[Justin Z]

28 minutes ago, Boris said:

If there is another indy ref I'll vote Yes again, but I don't think Yes will win tbh.  Still, you have to be in it to win it!

 

Imagine the original Brexit referendum had gone off on time, before the Scottish Independence referendum. What a different scenario might be playing out today.

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Imagine the original Brexit referendum had gone off on time, before the Scottish Independence referendum. What a different scenario might be playing out today.

 

Very possibly!  

[Mysterion]

36 minutes ago, Boris said:

If there is another indy ref I'll vote Yes again, but I don't think Yes will win tbh.  Still, you have to be in it to win it!

 

Until people see a clear financial benefit of Indie the result will be the same. I don't think leaving Europe due to Westminster changes that since we'll be worse off generally. The "it would be even worse" trump card will be played by Unionists to great effect. 

 

There is also a problem with credibility given the SNP have been facing a number of issues in government over the last 2-3yrs and have been battered from pillar to post. 

 

 

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Until people see a clear financial benefit of Indie the result will be the same. I don't think leaving Europe due to Westminster changes that since we'll be worse off generally. The "it would be even worse" trump card will be played by Unionists to great effect. 

 

There is also a problem with credibility given the SNP have been facing a number of issues in government over the last 2-3yrs and have been battered from pillar to post. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much traction that would have, given it was the arch unionists who have put us in the position!  I would hope more people were like 

but who knows.

[jack D and coke]

I’d vote Yes again but not if they try to sell us the £ tied to the BOE. Utter lunacy.

We should maybe use the tears from unionists as currency cos there will be absolutely trillions of them should Yes win. I’d almost like a yes just to see the behaviour of them tbh.  It would be very, very nasty and vindictive I have no doubt about that.  

Scotland would do well though I have no doubt. 

[Jim Weir]

Peak Nat has passed thankfully. Nippy is in trouble and very likely to end up with shit on her face. The Salmond debacle very much remains the elephant in the room 

 

She is trying to placate the radical in her party who want Independence irrespective of the devastation it would cause. These people are fanatics 

 

Brexit is a complete cluster****.  There is no way on the back of such a constitutional catastrophe that sufficient numbers are going to vote Yes. 

 

The SNP opportunism around Brexit is sickening. Overtly European suddenly in order to try and leverage the ideological goal. They are duplicitous in the extreme. They are ostensibly anti English 

 

She should focus on trying to make the best use of devolved powers. Their record in Government is atrocious because the simple matter is that SNP will always put Independence first and matters such as Health, Education, Policing amongst other fundamental parts of society wellbeing will fall a long way behind 

[Mysterion]

28 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I'm not sure how much traction that would have, given it was the arch unionists who have put us in the position!  

 

I'm really not convinced that there are enough people who voted Remain but voted No to Indie that would change their mind.

 

I base that on the view of two tribes of people who voted No: 

1. There are those who voted no because they felt the economy/standard of living would be hammered

2. People who absolutely despise the SNP. 

 

The SNP could have incredible success governing Scotland and month before an Indie ref 2 vote announce they'd had backed a company that has made a world changing scientific discovery that would create billions for decades (or substitute that for Oil) and they would still say No.

 

I am open minded about Indie, i lean more positively towards it but i do see a lot of people who are absolutely close minded to the idea due to their toxic outlook on the SNP.

[Boris]

20 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'm really not convinced that there are enough people who voted Remain but voted No to Indie that would change their mind.

 

I base that on the view of two tribes of people who voted No: 

1. There are those who voted no because they felt the economy/standard of living would be hammered

2. People who absolutely despise the SNP. 

 

The SNP could have incredible success governing Scotland and month before an Indie ref 2 vote announce they'd had backed a company that has made a world changing scientific discovery that would create billions for decades (or substitute that for Oil) and they would still say No.

 

I am open minded about Indie, i lean more positively towards it but i do see a lot of people who are absolutely close minded to the idea due to their toxic outlook on the SNP.

 

I guess it's about convincing those in 1 above.  Post Brexit, who knows?

[Ray Gin]

30 minutes ago, Jim Weir said:

Brexit is a complete cluster****.  There is no way on the back of such a constitutional catastrophe that sufficient numbers are going to vote Yes. 

 

A complete cluster**** dropped on us because we will always suffer whatever England votes for.

 

 

[coconut doug]

26 minutes ago, Jim Weir said:

Peak Nat has passed thankfully. Nippy is in trouble and very likely to end up with shit on her face. The Salmond debacle very much remains the elephant in the room 

 

She is trying to placate the radical in her party who want Independence irrespective of the devastation it would cause. These people are fanatics 

 

Brexit is a complete cluster****.  There is no way on the back of such a constitutional catastrophe that sufficient numbers are going to vote Yes. 

 

The SNP opportunism around Brexit is sickening. Overtly European suddenly in order to try and leverage the ideological goal. They are duplicitous in the extreme. They are ostensibly anti English 

 

She should focus on trying to make the best use of devolved powers. Their record in Government is atrocious because the simple matter is that SNP will always put Independence first and matters such as Health, Education, Policing amongst other fundamental parts of society wellbeing will fall a long way behind 

I thought the SNP had been in favour of EU membership for many years. Are you telling us that their pro EU attitude is recent and a response to Brexit? Can you tell us when the policy changed?

 

Can you tell us which specific areas of Health , Education and policing are suffering as a result of the SNP's focus on independence?

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

36 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'm really not convinced that there are enough people who voted Remain but voted No to Indie that would change their mind.

 

I base that on the view of two tribes of people who voted No: 

1. There are those who voted no because they felt the economy/standard of living would be hammered

2. People who absolutely despise the SNP. 

 

The SNP could have incredible success governing Scotland and month before an Indie ref 2 vote announce they'd had backed a company that has made a world changing scientific discovery that would create billions for decades (or substitute that for Oil) and they would still say No.

 

I am open minded about Indie, i lean more positively towards it but i do see a lot of people who are absolutely close minded to the idea due to their toxic outlook on the SNP.

Good post mate. I tend to agree with all of that. 

I’d like indyref 2 to be all or nothing tbh. 

Yes and we go independent or No and we close the Scottish Parliament and accept we’re North Britain and take yir medicine for evermore what ever happens. 

I’ve no doubt that would make people think about it a lot more. This halfway house riles unionists who believe we should just be quiet. They cringe when they hear a Scottish voice at Westminster they want it silenced. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by jack D and coke

[stevie]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

A complete cluster**** dropped on us because we will always suffer whatever England votes for.

 

 

 

England didn't vote No in Indyref,Scotland did!Too much energy being wasted trying to shoehorn in another Indyref when there are more important issues needing addressed.The whole Yes-No debate should have been put to bed after the country voted No last time.

[Jim Weir]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

I thought the SNP had been in favour of EU membership for many years. Are you telling us that their pro EU attitude is recent and a response to Brexit? Can you tell us when the policy changed?

 

Can you tell us which specific areas of Health , Education and policing are suffering as a result of the SNP's focus on independence?

 

 

 

Do you think SNP have performed well on devolved matters? 

 

Presumably you feel their fixation on Independence hasn't been to the detriment of other crucial aspects within the economic and social landscape in Scotland? 

 

Let's turn our backs on the largest trading partner we have and be part of an EU who have behaved in an interesting manner towards the UK over the past 2 years. 

 

It's purely opportunism and I suspect you know that full well. They'll attach themselves to whatever cause or subject imaginable in order to pursue Independence objective. 

 

What we are experiencing in Scotland is the dire consequences of a protest party obtaining power 

 

You cannot reason with nationalism 

[Boris]

Just now, stevie said:

 

England didn't vote No in Indyref,Scotland did!Too much energy being wasted trying to shoehorn in another Indyref when there are more important issues needing addressed.The whole Yes-No debate should have been put to bed after the country voted No last time.

 

Such as?

[Jim Weir]

1 minute ago, stevie said:

 

England didn't vote No in Indyref,Scotland did!Too much energy being wasted trying to shoehorn in another Indyref when there are more important issues needing addressed.The whole Yes-No debate should have been put to bed after the country voted No last time.

Correct. But Nationalists won't accept it. Hold indyref 2 and if they lose, they'll pursue Indyref3 in perpetuity 

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, stevie said:

 

England didn't vote No in Indyref,Scotland did!Too much energy being wasted trying to shoehorn in another Indyref when there are more important issues needing addressed.The whole Yes-No debate should have been put to bed after the country voted No last time.

 

Two of the major campaign points for 'no' were promises that we'd be getting 'Devo-Max' (bull****) and that it would guarantee that we kept our place in the EU (also bull****). Why should voters be held to their vote forever when the politicians don't stick to their pledges?

 

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Two of the major campaign points for 'no' were promises that we'd be getting 'Devo-Max' (bull****) and that it would guarantee that we kept our place in the EU (also bull****). Why should voters be held to their vote forever when the politicians don't stick to their pledges?

 

Exactly. Why some people utterly refuse to accept circumstances have changed and we were lied to is bizarre. 

Nobody wants constant referendums but circumstances have shifted quite measurably. Denying that makes you sound like an absolute idiot. 

[coconut doug]

19 minutes ago, Jim Weir said:

Do you think SNP have performed well on devolved matters?

 

Generally Yes and infinitely better than Labour could have achieved. Look at their people, IMO they are the least talented and worst informed group i have seen. Theirs is a grievance based policy, always wanting to spend more money to improve services but having no idea how to do it. They also voted with the Tories for the most regressive budget i can remember. The Tories have nothing to offer except tax cuts for the rich. Private schools and Health is their aspiration.

 

Presumably you feel their fixation on Independence hasn't been to the detriment of other crucial aspects within the economic and social landscape in Scotland?

 

I don't believe their has been a fixation on indy. Many aspects of our society as defined by performance indicators are doing better than RUK.

 

Let's turn our backs on the largest trading partner we have and be part of an EU who have behaved in an interesting manner towards the UK over the past 2 years.

 

The Eu constantly ask the UK what they want from Brexit when they manage to articulate this the EU might respond favourably. Nobody is turning their backs on trading partners. If Scotland becomes Indy RUK will trade with us on EU terms.We are not turning our backs on Europe as a trading partner now are we?  

 

It's purely opportunism and I suspect you know that full well. They'll attach themselves to whatever cause or subject imaginable in order to pursue Independence objective.

 

I don't know anything of the sort that's why i ask you for evidence to prove your point. 

 

What we are experiencing in Scotland is the dire consequences of a protest party obtaining power 

I ask again, what are these dire consequences?

Quote

 

You cannot reason with nationalism

 

Nation states are the units we organise ourselves in whether it's UK Scotland or whatever. Most people feel some affinity with their own country. What make those of us whi identify as Scots any different.

 

I'd be interested to see you answer some questions.

[stevie]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Such as?

 

Care for the elderly,more police on the streets,education,GP servicess etc,can't blame the idiots at Westminster for everything.Id abolish free prescriptions and charge anyone not on long term medication that can afford to pay for their meds!We have people being prescribed paracetamol free ffs..If there's another Indyref in 15-20 years then fair enough but we've just had one and since the  referendum vote there's been a fairly toxic atmosphere between increasingly fanatical leavers and remainers.I my view we need some semblance of stability during the current madness,another Indyref just now would be a disaster imho.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by stevie

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, Jim Weir said:

Do you think SNP have performed well on devolved matters? 

 

Presumably you feel their fixation on Independence hasn't been to the detriment of other crucial aspects within the economic and social landscape in Scotland? 

 

Let's turn our backs on the largest trading partner we have and be part of an EU who have behaved in an interesting manner towards the UK over the past 2 years. 

 

It's purely opportunism and I suspect you know that full well. They'll attach themselves to whatever cause or subject imaginable in order to pursue Independence objective. 

 

What we are experiencing in Scotland is the dire consequences of a protest party obtaining power 

 

You cannot reason with nationalism 

Maybe Englands parliment would straighten out the NHS, Education etc. In Scotland like they do in England and Wales?

 

Wait.... Theirs is even worse!

 

you cannot reason with a British, God save the queen, cricket watching, cucumber sandwich, union jack flying nationalist!

 

Very soon will be the time for your lot to buy a house in Corby!

[Boris]

1 hour ago, stevie said:

 

Care for the elderly,more police on the streets,education,GP servicess etc,can't blame the idiots at Westminster for everything.Id abolish free prescriptions and charge anyone not on long term medication that can afford to pay for their meds!We have people being prescribed paracetamol free ffs..If there's another Indyref in 15-20 years then fair enough but we've just had one and since the  referendum vote there's been a fairly toxic atmosphere between increasingly fanatical leavers and remainers.I my view we need some semblance of stability during the current madness,another Indyref just now would be a disaster imho.

 

 

Fair enough, but in general I don't think the Scottish Government has really done that badly. 

 

Brexit is a fiasco, I'll agree with you on that, and you may be correct that we need that sorted first, so that we can really experience how bad it will be (IMO) but not sure that is stability in itself.

[Brighton Jambo]

5 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'm really not convinced that there are enough people who voted Remain but voted No to Indie that would change their mind.

 

I base that on the view of two tribes of people who voted No: 

1. There are those who voted no because they felt the economy/standard of living would be hammered

2. People who absolutely despise the SNP. 

 

The SNP could have incredible success governing Scotland and month before an Indie ref 2 vote announce they'd had backed a company that has made a world changing scientific discovery that would create billions for decades (or substitute that for Oil) and they would still say No.

 

I am open minded about Indie, i lean more positively towards it but i do see a lot of people who are absolutely close minded to the idea due to their toxic outlook on the SNP.

Good post.  The other factor is there will be people who voted Yes last time and also voted Leave.  Some of these would swap their vote to No as they wouldn’t want back into the EU.  

[maroonlegions]

55 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Good post.  The other factor is there will be people who voted Yes last time and also voted Leave.  Some of these would swap their vote to No as they wouldn’t want back into the EU.  

Do you have the stats, numbers % for those that you say voted yes but also voted to leave the EU and would now vote no to Independence??  What is the % of those that would swap to no??

 

Scotland voted to remain in very large numbers, are we to suggest that the majority of those that voted to remain also voted yes then and would again???

Edited January 18, 2019 by maroonlegions

[luckyBatistuta]

5 hours ago, stevie said:

 

England didn't vote No in Indyref,Scotland did!Too much energy being wasted trying to shoehorn in another Indyref when there are more important issues needing addressed.The whole Yes-No debate should have been put to bed after the country voted No last time.

 

5 hours ago, Jim Weir said:

Correct. But Nationalists won't accept it. Hold indyref 2 and if they lose, they'll pursue Indyref3 in perpetuity 

 

Not having a dig, but do either of you think we should have another referendum on Brexit. Lost count of how many people I’ve heard say that there shouldn’t be another Indy ref, as it’s already been voted on and we should all accept the outcome, yet they then turn around two minutes later and say they want another vote on Brexit and they don’t want to accept the outcome.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Good post.  The other factor is there will be people who voted Yes last time and also voted Leave.  Some of these would swap their vote to No as they wouldn’t want back into the EU.  

There’s also the chance a few snp voters voted leave to try trigger another indyref 2.

[Jim Weir]

5 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

 

Not having a dig, but do either of you think we should have another referendum on Brexit. Lost count of how many people I’ve heard say that there shouldn’t be another Indy ref, as it’s already been voted on and we should all accept the outcome, yet they then turn around two minutes later and say they want another vote on Brexit and they don’t want to accept the outcome.

 

 

Not for me. I'm not a fan of referendums, largely because there are an inordinate amount of stupid people out there who should be seen and not heard 

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, Jim Weir said:

Not for me. I'm not a fan of referendums, largely because there are an inordinate amount of stupid people out there who should be seen and not heard 

But SNP voters are entitled to a vote?

[luckyBatistuta]

21 minutes ago, Jim Weir said:

Not for me. I'm not a fan of referendums, largely because there are an inordinate amount of stupid people out there who should be seen and not heard 

 

These same stupid people you speak of, also vote on who runs the country. Whether we like it or not, they are entitled to an opinion/vote the same as everyone. How would you decide how the country is able to gain independence, other than giving the people who live their the choice to decide if that is their wish?  

Edited January 18, 2019 by luckyBatistuta

[Brighton Jambo]

56 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Do you have the stats, numbers % for those that you say voted yes but also voted to leave the EU and would now vote no to Independence??  What is the % of those that would swap to no??

 

Scotland voted to remain in very large numbers, are we to suggest that the majority of those that voted to remain also voted yes then and would again???

If you read the Previous posts you would see that what people are saying is some people who voted no would change their vote to yes due to Brexit and vice versa.  The problem for the SNP is no one does know exactly what impact these changes to voting intentions could have.  Polls currently say it hasn’t made much difference overall but another referendum is a heck of a gamble given the amount of unknowns.  Lose another referendum and independence is off the table for 20 years minimum.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by Brighton Jambo